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"Southern" Desserts

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#31 chefette

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Posted 07 October 2003 - 07:10 PM

Zilla, nothing personal here, but keep in mind, they are making you/having you do the floors that should tell you something. I would not have said no in your position either. But, keep in mind that you have an opportunity to learn here

What strikes me on this thread is that yes, there are two ways to look at this
1) Great opportunity for very young person just out of school, new restaurant, take it and run with it
2) hmmm
How can one explain explain that you actually sort of feel sorry for Zilla and others in your position. She was there she is new, she is cheap, who the hell really cares about desserts, no budget, let's get this place up and running. Later on what will they do with her. How much is she making, how many hours is she working, when push comes to shove will they support her? appreciate ger for stepping in and holding up the earth? When things get settled down will they hire a real PC at a higher salary who will just keep Zilla running doing a ton of work (dues) or even get rid of her in favor of their own person/people? ??????????
Maybe everything will work out great. Maybe I'll win the lottery. who knows.

Again Zilla, not rain on your parade per se, but please use these comments to position yourself either professionally or emotionally to make the best of what you are doing and leverage it.

If I understand correctly the chef who is opening this restaurant is a HUGE deal in the marketplace there. A local luminary. The fact that they/he is willing and able to drop pastry on a new hire is shocvking since one would expect that he would want to open on the strongest possible foot. Maybe he has complete faith in himself and his ability to get you to execute his concepts, maybe he just doesn't care about the last course. Either way, ...

Again, this does not mean that we are not happy about your new job, or that we are not supportive of you. This is people showing honest concern about you, the profession, your, and all of our futures. May we all do briiliantly in the foreseeable future.

Edited by chefette, 07 October 2003 - 07:10 PM.


#32 zilla369

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Posted 07 October 2003 - 09:49 PM

Zilla,

I'm curious about your recipe for creme brulee (which you described as the 'best you've ever had').  Wanna share it?

Hm...working from memory here, since i'm home, but it's pretty simple.

48 egg yolks
8 whole eggs
3 lbs granulated sugar
8 qts heavy whipping cream
3 vanilla beans, split and scraped

whisk the egg yolks and eggs and sugar together
scald the cream with the vanilla beans

temper the cream into the egg mixture
rest for several hours or overnight.

Bake in ramekins in a hot water bath at maybe 275 or 300 F (convection oven) until only the center jiggles when shaken - don't allow any browning. 45 minutes at 350 in a conventional oven, perhaps.

Cover with granulated sugar, brown sugar or bourbon sugar, and shake off the excess.

I use a torch to carmelize the sugar, but you can conceivably do it under a salamander or broiler, i guess.

Of course, this makes about 60 (5 oz) servings, so...scale it for your own use! :laugh:

I think the secret to this very simple recipe is that it doesn't involve cooking the eggs except in the oven.
Marsha Lynch aka "zilla369"

Has anyone ever actually seen a bandit making out?  

Uh-huh: just as I thought. Stereotyping.

#33 zilla369

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Posted 07 October 2003 - 09:56 PM

Zilla, nothing personal here, but keep in mind, they are making you/having you do the floors  that should tell you something.

Actually, all the cooks (3 line, 3 pantry) do the sweeping and mopping. I don't feel put upon by this requirement.

Secondly: alas, i'm not "very young"....i'm 40.

Maybe someday, perhaps even someday soon, i'll feel put-upon and used. But right now, i'm just grateful for the opportunity. The owners are two very fine chefs, one of whom has cooked at the James Beard house. But they are making a conscious effort to make this an "upscale casual" joint - entrees are almost all under $20. So i'm not surprised they decided to take on desserts themselves, rather than spend a lot on a pastry chef.

I'm not embarassed to reveal i'm making $9 an hour right now, and working about 50 hours a week. A big change from my soul-sucking $42K a year loan officer job, but...i'm a LOT happier than i was when i was a loan officer.

Everybody lighten up a little. This has turned into two threads - one about southern desserts and the development and presentation thereof, another about my being given these duties. Seems like there are some that wish me well and some that want me to be miserable because i'm being underpaid for a job i'm not qualified for.
Marsha Lynch aka "zilla369"

Has anyone ever actually seen a bandit making out?  

Uh-huh: just as I thought. Stereotyping.

