183 replies to this topic

[culinary bear]

That's a fine-loking tatin...

We make individual tatins in the work kitchen... I'm afraid we cheat a little, and toss the apple pieces in a just-made (i.e. hot) butter caramel, which leaches some of the apple juices into the caramel before they're baked (it sits for half an hour to macerate in the caramel). I think it's a fair compromise.

I'll probably do a thread about the puff paste separately, but 'll more than likely have tatins to do tomorrow so I'll crack on with it then.

Edited by culinary bear, 30 January 2005 - 04:07 PM.

[Patrick S]

That looks delicious, MobyP.

[culinary bear]

I've put my little photo-essay in a new thread... hope you enjoy; this is the first photo as a trailer.

[kitwilliams]

I fear that a tatin made with danish dough would be inclined to flabbiness as the moisture from the apples precluded the full rising of the dough, and the tatin would lose its airy quality.

Also, as atraditionalist, I find the concept repellant. :)

I agree with the above comments but how about as an individual breakfast pastry, Allan? I finally got around to trying it yesterday. I had just a few organic red and golden delicious apples lying around. Halved and cooked them as per my regular Tatin, cooled, then placed one half on each square of croissant dough, bringing two corners up, overlapping the apple. Once baked, drizzled the remaining caramel over top. Crisp, flakey, sweet, buttery. I'll be making them again.

[kitwilliams]

Over in the "What to do with Red Delicious apples?" thread, I suggested Tarte Tatin -- they make a very good TT as they are starchy and hold up to long cooking times. But I was given a little bit of grief about it ( ) by none other than our own russ parsons who suggested I do a Tarte Tatin comparison.

It has now been done.

1. Two pans. Two apples (well, two types. actually used 15 of each). Pink Ladies vs. Red Delicious

2. Pink Ladies after an hour of simmering. They gave off a lot of moisture, despite the fact that I peeled them early in the morning and began cooking late afternoon.

3. Red Delicious after an hour of simmering. Did the same with these: peeled and halved these eight hours before cooking.

4. Pink Ladies finished cooking on their own prior to inverting onto puff pastry which was baked on its own (I know, I know. Sacrilege!)

5. Red Delicious coming out of the oven having been finished with pastry baked on top.

6. Two Tatins. I was truly amazed, all during the process, at how pale the Pink Ladies stayed while the Red Delicious turned, as they always do, such a beautiful caramel color. Sorry for the angle of photo. Didn't flip it prior to loading on image gullet.


In cookbook photos of Tarte Tatins, I have always been critical of pale looking tarts -- I always thought they had been undercooked. Not so. I learned today that it all depends on the apple. Fascinating.

So. My notes on taste: There is certainly more flavor from the Pink Ladies -- there is still a tart element despite the tons of sugar which often prevails. As for the crust, I really do prefer a puff pastry base baked separately, then inverting the apples onto the crust. Not only crisper but it gets baked throughout which is tough to do when baking your base directly on the apples.

But the thing about the Red Delicious TT: the texture of the apples is absolutely amazing. They are like silk. Still plenty of body, they hold their shape, they ARE missing that tart element, but oh, the mouth feel is unbelievable. The crust was slightly underdone but I've been served worse.

Both are delicious. I prefer the flavor of the Red Ladies. The mouthfeel of the Delicious. The crisp puff pastry crust baked separately which you've all ridiculed me about in previous posts ( ). So somebody tell me of an apple that will give me both the texture and the flavor I want. (Unfortunately, I'm in Southern California where we don't have the varieties available elsewhere.)

I'll see if I can decide a winner at breakfast.

And thanks for the nudge, Russ. A great project!

[russ parsons]

great report kit! nothing like actually trying things out. i'd love to find some kind of technical breakdown on cooking of apples--on what makes them hold their shape and what results in what kind of texture.

i do have one piece of food-geek apple trivia: the difference between juicy and mealy apples isn't moisture content--it's how the cells are "glued" together. juicy apples are tightly bonded so when you bite into them, the cells break. mealy apples are loosely bonded so that they break at the cell line, not leaking any juice.

geeky enough for you?

