152 replies to this topic

[friedclams]

I wonder if there's a way to get a copy of the full keyboard from a BK POS terminal, or even better a list of all the pre-programmed options.

FG,
In my time at BK, POS was standardized with a full specification and there were multiple approved hardware/software vendors... each vendor's POS implementation was slightly different. The corporate restaurants all used one vendor's POS (IBM at that time) and franchisees tended to choose the approved hardware/software vendor which met their price/performance profile.

I can't speak for how their standardization/specs have changed, eg, the POS designs I'm familiar with didn't print HIYW on every item...

eG foodies can ask the restaurant manager which vendor provides their POS system...I suspect that all corporate restaurants continue to source their POS from one vendor and franchisees choose their own. Each vendor's POS keyboard/key layout is different and a factor used by some franchisees to choose one vendor over another (for speed of service consideration).

I personally think that printing HIYW on evey item is unnecessary clutter and confusing. It doesn't seem to be tied to any current marketing/advertising plan. The first ticket example FG customized the sandwich; FG's second example customized the meal NOT the sandwich. I don't believe this is a philosophical statement but rather a visual aid to the order taker/order assembler so assure the "customized" items are retrieved from each cooking/drink station or chute and given to the customer as a matter of order accuracy

[hillbill]

I personally think that printing HIYW on evey item is unnecessary clutter and confusing.  It doesn't seem to be tied to any current marketing/advertising plan. The first ticket example FG customized the sandwich; FG's second example customized the meal NOT the sandwich.  I don't believe this is a philosophical statement but rather a visual aid to the order taker/order assembler so assure the "customized" items are retrieved from each cooking/drink station or chute and given to the customer as a matter of order accuracy

Interesting. So much for my corporate philosophy conspiracy theory. But I'm not sure if I follow the logic of the use of HIYW. Are you saying that the HIYW is there because each of those items is "customized?" I don't understand from looking at the ticket what is "customized."

[=Mark]

how can one deny the delicious simplicity of the BK double hamburger, or the salty sweetness of the Sante Fe chicken sandwich?

Uh.

The second looks like the inside of a handkerchef.

Gah! Jinmyo! What you been blowin outta your nose lately?

[friedclams]

Actually, according to J. McLamore's autobiography, the original piece-of-crap Insta-burger-broiler was used for some time in the mid-fifties until they became fed-up with it and designed a new one. They then invested lots of money in designing and building the things themselves instead of out-sourcing like McD.

Jim was a great guy to talk to about the early years. My original point was that BK always used some type of broiler, crap or not... The broiler is of BK proprietary design but built by a public equipment company.

FC,

The original redesigned broilers were indeed built in-house, at least early-on. In fact, so was much of the stainless equipment in the stores. My point was BK corporate spent large amounts starting-up in-house fabrication operations when the McDonald's method was to let the supplier design and prototype with the carrot dangling of all that future business. BTW, the original McD Fish sandwich was developed by someone working at Gorton's who spent over a year developing it.

BTW, I'm really enjoying your posts.

PJ

PJ,
BK indeed held on to many of its home grown component parts until the 90s whilst owned by Grand Metropolitan and run by Barry Gibbons. During strategic business and restaurant of the future exercises it was decided to divest most of the component parts, eg, their wholly owned distribution company was spun off to become a separate company.

Outsourcing became the mantra. The food side of the business was leaned down to a core group of food techologists and equipment specialists who developed close ties with external vendors to develop product and restaurant equipment. This leaned down approach was also applied to IT and marketing. I remember the tears when most of the original menu developers/food techies were let go. The separate research and training building on the Miami campus looked like a ghost town.

Strategic exercises, customer and product analyses concluded that BK's menu was all over the place (remember BK pizza and mexican food??.... how about HIYW pizza at BK???) and that the customer could accept sandwiches of lower quality. Those were the days when BK was suffering market share to McD and Wendys and lacked a unique identity in the customer's mind (McD's marketing spending was astronomically high compared to BK). From those days forward BK has focused it marketing a simplified core menu of sandwiches to it focused customer group (I'll let eG readers guess who they are... hint, they're NOT eG foodies) with food items whose cost to produce has been reduced through food techology innovation, eg, in the 90s it was nearly impossible to offer a 99cent Whopper or any other burger sandwich without loss, now its a relatively commonplace.

