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Pate de Fruit (Fruit Paste/Fruit Jellies)

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#61 Truffle Guy

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Posted 01 March 2006 - 11:31 AM

pate de fruit blackberry

500g puree, i like Boiron blackberry and 50 g sugar
- boil then add 20 g pectin
- Boil 3 min
- add sugar 480 g
- Boil 2min
- Add glucose 100 g
Boil 106 F
add 10ml citric acid, pour into mold.


I was just looking at your recipe and noted a possible anomaly. You say you boil the puree and sugar, then add the pectin. If you're not mixing sugar with your pectin that could be part of your problem - pectin on its own will clump in liquid and that may reduce it's effectiveness. Also, it looks to me like you may not be cooking long enough.

Try this recipe:

Blackberry Puree 500g
Sugar + Pectin 50g + 13g (thoroughly mixed dry)
Sugar 500g
Glucose 100g
Citric Acid 15 grams

Cook the puree until it reaches about 100F.
Add the sugar+pectin mixture and cook until the temp reaches about 190F.
Add the sugar in 2-3 batches, trying not to let the temp drop below 175F.
When the sugar is well incorporated, and the temp is back up to about 190F, add the glucose.
Now bring to a boil and let the temp rise to about 215-217F.
Cook at this temp until the mixture is very thick, but still pourable.
Turn off the heat and quickly add the citric acid.
Pour into molds.

At every stage you must stir, stir, stir.

Let me know how this works out.

Cheers,

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stscam has a good point about the pectin. Even mixed with the sugar I have to watch for clumping. I actually started using an immersion blender when adding and it seems to have really helped. After the pectin is blended, I use a whisk or wooden spoon. Also, when I first started I could never get the pate to set. I was not cooking it long enough, it isn't just the temperature....don't cook it on too high a temp but let it come up to temp over time. I've had no problems at all since I started taking longer and cooking until it looks right....you should see the pate forming small dollops on your whisk. I use a powdered apple pectin and it has never failed me....liquid just never worked well for me.

#62 stscam

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Posted 01 March 2006 - 12:16 PM

Truffle Guy also makes a good point I didn't touch upon - the heat setting on the range. On a commercial range the best setting seems to be just about medium. If you cook too hot you're liable to burn the fruit. Take time, and as I said, stir all the time.

And you will be able to see the change on your spoon - the mixture will start to get more gelified and cling to the spoon, rather than just dripping off.

T.G. - how big are the batches of pates you make? 1/2 sheet? Full sheet? Have you ever tried pouring into molds, or does your fruit set too quickly?

Cheers,

Steve
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#63 Truffle Guy

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Posted 01 March 2006 - 01:50 PM

Truffle Guy also makes a good point I didn't touch upon - the heat setting on the range. On a commercial range the best setting seems to be just about medium. If you cook too hot you're liable to burn the fruit. Take time, and as I said, stir all the time.

And you will be able to see the change on your spoon - the mixture will start to get more gelified and cling to the spoon, rather than just dripping off.

T.G. - how big are the batches of pates you make?  1/2 sheet? Full sheet? Have you ever tried pouring into molds, or does your fruit set too quickly?

Cheers,

Steve

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Typically it is about a half sheet. I have a couple large marble boards and I use confectionary bars to get the right height. Sometimes I do very thin pates which I then top with a ganache and enrobe, other times it is the thicker more traditional type of pate cut and rolled in sugar. Never used molds but thinking about it, not sure though as the more I see the cut pates the more I like them. S

Some of my pates set very quickly (Passion Fruit, Mango) while others seem to take longer (Morello Cherry, Blackberry) so the mold would work better with the types that take longer. I do typically add a little extra pectin just to make sure the fruit sets though which may be the reason it sets quickly. Also, I cook for a long time until the fruit has thickened and lost volume with the evaporation.

