33 replies to this topic

[Jason Perlow]

Tonight we made Egg Rolls, Spring Rolls, and Fried Dumplings/Wontons.

First we made the fillings:



This filling for the Egg Rolls is made of Napa Cabbage, Red Cabbage, Bean Sprout, Scallion, Shittakke, Black Fungus, White Mushrooms, Chinese Roast Pork, Ground Pork, and Shrimp. We sauteed the veggies in the fat rendered from the sauteed pork and seasoned with soy sauce, oyster sauce, salt and pepper. The entire mixture was then put into a colander and allowed to drain for an hour.



Second filling for the spring rolls is Chives, Ground Pork (uncooked), Firm Pressed Tofu, Bean Thread Noodle (allowed to soften in hot water for about 20 mins), Celery, Carrot, Ginger and Garlic, salt and pepper, sesame oil, soy sauce.



Here is a picture of the prep station, which includes beaten eggs for washing and sealing the eggrolls, a cutting board for rolling, and damp towel covering the egg roll wrappers to keep them moist.



A 1/4 cup of egg roll mixture is put into the center of the egg roll wrapper.



Edges are then brushed with eggwash



Roll is then wrapped thusly



And thus



Finished rolls are painted with a coating of eggwash



Deep fry until golden brown in vegetable oil (corn oil is good)



Finished eggrolls draining. Note that some of the eggrolls are fried in spring roll wrappers (although these are also called "egg roll" wrappers if you buy the imported ones from Hong Kong)



Egg Roll fried in domestically made egg roll wrapper



And one fried in imported wrapper, this kind is more like a spring roll



For the second batch we cut the imported wrappers into quarters, put in a teaspoon of filling and rolled up just like the big ones, but didn't use eggwash. These were sealed with just a dab of water at the edges.



Spring rolls cooling off



Spring Roll Closeup



We also bought some gyoza wrappers and deep fried those with the spring roll filling as well.

Spring rolls and Egg Rolls are easily frozen, put into freezer bags, and reheated in the toaster. So you can make a lot like we did all at once and eat the rest as you need them.

Any questions?

[Mayhaw Man]

So you can make a lot like we did all at once and eat the rest as you need them.

Any questions?

Eat the rest as you "need" them? Like, when you get a big craving on at two in the morning? Those look great Jason. Nice work.

[spaghetttti]

Those look amazingly good! Any accompanying dipping sauces?

[gus_tatory]

another gorgeous photo-essay from the Perlows. thanks.

and yay! something to make this weekend. i've wanted to buy lotus root and bamboo shoots for the longest time, so may alter your filling items slightly.

thanks again,
gus

ps: i thought the shrimp were cashews, and even after i realized they weren't, i was like, d*mn, cashews would be good in there...

Edited by gus_tatory, 21 October 2004 - 09:06 PM.

[lovebenton0]

Beautiful, Jason! I would need some of those on a daily basis.

How would you compare the crispness/grease retention between the two style wrappers?

[Jason Perlow]

Beautiful, Jason! I would need some of those on a daily basis.

How would you compare the crispness/grease retention between the two style wrappers?

The first time we used the imported wrappers from Hong Kong the grease retention was higher than the other kind, because although we used the exact same amount of filling, these wrappers were thinner and are somewhat spongy in consistency and thus allowed more oil to pass through. Next time we will use half the amount of filling and roll them tighter so that they would be crisper. We got the appropriate crisping effect when we quartered them and filled them with small amounts of spring roll filling.

[Jason Perlow]

Those look amazingly good! Any accompanying dipping sauces?

Yep. Chinese hot mustard and "Duck" sauce in mini packets leftover from our delivery this week. Must have's at an American Chinese restaurant.

Cool recipe for Duck Sauce

Plum Sauce would probably be a pretty good match for the eggrolls, whereas with the spring rolls and fried gyozas you could probably go for something vietnamese or thai style, like a nuoc mam/nuoc cham chili/fishsauce/lime juice type thing.

[spaghetttti]

Jason, of the three types --which did you eat the most of, ahem, prefer?

