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Burger King


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#61 SobaAddict70

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Posted 16 October 2003 - 09:33 AM

I have received microwaved toppings.  It's hard to describe how nasty microwaved mayo is.  Bleah.  Maybe that particular BK is clueless.

I believe you.

This method is the same, btw, for their chicken and fish sandwiches. Chicken or fish patties are fried in the same fryer as the fries, then held in the steamer. Their corresponding buns are usually freshly toasted (friedclams, correct me if I'm wrong?) and not held.

If the sandwiches have been held in the steamer for a while and the customer does not specify freshly made, they are then nuked in the microwave while the top half is prepped (mayonnaise, lettuce and other toppings for chicken sandwiches; tartar sauce, lettuce and other toppings for the fish sandwiches. As I have not been in a BK for a lengthy amount of time, "other" means whatever toppings that sandwich requires. If the sandwich has cheese in it, the cheese gets laid on top of the chicken or fish, and gets nuked as the top half is prepped.)

It may have been that that server was careless when you received your sandwiches Heather. I would've brought the oversight to the attention of the manager.

Soba

#62 tommy

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Posted 16 October 2003 - 09:36 AM

IIRC, from the 2 days i worked at BK, we were told to never nuke the mayo, as there was this thought that it would kill you. i suppose they've relaxed that rule.

#63 SobaAddict70

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Posted 16 October 2003 - 09:44 AM

Never mind not nuking the mayo...

There is a rule which requires preppers to stir the mayo and tartar sauce occasionally, like once every so often (I've forgotten why so maybe someone can clarify). Can't be anything more disgusting than using mayo or tartar sauce that has a skin developed on top (much like the "skin" that forms as milk simmers.)

Soba

#64 Fat Guy

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Posted 16 October 2003 - 11:10 AM

I've just returned from my follow-up visit to Burger King store #11548 on 86th Street between Third and Second Avenues in Manhattan.

I timed my arrival for what I predicted to be the apex of the NYC lunch rush: exactly 1pm. (In the rest of the country, this would seem late, but New Yorkers tend to eat on a later schedule than most Americans, in my experience.) There was a 9-minute line; I think I did indeed hit the place during the rush.

Expecting the worst -- I was operating fully under the Tommy hypothesis -- I nonchalantly stated my order, "Whopper meal, with cheese, large, off the broiler, cut in half, fries, diet."

To which the cashier replied, after unflinchingly pushing several buttons on the POS terminal, "Anything else?"

It took around 10 minutes to process the order. It was somewhat amusing to see a single beef patty emerge out of that massive broiling contraption. There was a bit of discussion of the order in the "kitchen" and the manager did eventually have to participate in the wrapping of the Whopper. To the staff's credit, they held off on assembling the rest of my order until the Whopper was "up."

Well, this Whopper off the broiler was markedly superior to any Whopper I've had in recent memory. Though the meat's characteristics were still rather dull, this was a totally acceptable burger product. Much juicier than the standard Whopper, piping hot, no "steamed" characteristics imparted by the holding trays and microwave, and with a legitimate real burger taste. The lettuce and tomato were crisp and cool.

The burger was indeed cut in half and double-wrapped so each half could easily be consumed while driving or in other situations where only one hand is available.

I was not able to observe any microwaving, because the restaurant was so heavily geared up for lunch production, so I don't have a report on that.

The thing that struck me as particularly ironic, though -- bearing in mind that this whole conversation stems from the Rick Bayless endorsement of the Santa Fe Fire Grilled Chicken Baguette -- is that a properly prepared Whopper is a much better sandwich than any of Burger King's allegedly healthful chicken concoctions. If you leave the mayo off a Whopper, it only runs 200 calories more than a Santa Fe Fire Grilled Chicken Baguette (350 v. 550), and it is needless to say a much bigger sandwich (around 30% larger, I think). As for its composition, there is simply no comparison: we're talking about a beef patty versus this compressed processed chicken thing with smoke flavor etc. Sure, it contains more fat, but it contains less garbage.

Many thanks to Friedclams for sharing all this knowledge.
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#65 friedclams

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Posted 16 October 2003 - 11:12 AM

I've done some BK research for the benefit of fellow foodies. This information is current:

- "fire grilled" vs. "flame broiled" ... patties continue to be broiled under flames, the broiler has not been modifed or changed. The reference to fire grilled is a marketing statement to make the customer relate the sandwich experience to an outdoor grill having cooked the meat

- you may be aware of the new santa fe chicken baguette sandwich. The baguette is baked fresh inside the restaurant and has a hold time of 60 minutes before waste. At the restaurant manager's discretion it is possible too special order the Whopper sandwich ON THE BAGETTE vs. the normal bun (not received daily).

