164 replies to this topic

[tanabutler]

I'd still like to hear from anyone who's used (or even knows anyone who's used) the Konika Minolta Dimage A1.  Unfortunately I'm not in a location where I can test drive any of these cameras, but I am going to the United States in a few weeks and would like to order one shipped to my destination so that I can pick it up there when I arrive.  My current camera is an Olympus D-340L, an old war horse that is about to bite the dust, and I'm ready to do a big upgrade.

I compared that camera with a couple more at DPReview.com, based on an article in this month's Outdoor Photography magazine (p. 64). It did not fare as well as the Canon Powershot Pro1 eight megapixel or the Nikon Coolpix 8700--for my needs and desires. (I am thrilled to report that my chef/client for the farm dinners bought the Canon Pro1 for me. I expect it to arrive on Monday. Be still, my beating heart.)

The obvious superiority is that the Minolta is only five megapixels, and both Canon and Nikon are eight.

In addition to the exquisite lens, it's got a macro of 3 centimeters. So I can photograph lobster nostrils, if I want. It'll be great for food photography.

I also purchased an extra 512MB extra fast memory card. I will accessorize gradually with filters and such; the next piece of business is a new hard drive for extra storage.

One thing I know: I never want to own a camera that doesn't have (as the Canon and Nikon both do) the viewfinder that flips open and twists around. It's invaluable for candid shots.

Other things about the Canon that are great:

1) Record voice annotation: allows for a voice annotation, like a verbal caption, with each photo, of a WAV file up to 60 seconds long.
2) Like all Powershot cameras, it has a "stitch assist" mode that enables panoramic shots. Sample panorama of UCSC's Life Labs garden classroom taken last weekend. (Note: that was taken on my Canon G1 Powershot. It's 2780x645 pixels, which is greatly reduced from the original size.) Canon has superior software, I think.
3) ISO of 50, 100, 200 and 400. (The Minolta has 800, but only goes down to 100.)
4) Wireless remote.
5) 235,000 LCD pixels on its 2" screen (double that of the Minolta).
6) Playback zoom up to 10x

I will be keeping my G1, too. It's a great camera for web work. The Pro1 is going to be used to produce a book, I think.

And as far as using a flash on food goes: I won't do it. I think it's unattractive and unnatural-looking. Before I had my tabletop tripod, I would get very creative about using things to stabilize the camera. That's how I got the shots at Amma that Suvir liked so much.

[robyn]

Robyn, the detail in the pot looks really wonderful.  One thing I might have done is try a few more shots while I was at it, adjusting the camera position to see if I could eliminate the reflection of the flourescent light.  If I could not, I would have slightly rotated the handle to follow the same line as the reflection, to give the whole a formal continuity.  But really the food looks simply amazing, a great shot.  I'm sure he'll be pleased with that too. 

------------------------------------------------------------------------

For this one, using the close up setting is really key because it affects the depth of field.  The edge of the glass was in focus, but the food was not.  Turn off the flash, if you can, it just does not add to a close up photo because the light meter that reads for intensity in your camera isn't sensitive enough.  If it's just too dark, you might try putting a napkin over the flash or taping over it to soften the glare and reflections.  Compositionally, the crease of the tablecloth is distracting in this photo.  It is a detail you can try and eliminate by positioning the dish.  If your plate had a regular shape, the sharp crease of the cloth might  not be as much as an issue, or even add to the overall composition.  But that dish is all about the shape of the plate in that photo.  You might as well cut the noise as much as possible. 

Hope that helps for next time.

Thanks for the advice. I wasn't aware of the "Omenesque" quality of the light reflection when I was shooting . Guess I was concentrating too much on the food. I think the general quality (apart from the composition) was high because I was staging the shoots in daylight.

As for the second shot - I think it's just really hard shooting in a dark restaurant with a flash. I think your suggestions are good ones for shooting in that type of environment - but apart from remembering to use the "close-up" feature - I'm not sure I could handle doing everything necessary to get a good shot without feeling very self-conscious in a fine dining setting (that's just me - the mileage of other people may vary - as may the mileage of the people eating next to them!). So perhaps I had best leave most of this work to the professionals - who generally photograph food under the conditions I had for the first photo.

