42 replies to this topic

[gabe]

Maybe it's because we're officially in the dead of winter, but I'm thinking about how long it's going to be before good fresh tomatoes are available again. Which got me thinking about canned tomatoes -- surely a kitchen staple.

My standard for a few years has been the "San Marzano" brand that is available in many supermarkets -- the one with the mostly white label. I think they're pretty good, certainly much better than store brand or Hunt/Del Monte crapola. I've tried a few of the organic brands Whole Foods carries -- Muir Glen, Walnut Acres (or something like that) -- but they're not good enough to make me want to stock up on them over San Marzano brand (which, I know, does not actually come from Italy).

I've yet to acquaint myself with the brands they carry in Italian specialty stores like Claudio or DiBruno or Carlino's -- some of which surely must exceed San Marzano brand in quality (if also likely in price). Which ones are worth trying? Are there any brands out there that, like Parmagiano-Reggiano, will make me unable to contemplate buying inferior domestic imitations?

[PoorLawyer]

I have actually been able to get actual imported san marzano canned whole tomatoes at Whole Foods in DC, but they don't always have them. I can't say as I notice a difference between the domestic and imported, but either one is better than most other brand.

[tommy]

but they're not good enough to make me want to stock up on them over San Marzano brand (which, I know, does not actually come from Italy).

aren't all san marzano tomato products made from tomatoes from italy? i had assumed so, and just today i suggested this to someone. i hope i wasn't wrong.

anyway, i've been liking Pomi brand tomato products. made by parmalat i think, and widely available i'd think.

Edited by tommy, 22 December 2003 - 01:21 PM.

[PoorLawyer]

I believe the domestic ones use seeds from Italy but are grown here.

[gabe]

but they're not good enough to make me want to stock up on them over San Marzano brand (which, I know, does not actually come from Italy).

aren't all san marzano tomato products made from tomatoes from italy? i had assumed so, and just today i suggested this to someone. i hope i wasn't wrong.

anyway, i've been liking Pomi brand tomato products. made by parmalat i think, and widely available i'd think.

Thanks for the tip on Pomi. I've seen that brand at the Italian stores and remember using it when I was living abroad (not in Italy, though).

The white-labeled San Marzano brand tomatoes that I'm talking about have a blurb on the label that says, basically, that they used to import San Marzano tomatoes from Italy, but the quality dropped and so they decided to switch to high-quality domestic tomatoes. I think they're actually canned in New Jersey. San Marzano is a place, a varietal, and a brand, so the company is certainly capitalizing on the confusion here. But the tomatoes are good.

[tommy]

if this is the brand, i'd say they're definitely capitalizing. at least they use the phrase "san marzano style" in the description, though.

Edited by tommy, 22 December 2003 - 01:36 PM.

[menton1]

The best tomatoes I've had in Philly are from Rosa Foods-- they have lovely San Marzano Imported tomatoes, and they add whole basil leaves for a nice touch. I've only been able to get this product in Philadelphia area stores. Web site: http://www.rosafoods.com

[gabe]

Tommy, that's the brand I'm talking about -- my usual go-to can.

[Fat Guy]

Just because a can says San Marzano on it doesn't mean the tomatoes are from Italy. Most tomatoes sold in the US as San Marzano are from California and Florida, as far as I know. Unless the packaging specifically says the tomatoes are San Marzano tomatoes imported from San Marzano, they could be San Marzano-style (aka San Marzano the type) tomatoes from anywhere.

I agree that the Pomi tomatoes are excellent. Indeed, I think they are superior to all others, even legitimate San Marzano tomatoes packed in metal. It took me awhile to acquire the taste for the Pomi tomatoes, because the "canned" taste was so much a part of what I expected from canned tomatoes (even with plastic-lined cans, you get that taste, so it must be from the process not the metal). But now it's hard for me to enjoy any other type.

[tanabutler]

anyway, i've been liking Pomi brand tomato products. made by parmalat i think, and widely available i'd think.

I totally agree. I've been buying Pomi in a box at Trader Joe's for quite a while.

I do like the Muir Glen Fire-Roasted Tomatoes very much in spicy sausage pasta dishes.

[tommy]

Just because a can says San Marzano on it doesn't mean the tomatoes are from Italy. Most tomatoes sold in the US as San Marzano are from California and Florida, as far as I know. Unless the packaging specifically says the tomatoes are San Marzano tomatoes imported from San Marzano, they could be San Marzano-style (aka San Marzano the type) tomatoes from anywhere.

so it's kinda like that Korbel "champagne" they've been pushing on us for years. that's unfortunate. i guess i'll have to check the labels, or, better yet, find a brand that i enjoy and buy it exclusively. like pomi.

