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Babies/Children in Restaurants (merged topic)


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#61 tommy

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Posted 26 December 2003 - 12:35 PM

Having been married to a person who regularly pulled passive-aggressive stunts designed to inconvenience people, preventing them from objecting without looking bad, I have a little experience with the type.

Things like this happen.

perhaps you're overly sensitive to this type of thing then? we agree that it's certainly not the majority, and i can't imagine the percentage of people who are doing this as a "power" play is significant at all. probably about the same percentage as the people who drive SUVs because they have a small penis. it's an interesting theory, and yeah, maybe a few people with small penises have bought SUVs, but probably not as many as people want to think.

I think the SUV/penis analogy is not a good one.

i was using the analogy to point out that the percentage where it holds true is probably insignificant. although sometimes i have little faith in the human race and assume the worst as well. other times i think they couldn't get a baby-sitter.

#62 Mayhaw Man

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Posted 26 December 2003 - 12:38 PM

Well, here was the specific scenario last night: Couple number 1 arrives with infant, toddler and granny in tow. They are shown to a small semi-private room in the restaurant where the infant immediately starts wailing and the toddler starts unpacking toys on the floor and singing. Couple number 2 arrives, also with infant and toddler and granny. They are shown to an adjacent table. Mother comes flying to the hostess stand where she complains that the other children are making noise. She is then shown to another alcove in the restaurant where her children can now start wailing and singing without being bothered by the other children. At one point in the evening, it seemed the children at both tables were communicating in screams "I've got this part covered, too". The daddy in the main dining room picks up the infant and starts slowly strolling THROUGH THE RESTAURANT, oblivious to the 4 food runners, 6 waiters, 2 sommeliers, and other 80 customers. This is in contrast to the night before when an African diplomat brought his family, including 3 small children. They sat perfectly poised at the table. The maitre d' offered children items to the parents, pasta and such. He was astonished when the littlest boy said in perfect French "I want the lamb. I really like lamb". It was a rough night.

While I think that you made a nice start sticking them in an out of the way place, I think that the moment that the child was placed on the floor with a handful of toys that it was incumbent on the restaurant to gently tell the parents that this was not acceptable and that if the toys were an important part of the meal, perhaps they should consider other dining arrangements for the evening.

"Excuse me sir, but we have safety and insurance issues with children playing on the floor. Do you think that you will be able to control your child and keep him in his chair? If not, you will need to find somewhere else to dine this evening. We certainly appreciate you coming in this evening, but some because of safety and health reasons we will not be able to allow your children to play on the floor and out of concern for our other patrons we will need your children to behave at the table. I am sure that you understand"

Next, right after they finish yelling at you and telling you how their children are better than the other kids-You grab Dad and throw him out on his ass. His family is sure to follow him out of the door and the problem will be solved and you will be a hero to the other diners and to your staff :wacko: :laugh:

If reservations are difficult, maybe you could have offered to give them another at a time when the children could have been elsewhere?

It is a very difficult thing. Seats are hard to fill and every cover counts, but on the other hand it is just as difficult to get repeats and a screaming child unchecked by anyone is a good way to make sure that some of your other customers will not return.
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#63 balex

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Posted 26 December 2003 - 01:15 PM

Other diners have likely reserved a lot of money for a special night out, and they don't want to hear your kid screaming, even for a second.  They don't need the stress of WORRYING that your kid might start behaving badly and ruin their special night.  It isn't fair to them. 

This is ridiculous -- the idea that I shouldn't bring my well-behaved children to a restaurant because other customers might be worried that they might misbehave. Bad behaviour is inappropriate whether from adults or children -- we all agree. Beyond that I don't see why there should be special rules for children -- I have had more meals disrupted by noisy drunk businessman bragging about themselves than by children. I think restaurants should feel free to throw out disruptive customers whether they are adults or children.

