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#1 Hiroyuki

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Posted 26 April 2004 - 06:05 AM

I have no clear image of how this thread is going to be in the future.

The future of this thread is up to members. I like this sentence:

If you build it, he will come.

I have built a thread, somebody will come.

Maybe you can use this thread to ask a question like this:

I don't know how to pronounce 甘夏. Somebody help me.

Someone else (probably me) can answer that question.

Note: If a moderator finds this thread inappropriate, I'd like him or her to delete it.

#2 torakris

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Posted 26 April 2004 - 02:59 PM

I have no problem with this thread as long as it pretty much sticks with food related stuff! :biggrin:

If you have a Japanese word that you want to know what it means or vice versa a word in English that you want to know its English equivalent please post here.
If on the otherhand you actually want to discuss a particular food then a new thread wouuld be more appropriate as things could get lost in here.

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#3 Hiroyuki

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Posted 26 April 2004 - 04:15 PM

I understand that English-speaking people have difficulty pronouncing short and long vowels correctly.

In Japanese, the difference between short and long vowels is critical.

Don't confuse sho-jo (virgin) 処女 with shoh-jo (girl) 少女.

Another possible confusion:

Shoh-jo, mentioned above, is written as しょうじょ in hiragana, or sho-u-jo.
Confused?
Let me give you another example.
The Japanese word for clock (or watch) is written as とけい (to-ke-i) in hiragana, but it is actually pronounced not to-ke-i but to-kee (where kee denotes a long ke vowel).

Edited by Hiroyuki, 26 April 2004 - 05:30 PM.


#4 Hiroyuki

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Posted 27 April 2004 - 02:35 AM

Today's review:

甘夏 a-ma-na-tsu: sweet Chinese citron
お好み焼き o-ko-no-mi-ya-ki: Japanese pizza?
目利き me-ki-ki: connosseur, judgment

#5 jhlurie

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Posted 27 April 2004 - 04:05 AM

Hiroyuki , you may want to stick to a strict "ask a question and be answered" format. If you specifically go the route of daily language lessons, you may be duplicative of many of the entries in Kris' famous long running daily Nihongo: talking about food in Japanese topic.

Don't mistake me, in my opinion the greater the supply of knowledge providers available here the better. There just may be some confusion and overlap between the topics if care isn't taken.
Jon Lurie, aka "jhlurie"

#6 Hiroyuki

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Posted 27 April 2004 - 04:43 AM

OK. I'll follow your suggestion.

#7 torakris

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Posted 27 April 2004 - 03:08 PM

I was under the impression that this thread would be a place where people could just ask a question that wasn't pertaining to any thread. For example if someone had lunch at a Japanese friend's house and was served a dish with myoga in it and maybe the Japanese friend couldn't explain what they was then they could come to this thread and ask, "what is myoga?".
It is a kind of question that doesn't really need a whole thread about it and the person may not be able to find a relevant in the Japan Forum pages, it would just need a simple answer and then would be over.

For answering questions about things like pronunciations or other things that appear already in an existing thread I feel it is better to answer in that thread, most people will not think to look over here for the answer and it could be a lot of work, and quite confusing to readers if we just start pulling various words out of threads on a daily basis and listing them here.

Just my opinion..... :biggrin:

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#8 Sleepy_Dragon

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Posted 29 April 2004 - 09:42 PM

So when attempting to order nigiri sushi from the waitstaff, let's say you want several kinds, do you have to put "to" between each type of nigiri?

ie. Otoro to shiromaguro to uni to sawara to ikura to hamachi wo onegaishimasu. :blink:

What is the best way to order a list of things you choose?

Pat
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#9 Hiroyuki

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Posted 29 April 2004 - 10:03 PM

ie. Otoro to shiromaguro to uni to sawara to ikura to hamachi wo onegaishimasu.  :blink:

Perfect Japanese. Any Japanese would be amazed at your fluency in Japanese. Omitting "to" between items sounds rather curt to me. But some Japanese may have other opinions.

You know, there can no such things as the "best way" to order. Yours is really perfect--really a polite way of ordering. Some japanese, especially males, just mention the item only, not adding "wo kudasai", "wo onegaishimasu", and so on.

One correction: not nigiri sushi but nigiri zushi. When preceded by certain words, sushi changes into zushi.
Thus,
chirashi zushi
inari zushi
temaki zushi
If you read Japanese hiragana, this may be easier to understand: su す changes to zu ず.

#10 Sleepy_Dragon

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Posted 29 April 2004 - 10:19 PM

Thank you very much for the clarification, Hiroyuki. And the compliment, but the credit for that should go to my Japanese teacher, as he is careful about teaching the polite form for everything! Well, he will teach the blunt form too, but only as a warning for what -not- to say unless the situation is a really familiar one among peers where you know the context is ok.