[Fat Guy]

For what it's worth, Pomi tomatoes, while not San Marzano, are from Italy.

What's the best price you all are getting on the Pomi boxes?

[menton1]

Wasn't there some issue about tomatoes and milk packaged in cardboard boxes? I seem to remember something about a gas used and/or irradiation for perserving the product in the cardboard.

[Fat Guy]

I thought Parmalat stuff was just UHT processed, in other words really heavily pasteurized. I wasn't under the impression that it was irradiated, though I wouldn't care.

[menton1]

I wasn't under the impression that it was irradiated, though I wouldn't care.

Well, that statement opens up a whole can of worms-- it would be a big digression to discuss this in depth here-- An Egullet search shows it has not really been discussed in great detail; perhaps a thread should be started in the General Food Topics--

Meanwhile, here is just a small tidbit for the story from a well-respected non-profit organization (no axe to grind), Public Citizen.... Food Safety and Irradiation

Edited by menton1, 22 December 2003 - 03:47 PM.

[bloviatrix]

anyway, i've been liking Pomi brand tomato products.  made by parmalat i think, and widely available i'd think.

Pomi is made by Parmalat. I pulled out a box to look after reading about the "accounting error" over the weekend.

What's the best price you all are getting on the Pomi boxes?

FG --Fairway and Shop Rite in NJ have it for $1.49. Have you found a place locally that's less?

Edited by bloviatrix, 22 December 2003 - 03:52 PM.

[Fat Guy]

They were 99 cents at Teitel Bros. on Arthur Ave. last time I was up there. Best price I've ever seen on that product.

[Fat Guy]

I wasn't under the impression that it was irradiated, though I wouldn't care.

Well, that statement opens up a whole can of worms-- it would be a big digression to discuss this in depth here-- An Egullet search shows it has not really been discussed in great detail; perhaps a thread should be started in the General Food Topics--

Meanwhile, here is just a small tidbit for the story from a well-respected non-profit organization (no axe to grind), Public Citizen.... Food Safety and Irradiation

Well respected by you, maybe. Not by me!

Feel free to start such a thread. See you there.

[Rich Pawlak]

I have also enjoyed Pomi crushed tomatoes; they make a sauce of stunning brightness and color. I've also had great success with Luigi Vitelli whole pear or crushed tomatoes, which bear a label stating that they are either packed in Turkey (usually the crushed tomatoes) or Italy (usually the whole pear tomatoes). Amazingly vibrant color when turned into a red gravy.

[rockhopper]

I use Cento paste, puree and "italian style" tomatoes in my gravy.

San Marzano tomatoes are truly no better but they do have yuppie snob appeal for the Saint Mario crowd.

[Holly Moore]

anyway, i've been liking Pomi brand tomato products. made by parmalat i think, and widely available i'd think.

I totally agree. I've been buying Pomi in a box at Trader Joe's for quite a while.

I do like the Muir Glen Fire-Roasted Tomatoes very much in spicy sausage pasta dishes.

So I went to my local Trader Joe's and asked for tomatoes in a box. The ever-so-helpful guy in the tropical shirt took me to the produce section, and pointed me to the fresh tomatoes in a cellophane wrapped tray.

Then we went to the tomato section and the only tomato products there were a couple of facings of canned tomatoes - with and without salt as I recall.

[tommy]

San Marzano tomatoes are truly no better but they do have yuppie snob appeal for the Saint Mario crowd.

color me a saint mario following yuppie snob.

[gabe]

So I went to my local Trader Joe's and asked for tomatoes in a box. The ever-so-helpful guy in the tropical shirt took me to the produce section, and pointed me to the fresh tomatoes in a cellophane wrapped tray.

Then we went to the tomato section and the only tomato products there were a couple of facings of canned tomatoes - with and without salt as I recall.

I dropped by Carlino's in Ardmore on my way home yesterday and was quite disappointed by their tomato product selection. I guess they probably wish they had more space, too.

The only line of canned tomatoes they carried were Cento, imported San Marzano style, from Italy. I bought a can (I've had these before), but grumbled at the ridiculous price ($3.29? Come on).

Luckily, there is much besides canned tomatoes to recommend that store. It was packed quite to the gills with Italian food lovers shopping for the holidays. I think the four people in front of me at the meat counter each bought the fanciest San Daniele prosciutto available.