The hamburger restaurant business is continues to be difficult to maintain a profit for its owners. BK has been sold off and leaned out by each of its owners since the original company was sold as a way to make up for restaurant profit slack. It took awhile for BK to be sold to its current investor group (there's not much left now other than the corporate restaurant and franchise revenue stream for investors to fall back on if restaurant sales slack off). Who can guess how the new management will change BK. Current market pressures by the food police have shown some flexibility outside the core menu with in-store finished baking (requiring capital investment) and focus on low-er fat chicken sandwiches.

BK still wins my taste test for customized off the broiler convenient flame grilled meat sandwiches that I can find worldwide wherever I travel to vs. the competitor flat grilled no-flame burgers. I've forgotten forever the 60s, 70s, 80s BK fresh meat flame broiled USA meat and fresh-tasty condiments of my youth. My reality is that I rarely if ever go into BK anymore.

I'm a proud eG foodie now.

Edited by Jason Perlow, 06 February 2006 - 05:34 PM.

[friedclams]

I personally think that printing HIYW on evey item is unnecessary clutter and confusing.  It doesn't seem to be tied to any current marketing/advertising plan. The first ticket example FG customized the sandwich; FG's second example customized the meal NOT the sandwich.  I don't believe this is a philosophical statement but rather a visual aid to the order taker/order assembler so assure the "customized" items are retrieved from each cooking/drink station or chute and given to the customer as a matter of order accuracy

Interesting. So much for my corporate philosophy conspiracy theory. But I'm not sure if I follow the logic of the use of HIYW. Are you saying that the HIYW is there because each of those items is "customized?" I don't understand from looking at the ticket what is "customized."

HB,
Customized in this context relates to how the order or order component differs from the standard menu item. FG example, if I'm interpreting the ticket correctly, shows a Value Meal which usually includes a sandwich, regular size fries and regular size drink. FG's ticket shows a LARGE fries and LARGE drink which is not the standard Value Meal menu item. I'm interpreting the HIYW on those ticket items to indicate to the order assembler to LOOK for and RETRIEVE items he/she normally wouldn't retrieve to fulfill a Value Meal.

Ditto for FG's first ticket which shows a customized, ie, non-standard Whopper/CHS sandwich. The HIYW is a quick visual clue for the order retriever to LOOK FOR a customized sandwich NOT a regular Whopper/CHS.

This is my interpretation.

FC

[hillbill]

HB,
Customized in this context relates to how the order or order component differs from the standard menu item.  FG example, if I'm interpreting the ticket correctly, shows a Value Meal which usually includes a sandwich, regular size  fries and regular size drink.  FG's ticket shows a LARGE fries and LARGE drink which is not the standard Value Meal menu item.  I'm interpreting the HIYW on those ticket items to indicate to the order assembler to LOOK for and RETRIEVE items he/she normally wouldn't retrieve to fulfill a Value Meal.

Ditto for FG's first ticket which shows a customized, ie, non-standard Whopper/CHS sandwich.  The HIYW is a quick visual clue for the order retriever to LOOK FOR a customized sandwich NOT a regular Whopper/CHS.

This is my interpretation. 

FC

So if one ordered a value meal and didn't super-size or customize there wouldn't be any HIYWs?

I wonder how well it works, thinking that visual reminders ostensibly lose their value with familiarity (i.e. the note taped to the front door saying "remember to take lunch" that becomes forgotten after a week or two.)

Edited by Jason Perlow, 06 February 2006 - 05:34 PM.

[friedclams]

hillbill,Oct 17 2003, 01:31 PM]FC
So if one ordered a value meal and didn't super-size or customize there wouldn't be any HIYWs?

I wonder how well it works, thinking that visual reminders ostensibly lose their value with familiarity (i.e. the note taped the front door saying "remember to take lunch" that becomes forgotten after a week or two.)

HB,
This would be a logical POS design... but the theory has to be tested by someone (FG?) going back to the same restaurant and ordering standard menu items to see if the ticket hasn't got HIYW on those standard menu items.

Order accuracy and speed of service are key drivers to fast food restaurant success. Workers, often speaking limited English are taught to look for word-symbols like HIYW...

success is up to the restaurant manager and how well he/she trains the crew to fill the order fast and accurately. At some franchise restaurants there are speed of service timer/clocks which provide emperical measures used to grade the drive-thru crew.

HIYW slows speed of service but is considered OK because HIYW is a customer request.
Order accuracy is always the restaurant's responsibility.