#64 tsquare

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Posted 26 December 2003 - 01:28 PM

Childless here.
Happy to have a childhood where dining out was a regular event. I believe (memory may be faulty) that the 3 kids were well behaved in the restaurants. We knew these were special events, we were taught respect. Spent a lot of time in Las Vegas, when it was still an adult environment - and went to the shows to see Sammy Davis Jr, Dean Martin, Carol Channing, Juliet Prowse, etc. The staff usually gave us great seats (and service), we dressed up (far more than I ever do these days) and ate from the full menu. Same with dinners close to home.
So, I've never understood the contemporary child in restaurant syndrome with tantrums, toys, etc. I am always impressed with the adult who takes the squirming child outside for a break, or asks for their meal to be packed up to go, when they realize the kid isn't going to settle down. And even more impressed when someone from the restaurant offers to take the child into a back room to be entertained so that the adults can eat a meal in peace. But a parent, I can imagine, might have mixed feelings about that.
I know children who have managed to be good diners from very early on. I know parents who chose not to take their kids to nice restaurants since the kids don't sit still.
I don't think it is necessary to ban children from restaurants, but I think it is reasonable to have a written policy on what to do if any diner is disruptive, which would cover children as well as drunks, fighters, and others.

#65 phaelon56

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Posted 26 December 2003 - 01:45 PM

I'm in the camp that has a child (now an adult), truly enjoys being around young children and babies (when they're not being totally obnoxious) and also sympathizes with folks who find that having young ones radically alters their life but hey... YOU SIGNED UP FOR IT. I eat out in high end resaturants only on rare occasions and consider them (the restaurants) to be appropriate for adult experience. There may be the occasional baby or toddler who is so remarkably well behaved that they could be taken into almost any environment and not be a distraction for other diners but those kids are and exception.

Regardless.... if this practice becomes a problem at any estabishment it's on the proprietors to establish and enforce the ground rules. I'd put up with the toys on the floor and whining and crying of young patrons only once before voting with my wallet and dining elsewhere in the future.

#66 SethG

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Posted 26 December 2003 - 02:03 PM

This is ridiculous -- the idea that I shouldn't bring my well-behaved children to a restaurant because other customers might be worried that they might misbehave. Bad behaviour is inappropriate whether from adults or children -- we all agree. Beyond that I don't see why there should be special rules for children -- I have had more meals disrupted by noisy drunk businessman bragging about themselves than by children.  I think restaurants should feel free to throw out disruptive customers whether they are adults or children.

People who have saved for a special night out aren't going to be happy about seeing a toddler seated next to them. It's going to detract from their evening, because enough parents have been inconsiderate enough to bring ill-behaved children to fancy restaurants. A group of businessmen can be controlled by a restaurant before they get drunk and disorderly, and if the restaurant fails at exercising this control, the restaurant should take some blame for the situation. But the restaurant can't do much about the toddler once he or she is in the door.

Again, I'm not talking about your average restaurant. I'm talking about very expensive, fancy restaurants. And I'm not talking about pre-pubescent but mature kids who can be dressed up and told about how special a place is, etc. I'm talking about toddlers.

Edited by SethG, 26 December 2003 - 02:03 PM.

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#67 balex

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Posted 26 December 2003 - 02:20 PM

People who have saved for a special night out aren't going to be happy about seeing a toddler seated next to them.  It's going to detract from their evening, because enough parents have been inconsiderate enough to bring ill-behaved children to fancy restaurants. 

They might not be happy about seeing a black man being seated next to them. Or a group of American tourists. So what? I am not interested in people's prejudices -- the important thing is how individuals behave. I don't see why well-behaved children should not be allowed into fancy restaurants just because some children are badly behaved, any more than we should ban all Americans from Arpege just because someone ordered a Coke there once.

Ok, I'm exaggerating a bit, but you get the drift :wink:

#68 docsconz

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Posted 26 December 2003 - 02:22 PM

This thread has certainly provided a lot of interesting fodder for discussion. As a parent who likes to expose his kids to the finer things in life, I agree that it is imperative that their behavior must be able to stand up to the experience or the experience no longer is one of the finer things in life either for me, them or the other patrons.

I also agree that a restaurant or other primarily adult-oriented experience such as a show should have general groundrules for any disruptive patron, adult or not. It is wrong IMO, however, to discriminate entirely on the basis of age.

If a parent wants to bring a child into that environment it is his or her responsibility to make sure it will be a positive experience for all concerned in so much as that is ever possible. Some things to help this happen may be as posted above, earlier seatings, no tasting menus unless the child is truly up for it (One of the best and most enjoyable dining experiences I've ever had was sharing a tasting menu with my wife and then 12yo son at Susur in Toronto. That was the meal that really opened up the world of fine dining for him) and judicious restaurant selection.

As far as what restaurants can do, I think the best thing would be to expedite service to any table with young children or where there is some indication of possible disruptive behavior. The bigest problem with younger children in a restaurant is one of patience and boredom. While the meals there are not geared for rapid turnover, increased pacing can solve a lot of problems. The worst thing is to ignore the table or slow down service.

