26 replies to this topic

[fryguy]

I made a big batch of mashed potatoes tonight and had a ton left over after dinner. Immediately, I'm thinking "What in hell am I gonna do with 2# of mashed potatoes?"

Gnocchi comes to mind. But I've never made gnocchi before. Can I used leftover mashed (butter & cream)?

Thanks in advance.

[Jinmyo]

Well, one can make gnocchi out of ricotta so why not?

[Redsugar]

A cook can prepare gnocchi from various main ingredients:

The classic Roman version is Gnocchi alla Romana (baked semolina), basically enriched with butter, Parmesan, and eggs. The chilled polenta is cut into shapes, dotted with fat, sprinkled with cheese, and baked in a moderately hot oven. A quite similar dish is indigenous to the northern regions of Lombardy & Veneto, where polenta has been a traditional staple. Classically, the latter interpretation of these cornmeal dumplings may be served with a mushroom-&-prosciutto sauce.

Gnocchi maloreddus are made from Parmesan and topped with a tomato sauce.

Gnocchi di papate, the potato dumplings, are often shaped into small balls and served, at times, with a well-seasoned meat sauce, known as Ragù alla Romagnola; or Affumicato, smoked fish (such as sturgeon); or Pesce, tuna sauce.

A worthy first candidate for your pot of mashed taters is Gnochetti all Piemontese – a mouthwatering (and assuredly addictive recipe – combines the comforting potato gnocchi with the exquisite flavor of Fontina cheese:

2 lbs. potatoes, peeled & boiled well in salted water; best to push them through a ricer, whipping to keep them dry & fluffy;

Add about 2 cups sifted flour and a good pinch of salt to make a dough by working the mixture with the best tools in your kitchen, you own hands; roll up & shape into 1- by 1½-inch pieces logs (for sizing, I use the mental image of a walnut shell);

Press each shape against tines of a fork so that the back is ridged and the front has a hollow indentation, like a little shell. (The practical reason for this shaping, according to Claudia Rosen in her Good Food of Italy, is “so that they hold the dressing better.” – p. 92). Place them on a floured board, covering with a cloth; refrigerate the gnocchi if making them much in advance;

Bring a large pan of salted water to the boil and poach the gnocchi, a few at a time, for about 2 minutes.

Spoon a layer of gnocchi into a gratin dish, cover with thin slices of Fontina (imported, not Fontinella, please!), sprinkling with melted clarified butter (or duck fat?). Repeat layering until all ingredients are used, ending with cheese. Bake in moderate oven until cheese is melted. Serve pronto!

Edited by Redsugar, 08 November 2004 - 06:19 PM.

[Bond Girl]

If you have the Times magazine from this past sunday, there is a basic gnocchi recipe there.

[slkinsey]

I've never made gnocchi with leftover mashed potatoes. Have to think you'd have a very hard time keeping them appropriately light. Personally, I'd be more likely to save them for shepherd's pie or something like that.

[Kevin72]

Yeah, I'd skip making gnocchi. You've already over-developed the gluten by mashing them to that extent and they would be gummy and never come together. You could make fritters out of them though by mixing in a couple eggs, cheese, maybe ham, coat them in bread crumbs, and fry them.

[russ parsons]

i'd be really skeptical. the butter and cream would be the problem. gnocchi (potato gnocchi anyway) are made by developing hte gluten in the potato starch (the word gnocchi comes from teh same latin root as the word "knead"). any decent amount of fat would interfere with the development of said gluten.

[slkinsey]

i'd be really skeptical. the butter and cream would be the problem. gnocchi (potato gnocchi anyway) are made by developing hte gluten in the potato starch (the word gnocchi comes from teh same latin root as the word "knead"). any decent amount of fat would interfere with the development of said gluten.

This is very odd. I've never heard that one wants to develop the gluten when making gnocchi. In fact, I have always proceeded with exactly the opposite assumption: that one should work the dough as little as possible in order to avoid developing the gluten.