Ultimately, BK order accuracy of whats in the bag is the responsibility of the customer to verify before leaving the counter.

FC

[elyse]

how can one deny the delicious simplicity of the BK double hamburger, or the salty sweetness of the Sante Fe chicken sandwich?

Uh.

The second looks like the inside of a handkerchef.

Gah! Jinmyo! What you been blowin outta your nose lately?

Yes, Jin. This has been haunting me for days. Excellent.

[KatieLoeb]

how can one deny the delicious simplicity of the BK double hamburger, or the salty sweetness of the Sante Fe chicken sandwich?

Uh.

The second looks like the inside of a handkerchef.

Gah! Jinmyo! What you been blowin outta your nose lately?

Yes, Jin. This has been haunting me for days. Excellent.

Yeah - what they said and what I said two pages ago. GAH!

[elyse]

I was concentrating on forgetting.

[Jinmyo]

how can one deny the delicious simplicity of the BK double hamburger, or the salty sweetness of the Sante Fe chicken sandwich?

Uh.

The second looks like the inside of a handkerchef.

Gah! Jinmyo! What you been blowin outta your nose lately?

Yes, Jin. This has been haunting me for days. Excellent.

Yeah - what they said and what I said two pages ago. GAH!

Just how manky is it?

But it's not my manky hanky; it's tommy's, I think.

[elyse]

[Toliver]

In the midst of their "Wake up with the King" advertising campaign comes another real winner:
ChickenFight.com
I saw the commercial for this over the weekend. In the commercial, giant-sized chickens wearing shorts and brandishing boxing gloves are wholloping the heck out of guys in a boxing ring. The gist of it is that these chickens are in training for the ultimate match against each other.
Apparently, there's room for only one chicken (sandwich) at BK and they want people to go online to vote for the one that should stay. A surprising number of people apparently have a lot of free time on their hands judging by the number of votes posted for each chicken.
There's not much to the website, just click to vote. Move the cursor over each chicken head to hear an announcer.
And who would of thought I would ever in my lifetime type a sentence like that...
I won't mention the Mexican wrestler movies (see the chicken heads on the website)/hispanic cockfight theme this commercial has...I hope it's a matter of reading more into than was really there.

[wilewil]

I remember, I think, that in the early 60's when I worked at BK the whoppers were square and thicker. They were cooked on a char grill located in the counter. The counter had stools on the customer side. The shake machine was itself a whopper, occupying a separate glass inclosed room at the end of the counter. It had lots of plastic tubes etc.

My job was to clean that monster shake room each nite about midnite. In return I got free food all day! College student's dream job.

As an aside, the best meals I had there were after midnite when we would sometimes cook steak or chicken from the local grocery on that grill.

Even then the fixings were "have it your way".

Edited by wilewil, 18 October 2004 - 11:35 AM.

[Chrisser]

pressed with a spatula so that the outside edges have a crispy brown component.

And so that all the tasty juices have flowed out as well?



Anyone seen the BK chicken gimmick? www.subservientchicken.com

Edited by Chrisser, 18 October 2004 - 12:05 PM.

[FistFullaRoux]

Jimyo's hanky comment has been stalking my dreams since I read it for the first time last year.

[Squeat Mungry]

There's not much to the website, just click to vote.  Move the cursor over each chicken head to hear an announcer. 
And who would of thought I would ever in my lifetime type a sentence like that... 

This reminded me of the late Herb Caen's (I think it was him) vision of puzzled future archeologists trying to put together a picture of life in the 20th century based upon such bits of evidence as a piece of a red and orange plastic sign reading, "Please speak into clown's mouth"! (Actual quote from the Jack-in-the-Box drive-through menus back before they "blew up their clowns", which of course was well before they brought one back from the dead and made him CEO.)

[Chud62120798]

107 postings for a discussion about fast f*****g food. Now that's not just manky, it's boggin. Doesn't anyone want to talk about how they made their own fois gras without the significant other getting suspicious about the squealing and squalking coming from the walk in closet?
P.S. The Great Aunt in Rhode Island used to make hamburgers by grinding up filet mignon. Go figure.
P.S.S. Harvey's makes a Hambuger ....a beautiful thing.™

[Chud62120798]

That's hamburger..."hambugger" is a top secret movie in pre-production with top secret stars....all vegan and ....ow! stop hitting me...*thunk*

[Jason Perlow]

To celebrate the successful launching of my personal (Food, Technology and general Jason-ness commentary) blog, Off The Broiler, Rachel and I made our semi-annual visit to Burger King, in order to partake in some fast food goodness and to cause POS-system trainee mayhem.



