111 replies to this topic

[Random]

Has anyone ever made a Bûche de Noël with a pastry cream filling? I'm planning on making one with a standard genoise cake base, but was worried the pastry cream might make it a bit soggy after a day in the fridge.

This may not be a problem, as occasionaly when I've made a genoise, it's come out pretty dry and needing of a lot of sugar syurp. Are there any recommendations acheiving maximum moistness in a genoise?

Thanks

[nightscotsman]

I think a genoise by definition is supposed to be dry and require a soaking syrup of some kind to add moisture and tenderness. Given than, I wouldn't worry about the cake becoming too soggy, but I wonder if the pastry cream might become a bit thick and pasty after losing moisture to the sponge. I would suggest folding some whipped cream into the pastry cream so it stays lighter.

[maggiethecat]

I'd use a biscuit rather than a genoise batter.

[Random]

I'd use a biscuit rather than a genoise batter.  A genoise is by definition, not moist.

I'm not familiar with biscuit batter. What kind of batter is it, can you point me towards a recipe? thanks

Edited by Random, 19 December 2003 - 10:26 PM.

[maggiethecat]

The best pointer I can give you is to page 142 of Rose Levy Beranbaum's "Cake Bible."

It's basically a very tender sponge roll, no butter. Cake flour, cornstarch, sugar separated eggs folded together. The flour proportion to the eggs is miniscule, and what evolves in the jelly roll pan is a kind of sublime cross between a cake and a souffle omelette. Very tasty, soft, and ready to roll.

If you can't find a recipe, PM me.

[sandra]

Here is what I am doing..

Biscuit a rouler
4 eggs
125 gr caster sugar
75 gr flour
whisk eggs over bain marie with sugar til blood temp, then remove from heat and whisk until they reach ribbon stage. Fold in the flour all at once - spread in baking tray greased and lined with parchment. Run finger around the edges and bake at 180c, 6-7 minutes. Cool on a rack with a tea towel covering it to keep moisture in. The biscuit does not have to be soaked, (I hate soaked cake) but it can be, with whatever you like - cut off the edges before rolling

For the filling I am using dulce de leche, and for the frosting I am using either fudge icing or a creme fraiche ganache.

Decorations will be meringue mushrooms and snowmen, and marzipan holly.

[Ladybug]

The best pointer I can give you is to page 142 of Rose Levy Beranbaum's "Cake Bible."

It's basically a very tender sponge roll, no butter. Cake flour, cornstarch, sugar separated eggs folded together. The flour proportion to the eggs is miniscule, and what evolves in the jelly roll pan is a kind of sublime cross between a cake and a souffle omelette. Very tasty, soft, and ready to roll.

If you can't find a recipe, PM me.

I've made the Cocoa Souffle Roll on page 140 of The Cake Bible twice with great success. It's very light and airy and rolls like a charm. I'm planning on making it again next week.

[Louisa Chu]

Random, why a pastry cream? But having asked that, a pastry cream in and of itself should not be a conservation problem. How long are you planning to hold it before serving? And yes, nightscotman's right - your genoise's supposed to be dry - you want to imbibe it so that the syrup just starts to soak through to the other side. But I don't get adding the whipped cream - a well made pastry cream will hold intact - adding whipped cream completely changes the product and the conservation.

A buche de Noel does not have to be rolled - you can use a log/roll mold and then cut layers of whatever you want your pastry to be. I like using a dacquoise - but then again I like dacquoise for just about anything.

The current Laduree newsletter has a recipe for their chocolate buche de Noel - try emailing them for a copy.

Edited by loufood, 20 December 2003 - 09:43 AM.

[Random]

Random, why a pastry cream?

I usually make a dessert with pastry cream for Christmas and thought it would be interesting in a Bûche.

I'm guessing a biscuit dough would be something like this, at joy of baking or this, at baking 911?

I just found the Baking911.com recipe, it specifically calls for a pastry cream filling with a sponge base and buttercream icing. Which is exactly on target for what I was planning. Although I plan to use a meringue, Italian instead of a whole-egg buttercream.

Edited by Random, 20 December 2003 - 04:29 PM.

[nightscotsman]

Random, why a pastry cream? But having asked that, a pastry cream in and of itself should not be a conservation problem. How long are you planning to hold it before serving? And yes, nightscotman's right - your genoise's supposed to be dry - you want to imbibe it so that the syrup just starts to soak through to the other side. But I don't get adding the whipped cream - a well made pastry cream will hold intact - adding whipped cream completely changes the product and the conservation.