I've also always heard that the word gnocco, which most sources seem to agree is of relatively recent, late 19th century provenance -- can probably be traced back to Middle High German, perhaps knöchel (knuckle), and comes most directly from the Italian (Veneziano dialect?) word nocchio meaning "a knot in wood."

[russ parsons]

[This is very odd.  I've never heard that one wants to develop the gluten when making gnocchi.  In fact, I have always proceeded with exactly the opposite assumption: that one should work the dough as little as possible in order to avoid developing the gluten.

I've also always heard that the word gnocco, which most sources seem to agree is of relatively recent, late 19th century provenance -- can probably be traced back to Middle High German, perhaps knöchel (knuckle), and comes most directly from the Italian (Veneziano dialect?) word nocchio meaning "a knot in wood."

it's a matter of degree. if you overwork the dough, the gnocchi will be tough and heavy, certainly. but if you don't develop any gluten at all, what is to hold the gnoccho together? (oh sure, you could cheat and add egg ...)

and i don't have an oed in front of me, but i believe knead and knuckle both come from the same root.

[jschyun]

Yeah, I'd skip making gnocchi.  You've already over-developed the gluten by mashing them to that extent and they would be gummy and never come together.  You could make fritters out of them though by mixing in a couple eggs, cheese, maybe ham, coat them in bread crumbs, and fry them.

But potatoes don't have gluten. gluten is the protein found in cereal grains like wheat, barley and oats, among others. the reason why you get gummy potatoes if you overbeat them and break the cell walls, releasing starch that gums up the works. I think I read this in cooks illustrated. but if you properly mashed them, I would think this is not a problem but I could be wrong.

Heck, if you have leftover mashed, why not try it? It's cheap right?

[phifly04]

how about some potato pancakes?great accompaniment to many meals and lends itself well to a number of varied cooking styles.Just a thought\
Dave s

[Kevin72]

But potatoes don't have gluten.  gluten is the protein found in cereal grains like wheat, barley and oats, among others.  the reason why you get gummy potatoes if you overbeat them and break the cell walls, releasing starch that gums up the works.  I think I read this in cooks illustrated.  but if you properly mashed them, I would think this is not a problem but I could be wrong. 

Heck, if you have leftover mashed, why not try it?  It's cheap right?

You've already processed them far past the point you need to for gnocchi. Plus you've incorporated I'd imagine some form of liquid into them, correct? So now you need to compensate for that, which means extra flour, which means leaden gnocchi.

[Kevin72]

how about some potato pancakes?great accompaniment to many meals and lends itself well to a number of varied cooking styles.Just a thought\
                                            Dave s

Yes, that would work out much better.

[slkinsey]

it's a matter of degree. if you overwork the dough, the gnocchi will be tough and heavy, certainly. but if you don't develop any gluten at all, what is to hold the gnoccho together? (oh sure, you could cheat and add egg ...)

If I am not mistaken, there is a certain amount of interlinkage that happens automatically when water and gluten are mixed. And, needless to say, there is a certain amount of gluten development that happens as the ingredients are incorporated and as the dough is rolled out, etc. I've never found that it wanted any more working than that. Certainly not ultra-minimal as one might do with a pastry dough, but not really anything I would call "kneading."

and i don't have an oed in front of me, but i believe knead and knuckle both come from the same root.

Hmm... Maybe, although I am a little dubious about infusing modern-day words with meanings according to their ancient origins.

[albiston]

[This is very odd.  I've never heard that one wants to develop the gluten when making gnocchi.  In fact, I have always proceeded with exactly the opposite assumption: that one should work the dough as little as possible in order to avoid developing the gluten.