On a side note I hate chidren's menus in finer restaurants. They just encourage bringing in children without an interest in the food and they sidetrack those children developing a burgeoning interest in good food.
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#69 woodburner

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Posted 26 December 2003 - 02:34 PM

High End Restaurants on occasion serve a bad meal, which normally are dealt with on the spot, in an explicit, manner. This should be expected to happen from time to time, as no one, or thing is perfect, 100 percent of the time.

On the other hand, consumers need to respect the nature of an establishment, serving high end food, and service. The restraurant has the obligation, to deal with customers who intrude on not only the service of other paying patroons, but also the ambience and atmosphere, which one would normally expect to recieve as a patroon.

ie; I don't care if the individual is 2 or 92 yrs old. Dont "f" with my dining pleasure.

woodburner
edited for age discrimination

Edited by woodburner, 26 December 2003 - 03:02 PM.


#70 fifi

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Posted 26 December 2003 - 02:46 PM

The few posts above this one indicate to me that we really need to differentiate between "youngsters" (10 and above maybe?) and toddlers and infants. They are entirely different people. The older kids are capable of reason and control... IF they have been taught. Younger children are not. They are still in the "learning" mode and cannot be trusted under all circumstances where tedium and fatigue can exacerbate the situation. I had delightful experiences with my kids from maybe 8 or 9 on in fairly high end restaurants (not necessarily the top end) but would have been reluctant to include them any younger.

Unfortunately, I have been in situations where even 12 year olds behaved abominably. That is definitely the parents' fault.

If I am a diner in a high end restaurant and I see a "youngster" at a neighboring table, I am not too worried about the situation. If I see a toddler, I am likely to request another table or simply leave.

BTW... Dim Sum is great fun with children. It is normally a family affair in a bustling room and an excellent way to start younger children on dining "out".
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#71 docsconz

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Posted 26 December 2003 - 02:57 PM

I think even younger children can appreciate fine dining although it is unusual. I think they must be "trained" first. Parents shouldn't start out at the top, but they should start dining out with children at an early age in appropriate restaurants - dim sum is a good example as are various family restaurants- with good behavior always being stressed and gradually advancing them as their behavior allows. Sometimes a child's behavior may never allow for graduation beyond McDonald's, but when it does, it is a special thing, especially if the parents are genuinely interested in food and respect it and from whence it comes. I said earlier my 4yo is certainly not ready for prime time nor are we with him, although he is actually pretty well-behaved and a good diner in "family" oriented restaurants. My wife and I like to enjoy our meals as well.
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#72 Kim WB

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Posted 26 December 2003 - 03:37 PM

Mark, I strongly believe that management can, and should, ask that a disruptive child be removed from the dining room until the child's behavior is appropriate. Whatever ill will you might create with the child's family will be more than compensated by the appreciation (and potential return visits) of the other diners. If the family refuses to do so, they should be asked to leave. Comp part of the check if necessary. I mean, what would management do if two adults kept up a screaming argument or insisted on wandering uninvited from table to table? I also think it's perfectly ok for a restaurant to set whatever policy they would like concerning children, although I would focus on behavior rather than an age limit.

I agree with this entirely...

I also have a suggestion on how to acclimate your children to fine dining establishments. First, set up a special date with ONE child. Tell him that you will be going here with him on this date, he will need to wear " a tie and fancy shoes" (which is our family code for dressing up) and try to couple it with an event he would enjoy. For some children, this can start at ten. My daughter would love to put on her fancy dresses, and we would bring only her to see the Nutcracker, and then to a white table cloth restaurant. During this dinner,t here would be very specific instructions and reminders. Since there were no sibs around, she would be receptive and interested in the menu, atmosphere, etc. Takes about three "one on ones", and the kid's get it. My youngest started the process at about 12, and this year at almost 14, Mom and son dined at Lahiere's in Princeton, a stuffy old club restaurant, but formal and elegant, and then saw " A Christmas Carol". He was a gentleman, a fine and interesting dining companion, and he even paid for my coffee at the theater!