One thing I'm toying with is a layers of different fruits (strawberry and banana) for example...has anyone done that and was it difficult? The other thing is maybe doing a layer of pate with a thin layer of marshmallow and then ganache and enrobing it. Maybe too much going on but I've done Passion Fruit marshmallows and they had a great taste (You probably can tell now I like Passion Fruit).

I can't stress enough having the right ingredients to start. Powdered Apple Pectin really helped and also using quality purees. I've tried using fresh/canned fruits and it just doesn't get the same results. If you cook it long enough, it should thicken...if not just add a little more sugar/pectin mix. If it is too sweet from the sugar...try the citric acid to give it some zing.

#64 stscam

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Posted 01 March 2006 - 03:38 PM

The layer idea sounds neat. I'm thinking you'd need to pour one flavor, give it just a few minutes to start to cool and set, then pour the second right on top. They should then stick together like glue.

We make our batches on half sheet pans with a silpat and a pan extender (to give us straight sides). The size is perfect, as you know, for a kilo batch of puree.

We've had great success making our own purees. And because we don't pre-Pasteurize the fruit, there's tons more flavor. Up here in NW Montana the local summer fruit is just amazing. Our pate flavors are so pure you can taste the difference between an early season raspberry and a late season one. Other local fruit includes sweet and sour cherries, blueberries, chokecherries, red and black currants, gooseberries, and, of course, huckleberries (always wild - there is no way currently to cultivate hucks).

One thing that seems to make a difference is adding sugar to the pureed fruit to bring the level up to the ranges shown for Boiron purees. This gives us more consistency and more control over the final product. Typically we don't have to add more than about 10% sugar to the fruit to get it to the set point.

We then put a kilo of puree into an H pan lined with freezer paper, cover it with plastic wrap and work out all the air bubbles. We pop it into the freezer and once frozen, we remove the block of fruit from the pan, stick it in a bag and vacuum it. Our final product is a one kilo brick of long-life fruit, ready to defrost and go into the pate bowl without any further prep.

Thanks for sharing.

Cheers,

Steve
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#65 hotgemini77

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Posted 01 March 2006 - 10:29 PM

gee thanks.. a lot i am back at work tom and i will try the recommendations.
yes i do use apple pectin, liquid pectin wil just waste your time and hack your brain wondering what went wrong.
I forgot to say that i do add a little sugar to the pectin because it obviously clumps. I do use a medium heat.....i will let u know..what i get

#66 Lindacakes

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Posted 02 March 2006 - 04:03 PM

Does anyone have a recipe or advice on tracking down the elusive delicious fruit jelly?

I don't mean jelly in the jam sense . . .

The best ones I ever had were bought in Venice -- shaped like the fruit they tasted like, about the size of a small plum, covered with a very fine coating of very fine sugar, so that they appeared . . . frosted. Beautiful transparent colors. And subtle flavors, nothing easily identified.

I've searched the Internet for already made ones and came up with this --
http://www.payard.com/prodslist10.php

Not a candy many people go for, I suppose, but I love them.
I like to bake nice things. And then I eat them. Then I can bake some more.

#67 John DePaula

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Posted 02 March 2006 - 05:35 PM

Did you mean this?
Payard Pates de fruits

You can order this online and they'll deliver anywhere in the US.

This thread on Pates de fruits may be interesting (I'm sure there are others as well): Pates de fruits
John DePaula
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When asked “What are the secrets of good cooking? Escoffier replied, “There are three: butter, butter and butter.”

#68 Lkfarkas

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Posted 03 March 2006 - 05:46 AM

I *love* these things. Hmmm. I'm going to check out the thread. I'd like to make them too!
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#69 Lindacakes

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Posted 03 March 2006 - 11:23 AM

Thank you, John, the thread is very interesting. Your link to Payard doesn't work for me, but I'm sure it's the same thing -- I might go there this weekend and get some; just talking about them has made me hungry for them.

The "tablet" form, though, is nothing like the delightful miniature fruit shapes found in Venice, but I suppose this is the tantilization that gives us hope -- just knowing that the idea exists, we can strive for it.