[rickster]

In cookbook photos of Tarte Tatins, I have always been critical of pale looking tarts -- I always thought they had been undercooked. Not so. I learned today that it all depends on the apple. Fascinating.

Are you sure it is the apples or is it the cooking technique (or maybe both)? I only ask because the few times I've made tarte tatin, I've found it hard to precisely control the caramelization when baked in the oven. I would think baking might yield a different result than stovetop cooking, even with the same apples.

Edited by rickster, 15 November 2006 - 04:41 PM.

[kitwilliams]

Certainly could be both, rickster. In looking at Bouchon, they used Golden Delicious and cooked it stovetop for an hour or so and in the oven for 40 minutes. The apples look closer to my Pink Lady Tatin rather than the Red Delicious - definitely toward the paler end of the scale.

In Lenotre's "Desserts Traditionells de France", the recipe recommends "...avec des golden precoces; en automne, avec des boskoops et, en hiver, avec des calvilles ou des reinettes." He calls for 30 minutes stovetop and about the same in the oven. Very, very blonde tarte in the photo. On the other hand, in his "Desserts and Pastries", he calls simply for "tart apples" and cooking stovetop for 20 minutes. He states the caramel should be "very light in color" (why???), then baking for only another 20 minutes. The photo is quite caramelized and the apples almost blackened in spots, they are so dark.

So, from this little study, we've learned that we can question whether the technique in the recipes was used for the tartes in the photos!

Edited by kitwilliams, 15 November 2006 - 09:52 PM.

[kitwilliams]

great report kit! nothing like actually trying things out. i'd love to find some kind of technical breakdown on cooking of apples--on what makes them hold their shape and what results in what kind of texture.

i do have one piece of food-geek apple trivia: the difference between juicy and mealy apples isn't moisture content--it's how the cells are "glued" together. juicy apples are tightly bonded so when you bite into them, the cells break. mealy apples are loosely bonded so that they break at the cell line, not leaking any juice.

geeky enough for you?

Good geek reply, Russ, but geek it up a notch and get working on your "technical breakdown on cooking of apples" as soon as you're done with next week's piece!

P.S. I'd be glad to help!

Edited by kitwilliams, 15 November 2006 - 10:03 PM.

[foodie3]

kitwilliams, great looking tatin!
can you please give some additional details, i.e. is this a 10" pan, how much butter and sugar you used for 15 apples, how long did you cook on the stovetop, how long and at what temp in the oven?

[lizard]

Kit, Thanks for all the research. Both look delicious!!

As a Washington State native, I have some apple-growing cousins who swear Pippin apples make for the best baking. While I haven't compared them vs. Pink Ladies, they seem to have the tartness you seek, but a starchier body like the red delicious. The only experience I've had with cooking Pink Ladies was on a grill with a honey-butter baste to supplement some granny smiths. In that situation, I found they broke down & got mushy pretty quickly in comparison to the granny's.

If you can get some Pippins, I'd encourage you to give them a whirl (if only so I can see more gorgeous pictures).

Edited by lizard, 17 November 2006 - 12:47 PM.

[jackal10]

I think the caramel should be very dark, otherwise the tart is too sickly sweet

[TarteTatin]

So, I've been working on Tatins for awhile. Best tasting results for me, and our friends, has been a really basic recipe. 4oz sugar, 4oz butter, good apples (Empires, Winesaps, whatever's good and local and in the autumn I use quinces instead of apples), some brandy, pinch of salt. I let the sugar start to carmelize while I peel and core the apples. After I start the apples on the cooktop and cook them for about 20 minutes they go into the oven at 375F for 2 - 2 1/2 hours. Cool in the refrigerator overnight or longer. Best results have been with the Le Creuset tatin pan though I've used an iron frying pan as well.

The pastry is combination of the Larousse pate sucre and pate brisee recipe.