And , to come full circle to the specific subject, my son commented on the trerrible behavior of two 6 year olds in the restaurant, and wondered why the restaurant did not tell their parents to leave! :laugh:

#73 beans

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Posted 26 December 2003 - 03:55 PM

They might not be happy about seeing a black man being seated next to them. Or a group of American tourists. So what? I am not interested in people's prejudices -- the important thing is how individuals behave. I don't see why well-behaved children should not be allowed into fancy restaurants just because some children are badly behaved, any more than we should ban all Americans from Arpege just because someone ordered a Coke there once.

I think there is a tremendous difference between racial prejudices and "age" discrimination -- in this case unruly children in high-end, fine dining.

The key, at least for me, is the propensity of a child to misbehave. As I noted above, children become crabby and tired, which may very well be a child that 99.999999% of the time is an absolute angel with their track record of public behaviour. Well rested, excited and enthusiastic children can become overbearing as well, just to the brink of another diner being made uncomfortable.

I for one, do not appreciate the exaggeration being applied here.

#74 SobaAddict70

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Posted 26 December 2003 - 04:01 PM

I'd be interested in seeing whether there are similar experiences to Mark's at places like FL, CT, JG and ADNY -- over the course of a year.

Maybe a blog is in order. :hmmm:

Soba

#75 fifi

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Posted 26 December 2003 - 04:14 PM

Good point. I wonder what "policies" some of these places have.
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#76 woodburner

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Posted 26 December 2003 - 04:26 PM

Good point. I wonder what "policies" some of these places have.

Is there any policy?
I'm willing to make an assumption there is nothing in place for fear that they will look like monsters, in some circles.

woodburner

#77 tommy

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Posted 26 December 2003 - 04:28 PM

I'm willing to make an assumption there is nothing in place for fear that they will look like monsters, in some circles.

then again, the fine dining public probably wouldn't run in those circles to begin with.

#78 foodie52

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Posted 26 December 2003 - 04:33 PM

Oh good lord.....

If you can afford a high end restaurant, you can afford a baby-sitter for the night. And if you have to take your kids everywhere you go, then you have a problem...

Give me a break.

#79 Mayhaw Man

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Posted 26 December 2003 - 04:35 PM

I'd be interested in seeing whether there are similar experiences to Mark's at places like FL, CT, JG and ADNY -- over the course of a year.

Maybe a blog is in order. :hmmm:

Soba

They happen everyday. And while I disagree (generally) with the posters who claim that people are doing this out of some kind of innate evilness, I will say that I wish they would stop doing it and find someplace more suitable.

Most of the posters here seem to be of the opinion that a young person (I am talking 8 or 10 y.o. here, but I am certain that all of you have exceptional children and could have and wanted to dine fine earlier in life :hmmm: ) who is able to sit still and be interested is often a welcome addition to a meal and that a young person who cannot sit still or enjoy a meal is NOT a welcome addition to a dining experience. I'll go further than that-I do not want to sit next to anyone who is going to annoy those around him, regardless of age. Bad behavior is bad behavior. Boorish businessmen, annoying lunch ladies talking back and forth about their latest jewelry acquisitions and upcoming trips to Bali, guys on cell phones talking 3 comma deals. All of these are JUST AS ANNOYING as little kids.

The difference between these groups is this-The adults have chosen, of their own accord, to dine in a nice place where certain rules and standards are in place (maybe not written in detail on the back of the menu, but generally understood) and the children are just along for the ride because Mommy and Daddy either wanted a good meal and only had one shot at the reservation or because they are just plain thoughtless. Neither of these things are good excuses. Until a child (or anyone else for that matter) is old enough to understand decent decorum in a fine dining establishment they should not be there. There are exceptions to this, but there aren't many and the excuses that do exist (no choice, one time shot, etc.) aren't up to snuff in my book. THere is always somewhere else to go that everyone concerned (children, adults, fellow diners) would be happier with. After all, no small child, regardless of age, wants to be told to sit still 100 times during a 2 1/2 hour dinner service and no parent wants to say it 100 times (and parents who don't bother shouldn't be in there either if they are so clueless as to not try to correct the behavior of their offspring).

It is all about the way children are brought up and how they behave in public. It is my experience when I see children generally acting terrible in public that their parents do not spend anytime correcting their behavior either because they don't know any better or because the are so wrapped up with themselves that they don't even notice their little hellions throwing bread crumbs and butter pats.