Speaking of which, your chocolates are exquisite.
I like to bake nice things. And then I eat them. Then I can bake some more.

#70 Trishiad

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Posted 03 March 2006 - 12:01 PM

Lindacakes, you can get the fruit shaped molds from Chef Rubber

#71 duckduck

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Posted 03 March 2006 - 12:05 PM

Are you looking to buy them or make them? I have a recipe but I haven't found the money for a flexpan for making the flower shaped ones. They've been on my long to do list.
Pamela Wilkinson
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#72 Lindacakes

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Posted 03 March 2006 - 05:30 PM

Ah, Chef Rubber, well, that gives a person ideas, all sorts of ideas.

I was thinking make, but truly, I'd prefer to buy.

But I get these ideas in my head, of how it could be. I was disappointed to go to the chocolate show. In my mind, there were fountains of chocolate burbling away, and everything a deep mysterious dark brown, and Sophia Loren-like women with mesmeric cleavage would offer you trays of the most delicate and exquisite chocolates.

And, of course, it wasn't like that at all.

Flower shaped fruit jellies would be beautiful.
I like to bake nice things. And then I eat them. Then I can bake some more.

#73 ghost

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Posted 03 March 2006 - 10:49 PM

Forgive my odd style of typing up a recipe, but you should be able to follow it. I believe this makes about 240, 1 square inch jellies.

Strawberry Jellies

1. 6 quart strained strawberry puree
2. 13 ounces strained apple juice
3. 1 cup glucose
4. 7 ½ cups sugar
5. ¾ cups sugar
6. 5 tablespoons pectin powder
7. 1 cups sugar
8. 1 teaspoon citric acid

Combine ingredients 1, 2, 3, 4 and bring to a boil.

Combine ingredients 5 and 6 in a bowl and temper with some of the hot liquid. Whisk the tempered pectin mixture into the remaining puree. Boil for 1 minute.

Take 2 half-sheet pans and pour hot puree onto the pans and let cool. Cut the hardened jellies into 1 square inch pieces. Roll the jellies in a mixture of ingredients 7 and 8.
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#74 duckduck

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Posted 04 March 2006 - 12:49 PM

Demarle has a cute flower mold and the recipe is in their book for the perfect amount to fill their pan. It's the one I keep going back to as the one on the top of my wish list. It might be fun to make custom molds for it too.
Pamela Wilkinson
www.portlandfood.org
Life is a rush into the unknown. You can duck down and hope nothing hits you, or you can stand tall, show it your teeth and say "Dish it up, Baby, and don't skimp on the jalapeños."

#75 Ke Kau

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Posted 22 March 2006 - 11:36 AM

Hello all! I've been a long time reader of the forums but this is the first time I've ever posted. I'd like to take a moment before I get into my question to say thank you to everyone who participates in this forum. Your willingness to share your experiences is greatly appreciated. I only hope that some day I wil be able to offer the same wisdom and energy I've gleamed from reading these pages. Thank you again. Now to the question:

I'm working with a pate de fruit recipe from the Jean Pierre Wybauw book and it states in the instructions to cook to 225 F. I cooked and cooked but never got above 205 F. Although, in other recipes I have read, it says to cook till "stringy" or "pearls on a whisk" which I definately went past. I also kept stirring the puree (is this right?) for fear of scorching and I am afraid that I did not achieve that Pate de fruit consistency I so love. The jelly set fine, despite the lower cooking temperature and the fact I forgot to add the citric acid solution at the end. I'm assuming the mango puree contained enough acid to set the pectin. I'm using a pate de fruit pectin I purchased form chef rubber and I used 25 g for 1 k of puree and 1100 g of sugar with 200 g of corn syrup.

Another consideration is my higher altitude (Eugene, OR). I'm unsure of the exact calculations for altitude temperature conversions.

Any help is appreciated.

Shane Tracey

#76 Patrick S

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Posted 22 March 2006 - 12:47 PM

Another consideration is my higher altitude (Eugene, OR). I'm unsure of the exact calculations for altitude temperature conversions.