#34 Pan

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Posted 07 October 2003 - 11:02 PM

After the bourbon is fermented, the left over grain mixture is dried, we buy it, and grind it into flour, which is mixed with traditional flours to make anything from our house bread (baked off-site), to blinis on which to serve Kentucky spoonfish caviar, to the biscuits i make for the bourbon-berry napolean.

That sounds neat. :smile: Thanks for the explanation.

Does the bread end up tasting much like sourdough bread?

#35 zilla369

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Posted 07 October 2003 - 11:15 PM

After the bourbon is fermented, the left over grain mixture is dried, we buy it, and grind it into flour, which is mixed with traditional flours to make anything from our house bread (baked off-site), to blinis on which to serve Kentucky spoonfish caviar, to the biscuits i make for the bourbon-berry napolean.

That sounds neat. :smile: Thanks for the explanation.

Does the bread end up tasting much like sourdough bread?

Nah. It tastes like hearty wheat bread, with a very subtle bourbon-y note.
Marsha Lynch aka "zilla369"

Has anyone ever actually seen a bandit making out?  

Uh-huh: just as I thought. Stereotyping.

#36 Michael Laiskonis

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Posted 08 October 2003 - 12:35 AM

The accidental pastry chef. I love it. I hope you're keeping careful notes -- this is something you should write about someday for a magazine, in order to let people know how the restaurant biz really works. And of course, as ridiculous as this employment selection technique is, in the end the restaurant is probably getting a more enthusiastic, conscientious, and useful pastry chef than it would have gotten by hiring an actual pastry graduate from one of the cooking schools.

First, just to be done with it, FG's initial comments should not be either taken personal by zilla, nor should any experienced pastry chefs take offense. In fact, I completely agree, and the circumstances here are not unlike my own humble beginnings...

We'll actually fast forward past my first couple of cooking jobs, because, while perhaps relevant even to this discussion, none of you will be interested in reading my boring, unabridged memoir...

So I land my first ever job in a restaurant, having previously worked for a bakery, caterer, gourmet shop, and wholesale bread/pastry operation. For some reason, I knew a restaurant was where I needed to be. While I had the pastry background, I didn't necessarily entertain thoughts of becoming a pastry chef, but rather wanted to prove myself as a blood-and-guts line cook, in hopes of becoming a chef like those of whom I was just starting to read about- from a Trotter or Bouley or Ripert, to a Robuchon or Blanc (Georges) or even Gagnaire. At this point, I had already considered school, both locally, and the CIA, but I was dirt poor, living paycheck to paycheck, and decided to follow the old chestnut, "Earn while you learn."

I didn't know a thing about the local restaurant scene, but I was smart enough to know that if I went to a small, just opened, chef-owned place, the potential for real education would be greater than if I got myself lost in some hotel or corporate restaurant situation. So I somehow found myself hired, part of a tiny staff, in a tiny, and I mean tiny, kitchen- the chef, his sous, the pantry guy, and a part time prep/expeditor. There literally was no room for anyone else! I was to replace the pantry guy, who would move up to the line (mind you, for the first six months, the chef and sous were the line). So I did the amuse, two salads, two apps, and plated the desserts, which were brought in from the outside. And our only ice cream was picked up at the market next door- Haagen Dazs Vanilla, which we served with the 'rustic apple tart' we bought. I think we may have made a coulis here and there, but for the most part, it was all purchased.

It only took about a month to get the station routine down cold. So with an extra half hour to kill before service, I'd started to knock out a tuile here, a sauce there, just because I felt like it. I'd begun to ask, "Why do we buy our crème brûlée? I can bake them off, and we can even play around with the flavor." And right around this time, having already devoured Charlie's first book, Andrew MacLauclan's book came out- it truly blew us away at the time. So I began taking on more of the dessert stuff; I was still more interested in tweaking the amuse stuff, or coming up with ideas for a new terrine or some other cold app, but I didn't feel as much confidence in suggesting those ideas to the chef (it wasn't until much, much later, as his sous, that I would end up kicking him out of the kitchen, as I thought I had things exactly the way I wanted!). Little by little, we phased out the wholesale items, and I became another "accidental" pastry chef.