[Jason Perlow]

Jason, of the three types  --which did you eat the most of, ahem, prefer?

Well we ate some while we cooked and most we froze. I liked the egg roll mixture on the domestic wrappers the best and the spring roll mixture in the imported wrappers and in the gyoza wrappers. Actually the spring roll mixture is pretty close to a traditional korean "mandu" mixture or a vietnamese Cha Gio mixture. To make them vietnamese I would have just added some fish sauce and perhaps some crab meat and coriander/cilantro.

Speaking of crab meat, we also made Crab Rangoons. Not at all authentic Chinese, but damn they are tasty.

[torakris]

so when are you going to invite me over....??!!

[Jason Perlow]

so when are you going to invite me over....??!!

Anytime Kris... but that airfare from Kansai to Newark is killer...

[torakris]

so when are you going to invite me over....??!!

Anytime Kris... but that airfare from Kansai to Newark is killer...

Kansai??
I live in Kanto my dear.....
but the airfare is still a killer isn't it.....

[jschyun]

that spring roll closeup is a work of art. wow, that filling does look exactly like mandu, but the golden brown spring roll wrapper makes it look more attractive than usual, somehow. thank god I don't live anywhere near you guys because I really need to lose some weight.

thanks for sharing!

[skchai]

This filling for the Egg Rolls is made of Napa Cabbage, Red Cabbage, Bean Sprout, Scallion, Shittakke, Black Fungus, White Mushrooms, Chinese Roast Pork, Ground Pork, and Shrimp. We sauteed the veggies in the fat rendered from the sauteed pork and seasoned with soy sauce, oyster sauce, salt and pepper. The entire mixture was then put into a colander and allowed to drain for an hour.

. . .

Second filling for the spring rolls is Chives, Ground Pork (uncooked), Firm Pressed Tofu, Bean Thread Noodle (allowed to soften in hot water for about 20 mins), Celery, Carrot, Ginger and Garlic, salt and pepper, sesame oil, soy sauce.

You are some crazy guys . . . that level of ingredients has got to have aphrodisiastic (?) qualities.

[Dejah]

Your work is delicious, Jason! I love the ingredients you used.. They are all my favourite things.

But, you must be a really serious "egg roller" when you have to import wrappers from HK!

[Jason Perlow]

Your work is delicious, Jason! I love the ingredients you used.. They are all my favourite things.

But, you must be a really serious "egg roller" when you have to import wrappers from HK!    

Yeah, I was very surprised to have found them at the local Asian market. Most of those things tend to be made here in NY or out in SF or LA.

[Rachel Perlow]

You are some crazy guys . . .  that level of ingredients has got to have aphrodisiastic (?) qualities.

Well it is our anniversary today. Wink.


Anyway, Jason wanted me to post a more exact recipe & technique so here goes:

Egg Rolls

Vegetables1 napa cabbage, separate rib from leaf and slice both
2 stalks celery, finely sliced
1 lb bean sprouts
1 carrot, julienned (for color, I also used up a bit of red cabbage that was in the fridge)
4 oz white mushroom, sliced
2 oz drived mushroom, soaked, sliced (I used black fungus and shitake)
1 med onion, quartered & sliced
1 bunch scallion, separate white from green, finely sliced
8 waterchestnuts, julienned
Meats1 lb shrimp, cooked & roughly chopped (we had shrimp for dinner last night and I bought extra, cooked them all at the same time, seasoned with soy sauce and sesame oil. There was a lot of liquid in the container, drain off and reserve)
6 oz chinese roast pork, cooked & sliced
4 oz ground pork, fresh
Flavorings2 Tbs Soy Sauce - divided
1 tsp rice wine vinegar
2 tsp chinese mustard
2 tsp salt (most of this will be used to salt the cabbage and rinsed away, only use about 1/2 tsp in the sauce)
1 tsp sugar
1/2 tsp pepper
1 tsp corn starch
drained shrimp "stock"
1/4 cup oyster sauce
AlsoPork Fat and/or Peanut or Corn Oil
Several bowls
At least two colanders/strainers
Large Wok
Prep the cabbage first, then placing the leaves and ribs in separate strainers, liberally salt them. Allow to rest for 30 minutes, rinse thoroughly, and drain for another 30 minuts (or use a salad spinner).