I'll note that the chef for the first photo was wonderful when I asked about taking pictures at some time other than the dinner hour. I doubt a 3 star Michelin chef would be as generous with his time - but I think that leaves plenty of chefs in the world who would be willing to work even with an amateur if the photos will be published anywhere.

By the way - I agree about getting a big memory card (not necessarily the maximum - just a big one) - so you can shoot photos the way pros do - click click click click click. Although I wouldn't feel comfortable doing that at dinner - I'm entirely comfortable doing it in other settings. I really like to do animals - and my specialty these days is gators :



Robyn

[tanabutler]

Is that a baby's leg in that gator's mouth?!

Word of advice to those seeking digital cameras: shop carefully for accessories. You may find a great price at, say, MySimon or PriceGrabber, but the unethical creeps who own the joint might be really sticking you with the packages they offer, as well as the shipping. Beware the bad reputations as listed at PriceGrabber. It can really make a difference.

And I wouldn't do business with BuyDig.com with a gun to my head. The lying salesman tried to tell me that the camera didn't come with a warranty, but that it cost extra. I called his manager and told him, "That liar needs a public, bare-bottomed spanking." He asked me to repeat that. I did. The roaring laughter told me that he'd put me on speaker phone in a roomful of people.

Be very very wary of being upsold unnecessary or exorbitantly-priced items.

I bought the Pro1 at one store, and the carrying case and extra memory at another. All told, I got everything for around $950, which is a spectacular value.

Edited by tanabutler, 12 June 2004 - 04:54 PM.

[Richard Kilgore]

Glad you brought up warranties. I got conflicting information from two dealers (both brick & mortar), and ended up buying an add-on warantee. My understanding from both is that most digital camera problems are due to dropping it...and the manufacturer's warantee doesn't cover that. So I spent the extra bucks to protect me from myself.

I don't know that I will use them, but the dealer I bought from also offers a fairly good selection of free courses after the sale (something they didn't even bother to tell me until they were putting everything in a bag for me to walk out the door). So it's worth looking carefully at your needs and the whole customer service package that comes with the camera. I may have saved a couple of bucks on the memory card by shopping around, but I didn't consider that to be a terribly big deal and didn't want to spend more time on it at that point.

[balmagowry]

Another good reason for having a couple of good-size memory cards and a reader - makes a dandy little data schlepping kit. I used to spend a lot of time at other people's computers, and it's years since I stopped carrying data on disk. I always have a 128MB CF card in my camera (hey, back then that was as big as they made 'em), but I have a couple more that live in my bag or my pocket where they can be drafted into service at a moment's notice to hold either more photos or (via one of those tiny USB readers) whatever other big chunk of data I may need to copy from point A to point B. Way more versatile and practical than those little USB drives.

[esperanza]

I compared that camera with a couple more at DPReview.com, based on an article in this month's Outdoor Photography magazine (p. 64). It did not fare as well as the Canon Powershot Pro1 eight megapixel or the Nikon Coolpix 8700--for my needs and desires.

All the information you posted has been really helpful--thanks a lot. I went to several online reviewers and investigated the pros and cons of the Canon Powershot Pro1 as compared to the Minolta Dimage A1. For my needs and desires I think it's still going to be the Minolta, but I can sure see why you picked the Canon. I don't need the extra 3 megapixels in the Canon, and I can pick out some great accessories or another big chunk of memory with the money I'd be spending on the Canon vs the Minolta.

Now on the other hand, if you could get your client to pop for two cameras...

Edited by esperanza, 12 June 2004 - 10:19 PM.

[fifi]

I just thought of something.

When taking pictures in a restaurant, has anyone ever thought about adding light via one of those little LED flashlights? I have a single LED one on my key ring and a purse size flashlight with two LEDs. The light is very white and color temperature could probably be handled with the white balance. That would certainly be less intrusinve than a flash.

Another subject...