Eight months into my first restaurant job, I was given the title, and even a printed dessert menu- up to that point, desserts were sold verbally. And while I was also responsible for my 'garmo' duties, I produced four or five plated desserts, from top to bottom, and we even procured a cheap home-use ice cream machine. But I still wanted to butcher the ducks, clean the fish, sear the foie, even blanch the asparagus. So my days got longer; I'd come in early enough to blow through my prep list, in order to make myself available to do whatever I could. Luckily, I worked for a chef who let me take a mile for every inch he gave, not because he was lazy or that he didn't care, but because, I felt, he trusted me, and perhaps saw some shimmer of potential. Sure, I made little money, and he certainly got two cooks for the price of one, but that restaurant became my "school," my "laboratory." And looking back, I suffered a lot of defeat and disasters, but his laid back mentoring set me on the path that I continue today. But again, at the time, I didn't see myself becoming a pastry chef. Sure, I enjoyed that aspect, and took an immense pride in what I did, but I needed more. I jumped ship into deeper waters.

A new restaurant had opened in town, unlike anything else at the time (or to this day, really), and doing food of the sort I had only seen in magazines and books. I had been in to eat and met the chef and GM. I realized I needed a kick in the pants, and this was my chance. I began my trial by fire as a line cook. Finally, I was really cooking, learning a ton, and as part of an elite staff. I was hungry for the discipline, the stress, the quest for perfection. And I got it there. It was there that I developed that internal knot that just feeds on that pressure, but is never satisfied. I loved it, but I also spent a lot of time looking at what was going on across the kitchen in the pastry area. I was amazed with the equipment, staff, and freedom the pastry chef had. I began fantasizing about what I could do with all of that at my disposal. I also think I missed something I had at my previous job (and even a couple jobs prior to that)- a sense of autonomy, the feeling that I had a certain amount of control. I was doing very well, and I knew there were opportunities to advance in this restaurant, but something told me I had to bail. And I eventually did, but back to my first restaurant, where I finally decided to see where I might take the pastry thing.

Although I took a step backward in terms of the resources available, and the level of intensity, the confidence I had gained made me realize that not only did I seek responsibilty and leadership (even if there really was no one to lead), let alone autonomy, but also that I needed that environment where I could figure out and truly refine whatever style or passion existed within me. So I started where I had left off, building on what knowledge I continued to accumulate. But the place was still too small to afford a pastry chef proper, so instead of working pantry, and because I gained a lot of experience at the other restaurant, I now doubled as the number two line cook. I was content to have my own little private corner of dessert creativity, but I was also butchering those ducks and making sauces. I was still paid shit, but I was in my own heaven.

I had just been to France for the first time, eating at Gagnaire and Arpege. I had gone to cook with my chef at the Beard House, and then ate myself silly in NY, where I had, to this day, the most amazing dish I'd ever eaten (Ripert's skate sauteed in goose fat, with fennel confit, porcini, and a squab reduction). And also at this time, the first reports of this cazy Adria fellow in Spain were just starting to surface in this country. This was the stuff I really wanted to be doing. The savory gods were calling me again. By this time I had forced myself into the sous chef position, all the while maintaining and executing the desserts. I was an animal. I can recall numerous occasions of juggling last minute sugar or tuile garnishes while cooking off my first apps of the evening, but not being able to crank up my oven, because I still had brûlées in there! Looking back, it's a wonder I just didn't sleep at the restaurant- well, I did, but only a few times! But my creativity with desserts could only be expressed so far. I had no space, no equipment, and still that little runt of an ice cream machine. And have I mentioned that the only freezer was in the basement? Of course, that meant dozens of trips up and down, for an ice cream or sorbet that managed to be incorporated into each plated dessert. So I had hit the ceiling, so to speak, with pastry, and thus continued to wreak havoc with the savory menu. Then one day I heard about a vacancy, a pastry chef position, at another restaurant in town.

Turns out the opening pastry chef of that big fish in our little pond, the restaurant where I had worked as a line cook, was leaving. Word was that the chef was willing to look anywhere for a replacement, even out-of-state. As much as I loved playing in the fire, I had always wondered what I could have done in that venue. Since I already had an 'in,' it was no problem throwing my hat into the ring and doing a try-out tasting. To my surprise, I got it. I was now a pastry chef. Full time. For real. With a staff. With money to spend. But most important, I didn't slow down. I continued on the pace I had been working, but now I could focus. Building upon the foundation I had begun with little to no resources, my 'style' and vision could now be fully realized and fleshed out. And in four years, that constant push and perserverance has paid off quite well, I think. I just have to keep raising the bar for myself, and I have to create higher and higher goals. I still feel the urge to jump on the line and flip a pan now and then, but I finally know that this is what I want to be doing, that the pastry realm is where I think I can do my best work. Also, though my management skills continue to evolve, I know that I need to do my own thing. I need to have that trust and autonomy and responsibility- the opportunity to run my own show. And for as far as I can see, the high-end restaurant environment is where it's at for me. I can't see myself in a big hotel, doing wholesale, or even in a corporate chef situation, though retail has begun to entice a little bit. I have yet to shake my physical and mental addiction to that daily energy and intensity. I know I may someday change my mind, but right now, that's where its at.