After the cabbage is salted, rinsed and drained, and the rest of the ingredients are assembled, the first thing to cook is the roast pork. You want to cook it slow to render out some of its fat. Remove from wok and set aside. Turn up the heat and stir fry the cabbage in the pork fat, first the ribs then the leaves. If you don't have much pork fat, and for subsequent stir frying, use peanut oil, corn oil, and/or bacon grease alone or in combination. Stir fry each vegetable individually, seasoning with a small splash of soy sauce, until it is just barely cooked. Add each ingredient to a large colander inserted in a larger bowl as it is cooked. Vegetables with similar cooking times may be combined, but you don't want to overcrowd your wok.

After the vegetables are cooked, add the fresh ground pork to the wok, when it almost done, add the reconstituted dried mushrooms (if you didn't cook them yet). Mix the corn starch and other flavoring ingredients into the shrimp jus. If you don't have any, you could use chicken stock, or just whatever juice has accumulated in the bowl under the colander with the vegetables in it. Cook down until very thick, almost dry. Lower the heat and pour all the vegetables and cooked meat into the wok. Carefully stir and fold the ingredients until they are all thoroughly mixed with each other and the sauce. Using two large wooden spatulas helped. Pour all the ingredients back into the colander in the bowl and allow to drain/cool for at least 1/2 hour.

Jason described the filling/rolling/frying pretty well above. The oil should be at around 375 F, but I used the bubbles on the chopstick combined with the sacrificial first fry technique.

Pork and Chive Dumpling Filling

1 bunch green Chinese Chives (not the same as the chive herb. If you can't find them (or yellow chives) a better substitute would be scallions
1 cake pressed tofu, finely diced (by hand)
1 lb fresh ground pork
1 small can water chestuts
4 gloves garlic
1 small finger of ginger, peeled and sliced against the grain
1 carrot, peeled, roughly chopped
2 ribs celery, roughly chopped
1 oz cellophane noodle, soaked
1 Tbs Soy Sauce
1 Tbs Oyster Sauce
1 tsp sesame oil
1/2 tsp black pepper
1 egg, beaten

Slice the chinese chives finely and put in a large bowl. Add the finely diced tofu and ground pork.

Set up your food processor. With the blade spinning, drop in the garlic and ginger. Then the roughly chopped carrot, celery and water chestnuts. Pulse to chop, but not puree the vegetables. Add to the chives & pork bowl. Add the drained cellophane noodles to the FP and chop, add to the bowl. Add the seasonings and egg and mix thoroughly, you may have to use your hands.

Use this filling for steamed or boiled dumplings, fried gyoza or mini-egg rolls.

Very important: when filling the rolls or dumplings, especially when frying, it is necessary to get out as much air as possible, so that they don't blow up and ruin the oil.

[albiston]

Well it is our anniversary today. Wink.

Best wishes then!

And thanks for the recipe: saved and will be tried out soon... though not as soon as I'd like

[Jake]

Best wishes on your anniversary. The food looks incredible....when will you be starting your flash frozen mail order business????

[sequim]

I think I'd like to revive this thread as I just had a sad calamity with my attempt at potstickers yesterday. Perhaps someone could offer some advice. I love all the dumplings, spring rolls and egg rolls and I want to get good at making them.

So this was my attempt at a dumpling/potsticker. I followed Tom Douglas's Seattle Kitchen recipe for Lobster/Shitake potstickers but I substituted, and I wonder if that was a mistake. Instead of fresh lobster or crab, I used well drained canned crab. Instead of fresh shitake mushrooms I used dried shitakes that I let sit in brought to boil water for quite some time, that I then diced very small and sauteed for quite some time with shredded carrots.