So ok, using "to" (means "and" for anyone else reading and trying to follow along) is considered polite. That's a relief to know. I haven't wanted to try ordering in Japanese because it sounded so excessive to say "to" after each thing, especially when my typical nigiri zushi (zushi! Thank you for this correction too) order is 8-12 kinds. I'm glad it's actually ok.

Arigatou gozaimasu, Hiroyuki-san.

Pat

Edited by Sleepy_Dragon, 29 April 2004 - 10:20 PM.

"I... like... FOOD!" -Red Valkyrie, Gauntlet Legends-

#11 Gary Soup

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Posted 29 April 2004 - 10:21 PM

Don't confuse sho-jo (virgin) 処女 with shoh-jo (girl) 少女.

Is this a commentary on modern Japanese society? I'll only speculate on which one has anything to do with eating.

#12 Hiroyuki

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Posted 29 April 2004 - 10:26 PM

Don't confuse sho-jo (virgin) 処女 with shoh-jo (girl) 少女.

Is this a commentary on modern Japanese society? I'll only speculate on which one has anything to do with eating.

I don't know what to say. I'd like a moderator or someone appropriate to delete any offensive remarks I have made.

#13 torakris

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Posted 29 April 2004 - 10:31 PM

Don't confuse sho-jo (virgin) 処女 with shoh-jo (girl) 少女.

Is this a commentary on modern Japanese society? I'll only speculate on which one has anything to do with eating.

I don't know what to say. I'd like a moderator or someone appropriate to delete any offensive remarks I have made.

I don't think there is anything offensive here, it is just a good example of how the meaning can change by shortening or lengthening the stress on the vowel.
I have really noticed that this is one problem that foreigners (myself included) seem to have the most problems.....

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#14 Pan

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Posted 29 April 2004 - 10:32 PM

You think Japanese is hard for pronunciation of short and long vowels? Try Hungarian...

#15 Gary Soup

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Posted 29 April 2004 - 10:38 PM

Don't confuse sho-jo (virgin) 処女 with shoh-jo (girl) 少女.

Is this a commentary on modern Japanese society? I'll only speculate on which one has anything to do with eating.

I don't know what to say. I'd like a moderator or someone appropriate to delete any offensive remarks I have made.

Just my dumb idea of a joke, Hiroyuki. My post was probably more offensive than yours, but boys will be boys.

Edited by Gary Soup, 29 April 2004 - 10:39 PM.


#16 Hiroyuki

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Posted 29 April 2004 - 10:39 PM

You think Japanese is hard for pronunciation of short and long vowels? Try Hungarian...

I'm sorry, I don't know a word of Hungarian. :biggrin: :biggrin:
If you are fluent in it, could you be kind enough to give us some examples?

Oh, no, I remembered. This forum is not on languages! You don't have to do that! :biggrin:

#17 Pan

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Posted 29 April 2004 - 10:47 PM

I'm not fluent, anyway, just someone who struggled with rudimentary Hungarian while in Budapest for two weeks. I ate very well there, by the way, but that's off-topic for this thread. :biggrin:

#18 mcabr

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Posted 04 May 2004 - 06:15 PM

I would like to know something. What is tokoro ten? Is it made with yam noodles? The noodles are kind of glassier than the common yam cake that you see. I would also like to know what goes on them other than vinegar. I would like to make some so that my girlfriend can taste it. I just want to know if she likes it or not.

#19 Hiroyuki

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Posted 04 May 2004 - 07:24 PM

Tokoro ten is made from several types of seaweed that are collectively called tengusa 天草. It is almost always eaten with either vinegar-based sauce called san-bai-zu 三杯酢 or kuro-mitu 黒蜜, syrup made from brown sugar.
I found two interesting sites on tokoro ten.
Tokoroten coffee:
http://www.ryouri.co...2/0207p2m6.html
Tokoroten salad:
http://www.ryouri.co...2/0206p2m5.html
Sorry, that is about all I can give you in this thread. If you want to know more about it, I'd like you to start a new thread on it.
I hope you will please her with your tokoro ten dish. :biggrin:

#20 mcabr

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Posted 04 May 2004 - 08:03 PM

Tokoro ten is made from several types of seaweed that are collectively called tengusa 天草. It is almost always eaten with either vinegar-based sauce called san-bai-zu 三杯酢 or kuro-mitu 黒蜜, syrup made from brown sugar.
I found two interesting sites on tokoro ten.
Tokoroten coffee:
http://www.ryouri.co...2/0207p2m6.html
Tokoroten salad:
http://www.ryouri.co...2/0206p2m5.html
Sorry, that is about all I can give you in this thread. If you want to know more about it, I'd like you to start a new thread on it.
I hope you will please her with your tokoro ten dish. :biggrin:

Thanks for the info. So the second website says that I can buy it precut and everything. I am not really into the sweet stuff I want to vinegar type. I need to check if my local Japanese market has it. Thanks. :biggrin:

#21 torakris

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Posted 05 May 2004 - 03:36 PM

Tokoroten is most commonly eaten as a summer food, thus you might not find it in the Japanese markets for a little while longer. I have seen it once already in my area of Yokohama but by mid summer it should be everywhere.
I eat it with the vinegar dressing and karashi.

