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The Aviation


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#151 Bunnyhugs

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Posted 10 April 2008 - 07:26 PM

I got hold of some Briottet creme de violette yesterday and made an aviation as follows:

2 oz plymouth
1/2 oz lemon juice
1/3 oz Maraska
1/6 oz creme de violette

Perhaps the violette could still be cut back a notch but I don't find this massively overpowering. . . I mean I've been waiting years to get hold of violette. I want to be able to taste the stuff thank you very much!

But really. . is there anything wrong with the above proportions? I'd call the drink balanced. It could be drier, but it is hardly sweet.


Also, isn't Rangpur verging on being a liqueur gin? It seems like a weird choice of mixing gin if you are concerned about liqueurs taking over the drink. Just my opinion.

#152 Chris Hennes

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Posted 18 August 2008 - 08:01 PM

I tried these proportions in an aviation, and ugh. Too much violette. Way too perfumey.

2oz Gin
1/2oz Lemon Juice
2tsp. Maraschino
1tsp. Creme De Violette

I tried to fix it with more gin and lemon juice, but I still feel like I'm at the opera and breathing in three different kinds of heavily-applied perfume. I'd suggest 1/4 or 1/8 teaspoon instead.

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My CdV just came in today so I just made a drink very close to this, except using just under 1/2 oz of Maraschino (Luxardo): it seems to be quite well balanced, with just the barest hint of the perfume from the Violette. This could be because the Luxardo has a more pronounced flavor, or because I used more of it, or both.

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#153 Dan Perrigan

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Posted 14 December 2009 - 11:48 AM

Hi All.

It's been about a year and a half since the last post, and I figured this thread needed a bump -- for several reasons:

1. R&W Creme de Violette is widely available now. (and I believe they modified their formulation a year or two ago).
2. The Gin situation has changed (new gins, certain ones becoming more expensive)
3. It's my favorite drink.
and
4. Being a brand new member, I never got a chance to participate in the original discussion :)

So here we go again:

I first heard of this drink a couple months ago (in Ted Haigh's "Vintage Cocktails") and knew I had to try it. I found Luxardo Maraschino nearby and then went on a quest for Creme de Violette. I finally found some at Astor Wines in NYC, rushed home, and mixed up a proper Aviation.

Woops. Too sweet.

Then I scoured the net and found some blogs -- and also found eGullet -- and tried the ratios I've seen posted here:

2 oz Plymouth Gin
1/2 to 3/4 oz lemon juice
2 tsp Luxardo
1 tsp R&W Creme de Violette.

I was instantly in love. With these brands and these proportions, this is a perfect drink. Each ingredient reveals itself (sometimes several different times) from smell, to sip, to swallow, to luscious aftertaste. (Mmm, I'm getting thirsty...)

So now I'm hooked. But Plymouth is up over $45/Liter, so I've been testing different gins out. Here's what I've found:

Bluecoat: This is a delicious gin, and makes the best martini (4:1 or 3:1, Noilly) that I've ever had. But it went completely flat in an Aviation.
Tanqueray: Good. But not great. Something is missing.
Gordons: Also kind of flat and, well, gray. The drink equivalent of going from color to black and white.
Beefeater: Almost, (but not quite), as good as the Plymouth. If I wasn't tasting them side by side, I MIGHT not have noticed.

I still haven't found a perfect substitute yet. With Plymouth, this drink SINGS. I'm still trying different gins, as bottles run out.

So now (I hope) the discussion is on. What recipes are you using? What gins have you tried (and what did you think?). Also, for anyone lucky enough to get their hands on a bottle of Creme Yvette, how does that compare in an Aviation?

Cheers,
Dan

#154 thirtyoneknots

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Posted 14 December 2009 - 01:16 PM

$45 for Plymouth?! Holy cow, where does it cost that much so I know where not to move to?

The increasing price of Plymouth is sort of insulting when you consider that it could be had for about $13 for a 750 just a few years ago. Locally it is now about double that and I drink a lot less of it than I used to as a result but at $45...well I'm not sure that you could make a dry gin I would pay that much for. Ridiculous.