A Whopper sandwich assembled with an off the broiler patty on a freshly baked baguette could be a taste experience far superior to the usual Whopper


:smile: :biggrin: :cool: :blink: :raz: :rolleyes:

#66 tommy

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Posted 16 October 2003 - 11:14 AM

that's a great report FG. i'm looking forward to ordering mine off the broiler. although i may skip the cutting bit.

#67 Fat Guy

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Posted 16 October 2003 - 11:16 AM

Friedclams, just to refine one point there: the baguettes are "finish baked" on premises. As I understand it, that means they are fabricated and partially baked in a central facility and then finished in an oven at the individual store. This procedure has a lot of potential, but it's not realized by Burger King, which has opted for a crust-free cottony bun that isn't all that much of an improvement over the standard Whopper bun. Kind of a waste of effort.

The problem with ordering a Whopper on that bun would be the shape -- it might be a bit awkward to eat. I guess they could cut the patty and arrange it to fit a little better, though.
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#68 friedclams

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Posted 16 October 2003 - 11:16 AM

Many thanks to Friedclams for sharing all this knowledge.


You're very welcome... I'm glad you were able to "have it your way"....
:biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:

#69 Fat Guy

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Posted 16 October 2003 - 11:17 AM

that's a great report FG.  i'm looking forward to ordering mine off the broiler.  although i may skip the cutting bit.

You've got to let them do the cutting bit at least once 1) to see the cool way they double-wrap the sandwich, 2) so you can get a really nice visible cross-section, and 3) because I think it earns you respect in the kitchen.
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#70 friedclams

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Posted 16 October 2003 - 11:29 AM

FG, from my past experience, the Whopper bun (and the baguette) is a highly engineered baked product. The objective is aways to lower food cost. During my tenure we proved that taking even one penny's worth of cost out of the bun significantly improved profits. Without getting into the food engineering possibilities, one can imagine how the bun/baguette recipe and baking characteristic mix to form a final product capable of holding up to the patty and condiments and holding time without getting soggy.

I suggest that the Whopper bun which isn't finish baked at the restaurant and not delivered fresh baked daily could be outdone slightly in taste by the baguette. For example, there are 6 gms of sugar in the Whopper bun vs. 2grams in the baguette however there are 390gms of salt in the bun vs. 420 gms in the baguette, but the baguette is warmed from an oven perhaps never microvaved.

As for fitting the patty, that could be a problem. The sandwich slicing knife could be used to cut the patty in half and layered on the baguette but this isn't a current ops procedure and would have to be coaxed out of the restaurant manager to do. Otherwise take a plastic knife and do it yourself after delivery.... lol

Edited by friedclams, 16 October 2003 - 11:32 AM.


#71 hillbill

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Posted 16 October 2003 - 11:37 AM

If you leave the mayo off a Whopper, it only runs 200 calories more than a Santa Fe Fire Grilled Chicken Baguette (350 v. 550), and it is needless to say a much bigger sandwich (around 30% larger, I think). As for its composition, there is simply no comparison: we're talking about a beef patty versus this compressed processed chicken thing with smoke flavor etc. Sure, it contains more fat, but it contains less garbage.


Now that I know that BK lets you "have it your way" with reduced fat mayo I tried to find the nutritional info for the rf mayo but I couldn't find it on the web site. But here's the ingredient list for the two mayos:

MAYONNAISE

Soybean Oil, Eggs, Water, Distilled Vinegar. Contains 2% or less of the following: Egg Yolks, Salt, Sugar, Lemon Juice Concentrate, Natural† Flavor, Calcium Disodium EDTA added to protect flavor, Dehydrated Garlic, Dehydrated Onion, Paprika or Paprika Oleoresin. †Natural flavors from plant sources Contains Egg.

MAYONNAISE-REDUCED FAT

Water, Soybean Oil, Corn Syrup, Egg Whites, Distilled Vinegar, Modified Food Starch, Salt, Sugar, Spice, Xanthan Gum, Mustard Flour, Sodium Benzoate and Potassium Sorbate as preservatives, Lemon Juice, Polysorbate 60, Calcium Disodium EDTA to protect flavor, Paprika Oleoresin, Sodium Citrate, Annatto Color, Mono- and Diglycerides. Contains Egg and Wheat.