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The "official" altitude of Eugene is 130 meters asl. The boiling point of water at 130 meters is 210.6F/99.27C. You'd have to be about 1km asl before the boiling point would be 205. Did your fruit mixture ever boil?
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#77 nightscotsman

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Posted 22 March 2006 - 12:59 PM

Hmm... sounds like a thermometer issue. What kind of thermometer are you using?

#78 Ke Kau

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Posted 22 March 2006 - 01:41 PM

Hmm... sounds like a thermometer issue. What kind of thermometer are you using?

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I'm using a laser thermometer from Thermoworks. Fairly reliable piece of equipment. The battery power was low though. That might have been my problem.

In response to the other post:

The mixture did boil. I will replace the batteries and try again tonight.

Shane

#79 SweetSide

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Posted 22 March 2006 - 02:07 PM

Hmm... sounds like a thermometer issue. What kind of thermometer are you using?

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I'm using a laser thermometer from Thermoworks. Fairly reliable piece of equipment. The battery power was low though. That might have been my problem.

In response to the other post:

The mixture did boil. I will replace the batteries and try again tonight.

Shane

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Laser as in infrared? There is another thread out HERE that discusses the use of infrared thermometers and use in sugar work. In addition to your batteries, that may be part of the problem.
Cheryl, The Sweet Side

#80 John DePaula

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Posted 22 March 2006 - 02:58 PM

Hmm... sounds like a thermometer issue. What kind of thermometer are you using?

View Post

I'm using a laser thermometer from Thermoworks. Fairly reliable piece of equipment. The battery power was low though. That might have been my problem.
Shane

View Post

Ouch! I think these aren't recommended for sugar work (ironically) because of the difference in surface temp/internal temp. I think someone recommended the Taylor Classic Candy Thermometer in another thread.
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#81 stscam

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Posted 22 March 2006 - 03:53 PM

I'm working with a pate de fruit recipe from the Jean Pierre Wybauw book and it states in the instructions to cook to 225 F.  I cooked and cooked but never got above 205 F.  Although, in other recipes I have read, it says to cook till "stringy" or "pearls on a whisk" which I definately went past.  I also kept stirring the puree (is this right?) for fear of scorching and I am afraid that I did not achieve that  Pate de fruit consistency I so love.  The jelly set fine, despite the lower cooking temperature and the fact I forgot to add the citric acid solution at the end.  I'm assuming the mango puree contained enough acid to set the pectin.  I'm using a pate de fruit pectin I purchased form chef rubber and I used 25 g for 1 k of puree and 1100 g of sugar with 200 g of corn syrup. 

View Post


Shane, your recipe seems right. At what point in the process does Wybauw tell you add the pectin? Some recipes add it near the start, some near the finish.

The most consistent formulas I've found come from the Boirons Purees website. They add the pectin early on.

We now use a refractometer to measure Brix, but used to just measure the temps cited in the brochure.

We used (and still use for the first few minutes of cooking the fruit) a $20-30 two-piece digital probe thermometer. We got a cheap "bulldog" clamp at Staples which lets us leave the probe in the mixture, even while stirring. We can constantly monitor the temp this way.

Some fruits seem to resist going higher than 205-210F without burning. But as long as the stuff seems like it's beginning to gel then it'll probably turn out all right.

And don't stop stirring for more than a few seconds at a time.

Good luck!

Cheers,

Steve

Edited by stscam, 22 March 2006 - 03:53 PM.

Steve Smith
Glacier Country

#82 Ke Kau

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Posted 22 March 2006 - 05:53 PM

I'm working with a pate de fruit recipe from the Jean Pierre Wybauw book and it states in the instructions to cook to 225 F.  I cooked and cooked but never got above 205 F.  Although, in other recipes I have read, it says to cook till "stringy" or "pearls on a whisk" which I definately went past.   I also kept stirring the puree (is this right?) for fear of scorching and I am afraid that I did not achieve that  Pate de fruit consistency I so love.  The jelly set fine, despite the lower cooking temperature and the fact I forgot to add the citric acid solution at the end.  I'm assuming the mango puree contained enough acid to set the pectin.  I'm using a pate de fruit pectin I purchased form chef rubber and I used 25 g for 1 k of puree and 1100 g of sugar with 200 g of corn syrup. 