Beefeaters has become my go-to both at home and at work since it is highly versatile and reasonably priced still. And it does in fact make a lovely Aviation.
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#155 thirtyoneknots

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Posted 14 December 2009 - 01:18 PM

Oh, forgot to add--I think Boodles is actually my favorite Aviation gin. Something about it's up front florality and relatively short finish works so nicely with violette, which often tastes like something hard to place on the palate but lingers long afterwards.
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#156 KD1191

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Posted 14 December 2009 - 01:49 PM

Beefeater, I think, has become a standard for price conscious shoppers. Broker's is an excellent sub-$20/750ml gin...often a buck or two cheaper than Beefeater, and offering some variety. Not sure I've tried it in an aviation, but it has some citrus on it, so I think it'd do just fine.

Personally, for my favorite Aviation, I like Leopold's. Also a good deal of citrus, but a bit more exotic (pomelo) and flowery, which is quite nice with the Violette.
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#157 Dan Perrigan

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Posted 14 December 2009 - 02:43 PM

$45 for Plymouth?! Holy cow, where does it cost that much so I know where not to move to?


Northern New Jersey (I just added it to my profile). Actually, after writing that, I searched again and did find a store not too far from here that has it for $25 for 750ml.

Thanks, Andy, for the Boodles suggestion. And KD1191, for the Leopold's. I'll keep an eye out for them. I haven't seen Broker's around here yet, but remember seeing it in Chicago when I was there last. I've been wanting to try it, too.

Dan

#158 David A. Goldfarb

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Posted 22 December 2009 - 05:07 PM

I just picked up a bottle of Luxardo Maraschino from Warehouse Wines and Spirits on Broadway near NYU to try this. 2 oz. Boodles, 1/2 oz. Maraschino, 1/2 oz. lemon juice, shaken with three ice cubes until cold, lemon zest garnish. I think I'm about ready for another one.

Edited by David A. Goldfarb, 22 December 2009 - 05:08 PM.


#159 John DePaula

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Posted 22 December 2009 - 05:24 PM

I don't have any creme de violette so I've been using a Violette essence, just a drop or two, and it yields a very nice just perceptible floral note to the Aviation. I think it's quite good.
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#160 John Rosevear

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Posted 22 December 2009 - 06:58 PM

My sense is that Beefeater has really upped their game in recent years. My default standard at home is Plymouth, and I usually have Boodles (an old college favorite) around, but there's absolutely nothing wrong with Beefeater and I prefer it over many showier (and costlier) bottlings.
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#161 vice

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Posted 22 December 2009 - 08:24 PM

My sense is that Beefeater has really upped their game in recent years.

This struck me as rather interesting. I've only been familiar with Beefeater for the past few years, so can't comment, but my impression is that Beefeater's reputation has been built on being a stalwart, old reliable sort of product (certainly not a flashy up-and-comer, but I suppose that's what Beefeater 24 is for). For those with perspective, has their product been changing through the recent past?
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#162 Shamanjoe

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Posted 22 December 2009 - 09:20 PM

I've never really been a fan of Beefeaters, though I can't say for sure why. It's not bad, but it's not great either. Maybe I need to pick up a fresh bottle and try it.

As for Plymouth, I've heard everybody rant and rave about it. but I haven't seen what's so special about it either. I have all the stuff for an aviation, but I haven't gotten around to trying it yet.. :sad:

I have used Plymouth in other cocktails though, like my old stand-by the Tom Collins and it seems to get lost.. Maybe that works in an Aviation? I'll try the Aviation with a few different gins over the next couple holiday days and let y'all know what I think.
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#163 FireAarro

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Posted 23 December 2009 - 05:51 AM

I have used Plymouth in other cocktails though, like my old stand-by the Tom Collins and it seems to get lost.. Maybe that works in an Aviation? I'll try the Aviation with a few different gins over the next couple holiday days and let y'all know what I think.