I then rolled this and my seasonings (I used no egg or pork) into the square wrappers and sealed with water. They looked okay, but my wrappers had been in the freezer (although well sealed) for several months and were alittle dry. The recipe then said to boil for about 5 minutes and after that to pan fry. I boiled but towards the end of the boiling time, they started falling apart! Big fluffy bits of mushroom were floating around and I was wondering if they hadn't been fully reconstituted as they appeared twice their size, and whether they had exploded the dumplings. I thought I had squeezed the air out and rolled them tightly, but then your admonition above made me think maybe air inside had exploded them. Or was it the dry wrappers?

Also I wonder if egg and/or ground pork better helps the filling to stick together. When I make potstickers, the filling always seems too fluffy, not dense as I like it.

[Yuki]

I think I'd like to revive this thread as I just had a sad calamity with my attempt at potstickers yesterday.  Perhaps someone could offer some advice.  I love all the dumplings, spring rolls and egg rolls and I want to get good at making them. 

So this was my attempt at a dumpling/potsticker.  I followed Tom Douglas's Seattle Kitchen recipe for Lobster/Shitake potstickers but I substituted, and I wonder if that was a mistake.  Instead of fresh lobster or crab, I used well drained canned crab. Instead of fresh shitake mushrooms I used dried shitakes that I let sit in brought to boil water for quite some time,  that I then diced very small and sauteed for quite some time with shredded carrots.

I then rolled this and my seasonings (I used no egg or pork) into the square wrappers and sealed with water.  They looked okay, but my wrappers had been in the freezer (although well sealed) for several months and were alittle dry.  The recipe then said to boil for about 5 minutes and after that to pan fry.  I boiled but towards the end of the boiling time, they started falling apart!  Big fluffy bits of mushroom were floating around and I was wondering if they hadn't been fully reconstituted as they appeared twice their size, and whether they had exploded the dumplings.  I thought I had squeezed the air out and rolled them tightly, but then your admonition above made me think maybe air inside had exploded them.  Or was it the dry wrappers? 

Also I wonder if egg and/or ground pork better helps the filling to stick together. When I make potstickers, the filling always seems too fluffy, not dense as I like it.

The part about boil then pan fry sounded a bit odd to me. To make pot sticker
1.) Heat up a pan with some oil
2.) Put the raw dumplings in it until the bottom turn golden brown
3.) Add some water and cover
4.) After the water is dried up, remove cover and cook until the bottom of the dumplings are crispy

It seemed a bit odd to combine lobster and dried mushroom since I think the flavour of the mushroom will overpower the lobster. If the dumplings were wrapped tightly then using a dry or wet fillings shouldn't be a big problem. So the wrapper is squre shaped instead of circular?

[sequim]

The part about boil then pan fry sounded a bit odd to me. To make pot sticker
1.) Heat up a pan with some oil
2.) Put the raw dumplings in it until the bottom turn golden brown
3.) Add some water and cover
4.) After the water is dried up, remove cover and cook until the bottom of the dumplings are crispy

It seemed a bit odd to combine lobster and dried mushroom since I think the flavour of the mushroom will overpower the lobster. If the dumplings were wrapped tightly then using a dry or wet fillings shouldn't be a big problem. So the wrapper is squre shaped instead of circular?

Yes, in retrospect and reading other recipes, I see they are frequently put in a pan with some water, although I have seen another recipe that also boiled the dumplings.

My wrappers are the square ones. They were alittle dry, though, and some would rip when I tried to separate them. I didn't use the ripped ones.

[jo-mel]

I do as Yuki does -- pan-fry / water halfway up / steam / pan-fry. The dumplings are so closely stacked, that even if some should open a bit, nothing comes out as the water is so shallow.

There was one recipe that was called Shanghai Pot Stickers that changed the process. The dumplings were closely stacked in an oiled, stick-free pan and the water was put in first - half way up -- and the dumplings were allowed to cook. The water burned off and Then the bottom were browned. I forget where I read that recipe.

I usually use Shanghai Gyoza round wrappers. They are thicker and don't seem to dry out as quickly as the thinner ones.