Order #1: Whopper With Cheese (No Onion, Extra Pickle, Off The Broiler, Cut In Half), Angus Cheezy Bacon Steakburger (Off The Broiler)



Order #2. Double Whopper (No Onion, Extra Pickle X2, Off The Broiler, Cut In Half)

We arrived at around 8:40 in the evening, with few people in the restaurant, in order to ensure good service.

I will say that "Having it Your Way" definitely adds major improvement to the overall burger experience, but there are some caveats. Rachel's first Whopper with Cheese came out a little cold, probably because the completed patty was waiting for my burger to be completed and then the cold vegetable matter added on top of it brought its temperature down more so. However, the lettuce and tomato was fresh and the burger did taste better overall because it was prepared fresh. I also specified on both orders that they do not use the microwave to bring the burger up to temperature after the patties were broiled and waited to be sandwiched -- apparently, this is normal operating procedure at Burger King because the burgers do cool down rather quickly after cooking and if you have more than one sandwich in your order to be prepared, the patties will wait in sequential order to be re-freshened in the nuke box.

The Angus Cheesy Bacon Steakburger just had too much crap on it, and the "Angus" burger itself texturally didn't seem like much of an improvement over the traditional Whopper patty. In fact, because it was thicker may have actually contributed it to tasting LESS flame broiled. Still, it tasted fresher because it was an Off The Broiler burger.

The Third and most successful burger, which was ordered separately after we consumed the first two, combined the perfect synergy of meatiness and broiled-ness, while at the same time provided the simplicity and traditional Burger King-istic-ness we were really longing for -- this was a Double Whopper, No Cheese, No Onion, Double Double Pickle, Off the Broiler, Cut In Half. For starters, "Cut In Half", while likely to annoy the staff if you ask for it during a busy lunch hour, definitely improves the experience because its easier to share and also won't make your hands and clothing a complete mess while trying to eat the thing, particularly if you are condiment-heavy. The double-patty Whopper came out piping hot (due to it being a single sandwich order) and because each patty was cooked separately as opposed to a larger single-patty of the angus, resulted in increased flame broiler surface area and a more charcoal-ey taste. The "no-cheese" and lack of other distracting condiments endemic of the "specialty" burgers (other than the mayo and lettuce, tomato and ketchup) really brought out the flavor of the innate burger-ness, and the Extra-Extra pickle added the appropriate amount of brinyness to contrast with the larger amount of meat.

All in all, a very pleasant Burger King experience, and we'll be back, ready to traumatize the trainees again.

NOTE: It appears that Burger King has yet again changed their POS system, so "HIYW" is no longer depicted after every line item on the receipts.

[burgerjunkie]

Just found this site a few weeks ago and this helped out a bunch.
Though the last post was back in 04 and a bunch has changed as far as some BK locations doing what youve asked.
For those of you that said your burger was pipin hot when you ordered it OTB they must of microed the burger. In my area the burger might be about 110* when ordered OTB so I can see why BK micro's the burger to bring it up to temp per food safety guidlines. They state beef must be cooked to 160* and kept @ 140* so if the burger is only 110* when comming OTB they really need to micro the burger to bring it up to temp to within food safety guidlines. Though at one loaction when I ask for it OTB and do not micro it they will do as I ask with no problem. One of the other locations in my area it's a different story and have talked to BK Corporate about it to see if I might be in the wrong. According to them I was in the right so they should be able to do my order as I ask and should start a "New" order at that point no matter if some patties just came off a few monents before and put a uncooked burger on the broiler.
When I order I first state that my order will be a special order then I ask for the burger to be done Fresh Off The Broiler, Minus the pickle, Minus the Onions, and since it's OTB not to micro the burger, and the burger to be cut in half. In one location they have never messed up and will do as I ask. The burger at that location does taste better but it's not very hot at all about 110* which is fine since I really dont wnat my lettuce wilted. The other location they seem to think that a few minutes is still OTB or if they just came OTB that that is just fine. On the contrary it's not and according to BK Corporate they Have TO start a new order and Flame broil a uncooked burger and run it through the broiler as stated no matter if they just came off just a few seconds before.
The bad news is that the one lcoation that does my order correct is on the other side of town and the one that doesnt is close to my house. So it looks like Im going to conatct the owners and complain to them and see if that helps. If not I guess Ill have to go to the other location.
Burgerjunkie

[Holly Moore]

A double cheese Whopper, hot off the broiler, back when BK had their flame broil conveyor broilers was a great hamburger. McDonald's and the others had nothing to compare.