I agree, I find Plymouth gets lost in a lot of drinks. I've found it to work very well in some drinks with Cherry Heering, like both of these drinks, which I heartily recommend.

#164 Shamanjoe

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Posted 24 December 2009 - 03:25 PM

I tried the Aviation from Gary Regan's iPhone app Flip N Drink..

Aviation (from Flip N Drink)

1.5 oz gin (Plymouth)
0.5 oz maraschino liqueur (Luxardo)
0.5 oz Creme de Violette (Rothman and Winter)
0.5 oz fresh lemon juice

Shake with ice and strain into a chilled cocktail glass.

It was a bit too dry for my tastes, but still very good. I think maybe it needs a little less Creme de Violette, or maybe a slightly longer shake..
"...which usually means underflavored, undersalted modern French cooking hidden under edible flowers and Mexican fruits."

- Jeffrey Steingarten, in reference to "California Cuisine".

#165 Corinna

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Posted 24 November 2010 - 07:50 PM

Finally managed a bottle of Luxardo Maraschino, after reading about it on egullet and many cocktail blogs. Currently enjoying my first Aviation (sans Violette, for now) as much as I knew I would. Indeed greater than the sum of its parts. Excited to play with different gins, etc.

In the spirit of the season, I am so thankful for the like-minded people I've found here, who are so generous with their knowledge.
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#166 Mayur

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Posted 25 November 2010 - 10:38 AM

Beefeater is the bomb. I do prefer something citric in an Aviation, but we use Beefeater at home all the time (the s/o is an Aviation addict) and it turns out well. I actually prefer varying the recipe to use Yvette instead of the R&W, with occasional deviations to violet syrup (I have a gorgeous French farmer's product as well as the Monin to hand). To be honest, I'm not in love with the R&W Violette, though I feel like their other products (pear, apricot, cherry) are some of the tastiest I've ever had in class.

I do 2 gin: 1/2 lemon: 1/2 simple: 1/2 maraschino : float barspoon violette for my Aviation #1; no garnish. Plymouth is fine with this spec.
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#167 JoNorvelleWalker

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Posted 26 May 2014 - 09:31 PM

I've been working on aviations (although I like allens too).  I think Ensslin hit the aviation just right with the 2:1 gin to lemon juice.  This is not a daiquiri.  But two dashes (whatever that is) of maraschino and violette is not enough maraschino for my taste.  My best aviation so far (after half a bottle of gin's worth of research) is:

 

2 oz Bombay dry

1 oz lemon juice

1/2 oz maraschino

1 teaspoon liqueur de violettes (Tempus Fugit)

 

 

Any more liqueur de violettes and the drinks get kind of perfumey.  Fortunately liqueur de violettes is not all that sweet, so one can use more maraschino.  I love maraschino.  This lets one just taste and enjoy the liqueur de violettes.

 

Ensslin's violette may have been sweeter than what I'm using.  This gets to the real question:  with what was Ensslin's violette colored?  Why would he have thought the drink looks anything like the sky?  As I understand it arround 1916 fuchine/mauveine was popular as a food coloring but it was banned in the US over concerns of transitional cell carcinoma.  My bottle of Tempus Fugit is colored with little bugs, which have been popular in alcohol since the middle ages if not before.  And it is nice to have no artificial coloring.  But Tempus Fugit looks nothing like the sky.


Edited by JoNorvelleWalker, 26 May 2014 - 09:31 PM.


#168 lesliec

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Posted 26 May 2014 - 11:56 PM

Could you get some colour from the violets themselves?

If I had to do it myself, I'd make the liqueur then steep some petals in the finished product. Purpleish, sunsetty sky?

The Aviation has too much lemon (ie any at all, almost) for my taste, but you've mentioned the Allen twice now with no mention of what's in it. Some reseach is called for!

Edit: Found an Allen recipe with half a teaspoon of lemon. I think I can handle that.

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#169 JoNorvelleWalker

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 12:56 AM

http://forums.egulle...2007/?p=1255267



#170 JoNorvelleWalker

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Posted 30 May 2014 - 08:32 PM

While waiting for Leslie's Lear Jet to arrive I'm sipping on an aviation.  Same recipe as above.  My guardian was an aviator in the great war, Brooks Brothers uniform and all, and I remember his tales of people flying under bridges.