My dream camera is similar to an SLR in that I can change lenses. I want quite a bit of optical zoom for my "nature" shots. 4 or so mp is probably all I would need. It would have an internal memory sufficient so that I could take ten or so shots before I would have to write to the little CD. (Expensive storage devices need not apply.) I want a macro mode that lets me look down the lobster's nostrils. And it has to be capable of amazing low light shots.

Let me know.

[FaustianBargain]

I compared that camera with a couple more at DPReview.com, based on an article in this month's Outdoor Photography magazine (p. 64). It did not fare as well as the Canon Powershot Pro1 eight megapixel or the Nikon Coolpix 8700--for my needs and desires.

All the information you posted has been really helpful--thanks a lot. I went to several online reviewers and investigated the pros and cons of the Canon Powershot Pro1 as compared to the Minolta Dimage A1. For my needs and desires I think it's still going to be the Minolta, but I can sure see why you picked the Canon. I don't need the extra 3 megapixels in the Canon, and I can pick out some great accessories or another big chunk of memory with the money I'd be spending on the Canon vs the Minolta.

Now on the other hand, if you could get your client to pop for two cameras...

Canon Pro1(i'd get this if i can cough up the cash) is much better than minolta..the 'pro' in the pro1 is significant...it has a L-series lens..which is much superior glass than the other canon lenses...truly PRO lens...as good as it gets in the p&s range...and very very reasonable price

you cant beat the prices at b&h..b&h store in nyc or at their online store @ www.bhphotovideo.com ....if you buy online, there is no tax..but you kinda pay for the shipping and handling costs..it comes up to about the same amount...if you live outside the us..well..you are just screwed...b&h prices are cheaper than even hong kong or japanese camera outlets, afaik

[tanabutler]

I used PriceGrabber and MySimon to price the camera and accessories. I can't remember where I actually bought the camera, but I got the memory and case at NewEgg.com.

[andiesenji]

Another good reason for having a couple of good-size memory cards and a reader - makes a dandy little data schlepping kit. I used to spend a lot of time at other people's computers, and it's years since I stopped carrying data on disk. I always have a 128MB CF card in my camera (hey, back then that was as big as they made 'em), but I have a couple more that live in my bag or my pocket where they can be drafted into service at a moment's notice to hold either more photos or (via one of those tiny USB readers) whatever other big chunk of data I may need to copy from point A to point B. Way more versatile and practical than those little USB drives.

You hit the nail on the head. If I am going to be away for some time and do not want to haul around my powerbook, I need to download the pics so I can review them without going blind.

I have a FlashTrax with a 3.5 in screen which is much easier to view than the one in the camera.
I have a Mac and this one is plug and play with it.


It makes it unnecessary to carry a bunch of cards around, this fits in my pocket and it takes just a few seconds to download the pics from the card.
It also means that other people can look at the photos I have downloaded while I continue shooting.

Edited by andiesenji, 13 June 2004 - 12:45 PM.

[Barb48]

I have the predecessor to that Canon PowerShot S series camera and I'm quite happy with it. The next series up in cameras, which my dad has (A80 I believe), has many more features if you want to play around with the manual features a lot. But the PowerShot S series is small, it's reliable, the compact flash cards it uses are easy to find and the readers for them are cheap. (I recommend a 128 or 256 MB card...I have one of each and a reader for those cards instead of plugging your camera into the computer--much much better uploading, especially on a Mac.)

SML

Now this is our Garden Railroad in our backyard that WAS taken with the Canon PowerShot series...A70.

http://images.egulle...15738/i8386.jpg

Pretty good if I say so myself...I'm wondering now why we bought the upgrade...

[balmagowry]

You hit the nail on the head.  If I am going to be away for some time and do not want to haul around my powerbook, I need to download the pics so I can review them without going blind.

Yes - but not just photos! I use a CF card to carry and/or back up ALL my current data. I do database design and web design for some of my clients; I can carry all that work-in-progress stuff, plus software upgrades, plus the entire MS of (and research materials for) whatever book or series of articles or... whatever... I happen to be writing, on one little CF card. All this AND it's compatible with my camera. One data standard, no moving parts, no Mac vs PC issues, no which-thing-works-with-which to worry about. Life is good.