After the apples or quinces have 'confited' overnight, I roll out the pastry, put it on top of the apples, and cook for at least 45 minutes in a 375F oven until the pastry is golden.

Edited by TarteTatin, 17 November 2006 - 08:12 PM.

[kitwilliams]

foodie3: I use a 10" pan, 2-1/2" high. Heavy aluminum. (I think I purchased them at Surfas in Los Angeles about eight years ago.) Cover bottom of pan with 325 grams of sliced butter, then top with 310 grams of sugar. Place apple halves in concentric circles on top of that. Cook stovetop for about 1/2 an hour, then POUR OFF caramel/liquid into another pan and reduce it separately, leaving apples off the heat (at this point, since apples have reduced, fit in additional apple halves). When caramel is reduced and thickened sufficiently (but don't go too far as you're going to continue cooking stovetop), pour back over apples and simmer for another hour. THEN top with pastry and bake until pastry is baked through. 375 oven, half an hour or until done.

The Pink Ladies held up beautifully. As for Pippins, they were always my mother's choice for pie and she made a great apple pie. I hadn't really thought of using them for Tatin as I like my pieces of apple REALLY BIG and Pippins tend to be smaller. I'll just look for the biggest Pippins I can find as I do think you're right, lizard. They might just be terrific.

Interesting idea, Tarte Tatin, to let the apples sit overnight... I look forward to trying it and see if it makes much of a difference. Have you ever NOT left them overnight? If so, what difference(s) have you detected? By the way, gorgeous, dark tarte you have pictured!

[foodie3]

foodie3:  I use a 10" pan, 2-1/2" high.  Heavy aluminum.  (I think I purchased them at Surfas in Los Angeles about eight years ago.)  Cover bottom of pan with 325 grams of sliced butter, then top with 310 grams of sugar.  Place apple halves in concentric circles on top of that.  Cook stovetop for about 1/2 an hour, then POUR OFF caramel/liquid into another pan and reduce it separately, leaving apples off the heat (at this point, since apples have reduced, fit in additional apple halves).  When caramel is reduced and thickened sufficiently (but don't go too far as you're going to continue cooking stovetop), pour back over apples and simmer for another hour.  THEN top with pastry and bake until pastry is baked through.  375 oven, half an hour or until done. 

The Pink Ladies held up beautifully.  As for Pippins, they were always my mother's choice for pie and she made a great apple pie.  I hadn't really thought of using them for Tatin as I like my pieces of apple REALLY BIG and Pippins tend to be smaller.  I'll just look for the biggest Pippins I can find as I do think you're right, lizard.  They might just be terrific.

Interesting idea, Tarte Tatin, to let the apples sit overnight... I look forward to trying it and see if it makes much of a difference.  Have you ever NOT left them overnight?  If so, what difference(s) have you detected?  By the way, gorgeous, dark tarte you have pictured!

kitwilliams, thanks for clarification, i like your idea of baking puff pastry separately.

[kitwilliams]

kitwilliams, thanks for clarification, i like your idea of baking puff pastry separately.

thanks, foodie3! try it and tell me what you think, as others here (you know who you are! ) have called me a traitor to tradition!

[TarteTatin]

Mr. Tarte Tatin entered a BBQ Rib grilling contest yesterday in Philadelphia.
For the additional "anything goes" category, he GRILLED two Tarte Tatins!
Yes, you heard it right!
We had our grills set up at our station. Brought apples, unsprayed winesaps from our friends backyard in Bucks County, Pa.
Peeled/cored them, he did whatever he did with butter and sugar, and put them into two different sized cast iron skillets onto the charcoal grill. After however long, he took them off and let them sit there and confit.
He then rolled out the pastry he'd made the night before, and topped the apples.
Cooked some more, took them off the grill, and flipped them perfectly.
Same apples for both. The larger cast iron pan came out with more dark apples.
They weren't quite as caramel/butterscotchy as normal, but still so delicious!