I've also always heard that the word gnocco, which most sources seem to agree is of relatively recent, late 19th century provenance -- can probably be traced back to Middle High German, perhaps knöchel (knuckle), and comes most directly from the Italian (Veneziano dialect?) word nocchio meaning "a knot in wood."

it's a matter of degree. if you overwork the dough, the gnocchi will be tough and heavy, certainly. but if you don't develop any gluten at all, what is to hold the gnoccho together? (oh sure, you could cheat and add egg ...)

and i don't have an oed in front of me, but i believe knead and knuckle both come from the same root.

I think Russ is right, although I'd imagine the gluten comes from the flour added to the gnocchi dough. You want something to keep those starch granules together. The butter and cream, apart inhibiting gluten development, might have already added too much humidity to the potatoes for the gnocchi to come out right.

When I have left over mash potatoes I often prepare some duchesse potatoes, by adding two yolks to every pound of potatoes, and maybe a bit of cream if the mash is too stiff. They freeze nicely once baked, so you can save them for later.

[Carrot Top]

In agreement with the idea that leftover mashed potatoes won't be the best thing to try gnocchi with...particularly for a first effort.

Imagine...the difference between fresh hot mashed potatoes (which even to hold briefly for any quality at all must be topped off with milk and maintained at a certain temperature) and mashed potatoes which have sat in the fridge.

They flatten and become heavy. Dense. And even the flavor changes slightly.

There really are so many other great things you can make from them...as others have mentioned, a sort of fritter or a duchesse or a pancake or mixed with baccala or even regular poached cod to make a lovely fresh fish cake....

Gnocchi are lovely things....but there is some sort of texture thing that is integral to gnocchi that I do not believe you will get from using potatoes, pre-cooked, as the base for them.

Edited by Carrot Top, 08 November 2004 - 02:25 PM.

[eunny jang]

I'm no gnocchi guru, but would like to point out the (perhaps unintentional) pun in the subtitle of this thread. I have been chuckling every time I see it come up in Active Topics

[russ parsons]

But potatoes don't have gluten.  gluten is the protein found in cereal grains like wheat, barley and oats, among others.  the reason why you get gummy potatoes if you overbeat them and break the cell walls, releasing starch that gums up the works. 

damn this not having an editor present! of course that's right. it's even in my damned book. actually, i think there is still some disagreement about what is happening ... could be pectin chains, could be something else.

nonetheless, the presence of fat would interfere with the linkages. and boy, do i love pommes duchesse.

[Carrot Top]

And please do forgive my rather unscientific explanation. Cooking is like sex to me. I can tell you how to do it (hopefully ) well from my own personal experience.

The art and action of cookery should be a visceral, live experience rather than a science class.. but that is just my way of things. Others may live differently.

[russ parsons]

it's a matter of degree. if you overwork the dough, the gnocchi will be tough and heavy, certainly. but if you don't develop any gluten at all, what is to hold the gnoccho together? (oh sure, you could cheat and add egg ...)

If I am not mistaken, there is a certain amount of interlinkage that happens automatically when water and gluten are mixed. And, needless to say, there is a certain amount of gluten development that happens as the ingredients are incorporated and as the dough is rolled out, etc. I've never found that it wanted any more working than that. Certainly not ultra-minimal as one might do with a pastry dough, but not really anything I would call "kneading."

i did a story on making potato gnocchi several years ago and spent a week trying to perfect them. indeed it was the kneading that made the difference (granted, i was determined to make them without eggs ... exigente all the way!). it's a very tricky thing, recognizing when the dough has been kneaded just enough that it will hold together, but not so much that it toughens and becomes leaden. but "knead" it was--forming a dough and pushing/rolling it against the work surface. only a minute or so, and with just the right touch.

Just for the record, here's the procedure: boil baking potatoes in their skins just until tender. Drain them and as soon as it is physically possible, peel them. Press them through a ricer onto a wooden board and let them steam. Sprinkle with flour and gather into a rough, very shaggy mass. knead until they come together smooth. break off a chunk and roll it in a rope. cut in sections and shape them against a fork.

does that fit with your notion albert?