[tanabutler]

Another good reason for having a couple of good-size memory cards and a reader - makes a dandy little data schlepping kit. I used to spend a lot of time at other people's computers, and it's years since I stopped carrying data on disk. I always have a 128MB CF card in my camera (hey, back then that was as big as they made 'em), but I have a couple more that live in my bag or my pocket where they can be drafted into service at a moment's notice to hold either more photos or (via one of those tiny USB readers) whatever other big chunk of data I may need to copy from point A to point B. Way more versatile and practical than those little USB drives.

You hit the nail on the head. If I am going to be away for some time and do not want to haul around my powerbook, I need to download the pics so I can review them without going blind.

I have a FlashTrax with a 3.5 in screen which is much easier to view than the one in the camera.
I have a Mac and this one is plug and play with it.


It makes it unnecessary to carry a bunch of cards around, this fits in my pocket and it takes just a few seconds to download the pics from the card.
It also means that other people can look at the photos I have downloaded while I continue shooting.

How much did that little FlashTrac dooflotchit cost?

[balmagowry]

I googled it and got the unwelcome answer: if you have to ask, you can't afford it.

[NWsFirst]

Resist the urge to buy a camera based solely [or primarily] on megapixel rating. It's a system: if the optics are crap what you'll have are awful-looking photos with enough resolution to make great 16 x 20s. Great. Consider how you'll use the camera -- will you be making large prints (greater than 4 x 6")? Deploying on websites?

Choose a camera that fits your hands. I've played with some great digital cameras that took nice, sharp photos -- but were quite difficult to use simply because they were too small (I feel the same way about tiny phones).

Internet pricing is likely to be better than retail shop -- but consider the value of being able to handle the camera, take a few photos, decide whether the way it works is intuitive to you. Like a good Chef's knife, others' recommendations are helpful... but it is going to live in your hand, ultimately.

[esperanza]

andiesenji Posted on Jun 13 2004, 12:16 PM

I have a FlashTrax with a 3.5 in screen which is much easier to view than the one in the camera.
I have a Mac and this one is plug and play with it.

WHOA! This thing is incredible--but yikes, the price!

Balmagowry, we could split one. But there would probably be a custody battle.

[mongo_jones]

Internet pricing is likely to be better than retail shop -- but consider the value of being able to handle the camera, take a few photos, decide whether the way it works is intuitive to you. Like a good Chef's knife, others' recommendations are helpful... but it is going to live in your hand, ultimately.

handle in store, buy online

[andiesenji]

What you might do is check with a computer club or users group in you area and see if they have information on digital photography groups near you.

Here in the Antelope Valley we have a very active Mac club (which I belong to) and we share speakers with the PC club and they have an active Digital photography group.

We take our cameras and accessory gadgets to the meetings and share information. That way you can get a hands-on feel for the camera in which you are interested because there probably is someone in the group that has what you want to see.

Usually the members get email bulletins about upcoming meetings and if you contact the person who maintains their website, they will give tell members to bring their photo equipment to the meeting.
I don't know of any clubs that do not have an open-door policy and welcome visitors. It is usually a nominal membership fee which you get back one way or another.

Our club maintains a website which includes some very useful links. Here is the page with links to FREE online Photoshop tips and tutorials.
http://www.cyesis.or...op_websites.htm
we are an official Apple User Group.

Here is one list of user groups maintained by one organization.
http://www.apcug.net.../user_sites.htm

This is probably way more information than you want but perhaps it can help.

[andiesenji]

andiesenji Posted on Jun 13 2004, 12:16 PM
I have a FlashTrax with a 3.5 in screen which is much easier to view than

WHOA! This thing is incredible--but yikes, the price!

I can write it off as part of my business. I do pastel portraits of dogs (and some other animals) and have to know for sure that I have good photos to use as a reference when I start the painting.
I can show my clients several views of the dog from different angles and they can choose the one they think looks most like the dog. It saves a lot of problems later on.