And, can you believe, even though the judges had never seen or tasted grilled tarte tatin, and we got an honorable mention for it, that he lost to jalapeno poppers???!!
Unbelievable.

[Abra]

Jalapeno poppers, jeepers!

Can we talk about quince tatin? There are gorgeous quinces everywhere now and I'm longing to tatin some. Since they're so firm and take so long to cook, how should I get them to perfection?

[foodie3]

bumping up this topic.
i made my tatin recently and was pleased with the result as far as the appearance and the taste, but as soon as the tarte cooled off, i noticed a large amount of solidified butter, where i expected to see caramel. i used 150gr butter and 200gr sugar for 9-10 apples, should i reduce the amount of butter in the future?

[alanamoana]

Jalapeno poppers, jeepers!

Can we talk about quince tatin?  There are gorgeous quinces everywhere now and I'm longing to tatin some.  Since they're so firm and take so long to cook, how should I get them to perfection?

i've never done it, but i would consider lightly poaching them first in a spiced syrup, then putting them into a tatin

[Dave Hatfield]

I promised somebody some time ago to do a photo recipe of "Old Fashioned Tarte Tatin".

I've finally got it done.

The recipe can be seen on my blog. Address below.

Enjoy.

[Underfoot]

I hope people are still interested in this topic! Anyway, I read through this whole thread a few weeks ago when my dad requested I make "one of those french apple tarts with the puffy crusts." I figured out that this was what he meant and set about to trying to find the best way to do it.

So I will probably never be able to do anything "perfectly" but to have a little fun I decided to test out four different apples in four miniature tarte tatins. Pictures follow.


I started with this "puff paste" recipe from my 1946 version of the joy of cooking, chosen just for fun. By the way, does anyone know the derivation of puff paste-->pastry?


Sadly I am pretty ill-equipped (as we will see later on as well) and I had to use this bottle of mixer covered in plastic wrap as a rolling pin. How typical of a college student.


The recipe actually had an interesting technique where one kneads the butter underneath cold running tap water. I can only postulate as to what the purpose of this was, incorporation of water? Making the butter more malleable while keeping it cold?


I bought four different apples at Whole Foods, from left to right: Braeburn, Jonagold, Winesap, Ambrosia.


I prepped them in the way suggested upthread by culinary bear.


I made caramel in a large pan and tried to distribute it equally among the pans. These were the only things I could find that fit the criteria of: small, roughly the same size, and bakeable. Again, left to right: Braeburn, Jonagold, Winesap, Ambrosia.


I put them in one by one, once I had laid the puff pastry on top, so you can see the slightly different states of the puff pastry. I actually got really excited by this and took a little bit of a photo montage:



I'd love to see some stop-motion photography of this. Man I'm such a nerd.

Anyway, moving along they all came out eventually with only minor readjustments correcting absconding apple slices.
WARNING: bad lighting ahead, terribly sorry.

Ambrosia

Braeburn

Winesap

Jonagold

Among the taste-testers (about 7), the Winesap was most popular because of how the apple's structure held up, it seemed to have a finer structure than the others, it was had a more subtle, fruity flavor. The runner-up was Braeburn, it held up in the same way as the Winesap, but lacked the flavor nuances. nothing much to say about the Jonagold except that it was a pretty boring apple. The Ambrosia smelled and tasted great raw, but as its juicy nature belied, it broke down under pressure (or is that heat?) and was way too mushy and a little too sweet for this presentation. It was also interesting to see that the Winesap oxidized immediately while the other apples took a little while.

I definitely enjoyed collecting opinions and noting the differences between these varietes when raw and when cooked. I hope this report helps somebody make their decisions about how to make their own tarte tatin, because there certainly are a lot of opinions on the best way to do it!

**edited for consistency**

Edited by Underfoot, 04 December 2007 - 01:55 AM.

[gfron1]

Great report underfoot - thanks for taking the time to do it. They really came out great and its making me regret not ordering one last night at my dinner (went for a Napoleon instead).