I suggested adding whipped cream to the pastry cream because if he doesn't soak the genoise, it will act like the sponge it is and suck quite a bit of moisture out of the cream. Folding in whipped cream might keep the pastry cream from becoming too thick and pasty. Also - just my personal preference - I'm not really a fan of eating straight pastry cream.

I agree that a biscuit would be the way to go if you don't want to soak.

The current Laduree newsletter has a recipe for their chocolate buche de Noel - try emailing them for a copy.

Or you could try making their 2 meter tall christmas tree decorated with 1200 gold foil covered chocolate macarons...

[Random]

The current Laduree newsletter has a recipe for their chocolate buche de Noel - try emailing them for a copy.

Or you could try making their 2 meter tall christmas tree decorated with 1200 gold foil covered chocolate macarons...

I saw that tree... Perhaps if I had a staff and a budget and a commercial kitchen...

I tried a test-sponge today to see how I liked it. I found it somewhat disappointing in that there was barely enough batter to fill the sheet. I also found the end product far too thin and very eggy, almost like a crepe. It made for a quite small jelly roll. (although I wouldn't discount the very real possibility this was due entirely to some error I made)

I think I'll go with a chocolate genoise after all, as I've made them many times before. I think perhaps I'll give it a gentle soak with some chambord sugar-syrup to keep the dryness away. And I'm reconsidering the pastry cream, perhaps a whipped filling would be better.

[KarenS]

I've been making LOTS of these. I have been using chiffon mostly (flavored with spices, filled with whipped mascarpone "eggnog"- nutmeg-rum-sugar). The oil in chiffon makes rolling a breeze (you can also add some hazelnut/ macadamia / almond oil). Merry Christmas!

[helenjp]

I made a cocoa genoise and filled it with a strawberry and white chocolate ganache, outside coated with a dark chocolate ganache. I was surprised to find that about a billion other people had come up with this unremarkable idea too...

In retrospect, I think there may be something to be said for a softer filling. Possibly because our house is so dreadfully cold, by the next day the two ganaches were a little harder than I wanted them to be. The cake was fine on the day, though. Next year I may go back to a strawberry mousse filling -- it HAS to be strawberry, because the traditional Japanese Christmas Cake is a strawberry shortcake, and only so much leeway is permitted me!

The genoise wasn't dry, because I used the cocoa/boiling water method from Rose Levy Berenbaum. This is the best way I know to make a chocolate cake which is intense in flavor and keeps well, but I had not thought of applying that to a genoise

[melmck]

Hi everbody! I am wondering what pastry chefs/bakery owners are charging for Buche de Noel this season. Say 12", classic log with meringue mushrooms and the whole enchilada. Naturally, all made from scratch using good stuff...
Thanks,
Mel

[Carolyn Tillie]

Last year the 6" were between $25 and $40 and the 12" were $50 to $75 (depending on which bakery I saw them at here in Napa).

[phifly04]

Last year the 6" were between $25 and $40 and the 12" were $50 to $75 (depending on which bakery I saw them at here in Napa).

Thinking maybe i should have went into pastry arts
Dave s

[Rhea_S]

Wow! I make and give several as gifts every year. I had no idea how much money I was saving. I make mine with the best chocolate I can find for the ganache and the filling includes mascarpone. They're already pricey for me to make, but people are disappointed when I don't make them. Plus, there's probably only one bakery here in town that is likely to make them and you would have to order far in advance. How much are croquembouche?

[nightscotsman]

Last year the 6" were between $25 and $40 and the 12" were $50 to $75 (depending on which bakery I saw them at here in Napa).

Thinking maybe i should have went into pastry arts
Dave s

Yeah, 'cuz that's where the real money's at.


BWA-HA-HA-HA-HAAAAA!

[kitwilliams]

Yeah, 'cuz that's where the real money's at.


BWA-HA-HA-HA-HAAAAA!

 

That being said (and soooo beautifully, Neil!), I sell 'em for seventy-five bucks a pop. A tip for those of you who like a beautifully rustic-looking buche (with a political statement thrown in) I decorate mine with meringue mushrooms and the peaceful olive branch. They look lovely.

[mkfradin]

Is there any way to make these guys in advance and freeze? I'm not a big fan of buttercream for a cake roll filling, and I love whipped cream, but when we froze the unfilled cake rolls for Passover last spring, they disintegrated. I'm starting to worry about what we'll do for Xmas. What do you guys use for filling and how do you make in advance (assembled or in components)?