And here's the regular bun vs. baguette ingredient list (there's no list of ingredients for the chicken in the Chicken Baguette):

4" AND 5" BUNS

Enriched Flour (Niacin, Iron, Thiamine Mononitrate, Riboflavin, and Folic Acid), Water, Sugar (Sucrose or High Fructose Corn Syrup), Vegetable Shortening, Yeast, Salt, Wheat Gluten, Sesame Seeds, Natural† and Artificial Butter Flavor, Yeast Food (Calcium Sulfate, Potassium Iodate, and/or Ammonium Sulfate), Dough Conditioners (Polysorbate 60, Calcium Peroxide [Oxidant], Calcium Salts, Sulfates, Phosphates, and Ammonium Salts), Dough Strengtheners (Sodium and/or Calcium-2-Stearoyl Lactylate or Ethoxylated Mono- and Diglycerides), Dough Softeners (Mono- and Diglycerides, and/or Protease Sorbate), Oxidation Reduction Additives (Ascorbic Acid, Potassium/Calcium Iodate, Alpha-amylase, Azodicarbonamide), Leavening Agent (Monocalcium Phosphate). †Natural flavor from plant sources Contains Wheat.

BAGUETTE BUNS

Enriched Wheat Flour (Flour, Niacin, Reduced Iron, Thiamin Mononitrate, Riboflavin, Folic Acid), Water, Soybean or Canola Oil, Salt. May contain less than 2% of the following: Dextrose, Natural Sourdough, Yeast, DATEM, Malted Barley Flour, Calcium Sulfate, Enzyme, Ascorbic Acid, Mono- and Diglycerides, Sorbitan Monosterate. Contains Wheat.


Gustatory illiterati in an illuminati land.

#72 FistFullaRoux

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Posted 16 October 2003 - 11:39 AM

Putting the quality issues aside for a moment, one thing has been ignored in a lot of the fast food discussions I've seen here. The convenience aspect.

Sure, a big "real" burger from a steakhouse can be done for a couple of dollars more than the McKing Wendys, but you have to get out of your car and stand in line. In larger cities, (NY, LA Chi, DFW, etc) lines are a part of life. But in the smaller cities (Birmingham, Austin, New Orleans, etc) and towns, getting out of the car becomes a major hassle. Here in Birmingham, I find myself saying "Screw it, let's hit a drive thru", even though I have the money and the time to order something better from somewhere else, a drive thru is quicker. Even for a special order.
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#73 tryska

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Posted 16 October 2003 - 11:51 AM

one to eat cold on the way back.

Things sure have changed.

you said it. i can't imagine eating a mcdonald's hamburger cold these days. it starts smelling funky as soon as it gets a little cooler than "hot".

Edited by tryska, 16 October 2003 - 11:52 AM.


#74 jhlurie

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Posted 16 October 2003 - 11:55 AM

re: The convenience aspect

Nah, we've had that discussion quite a bit. Ask tommy.

Then again it's ALWAYS debatable that "getting out of the car is too much trouble". And as I've timed it, in reality its not often faster. Faster than a real sit-down restaurant sure, but not a counter-order. If the ideal is better quality with counter service, I think there is a three-way equation between waiting time, food quality and money spent.

Edited by jhlurie, 16 October 2003 - 11:55 AM.

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#75 Nick

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Posted 16 October 2003 - 03:46 PM


  • On March 31, 1999 Burger King Corporation announced the launch of the "new" Left-Handed WHOPPER® .....In the announcement, BKC claimed to have re-engineered the WHOPPER® to fit more comfortably in the left hand, thereby reducing condiment "spills" for left-handed hamburger lovers.


A stroke of marketing genious if ever there was one. :biggrin:

#76 Stone

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Posted 16 October 2003 - 04:28 PM

, "Whopper meal, with cheese, large, off the broiler, cut in half, fries, diet."

"off the broiler"
"cut in half"

Does BK have a secret menu like In-N-Out Burger?

Californians giggle with glee at the prospect of ordering a hamburger "animal style". I wonder if BK could be as much fun.

#77 Fat Guy

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Posted 16 October 2003 - 08:56 PM

, "Whopper meal, with cheese, large, off the broiler, cut in half, fries, diet."

"off the broiler"
"cut in half"

Just to show you how these things actually appear in the POS printout:

Posted Image

I also did some searching around the Web and, lo and behold, there are about three pages of Google hits on "off the broiler" plus "Burger King." So I'm sorry to say we can't claim a scoop here -- not even close. But we may as well get this all codified here.