[David Ross]

My Tarte Tatin is a combination of my own pastry recipe combined with a recipe for the apples out of the Saveur Cooks Authentic French Cookbook. You cook the apples down on day one, let the apple cool overnight which brings the apple and caramel together, then you layer on the pastry and do the final baking on day two.

Apples
2 sticks unsalted butter, cut into pieces
10-12 Granny Smith apples, peeled, cored and cut in half
1 ½ cups granulated sugar

Pastry
2 1/3 cups all purpose flour
1/3 cup cake flour
1 tbsp. superfine granulated sugar
½ tsp. salt
1 stick unsalted butter, chilled, cut into pieces
½ cup Crisco shortening, chilled, cut into pieces
½ cup ice water

Heat oven to 400°. Heat a 10-12" round and 2-3" deep heavy ovenproof non-stick skillet over medium heat. Add butter to skillet and melt. Add sugar to skillet and stir with butter until sugar is melted. Remove from heat and arrange apples side by side in skillet.

Place skillet in oven and let cook for 1 hour or until apples are soft and puffy. Remove skillet from oven and let cool to room temperature. Cover skillet with foil and refrigerate overnight. This lets the apples cool down into the caramelized sugar.

To make the pastry, combine flour, cake flour, sugar and salt in a large bowl and stir to mix. Using a pastry cutter, cut in butter and Crisco into small pea size bits. Mix in enough ice water with a fork until the pastry comes together. Form pastry into a ball and cover completely with plastic wrap. Refrigerate pastry for at least one hour before using.

To complete the Tarte Tatin, heat oven to 350°. Take the the skillet and the pastry from the refrigerator. Roll out the pastry to 1/8" thickness. Gently place the pastry over the apples in the skillet. Trim edge of pastry so that about ½" overhangs skillet. Press in edges of pastry to inside of skillet.

Bake skillet in oven just until pastry is golden, about 20 minutes. Remove from oven and let cool for 10 minutes.

To unmold the Tarte Tatin, place a plate over the top of skillet and carefully turn over the skillet. The Tarte Tatin should easily invert onto the plate. Cut into wedges and serve warm with a scoop of Vanilla Ice Cream.

[Underfoot]

Great report underfoot - thanks for taking the time to do it.  They really came out great and its making me regret not ordering one last night at my dinner (went for a Napoleon instead).

Thank you for reading it! Though I think I still haven't worked up the courage to burn my caramel properly, but I look forward to doing it next time. Maybe you can live out your dessert desires vicariously through the pictures posted here...?

[Katie Meadow]

What kind of pan is best?

My SIL baked a tarte tatin which was one of the best desserts I have every eaten. She's a very good baker, and this was really out of this world. I don't do a lot of baking, but my husband gives good crust, so we are going to take the leap. She gave me the recipe, and clearly I have no pan that works. Her recipe--and several others I have looked at--calls for a 12 inch non-stick oven-proof skillet with curved sides that are at least 1.75 inches high. Her pan looked like a restaurant fry skillet. I own mainly cast iron, enamel and stainless cookwear, and nothing even resembling this type of pan. A workhorse skillet in this size would be nice to have anyway--an early holiday gift for myself.

What kind of surface should I get? I own no non-stick pans. What exactly does that mean, anyway? I assume non-stick has evolved since the days of teflon, but I am clueless. Should the pan be aluminum? Can I find this perhaps at a giant restaurant supply place or will I have to pony up for something from Sur la Table? What to buy?

[Dave Hatfield]

Don't worry too much about the pan. Any frying pan that's over one inch deep will do. A 12 inch skillet is much too large. Try 8 inch or at the most 10" otherwise it will be too unwieldy. All you have to worry about is that the handle will take the high heat when you finish off in the oven. If necessary I've found that just leaving the oven door slightly ajar with the handle sticking out works pretty well.

In all due modesty try my recipe. Which you can find right here.