[hzrt8w]

..... The recipe then said to boil for about 5 minutes and after that to pan fry.  I boiled but towards the end of the boiling time, they started falling apart!  Big fluffy bits of mushroom were floating around and I was wondering if they hadn't been fully reconstituted as they appeared twice their size, and whether they had exploded the dumplings.  I thought I had squeezed the air out and rolled them tightly, but then your admonition above made me think maybe air inside had exploded them.  Or was it the dry wrappers? 

There are a couple of issues in your approach.

1. Where is the binding agent? With regular pot stickers, the ground pork -- after smashing against the mixing bowl or put in a food processor -- is your binding agent which glue all the ingredients together (pork, chive, mushroom, carrot, whatever). Crab meat doesn't have the adhesiveness needed. That's why the ingredients are not sticking together. Can you accept adding a little bit of ground pork to your filling?

2. Dried mushrooms should be reconstituted by soaking in luke warm water for at least 6 hours (overnight if possible). There is no quick way to do this. Dumping in boiling water would not achieve the same result.

3. Your wrappers are probably too dry. When you brush on water on the rim trying to seal the pot stickers, the seal won't hold. Getting fresh wrapper would solve that issue. But... you can also use a bit of flour, mix it with water to form a sticky, thick paste. Use this paste to seal your pot stickers instead of just water. Or you can break an egg and use the egg white to seal your pot stickers.

4. The cooking process. No need to boil the pot stickers separately. Just use a bit of oil, lay the pot stickers flat on the pan, fill in a bit of water, cover the lid and let it fry and steam at the same time for 15 minutes. The water will evaporate and the bottom of the pot stickers will turn dark brown (and stick to the pan, guaranteed!) .

[Dejah]

I also follow yuki's proceedure with potstickers...panfry then add water, cover with a lid and steam until all the water has evaporated. This makes the dumplings golden brown and fluffy.

With the crab meat, try adding beated egg white to your mixture. This would act as the binding agent hzrt mentioned.

I never get fresh shitaki mushrooms here, so reconstitued is all I use. Being a senior, I often forget to prepare the mushrooms early, so I just rinse them once, then soak in hot water for about an hour. This seems to work well except for the piece attached to the stem. Boiling them should have been fine especially if they felt soft when you diced them. I find if you soak them too long, you lose much of the flavour.

BTW, save the soaking liquid for the steaming part, or for a soup base with winter melon, etc.

[sequim]

Thanks for the great suggestions, everybody!

Yes, I am puzzled why the recipe did not have a binding agent like egg or ground pork - I deduced that has been the problem with my potstickers being too fluffy.

I didn't realize that the mushrooms had to soak so long. I actually didn't boil them, only put them in the water once it came to a boil and took off the heat, so guess it wasn't long enough. And next time I will use the soaking water! Waste not, want not.

Last night I went out and got some new wrappers (I didn't buy the real thin ones at the advice of the guy at the market) and some ground pork. I think I may have a better result next time due to all the excellent advice here.

[jo-mel]

Cornstarch is another binding agent.

This is probably a no-no, but one time I forgot to soak my dried mushrooms, and needed them ASAP ----so, I nuked them in water to cover and in les than five minutes they were ready. I didn't detect ny loss of flavor, but then I don't have the most acute palate.

[Dejah]

Cornstarch is another binding agent.

This is probably a no-no, but one time I forgot to soak my dried mushrooms, and needed them ASAP ----so, I nuked them in water to cover and in les than five minutes they were ready.  I didn't detect ny loss of flavor, but then I don't have the most acute palate.

Quite acceptable practice when you're in a hurry or having senior moments like I do.

[Ben Hong]

I have always preferred to demur from giving out recipes, for many, many reasons, but the main one is that I cook by taste and procedure. It is difficult to impart the nuances of procedure to someone by words alone and nigh on impossible with regards to taste.

Sequim's problems with recipes IS the problem with recipes. In my experience a lot of recipes are not complete; in procedure, ingredients, proportions, cooking times, etc., etc. A lot of recipes are written too simply or worse, with the assumption that the reader has a certain level of expertise. Sequim did right in asking advice.

[Rachel Perlow]

In both our fresh and frozen/reheated egg rolls (see photolog above), the filling is just too wet. Any advice on getting a filling more like in a restaurant egg roll?