Friedclams, Soba, others . . . got any other special orders to tell us about?
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#78 pjs

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Posted 16 October 2003 - 08:58 PM

Actually, according to J. McLamore's autobiography, the original piece-of-crap Insta-burger-broiler was used for some time in the mid-fifties until they became fed-up with it and designed a new one. They then invested lots of money in designing and building the things themselves instead of out-sourcing like McD.


Jim was a great guy to talk to about the early years. My original point was that BK always used some type of broiler, crap or not... The broiler is of BK proprietary design but built by a public equipment company.

FC,

The original redesigned broilers were indeed built in-house, at least early-on. In fact, so was much of the stainless equipment in the stores. My point was BK corporate spent large amounts starting-up in-house fabrication operations when the McDonald's method was to let the supplier design and prototype with the carrot dangling of all that future business. BTW, the original McD Fish sandwich was developed by someone working at Gorton's who spent over a year developing it.

BTW, I'm really enjoying your posts.

PJ
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#79 hillbill

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Posted 16 October 2003 - 09:08 PM

, "Whopper meal, with cheese, large, off the broiler, cut in half, fries, diet."

"off the broiler"
"cut in half"

Just to show you how these things actually appear in the POS printout:

http://www.egullet.com/imgs/hiyw.jpg

I was going to ask what HIYW was but then when I saw the hiyw.jpg code it dawned on me that it means "Have it your way." Duh.
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#80 Fat Guy

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Posted 16 October 2003 - 09:14 PM

Burger King's POS system is so enthusiastic about the HIYW philosophy that it prints HIYW next to every single item you order, regardless of whether or not you make any sort of custom specification. You order a large Diet Coke, the printout says, "LG DIET COKE HIYW." You order a large fries, the printout says, "LG FRIES HIYW." Order any ten things, there will be ten HIYWs on your printout no matter what. This is, I believe, a philosophical statement: even if you make no modification to the standard order, you have still had it your way. That your way is the default way does not make it any less yours. Burger King is all about equality.
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#81 Fat Guy

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Posted 16 October 2003 - 09:19 PM

This is a cute site run by Burger King alumni:

http://www.geocities...645/bkrule.html

Among the "rules for BK customers" are:

3) Don't explain your reasoning for buying our food - we don't care.

5) Plain means NOTHING on it.

10) Park within arms reach of the window.

16) We don't have Ice-Cream - quit asking. Take the shake or go to McDonalds.

35) We don't care if you leave. We don't get commission or tips.

44) Say you want cheese right away. Otherwise we have to start all over.

[b]52) Don't ask for stuff off the broiler and then complain cause it took too long.

63) And most importantly……

WE ARE NOT MCDONALDS!!!!!

We cannot sell you Happy Meals, McNuggets, or BigMacs!!!!


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#82 jhlurie

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Posted 16 October 2003 - 10:03 PM

I like "If you are old or ugly, no flirting." Also: "We are not mind readers" and "No stupidity allowed."
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#83 Rachel Perlow

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Posted 16 October 2003 - 10:21 PM

Burger King's POS system is so enthusiastic about the HIYW philosophy that it prints HIYW next to every single item you order, regardless of whether or not you make any sort of custom specification. You order a large Diet Coke, the printout says, "LG DIET COKE HIYW." You order a large fries, the printout says, "LG FRIES HIYW." Order any ten things, there will be ten HIYWs on your printout no matter what. This is, I believe, a philosophical statement: even if you make no modification to the standard order, you have still had it your way. That your way is the default way does not make it any less yours. Burger King is all about equality.

I think the explaination for this is in your original 'return to BK and check out the customization process' post:

It took around 10 minutes to process the order. It was somewhat amusing to see a single beef patty emerge out of that massive broiling contraption. There was a bit of discussion of the order in the "kitchen" and the manager did eventually have to participate in the wrapping of the Whopper. To the staff's credit, they held off on assembling the rest of my order until the Whopper was "up."



#84 hillbill

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Posted 16 October 2003 - 10:24 PM

Burger King's POS system is so enthusiastic about the HIYW philosophy that it prints HIYW next to every single item you order, regardless of whether or not you make any sort of custom specification. You order a large Diet Coke, the printout says, "LG DIET COKE HIYW." You order a large fries, the printout says, "LG FRIES HIYW." Order any ten things, there will be ten HIYWs on your printout no matter what. This is, I believe, a philosophical statement: even if you make no modification to the standard order, you have still had it your way. That your way is the default way does not make it any less yours. Burger King is all about equality.