Take em when they express an interest and when YOU think that they are ready. Make a big damn deal out of it. Make sure that they know that it is a big deal. Tell em how much it costs ("Sweetheart, this meal is really important and you should know that. You should also know that this is going to cost more than a playstation and 3 new games. Please behave like a good little girl and we will do it again soon. If you misbehave you will have to grow up and get a job before you see the inside of this place again" :raz: ) and that it is a very special deal to you and you are thrilled to have them along. Make the child feel like a grown up. I had great luck doing something similar (I have to admit that my little lecture was a bit more threatening. Something along the lines of "If you wanna go to Military School here is your big chance, bubba. Screw this up and you will be marching around in circles before you know it" :laugh: ) and now have both of the boys suitably broken in. They know how to eat, know which fork to use, and know not to make bad noises when they see a waiter at Galitoires trundling out the esargot service for a nearby diner (it's a long story, but they REALLY HATE that stuff). We don't do it all the time, because they would rather go to Joe's Dreyfuss than Emeril's, but I know if I need to I can depend on them to behave.

But I would never have done this before many dining experiences in places where it didn't matter, frankly, if they spent the whole night running around. THey got used to sitting and they got interested in food as something more than just something to fill up on. Please keep the kids at home until everybody is ready to act decently and not bother everybody else. We will all be glad you did.
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#80 tommy

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Posted 26 December 2003 - 04:44 PM

Oh good lord.....

If you can afford a high end restaurant, you can afford a baby-sitter for the night.

what if it's a business dinner?

what if your babysitter canceled at the last minute?

what if it's a gift certificate?

what else should one be able to afford if they can afford a high-end restaurant? seems to me that if you're spending a lot on a dinner, maybe you don't have a lot left over. well, it doesn't actually seem that way to me, but clearly that can be the case. and for many people, it is.

#81 hjshorter

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Posted 26 December 2003 - 04:50 PM

Oh good lord.....

If you can afford a high end restaurant, you can afford a baby-sitter for the night.

what if it's a business dinner?

what if your babysitter canceled at the last minute?

If it's a business dinner you're probably less likely to make a deal if your toddler is along. :smile:

And the babysitter cancelling...this happens to us all the time. Either one of goes and one stays home with the kids, or we cancel the reservation. We would spend the entire meal worrying that one of the kids would start misbehaving.

There are people who feel they need to take their kids with them everywhere they go, and those people need to get a clue that it's much better for everyone when kids aren't put into situations that they are not mature enough to handle.
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#82 foodie52

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Posted 26 December 2003 - 04:52 PM

If it's a business dinner, why are the kids coming?

If it's a gift certificate, then it must be a really special thing :it would seem to me that you'd want to be able to enjoy it, no hassles, no kids, no kidding.

If your baby-sitter cancels ( as mine certainly did on occasion....) then postpone the outing! You want to really enjoy the occasion, don't you?

Take the kids to cafes....to cafeterias....to places where you can whisk them away at the drop of a hat . Socialize them in kid-friendly places and especially at the family dinner table.

#83 Bux

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Posted 26 December 2003 - 05:04 PM

I have neither much sympathy nor respect for those who can tell in advance that their meal will be ruined by a neighbor because of that person's age, sex or ethnicity. For the most part, babies, toddlers and young children don't belong in AD/NY, Charlie Trotter's or the French Laundry, but I'm unsympathetic to blanket rules. I didn't take my own daughter to this sort of restaurant until she was at least 11 or so as best I can recall. The reason had little to do with her behavior and a lot to do with the our finances. I remember traveling with her at eleven and she was not only well behaved, but an astute critic of what she ate. Her grandparents however, spent many an evening with her in what I consider moderate NYC French restaurants. From the age of four on, she could occupy herself with a single artichoke while they ate two courses. Crayons and a coloring book were brought and my mother would make trips to the restroom between courses to help with the attention span limits. So far as I'd heard, they were welcome return diners in the restaurants they frequented. I happen to enjoy kids and enjoy seeing them wherever I am. One of the things that pleases me in a restaurant is seeing three generations sitting at a table enjoying a good meal together. It's rare in a Daniel or Jean Georges environment, but I love it when I see it.

I've already said that most babies, toddlers and young kids don't belong in that environment, but most adults probably wouldn't be happy there either. I know. I have many friends who feel that way. Fortunately they make their own decisions and kids don't usually have that luxury. Nevertheless, I've had more meals disrupted by misbehaving adults than children. The responsibility of the restaurant, which cannot always predetermine which diners are going to be disruptive, is to deal with the disruptive ones when they are disruptive and to do so in a fair manner without making a bad situation worse.