[Fat Guy]

I've never done a San Marzano v. San Marzano-style/species taste test. I'd like to.

[tommy]

I've never done a San Marzano v. San Marzano-style/species taste test. I'd like to.

i'd like to as well, although i'm not sure that my sense of taste would necessarily be keen enough to make any kind of solid determination. on a related note, there's a point at which one must take what countless others have said on a subject, and just kinda go with it.

[rockhopper]

I've never done a San Marzano v. San Marzano-style/species taste test. I'd like to.

I have - several times.

My father was a San Marzano guy. It's what they had in the "old country" so that's what he knew and searched out.

Especially since the economic depression that started in Jan 2001 I've used alternatives - breaking my 35 year San Marzano habit. Sorry to say but there are truly horrible domestic tomatoes out there. Tutto [g]Rosso comes to mind. blech.

In Southern NJ Cento products are readily available so I started using them. Actualy right at this moment Acme has them on sale and I bought several dozen cans. I don't know the original of their non Italian tomatoes. Since they are in Thorofare I'm guessing that NJ may be a partial source. Anyone know?

In a typical sunday gravy you won't be able to tell the difference with or without the SM tomatoes. The "italian style" viz., plum tomatoes from Cento have the same effect.

If you are making a marinara or something like a puttanesca then maybe you'll notice the difference. Actually I think I'll make a few puttanesche and let you know!

disclaimer:
I have absolutely no financial interest in Cento. I'm a computer consultant.

Edited by rockhopper, 24 December 2003 - 12:20 PM.

[pjs]

I've been using the imported Cento peeled tomatoes exclusively for quite some time--$1.79/35oz can. When the Pomi boxes showed up on the supermarket shelf--$1.59/26 oz--I began stocking both.

PJ

PS: The current Cento can has a recipe for red sauce with tuna on the back--one of my favorite pasta sauces (I use Marcella's recipe though). Try finding a recipe as un-mainstream on a Progresso can--or the dish at the Olive Garden.

[tim olivett]

I like to mix fresh & canned tomatoes for sauces. No matter what brand you use there are always a few tricks to coax the best flavor out of them. You definitely find people on both sides of the fence when it comes to adding sugar to tomato sauce but I have to say sugar is a secret ingredient in many chef's pantries. If you read (& I suggest you do) Tom Valenti's "From My Kitchen" cookbook, he has a great passage about seeing another chef he respected (John Schenk) having sugar right next to the salt & pepper on his station and how happy he was to see he was not alone. I use bar sugar since it dissolve instantly, in hot or cold to tweak alot of sauces. Essentially everytime you use onions or wine or most vegetables, you are on some level, adding sugar to your dish. So, as the seasons change and products vary, don't feel like your cheating if you sneak a pinch of sugar in when noone's looking. They'll all thank you for it later when your sauce has that extra "something" that always makes yours taste better than when they try to make it.

[Mottmott]

I like to mix fresh & canned tomatoes for sauces.  No matter what brand you use there are always a few tricks to coax the best flavor out of them.  You definitely find people on both sides of the fence when it comes to adding sugar to tomato sauce but I have to say sugar is a secret ingredient in many chef's pantries.  If you read (& I suggest you do) Tom Valenti's "From My Kitchen" cookbook, he has a great passage about seeing another chef he respected (John Schenk) having sugar right next to the salt & pepper on his station and how happy he was to see he was not alone.  I use bar sugar since it dissolve instantly, in hot or cold to tweak alot of sauces.  Essentially everytime you use onions or wine or most vegetables, you are on some level, adding sugar to your dish.  So, as the seasons change and products vary, don't feel like your cheating if you sneak a pinch of sugar in when noone's looking.  They'll all thank you for it later when your sauce has that extra "something" that always makes yours taste better than when they try to make it.

My kitchen rule? "There are no rules."

I agree it's about balancing and/or emphasizing flavors and aromas. Taste, adjust, taste, adjust. If it needs sweet, add sweet. I also often sneak in a bit of lemon juice and/or peel while cooking or sprinkle some on before serving to give another dimension to the acidity of the tomatoes.


As for brand. I used to order the large cans of Badalucco tomatoes by the case from Claudio when they were packed in their own juices. Now they've changed the formula and begun packing them in puree. So I'm casting about for my "house" brand. (Claudio's says chefts prefer the tomatoes in the puree. Huumph.)

[Anna N]

... I use bar sugar since it dissolve instantly, in hot or cold to tweak alot of sauces.

Can you tell me what "bar" sugar is - I have never heard of it. Thanks.