[tanabutler]

This is probably way more information than you want but perhaps it can help.

Are you kiddin' me? It's great information.

As for me, I'm willing to gamble that the Pro1 will feel every bit as substantial in my hands as its little cousin, the G1, did when I first held it.

In other words, I'm expecting my 22-ounce baby to arrive tomorrow.

[bleudauvergne]

Internet pricing is likely to be better than retail shop -- but consider the value of being able to handle the camera, take a few photos, decide whether the way it works is intuitive to you. Like a good Chef's knife, others' recommendations are helpful... but it is going to live in your hand, ultimately.

handle in store, buy online

I second Mongo's advice

[robyn]

Is that a baby's leg in that gator's mouth?!

Nope - it's a half chicken - raw. The gators at the zoo eat chickens - the gators at the Alligator Farm eat nutria. They eat them bones and all - and you get an idea of their massive jaw strength when you hear them chomping down on the food. Robyn

[robyn]

handle in store, buy online

I don't agree. When I bought my digital camera - I didn't know anything about digital cameras or photography. And I spent quite a few hours on multiple trips in Best Buy. The sales people there (who don't work on commission) took a lot of time explaining things to me - and answering dozens of questions. And they were pretty much correct in everything they told me.

So should I take up hours of a store's time and shop on line just to save a few dollars? No - because if I did that - and everyone else did that - then maybe 10 years down the road - there won't be any place for me to go where I can touch and feel something before I buy it - a place where I can have my questions about the next electronic gizmo I want to buy answered.

As someone who *has* to buy certain things on line (like shoes - because I wear a small size that isn't sold where I live) - I can tell you that being forced to buy things on line isn't any fun at all. Robyn

[tanabutler]

Is that a baby's leg in that gator's mouth?!

Nope - it's a half chicken - raw. The gators at the zoo eat chickens - the gators at the Alligator Farm eat nutria. They eat them bones and all - and you get an idea of their massive jaw strength when you hear them chomping down on the food. Robyn

Oh, Lord, I had hoped you'd know I was kidding.

But I'm glad to know its identity, regardless.

We haven't discussed adjunct software to use with digital photography, but I am a big fan of Photoshop.

[Richard Kilgore]

I agree with Robyn. That's one of the reasons why I was willing to pay a small amount more to buy from the camera store.

[Ellen Shapiro]

There's so much good information on this thread, I don't want to detract from it. Let me offer a few general observations, though. I've taken many, many photography courses (and plan to keep taking them forever), owned half a dozen digital cameras and many more film cameras than that, and have done all sorts of photography from photojournalism to portraiture to the kinds of documentary snapshots that are prevalent on eGullet, and there are a few things I've learned.

I find that many people tend to overemphasize equipment. One thing I can say for sure: if you are a careful photographer and have taken the time to learn the basics, you can take a good photograph with any camera, be it a disposable plastic camera from Rite-Aid, the little digital PenCam, a Canon D60 digital SLR, my Leica R7, or a Hasselblad. And if you are a sloppy photographer who stubbornly refuses to learn from your mistakes, you will never take a good photograph no matter how many tens of thousands of dollars of camera equipment you have. Much of the time, an uncaring photographer will in fact get better photos from a middle-market point-and-shoot than from a professional rig, because control is taken away and the computer chips are "smarter" than so many photographers.

I had a show in Florida last year where I displayed 24 photos from my various trips to Nepal. There was one photo that was clearly best in show. It was the one everybody gravitated to. Later, checking my notes, I found out that 23 of my photos had been taken with my Leica R7, and that the best one had been taken with my Yashica T4 Super-D, which is a cheap point-and-shoot camera with the world's tiniest built-in flash that costs about as much as a replacement shoulder strap for my Leica. I was talking to a National Geographic photographer down there who told me that in his photo essay on sailboats the best photo in the piece was taken not by him with his Hasselblad but rather by one of the sailboat crew with a disposable point-and-shoot. It happens.

