22 replies to this topic

[merstar]

Do you recommend it, and how does it compare with other Dutched cocoa powders, such as Droste, Bensdorp, etc?

[nightscotsman]

I've used it at home and I love it. Much darker and richer tasting than Droste (I haven't seen Bensdorp). It is dutch processed, though it doesn't say so on the label, so you have to take that into consideration when using in a recipe.

[Redsugar]

Neil, thanks for your comments re Pernigotti cocoa powder (esp. the caveat that it be used properly as a Dutch-processed cocoa!). I must purchase a small (2-lb.) sack and use it in custards. For many years, I used Droste predominantly, Bensdorp occasionally, but for the past 3 years, mostly van Houten because my provisioner supplies it at a consistently affordable price.

Would someone please post their comment(s) on Scharffen Berger cocoa powder?

[merstar]

I've used it at home and I love it. Much darker and richer tasting than Droste (I haven't seen Bensdorp). It is dutch processed, though it doesn't say so on the label, so you have to take that into consideration when using in a recipe.

Thanks, nightscotsman, I need to check this one out.

Edited by merstar, 28 October 2004 - 12:09 PM.

[merstar]

Neil, thanks for your comments re Pernigotti cocoa powder (esp. the caveat that it be used properly as a Dutch-processed cocoa!).  I must purchase a small (2-lb.) sack and use it in custards.  For many years, I used Droste predominantly, Bensdorp occasionally, but for the past 3 years, mostly van Houten because my provisioner supplies it at a consistently affordable price. 

Would someone please post their comment(s) on Scharffen Berger cocoa powder?

One word, EXCELLENT. It has a very, very deep, dark, rich chocolate taste with the right amount of intensity -it's the best natural cocoa powder I have found so far.

BTW, how does Van Houten compare with Droste?

[Redsugar]

"This is the age, among things, of chocolate." ~ J.B. Priestly, English Journey

Van Houten cocoa is manufactured in Norderstedt, Germany. Like Droste, van Leer, and Valhrona, it is a high-fat, Dutch-process cocoa powder. (Whereas organic cocoa – such as Rapunzel Kokoa – is, to my knowledge, generally marketted as a low-fat product. Dagoba doesn't seem to specify this characteristic for its cocoa.)

In 1928, the Dutch chemist Coenraad J. van Houten first produced cocoa by inventing the screw press to extract all the cocoa butter out of chocolate. He used "alkaline salts" to remove the acidity and bitterness, which is why alkali-processed cocoa is also called Dutch chocolate.

"Van Houten's inexhaustible patience and skill revolutionized the chocolate industry. It led to the manufacture of what we now know as cocoa powder, which in van Houten's time was called 'cocoa essence.' [He] sold his rights ten years after he took out the patent, and the machine came into general use. Among the first customers were the Frys and the Cadburys, ever eager to outdo each other."
C. Atkinson, M. Banks, C. France, and C. McFadden: Chocolate & Coffee, (New York, 2002), p. 20.

I would appraise van Houten as being similar to Droste, but slightly darker, with good strength & great depth of flavor.

As for top-grade, high-fat natural cocoas, Scharffen Berger is commonly rated one of the best. Last winter, an eminent chef in my city told a friend of mine (he was a dinner guest at her home) that he considered Michel Cluizel "Dark" the premium high-fat, natural process cocoa in the world.

Edited by Redsugar, 28 October 2004 - 02:09 PM.

[merstar]

Thanks for the info, Red.

Last winter, an eminent chef in my city told a friend of mine (he was a dinner guest at her home) that he considered Michel Cluizel "Dark" the premium high-fat, natural process cocoa in the world.

What exactly is the meaning of "natural process cocoa" as opposed to "natural cocoa?" I assume Michel Cluizel is a Dutch Processed cocoa from the description on www.chocosphere.com: "Dark" (Reddish) Cocoa Powder."

[KarenS]

I really like Valrhona cocoa.

[Ling]

I just discovered Pernigotti cocoa and it's fabulous--super dark, rich taste.

[miladyinsanity]

Have a question: Anybody heard of DeRoche?

I have been using Valrhona for the past year, but my regular shop is currently out of stock and I really really really really want World Peace Cookies.

[Abra]

Pernigotti's been my house cocoa for the past year or so. I even prefer it to Scharffenberger, my former favorite.

[paulraphael]

I was recently looking for cocoa powder advice from the chocoholic geniuses at seventypercent.com.

One tip I got was that the higher-fat cocoa powders are delicous but quite perishable; you can't keep them around as long or they lose a lot of flavor.

Another point was that high fat cocoas can diminish volume in desserts where the cocoa is folded into whipped egg whites.