 

Still, I am deeply discouraged not knowing with what Ensslin's drink was colored.  Would it have been with synthetic color or with cochineal, as is the Tempus Fugit that I'm using?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cochineal



#171 Hassouni

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Posted 30 May 2014 - 08:55 PM

I don't know if it would have been synthetic, but probably closer to a deep purple, as Crème Yvette, Parfait Amour, and R&W CdV are. When made with R&W, an Aviation is a lovely light shade of purple-tinged blue. See here: http://www.thebubbly...com/blog/?p=688



#172 JoNorvelleWalker

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Posted 30 May 2014 - 09:28 PM

Then what colorant makes that lovely light shade of purple-tinged blue?  (And was it available in Ensslin's day?)



#173 FrogPrincesse

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Posted 31 May 2014 - 12:02 AM

Based on a quick search in google books, creme de violette used to be distilled from irises and artificially colored with cochineal and indigo blue.
This is from a French book published in 1866.

#174 JoNorvelleWalker

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Posted 31 May 2014 - 12:42 AM

Thanks so much for the research!  Actually cochineal and indigo are natural coloring, are they not?  At least in the US.  That would explain why Tempus Fugit does not look much like the noon day sky.  What coloring is used in modern crème de violette?  Does the bottle say?

 

Maybe Magellan gin would solve the problem if I could find it!



#175 FrogPrincesse

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Posted 31 May 2014 - 01:48 AM

By artificially colored, I meant that the color had been added and was not from the flowers themselves.

R&W gets its color from a mixture of FD&C blue # 1 (E133, aka brilliant blue) and FD&C red #40 (E129).

Does Tempus Fugit only use cochineal (which is carmine red)? They would also need a blue dye to get a purple color. Or try changing the pH to basic, cochineal is supposed to turn violet at higher pH.

#176 Kerry Beal

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Posted 31 May 2014 - 06:07 AM

Based on a quick search in google books, creme de violette used to be distilled from irises and artificially colored with cochineal and indigo blue.
This is from a French book published in 1866.

So I read this as Orris root - I should give this a try cause I've got orris root.  Don't have conchineal and indigo but lots of other choices for colour.



#177 FrogPrincesse

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Posted 31 May 2014 - 07:55 AM

I think you are right. The recipe just says "iris" but most likely they are referring to the root, which is also used to make gin.

#178 JoNorvelleWalker

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Posted 31 May 2014 - 11:49 AM

By artificially colored, I meant that the color had been added and was not from the flowers themselves.

R&W gets its color from a mixture of FD&C blue # 1 (E133, aka brilliant blue) and FD&C red #40 (E129).

Does Tempus Fugit only use cochineal (which is carmine red)? They would also need a blue dye to get a purple color. Or try changing the pH to basic, cochineal is supposed to turn violet at higher pH.

 

If Tempus Fugit had artificial color I believe by law they would be obliged to say.  The small text on the bottle says:  "contains cochineal extract".  The label also states:  "Liqueur de Violettes' delicate color is the result of natural ingredients, so please store out of direct sunlight and heat to reduce fading over time."  Seems appropriate for the brand name.  Indeed the color of cochineal is fugitive.

 

I enjoy lemon juice too much in my aviations to try what happens at high pH!  My son is coming over in a bit and should we have time I'd like to go on a search for Magellan.



#179 JoNorvelleWalker

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Posted 31 May 2014 - 11:21 PM

Absolutely no luck finding Magellan.  But my grandson won his ballgame 7-2.



#180 Kerry Beal

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Posted 01 June 2014 - 10:01 AM

Orris root infusions under way - one is 25% powdered orris root in 92% ETOH, the other 50% orris root pieces in 92% ETOH.

 

 

Apparently I need to shake 5 times per day for a month - might just bung it in the ultrasonic cleaner next time I have the house to myself.