View Post


Shane, your recipe seems right. At what point in the process does Wybauw tell you add the pectin? Some recipes add it near the start, some near the finish.

The most consistent formulas I've found come from the Boirons Purees website. They add the pectin early on.

We now use a refractometer to measure Brix, but used to just measure the temps cited in the brochure.

We used (and still use for the first few minutes of cooking the fruit) a $20-30 two-piece digital probe thermometer. We got a cheap "bulldog" clamp at Staples which lets us leave the probe in the mixture, even while stirring. We can constantly monitor the temp this way.

Some fruits seem to resist going higher than 205-210F without burning. But as long as the stuff seems like it's beginning to gel then it'll probably turn out all right.

And don't stop stirring for more than a few seconds at a time.

Good luck!

Cheers,

Steve

View Post



Thanks Steve. The recipe dictates adding the pectin to a quantity of 500g puree. And adding that portion to the rest of the puree and sugar. Is there a scientific reasoning behind this? And what woud the outcome be adding the pectin at the end? Also, when adding citric acid solution, I assume it is added at the end.....What would be the chemical changes if it were added in the beginning versus the end?

You say some fruits resist cooking higher than 205-210? Which fruits in your experience? What is the reasoning behind this phenomenon?

Thanks,

Shane

#83 boulak

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Posted 22 March 2006 - 07:12 PM

Brother Shane,
Good to see you contributing to egullet. Your skill, knowledge, drive, and expertise will fit in well. Now if you'd just harness that energy towards.................well, bread for example.

Best regards,
Mitch

#84 stscam

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Posted 23 March 2006 - 11:04 AM

[/quote]The recipe dictates adding the pectin to a quantity of 500g puree. And adding that portion to the rest of the puree and sugar. Is there a scientific reasoning behind this? And what woud the outcome be adding the pectin at the end? Also, when adding citric acid solution, I assume it is added at the end.....What would be the chemical changes if it were added in the beginning versus the end?

You say some fruits resist cooking higher than 205-210? Which fruits in your experience? What is the reasoning behind this phenomenon?

View Post

[/quote]


When I got home last night I checked my Wybauw and saw that he mixes his pectin/sugar into half the the puree. I'm not sure why, but our method is not much different. Our formula calls for heating 1000g of puree to about 100F, then adding the pectin/sugar. When the mixture reaches 190F (it's on the boil now) we begin to add the rest of the sugar, in 4-5 portions. When it start boiling again we add the glucose/corn syrup. At this point we remove the digital probe and go the rest of the way with the refractometer. When we hit 72-75 Brix we turn the heat off and add the citric acid. Adding the acid any earlier would mitigate its effectiveness.

I'm kind of a hands-on guy, and must confess I don't always understand the science behind these processes. Thus, I can't tell you, technically, what happens chemically if you add the pectin late. LeNotre calls for this technique. What I can say is that the method outlined above works well and consistently for us and after a long period of abject failures a couple of years ago, I'm not too inclined to gamble with our current successes.

As for fruits that resist higher temps - strawberries would be at the top of my list. I should add here that all our pates are made with fresh, local fruit that we puree ourselves. Fresh Strawbs require close, close attention, as they seem to thicken up more quickly than other fruits, and are prone to burning more easily. Peaches have been a problem, and some melons. Sorry, but I don't why.

Good luck. Keep us posted.