I like the prices!!!! I'm learning to charge more, but it's still hard to demand what we all deserve to be paid in the face of lower priced bakeries nearby (using inferior ingredients, but what does that matter, say the clients anyway).

Marjorie

[chefpeon]

Here's one of my many Buche de Noel's I've done over the years......I can do 'em in my sleep....


I wasn't a big fan of buttercream as a filling either, so I sometimes use ganache, whipped ganache, or some sort of mousse......but when I discovered praline buttercream I started
using that. It tastes SO good, plus I have the convenience of a buttercream.

Sometimes I don't even do the jellyroll thing, because I don't really like the texture of that sort
of cake. What I've done many times is bake off half sheets of really good chocolate cake, then I will split and fill them with whatever I want (praline buttercream!), then freeze. Once frozen, I cut the half sheet into "logs"-generally just cutting the cake into strips. I round off the edges, cut both ends off in a bias, then pipe chocolate buttercream on it with a large round tip. I add my bias cut ends to create the branch thingys, and pipe over that with my choc. buttercream. I apply a light coat of ivory buttercream to the ends of the "log", then I use an airbrush to create the rings in the "wood". Then I let it all set up in the fridge. Once set up, I take the tip of a paring knife, and carve deep crooked grooves into the buttercream. Then with a very clean or gloved hand, I run my hand over the grooves, smoothing it out. The warmth of my hand smoothes out
the buttercream but ALSO discolors it a bit, creating a wonderful natural wood look. I discovered this by accident, but it's great! I don't use meringue mushrooms.....I do holly leaves and berries and a red cardinal on top. The cardinal is made out of modeling chocolate. All for the low price of........$125! I had the advantage of working in a cake shop in the middle of the Microsoft campus and most people who ordered from me didn't even blink an eye at that price. Sometimes
they bought two......
Now.....however.....'tis a different story! Up here in Tinytown, people would say, "$125 for a cake that looks like a log? Heck I can get a log in the woods for free!" They'd probably think it would taste good too. These people like Sesame Flaxseed Cookies....wood is probably an improvement.
Oh, but I kid......you gotta love your customers. I suppose.

Edited by chefpeon, 03 November 2004 - 05:20 PM.

[ladyyoung98]

chefpeon that is the most beautiflluy done one ive ever seen..and ive seen quite a few over the years....have never made one though...im not even sure i would know how

Edited by ladyyoung98, 03 November 2004 - 04:48 PM.

[bloviatrix]

Here's one of my many Buche de Noel's I've done over the years......I can do 'em in my sleep....

Absolutely stunning!!!

How did you make the bird?

[chefpeon]

How did you make the bird?

I fashioned him out of modeling chocolate that I colored red using a combination of powder and gel paste. I used to make a lot of birds at once. I'd weigh out little globs of modeling chocolate, so all the birds would be the same size, and then I'd quickly model the body and the head and tail out of one piece...just a few pinches and rolls here and there. Then I'd cut out the wings and texturize the wings with the back of a paring knife. Add a beak and a black "mask" and I'm done.

Oh yeah, forgot to mention that I sprinkled edible clear glitter on the top of the whole thing to give it that wintry frosty look.

Fa-la-la-la-la-la!

[nightscotsman]

Very pretty log, Anne - nice finish How did you get the coloring so realistic?

I know what you mean about the buttercream filling, way too rich and sweet. I did one with a mascarpone mousse filling and fresh raspberries. Really good with the chocolate cake soaked with framboise and ganache on the outside.

[chefpeon]

How did you get the coloring so realistic?

Just chocolate buttercream, believe it or not. I discovered that when I went over the grooves with my warm hand, it left darker streaks as I went over it, which turned out to be a PERFECT effect!
I love it when stuff works out that way.

[Tepee]

Thank you so much for the how-to! I've done some logs but always in ganache...never thought of using buttercream. Seeing yours is a great inspiration.

[Deborah]

Oh that is the prettiest Buche de Noel's that I have ever seen! Perfection!

[boulak]

Chefpeon,
You are one of the reasons I am a bread baker and not a pastry chef any longer. Your work is breath taking and inspiring. Genuflection would be appropriate in your presence.

Edited by boulak, 03 November 2004 - 07:13 PM.

[chefpeon]

Chefpeon,
You are one of the reasons I am a bread baker and not a pastry chef any longer.  Your work is breath taking and inspiring.  Genuflection would be appropriate in your presence.

Jeepers....thanks for the compliments everyone! But genuflecting?
Nah! Stop it before you hurt yourself! Send me money instead. Totally kidding.
Sort of.