Toys on the floor in an urban restaurant is usually a taboo. Few such restaurants can afford the floor space. The real problem is not in the rules or lack of rules, but in our society and those who live selfish lives without consideration of others, be they irresponsible parents or just single boorish drunks in restaurants. One of the things a restaurant might do, is discourage the return of the parents Mark had as diners. Dress them down on the way out and let them know how you feel at the risk of losing them forever. Let them come on eGullet and dis your restaurant long enough for responsible members to let them know they were wrong. I've read complaints about restaurant behavior here and seen them countered by fair minded impartial members. That's one service we can provide.
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#84 tommy

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Posted 26 December 2003 - 05:14 PM

If it's a business dinner, why are the kids coming?

why not? is this always inappropriate?

clearly, taking children to high-end restaurants is the exception, rather than the norm. if it wasn't, i'd see a lot more kids at Jean-Georges. i don't. so, i'm pointing out possible exceptions. regardless of retorts, they are valid, and just 4 that came to mind in about .5 seconds. this suggests, to me, that there are more. more importantly, i was speaking to your suggestion that if one can "afford" a high-end restaurant, they can afford a baby-sitter (as if finances are the reason people bring children to restaurants), ostensibly nullifying the need to ever bring a child to a high-end restaurant.

i think restauratuers should start an official survey, asking why children are in restaurants. then we could all get together and tell each person why they're wrong.

Edited by tommy, 26 December 2003 - 05:19 PM.


#85 fifi

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Posted 26 December 2003 - 05:16 PM

From the age of four on, she could occupy herself with a single artichoke while they ate two courses.


You just described my daughter. And we did take her places. My son was another story altogether. Not that he was bad. He just had a different temperament and wasn't able to do this until about age 6 or 7. That is where parental responsibility comes in. Parents are the ones that know what will work. If they don't make that determination correctly (and many don't), the poor restauranteur is screwed. He has to choose as to who to piss off. I favor pissing off the unthinking idiot that takes a child into an environment that they are not ready for.
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#86 WHT

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Posted 26 December 2003 - 05:25 PM

I think the restaurant has the right to throw out customers who won't or can't control the behavior of their babies, within reasonable limits.

I would agree with that! Any disruptive element should be removed. Childeren under 6 don't belong at such a place.
Living hard will take its toll...

#87 tommy

tommy
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Posted 26 December 2003 - 05:29 PM

I think the restaurant has the right to throw out customers who won't or can't control the behavior of their babies, within reasonable limits.

I would agree with that! Any disruptive element should be removed. Childeren under 6 don't belong at such a place.

speaking of official policies, i would think that knowing this might happen would be deterent enough for people to leave their kids at home. actually, i wonder if that's why many don't bring their kids to high-end restaurants to being with?

#88 jat

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Posted 26 December 2003 - 05:34 PM

Mark, I am bewildered WHY the management does nothing when there is
a crying baby. Does your restaurant do nothing and let the diners suffer?
I think there are many unanimous responses here about restaurant policy
to remove an unruly child. A fine dining establishment should have the
protocol to handle this. Are you really not doing anything at your restaurant? :wacko:

#89 fifi

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Posted 26 December 2003 - 05:34 PM

speaking of official policies, i would think that knowing this might happen would be deterent enough for people to leave their kids at home.

The continuous creation of ever more creative idiots is indeed mind boggling. That is why restaurants need to decide on a policy and stick to it. I still think that establishing "family days" makes some sense so that all can be accommodated. that way, those that want to dine with kids, can. Then they can't really take a bitch about being refused to the press. And, the patrons that don't want to be disrupted by children will know which days to avoid.
Linda LaRose aka "fifi"

"Having spent most of my life searching for truth in the excitement of science, I am now in search of the perfectly seared foie gras without any sweet glop." Linda LaRose

#90 Mayhaw Man

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Posted 26 December 2003 - 05:36 PM

i wonder if that's why many don't bring their kids to high-end restaurants to being with?

I think that most people don't do it because:

1) Most people are generally respectful of others

2) It is a waste of money (generally speaking)

3) It is not fun or fair for the the children (generally speaking, once again)

4) Nice dining is a big occasion for most people. Correcting a child all night long would sort of take the shine off of the apple. And trust me, having a disagreement involving children is no way to "get lucky" :laugh:
Brooks Hamaker, aka "Mayhaw Man"

There's a train everyday, leaving either way...