Burger King is all about the subliminal (blatant?) reinforcement of the mass delusional fantasy that we are all unique individuals individually choosing and consuming our uniquely chosen individual choices. HAVE IT YOUR WAY. As you put it so eloquently, "That your way is the default way does not make it any less yours." HAVE IT YOUR WAY. After all, if the choice is between ummm, BK and McC, is there really any choice? HAVE IT YOUR WAY. That's probably why it's so important to their corporate mantra to chant "There are 1,537 possible ways for a customer to order a WHOPPER® sandwich. (If you cut it in half, the number doubles!)" HAVE IT YOUR WAY. We're providing the American consumer with literally thousands of choices! HAVE IT YOUR WAY. BK is all about uniquely individual equality. HAVE IT YOUR WAY. Your way is the default way is a uniquely individual way. HAVE IT YOUR WAY!

I do feel lucky that I've gotten enough education and perspective to observe both with amusement and fright as I watch corporations get ever better skilled at marketing fantasies of uniqueness and individualism to consumers.

Edit: As I'm finishing up my little diatribe I'm thinking: "Have it your way" was once a truly meaningful point of differentiation because the individualization was emphasized, not the slogan. But if the phrase is repeated ad nauseum as you note when the vast majority of the choices are the default and so few people are cognizant of the possibility of individualization that it's virtually an insider's secret, well then they truly have suceeded in marketing the fantasy of (some modicum of) individualization while selling just the opposite. (Am I just repeating the same thing in different words? It's awful late and I'm neither as good a writer nor as intelligent as I'd like to be! In the morning when I wake up, roll over, and see the words that I slept with night before I'll probably be appalled. Oh well, I think there's a point in here somewhere.)

Edited by Jason Perlow, 06 February 2006 - 05:33 PM.

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#85 Fat Guy

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Posted 16 October 2003 - 10:34 PM

I think the explaination for this is in your original 'return to BK and check out the customization process' post

I'm saying this is the case on every item I've ordered from Burger King during three trips during the past week or so. Here's from another receipt, where I made no modifications of any kind to the order:

Posted Image
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#86 Rachel Perlow

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Posted 16 October 2003 - 10:39 PM

Hmph! :shock: Obviously, I thought you were referring to the second HIYW visit, and thought that they added it to your non-customized items. Hey, can you HIYW with foods other than sandwiches? Can I get my coke with just a little ice, how about a half-lemonade-half-unsweetened iced tea, I like my fries sprinkled with pepper (I suppose preground is inevitable)...

Edited by Rachel Perlow, 16 October 2003 - 10:42 PM.


#87 Fat Guy

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Posted 16 October 2003 - 10:41 PM

There are 1,537 possible ways for a customer to order a WHOPPER® sandwich

Now I know where Tom Colicchio got the idea for Craft. I always thought it was from the cheese people -- a clever bit of misdirection by Chef Tom -- but now the jig is up.
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#88 Fat Guy

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Posted 16 October 2003 - 10:42 PM

As you put it so eloquently, "That your way is the default way does not make it any less yours."

. . . .

Your way is the default way is a uniquely individual way.

Choose to conform.
Steven A. Shaw aka "Fat Guy"
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Director, New Media Studies, International Culinary Center (take my food-blogging course)

#89 Fat Guy

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Posted 16 October 2003 - 10:46 PM

I wonder if there's a way to get a copy of the full keyboard from a BK POS terminal, or even better a list of all the pre-programmed options.

Friedclams?

How annoying would it be if I started putting HIYW after every sentence?

Can we get an [HIYW] [/HIYW] tag for Invision Code?
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#90 SobaAddict70

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Posted 17 October 2003 - 07:21 AM

Friedclams, Soba, others . . . got any other special orders to tell us about?

Well no, but there is something called Burger King cuisine, as in all the nifty things you can do (BOH of course with all of the ingredients at hand.)

Mock Chicken Stir-fry, anyone? :blink: (Chopped unfrozen deep fried chicken tenders, sweet and sour sauce, lettuce, tomatoes, onions and nuked in the microwave.)

Spanish omelette? (egg mix for scrambled eggs, tomatoes and onions)

Apple pie ala mode -- thawed nuked apple pie topped with vanilla shake.

Strange, but true. All of this stuff we did without the management knowing about, after hours and close to closing time. heheh.

Soba

Edited by Jason Perlow, 06 February 2006 - 05:36 PM.