Cheers,

Steve
Steve Smith
Glacier Country

#85 Ke Kau

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Posted 23 March 2006 - 12:34 PM

[quote name='stscam' date='Mar 23 2006, 11:04 AM']
[/quote]The recipe dictates adding the pectin to a quantity of 500g puree. And adding that portion to the rest of the puree and sugar. Is there a scientific reasoning behind this? And what woud the outcome be adding the pectin at the end? Also, when adding citric acid solution, I assume it is added at the end.....What would be the chemical changes if it were added in the beginning versus the end?

You say some fruits resist cooking higher than 205-210? Which fruits in your experience? What is the reasoning behind this phenomenon?

View Post

[/quote]


When I got home last night I checked my Wybauw and saw that he mixes his pectin/sugar into half the the puree. I'm not sure why, but our method is not much different. Our formula calls for heating 1000g of puree to about 100F, then adding the pectin/sugar. When the mixture reaches 190F (it's on the boil now) we begin to add the rest of the sugar, in 4-5 portions. When it start boiling again we add the glucose/corn syrup. At this point we remove the digital probe and go the rest of the way with the refractometer. When we hit 72-75 Brix we turn the heat off and add the citric acid. Adding the acid any earlier would mitigate its effectiveness.

I'm kind of a hands-on guy, and must confess I don't always understand the science behind these processes. Thus, I can't tell you, technically, what happens chemically if you add the pectin late. LeNotre calls for this technique. What I can say is that the method outlined above works well and consistently for us and after a long period of abject failures a couple of years ago, I'm not too inclined to gamble with our current successes.

As for fruits that resist higher temps - strawberries would be at the top of my list. I should add here that all our pates are made with fresh, local fruit that we puree ourselves. Fresh Strawbs require close, close attention, as they seem to thicken up more quickly than other fruits, and are prone to burning more easily. Peaches have been a problem, and some melons. Sorry, but I don't why.

Good luck. Keep us posted.

Cheers,

Steve

View Post

[/quote]


Last night I made a batch of Moro Blood Orange and Meyer Lemon. Both cooked nicely to 225. I think since both batches consisted mainly of juice I didn't have any problems. :raz: Thanks for all your input.

Shane

#86 NutMeg

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Posted 24 March 2006 - 02:13 AM

Just to add another 2 cents, when I make it, I warm the puree, then add the pectin (mixed with about a quarter of the sugar) - when that boils, I add the sugar and glucose. I cook up to about 215, then start testing on a plate that's been in the freezer. I put a drop on the plate, stick it back in the freezer for a minute, then touch it - when it's firm and no longer (or very barely) sticky to the touch, it's done. Also, you have to stir constantly or risk scorching. I add the citric acid once it's off the heat. Different fruits are done at different temps, so the plate trick really works.
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#87 McAuliflower

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Posted 26 March 2006 - 12:15 PM

When makng this with just juice- no fruit puree (have blood orange juice on hand), do the amounts of sugar/pectin change significantly?

looking to make up a small batch at home...
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#88 Ke Kau

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Posted 26 March 2006 - 02:58 PM

When makng this with just juice- no fruit puree (have blood orange juice on hand), do the amounts of sugar/pectin change significantly?

looking to make up a small batch at home...

View Post


The batch I made came out just fine with no changes in the recipe. I think the recipe I gave you would have a sufficient amount of pectin from the apricots to gel.

In general I believe a standard recipe without apricots or apples would be equal portions of fruit pulp (or juice) to sugar. As for pectin I'm not sure what a standard percentage would be.

#89 Truffle Guy

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Posted 26 March 2006 - 06:18 PM

When makng this with just juice- no fruit puree (have blood orange juice on hand), do the amounts of sugar/pectin change significantly?

looking to make up a small batch at home...

View Post



You might want to watch the amount of sugar in the juice and add less if it is too sweet. Most of the juices I've tried have been sweeter than purees. Other than that everything should work fine.

#90 McAuliflower

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Posted 26 March 2006 - 07:21 PM

thanks for all the input- off to the kitchen...
"A gourmet who thinks of calories is like a tart who looks at her watch." --JB
Brownie Points- Culinary Notebook





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