There seems to be some consensus that the Cluizel cocoa kicks ass, but that it may not be available in anything more reasonable than 3kg bags. If anyone knows how to get a reasonable volume of this, I'd love to hear it.

Or we could chip in and split a bunch. 8oz would be good for me (it's high fat/low shelf life). A $77 3kg bag would make 13 8oz+ portions for $6 each.

I'd also like to try the Pernigotti. Anyone know if that's available locally in NYC?

[GlorifiedRice]

I really like Valrhona cocoa.

Valrhona is silky and sumptuous!
I always joke that Im gettin' a Kilo from South America.

Has anyone had the Hersheys Spa Chocolate Bath Products?
http://www.hersheypa...p/spa/index.asp

[GlorifiedRice]

I was recently looking for cocoa powder advice from the chocoholic geniuses at seventypercent.com.

One tip I got was that the higher-fat cocoa powders are delicous but quite perishable; you can't keep them around as long or they lose a lot of flavor.

Another point was that high fat cocoas can diminish volume in desserts where the cocoa is folded into whipped egg whites.

Why would it be more perishable? If regular chocolate BLOOMS its still good to eat and isnt spoiled...

And I guess thats why my Chocolate Angel Food Cake didnt rise as high as plain, I added Valrhona.

[merstar]

I was recently looking for cocoa powder advice from the chocoholic geniuses at seventypercent.com.

One tip I got was that the higher-fat cocoa powders are delicous but quite perishable; you can't keep them around as long or they lose a lot of flavor.

Another point was that high fat cocoas can diminish volume in desserts where the cocoa is folded into whipped egg whites.

There seems to be some consensus that the Cluizel cocoa kicks ass, but that it may not be available in anything more reasonable than 3kg bags. If anyone knows how to get a reasonable volume of this, I'd love to hear it.

Or we could chip in and split a bunch. 8oz would be good for me (it's high fat/low shelf life). A $77 3kg bag would make 13  8oz+ portions for $6 each.

I'd also like to try the Pernigotti. Anyone know if that's available locally in NYC?

I love seventypercent.com. Interesting info on high fat cocoas.

You can find Pernigotti at Williams-Sonoma.

[paulraphael]

Ok, I just picked up some Pernigotti ($12 for 8 oz; thank you very much for allowing me to be your bitch yet again, Messieurs Williams and Sonoma).

Since we now know it's somewhat perishable, does anyone have thoughts on storage? I used to keep cocoa in the pantry but now I'm considering sealing the container in a big ziplock and putting it in the fridge.

Good idea? Bad?

Edited by paulraphael, 29 June 2007 - 05:26 AM.

[Abra]

I got it from chefshop.com for about $20 a kilo, so I'd say you were seriously ripped off. I keep it in the pantry and haven't noticed any problems whatsoever from doing that.

[paulraphael]

This place has Cluizel (repacked from bulk), $7 for 8oz:

http://www.cooksshop...s/chocolate.htm

[sugarseattle]

i like pernigotti a lot, it makes great mochas and is very chocolatey without being assaulting. very smooth and velvety. i also like callebaut cocoa for it's similar richness and dark velvety color.

i like to smirk when I used to see new bakers come into our shared kitchen space with a big bag of hersheys, and then wonder why their chocolate cakes don't taste chocolatey enough. then i'd show them the two cocoas side by side and they'd understand why since hershey's is like beige compared to good cocoa. the next day the bag would be sitting in the entryway with a big "free" written on it.

[A Patric]

Hi All,

Did anyone ever find another on-line retailer for Pernigotti (other than chefshop.com) that will sell less than the 1 kg bag. I'd be happy with less than a lb.

Best,

Alan

[aguynamedrobert]

Well I saw a conversation on cocoa powder and you know I can't miss out on this. My favorite cocoa powder for a long time has been "Cocoa Rouge" cocoa powder from Guittard. I am biased because of my relationship with Guittard but I have actually used the cocoa powder since culinary school before I was afiliated with them and have loved it since the first time using it. It is a dutched cocoa with a nice brown/red color with a 22/24% fat content and is just beautiful in baked goods and in hot cocoa...

UM UM

Edited by aguynamedrobert, 12 September 2007 - 08:39 PM.

[aguynamedrobert]

Hello Everyone,
I have heard the name Pernigotti a few times here and there but know very little about them. They sell Cocoa under that name and I was wondering if they made chocolate as well? Also, Do they manufacturer it or do they buy it and just market it?

Any help would be great!

[tsquare]

They are a "famed Italian chocolate maker" according to ChefShop - they carry the cocoa. Located in Firenze, uh, Florence.

http://www.pernigotti.it/

Oh, I've had the chocolates in the US too.