[Marlene]

Perogies? With cheddar cheese and mashed potatoes?

[albiston]

Just for the record, here's the procedure: boil baking potatoes in their skins just until tender. Drain them and as soon as it is physically possible, peel them. Press them through a ricer onto a wooden board and let them steam. Sprinkle with flour and gather into a rough, very shaggy mass. knead until they come together smooth. break off a chunk and roll it in a rope. cut in sections and shape them against a fork.

does that fit with your notion albert?

Perfetto! I couldn't have put it better myself, especially the missing egg part . The only difference in my method is that I use a gnocchi board to shape them, but that's just my kitchen gadget mania.

I have a question about potatoes: I found, sometimes with semi-disastrous results, that the definition of baking potato could mean quite different things in different countries. In Italy you would look for white, old potatoes to make gnocchi. Is that the same you'd use?

[russ parsons]

I have a question about potatoes: I found, sometimes with semi-disastrous results, that the definition of baking potato could mean quite different things in different countries. In Italy you would look for white, old potatoes to make gnocchi. Is that the same you'd use?

i use baking potatoes. the italian books i use seem to agree on "patate piu vecchie e farinose" (sp? gr? tr?). so to get the flouriest potatoes possible, I use russets. i have never seen them in italy, though, just the smooth-skinned. but i have to confess, potato shopping is not a big item on my trip to italy list.

[Redsugar]

In agreement with Marcella Hazan --but In disagreement with, e.g., Lidia Bastianich -- I recommend a viable remedy to achieve a dough with the proper density is to use neither baking nor new potatoes: Put your smart money on old boiling potatoes. Resist adding eggs to the dough, as they will cause the gnocchi to become heavy and course-textured. After all, the goal is to produce gnocchi that are light & soft.

Moreover, please do not underestimate the value of knowing the comparative uses of different potato varieties: For mashed and/or creamed potatoes, many chefs prefer to use either russet or Yukon Gold. Yet, for some tastes, russets are too mealy in texture. The latter variety, though, has a good amount of waxiness for mashing up. I’ve also had good results using Maine potatoes, notably Kennebecs. Try Green Mountain potatoes, too – if you can find them.

On the other hand, because of low-moisture content, baking potatoes (such as Russet Burbank, Norgold Russet, and Shepody) are ideal for latkes.

Also, I concur with Russ's comment, above -- viz., potatoes do not contain gluten. (Starch, yes, but not gluten.) People on gluten-free dietary constraints thus eat baked goods made with, among other types, potato flour.

Edited by Redsugar, 09 November 2004 - 05:29 AM.

[beccaboo]

I make fadge (potato pancakes) with my leftover mashed potatoes: Rub in enough flour (and a little baking powder) that the potatoes are roll-out-able, then roll them out into 1/6-inch thick circles about 7 inches in diameter. cut into farls (wedges), then cook on a lightly buttered griddle, turning once, till both sides are browned.

To make apple fadge, roll out two circles of dough, cover one with thinly-sliced apple, stick on the other, and bake the entire sandwich-circle on the griddle at a lower heat than you would have for the plain fadge.

[fryguy]

<snip>
When I have left over mash potatoes I often prepare some duchesse potatoes, by adding two yolks to every pound of potatoes, and maybe a bit of cream if the mash is too stiff. They freeze nicely once baked, so you can save them for later.

Based on a very bad experience at school, duchesse potatoes can kiss my ass. But it is a good suggestion.

[jschyun]

I have a question about potatoes: I found, sometimes with semi-disastrous results, that the definition of baking potato could mean quite different things in different countries. In Italy you would look for white, old potatoes to make gnocchi. Is that the same you'd use?

The reason why they way you want to use white, old potatoes, specifically old potatoes is that potatoes convert the sucrose in the potato into starch as they age. You want a starchier (or "floury") potato for gnocchi.