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#22 Sleepy_Dragon

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Posted 02 June 2004 - 09:53 PM

What are some things you could say to express how much you enjoyed a meal at a restaurant? What about in someone's home?

Usually I just say:

おいしかったです。ありがとうございます。(It was delicious. Thank you.)

What other things would be appropriate in different situations?

I also recall my Japanese teacher mentioning there are gendered versions too (including the specific word for delicious?), but I don't remember what they are.

Pat
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#23 Hiroyuki

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Posted 02 June 2004 - 09:59 PM

Thanks for a question, but I'm kind of busy right now. I'll answer your question within the next eight hours, OK?

#24 Sleepy_Dragon

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Posted 02 June 2004 - 10:13 PM

Of course, there is no rush, and thank you. :smile:

Pat
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#25 Palladion

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Posted 03 June 2004 - 02:29 AM

In a similar vein to Pat's question, I was once dining with a Japanese elementary school teacher and he told me to ask for water by saying 「お冷ください」 (ohiyakudasai), rather than whatever I was going to say (probably something like 「水ください」. He said that the ohiya version was cooler or something. Know anything about it?

#26 torakris

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Posted 03 June 2004 - 02:49 AM

When eating a meal in someone's house or in a small restaurant you should also finish the meal with gouchisosamadeshita.
From Daily Nihongo:

word for 4/27:

ごちそうさまでした
gochisousamadeshita (pronounced just like it looks)

This means "It was a feast" or simply is thanks for the meal. This should be said after every meal, to show thanks for the meal just eaten. As with itadakimasu this is said in group unison at school when everyone has finished.
This can be said to the person who prepared the meal (at a home or in a restaurant) to the person who paid for the meal, if you had been treated, and to no one in general as sort of an announcement that you have finshed eating. It is often shortened to gochisosama in more informal instances.




Oishii is often seen as the feminine way to say deliciouswhile umai is the more slang masculine way, and while you will tend to hear more men say oishii than women say umai, they are used by both sexes.

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#27 torakris

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Posted 03 June 2004 - 02:50 AM

In a similar vein to Pat's question, I was once dining with a Japanese elementary school teacher and he told me to ask for water by saying 「お冷ください」 (ohiyakudasai), rather than whatever I was going to say (probably something like 「水ください」. He said that the ohiya version was cooler or something. Know anything about it?

That is interesting I have never head that before....

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#28 Hiroyuki

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Posted 03 June 2004 - 02:52 AM

In a similar vein to Pat's question, I was once dining with a Japanese elementary school teacher and he told me to ask for water by saying 「お冷ください」 (ohiyakudasai), rather than whatever I was going to say (probably something like 「水ください」. He said that the ohiya version was cooler or something. Know anything about it?

お冷 (ohiya) means cold drinking water (in a container) or simply water. This is a shortened form of the word お冷やし (ohiyashi) used by women serving at the Court.

By the way, do you say 水ください? お水(を)ください sounds politer.

#29 Palladion

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Posted 03 June 2004 - 04:05 AM

No, I almost always say お水(を)ください. I just forgot the honorific when I typed it in. Though the rest of my spoken Japanese will occasionally come out in a bizzare mixture of polite and casual. Which can be rather embarassing, depending on who I'm talking to.

-------
Alex

#30 Hiroyuki

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Posted 03 June 2004 - 04:09 AM

>おいしかったです。ありがとうございます。

I can't think of any appropriate expressions right now, so let me just tell you how to intensify the expression you mentioned.

You can put

とても totemo
大変 (たいへん) taihen
とても totemo
とっても tottemo (emphatic and colloquial)
すごく sugoku (colloquial)
すっごく suggoku (emphatic and colloquial)

before

おいしかったです。 oishihata desu

And instead of

ありがとうございます, arigatou gozaimasu

you can also use the past form:

ありがとうございました arigatou gozaimashita

if you have finished the meal.

To be contined...

>What other things would be appropriate in different situations?

Sorry, Sleeply_Dragon, but could you be more specific? What situations?

***
いただきます (itadakimasu) and ごちそうさま(でした) (gochisousama (deshita)):
We usually don't say them when we eat alone, but when we eat with someone else, it is quite customary to say them. And, I usually say ごちそうさま (gochisousama) as I leave a restaurant. When you are invited to dinner, these expressions are NOT optional; they are required!

***
うまい (umai)
torakris has already explained it. Note that うまみ (umami) does not have such a connotation. Some people even say うめー! (umee- pronounced ooh-meh) :biggrin:

I can continue writing, but let's call it day. :biggrin:



EDITED by torakris to add the romaji of the Japanese for those who are unable to read Japanese.

Edited by torakris, 03 June 2004 - 03:16 PM.