Its a combination of several recipes that I've played with over the last 20 years. Its tried & proven in multiple attempts.

All I can say is that our French friends love it. They say that I must have been a Frenchman in a previous life. I'm flattered!

[Katie Meadow]

Thanks, Dave, your recipe looks great and a pictorial is always welcome. My SIL's recipe does indeed call for enough apples and pastry for a 12 inch pan, which is what she uses. She made it for my in-law's anniversary dinner and it served 12.

[Dave Hatfield]

Thanks, Dave, your recipe looks great and a pictorial is always welcome. My SIL's recipe does indeed call for enough apples and pastry for a 12 inch pan, which is what she uses. She made it for my in-law's anniversary dinner and it served 12.

Not saying that a 12" skillet can't be done, but its a challenge. Especially for one just starting to make tarte tatin.

I can't say that I've seen many 12 inchers her in France. Two 8" tarts would be somewhat over the square inches of one 12" tart and maybe easier to make??

I'll be interested to see how you proceed.

[David Ross]

My Tarte Tatin is a combination of my own pastry recipe combined with a recipe for the apples out of the Saveur Cooks Authentic French Cookbook.  You cook the apples down on day one, let the apple cool overnight which brings the apple and caramel together, then you layer on the pastry and do the final baking on day two. 

Apples
2 sticks unsalted butter, cut into pieces
10-12 Granny Smith apples, peeled, cored and cut in half
1 ½ cups granulated sugar

Pastry
2 1/3 cups all purpose flour
1/3 cup cake flour
1 tbsp. superfine granulated sugar
½ tsp. salt
1 stick unsalted butter, chilled, cut into pieces
½ cup Crisco shortening, chilled, cut into pieces
½ cup ice water

Heat oven to 400°. Heat a 10-12" round and 2-3" deep heavy ovenproof non-stick skillet over medium heat. Add butter to skillet and melt. Add sugar to skillet and stir with butter until sugar is melted. Remove from heat and arrange apples side by side in skillet.

Place skillet in oven and let cook for 1 hour or until apples are soft and puffy. Remove skillet from oven and let cool to room temperature. Cover skillet with foil and refrigerate overnight. This lets the apples cool down into the caramelized sugar.

To make the pastry, combine flour, cake flour, sugar and salt in a large bowl and stir to mix. Using a pastry cutter, cut in butter and Crisco into small pea size bits. Mix in enough ice water with a fork until the pastry comes together. Form pastry into a ball and cover completely with plastic wrap. Refrigerate pastry for at least one hour before using.

To complete the Tarte Tatin, heat oven to 350°. Take the the skillet and the pastry from the refrigerator. Roll out the pastry to 1/8" thickness. Gently place the pastry over the apples in the skillet. Trim edge of pastry so that about ½" overhangs skillet. Press in edges of pastry to inside of skillet.

Bake skillet in oven just until pastry is golden, about 20 minutes. Remove from oven and let cool for 10 minutes.

To unmold the Tarte Tatin, place a plate over the top of skillet and carefully turn over the skillet. The Tarte Tatin should easily invert onto the plate. Cut into wedges and serve warm with a scoop of Vanilla Ice Cream.

I recently modified my recipe and found the results even better than the above.

I changed the apple variety from Granny Smith to Pinova. The Pinova seems to be less tart than the Granny Smith and needs less sugar. It also holds it's shape better than the Granny Smith.

Instead of laying the apples halves down lengthwise per the above photo, I stacked them on end. It gave the Tatin more height and filled the skillet with more apples.

I added about 1 tablespoon of corn syrup to the butter and sugar mixture to help in the caramelization of the apples.

In my previous recipe I called for a non-stick skillet. This time I went back to the old tried and true black, cast iron, 3" deep skillet. Worked like a charm with no problems turning the Tatin out of the skillet.

Sorry, didn't get any photos this time around, but that only means I'll have to bake another Tatin just to show off.

I want a slice of Mr. Hatfield's Tatin. Looks delicious.