The basics of composition and light are the same for all cameras, film or digital, regardless of price. You will be better served by learning those basics than by all the reading you can do in dpreview and cnet. There are many books and resources for that kind of learning though there is no substitute for review of your work by skilled instructors.

The intended purpose of photographs is relevant to the purchasing decision but not the be-all-end-all of photography. It's mostly about the comfort zone. You won't find many professional newspaper photojournalists these days using less than a Canon 10D with a 440EX flash and a 1.4 lens but that doesn't mean you can't take a newspaper-quality photo with a lot less camera, a lot less lens, and a lot less or no flash. Back before I (or most individuals without corporate backing) could afford a DSLR, I shot more than 50 newspaper photos with a 3.1 megapixel Kodak DC4800. Some of those were printed at half-page size on section front pages. Every single camera mentioned on this thread is better than my DC4800 was.

Something else I think is worth noting: in photography there are very few single right answers. There are some technical mistakes you can make so there are plenty of wrong answers. But when it comes to right answers you will usually find a range. In food photography you will find beautiful work done with natural light, with studio lights, and with flash. The quality of your work will come more from proper use of whatever light source you choose than from your choice of light source. Especially in the learning phase -- and aren't we all in that phase? -- don't lock yourself into rules. Instead, experiment.

And then conduct honest review of your work. It is the only way to learn. Be ruthless with yourself and have others be ruthless with you too. And then when you pick photos to share with an audience, share only your best.

But know where to draw the line. Those who are not full-time professionals and even most of those who are do not have infinite time to take each photograph. Once in awhile you get a shot that you can't think of any way to improve; it is a magic moment the first time it happens to you and those magic moments will be few and far between. Ten years later as you've learned more you'll probably find problems with 9/10 of those magic moment photos, but maybe with one of them you won't, and that will be an even more magical moment.

Most importantly, take lots and lots of photos, and have fun doing it.

[tanabutler]

A lovely and intelligent post, Ellen. Thanks for taking the time to compose so thoughtfully.

[Richard Kilgore]

Good points Ellen. Even though I had a good deal of self-taught experience shooting, the best thing I ever did to improve my photography was to join a small (6) group class that met weekly: lecture, critique of last week's assignment, and new weekly shooting assignment (72 transparencies per week minimum). We did that for about 15 months. A friend who could not load film into a camera was winning contests by the time we were finished, and I had a winning entry in two of the three contests I entered.

Being your own tough critique is important, but it is very helpful to get feedback from others because you may miss something good of your own by being too perfectionistic. One of mine that appeared in American Photographer was one I had discounted because I thought to was technically lousy -- it was, but it still worked, something my instructor could see that I missed.

[Ellen Shapiro]

Some people are really good at self-improvement. Others desperately need outside critiques to keep them moving forward. I can only do so much with my own work before I need someone else to look at it. That person doesn't always have to be an expert. Sometimes it's enough that the person just isn't me.

I have a friend who lives in my neighborhood who is one of those hopeless photographers who can't improve himself and won't accept input from anybody else. So like most people in his situation he blames his equipment. Boy does he buy a lot of equipment! He now has a Leica R8 film camera and three excellent digital cameras in the point and shoot, prosumer, and professional categories. Every photograph he takes is dreadful.

I have another acquaintance who is an amateur photographer who has never had any formal training and doesn't want any, and he shoots with a hilarious looking Pentax that is so old and crappy and dented and has no meter and a sucky lens and everything else wrong with it and he doesn't understand or care about film so he just puts in whatever is on sale at Costco. And this guy takes great photos. It's amazing. He has won something like 20 amateur photo contests. His photos are just great. Consistently so. He's got it.

I don't mean to say it's not important what camera you buy. For most people having a camera that's a good fit for them will be helpful. Especially for the diehards who take cameras to the tops of mountains and the bottoms of seas you need to have good equipment that won't crap out on you when you're a thousand miles from the nearest camera store. If you photograph sports you need a fast lens. The obvious things. But I see the camera purchase as just a small part of the big, uh, picture.

[Fat Guy]

eGullet food photography critique group, anybody?

Just a thought.