In the early 70's, when I did regional marketing for BK in metro New York, it was a point of personal pride that I could do 70 down the LIE while eating a double cheese Whopper, and not get a crumb or drip on my shirt. That was back when I considered grease stains a bad thing.

My other crowning achievement, as long as we're talking about the King and I, was running the Grand Opening for Burger King's first Manhattan restaurant - a converted Horn and Hardart on 58th or 59th Street just off Central Park. We threw a Whopper eating contest between the Jets and the Giants. Marve Albert did the bite by bite announcing and an unknown kid by the name of Andy Kaufman was the referee, complete with blaring whistle. We made the Today Show and the back page of the Daily News - and I got to spend a couple of expensed weeks at the Plaza. Those were the days.

Edited by Holly Moore, 14 August 2008 - 10:35 AM.

[CDRFloppingham]

As a high school student, I worked at BK for a couple summers back in the early 80's.

It was all as previously described for that era.

Burgers were broiled, mated with bun, and placed in the steamer.

Upon an order, the bottom was nuked and top assembled. Pull the bottom, add ketchup (Heinz), onion, pickle, top with assembled top bun and wrap. Only ingredients that were appropriate for nuking were nuked.

We were told to discourage "off the broiler" because it slowed down operations.

I remember at least one guy not wanting any nuking because he thought it would give him cancer.

Good times.

[rooftop1000]

Back in the '80s we had one customer that wanted their burger nuked on 5 and then on 3 and no he didnt think it was funny when we nuked it on 8
hey 5 and 3 make 8 right?...also make a burger into a hockey puck


tracey

[tino27]

For some odd reason, this thread popped into my head tonight and I decided to try a Whopper "off the broiler". I stopped eating BK beef a while ago because I just found it to be, how shall I put this, um, just not very good. So after reading earlier posts about "off the broiler" being the way to go, I thought I would give it a second go.

Surprisingly enough, the cashier taking my order had heard of "off the broiler" and took it in stride. In fact, I could hear the assembly line crew talking about "off the broiler". I was mildly excited about the possibilities, until I tasted it.

Friends, don't kid yourself. It tasted exactly as bad as a burger that wasn't "off the broiler".

This burger may have had it's hay day in the 60's and 70's, but this is just one burger I can't do anymore, microwaved or otherwise.

[Toliver]

Burger King is being sued by its franchise owners for forcing them to sell the double cheeseburger for $1. The franchises are losing money on the burger:
Burger King campaign leads to lawsuit

[PopsicleToze]

I don't buy many burgers -- but find myself going through drive-thrus for large Diet Cokes at least once or twice a week. $2 for the large soft drink I'm pretty sure is mostly profit. I know I shouldn't do it, or even drink them, but one has to have some vices, and it's one of my lesser vices, so I ignore it.

Rhonda

[gfweb]

diet coke is good for you compared to the sugar loaded real thing.

[Toliver]

diet coke is good for you compared to the sugar loaded real thing.

Not to go too far off topic, but diet sodas may not be that good for you, if you believe this article:
"Diet Sodas May Be Hard on the Kidneys"
A supposed 30% decline in kidney function is alarming, if true.
I would hope the next test would be to see if the decline in kidney function can be attributed to all sodas or just diet sodas which could determine it's not the artificial sweetner causing the kidney function decline but can be attributed to some other ingredient in the sodas.

Getting back on topic, I wonder if other fast food chain franchises (McD's, Wendy's, etc) are facing the same financial dilemma with their $1 double cheeseburgers.

[gfweb]

there are so many ways that these sorts of study can be misleading. The soda could be an epiphenomenon... a factor that is linked but not causal. For example fat hypertensive people try to lose weight by drinking diet soda. Obesity ad hypertension are both causes of kidney damage and the diet cola just a marker for the real risk factor. Another issue is that there are many different sweeteners of varying structure and presumably potentially varying effects on the kidney. The study did not appear to differentiate. If all were of equal renal risk then that is strong inference that they finding is an epiphenomenon.

I have plenty of examples of bogus statistical correlation eg rock music and oil production...banana imports and genital cancer etc etc

I'd wait for confirmation.