So zilla, it's awesome that you stepped up. You are young, or at least a fresh face in the business. Do whatever you can, learn whatever you can, wherever you can find it. You may not ever continue with pastry, or this opportunity may just open up doors you didn't even know about before. Don't get hung up on the title, but make sure your work is recognized. 'Cooking' and pastry are really the same thing. Trust your taste and your skills first. But you have to love it. You have to push yourself, and we can only hope your chef will allow you to do that. Be at once humble, because you are a bit green, but also be forceful- set some goals, and make sure the environment you are in will aid you in achieving those goals. If not, consider going elsewhere, whether it is as a prep cook, a line cook, or a pastry cook. In a way, I say, so what if the restaurant or the chef doesn't think enough of the dessert course to warrant seeking out someone more experienced? Be selfish. Use them, instead of having them use you.

And I sweep the floor, too. I still want to sweep the floor. Keep sweeping the floor. Clean floors are cool.
Michael Laiskonis
Pastry Chef
New York
www.michael-laiskonis.com

#37 mighty quinn

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Posted 08 October 2003 - 01:27 AM

southern junior league cookbooks are a wealth of recipes-- "charleston receipts" is my favorite (especially for punch recipes for 200 folks) you could deconstruct some tradtional desserts like red velvet cake or lemon meringue pie. coffee bread pudding is excellent during the fall and winter.
"Ham isn't heroin..."   Morgan Spurlock from "Supersize Me"

#38 zilla369

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Posted 08 October 2003 - 09:11 AM

Michael, thank you so much for that thoughtful and encouraging post. I'm glad to know i'm not completely off-base. A lot of your memories resonated with me, since you went into that first restaurant with the goal of being a line cook in at least the back of your mind.

I've been doing the same things (on somewhat of a smaller scale) - i.e., going in earlier than my shift starts (but not actually punching in until official start time, since i know they're worried about paying overtime), making tuilles and sauces without being told to, and picking the brains of the busy chef/owners as much as i dare. Busy as they are, they usually take my questions seriously and answer them thoughtfully, without ever seeming to think less of me for asking them.

Certainly i'm not worried about having any "title" just yet - it's far too early for that. And i think clean floors are cool, too. So is a clean workspace. And spotless plates - i'm the only person in the kitchen, as far as i can tell, that polishes the rims of a stack of plates for my station before service. No matter how good the dishwashers and dishwashing machine are, there are always pesky water spots that ruin (for me) the look of a presentation.

I believe i have one big advantage over the Michael Laiskonis of the early days. I have eGullet as a resource. Books and reading are great, but how great is it to come home at night and be able to ask a whole raft of experienced industry people what went wrong with this or that, or for help with ideas? It's a resource i plan to make the most of. So i'll keep posting whenever i have time, because it'd be a shame to let all this distilled knowledge go under-utilized. Thanks to everybody for their ideas so far.

Marsha Lynch
Marsha Lynch aka "zilla369"

Has anyone ever actually seen a bandit making out?  

Uh-huh: just as I thought. Stereotyping.

#39 Chad

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Posted 09 October 2003 - 09:10 AM

Okay, you don't have an ice cream maker yet, but when you get one how 'bout a riff on a Mint Julep gelatto, sorbet, glace type thing? Certainly Southern and would probably be damn tasty.

Other ideas, a whimsical take on the prototypical "congealed salad," usually made with Jello, whipped cream and fruit chunks. You could have a lot of fun turning that into an upmarket dessert.

And given that this is the 85th anniversary of the Moon Pie, you could do something really cool with graham cracker crusts, some sort of fluffy filling and chocolate. Might be fun.

You've got to get some sort of peach or blackberry cobbler on the menu, too. Always a staple of Southern cooking. Perhaps dress it up with some puff pastry and purees.

Interesting melon granitas? Honeydew, cantaloupe, that sort of thing.

Hmm, maybe a sweet tea sorbet/granita/gelatto type thing.

Just a couple of ideas. As you read them please keep in mind my grandmother's saying, "Nothing is completely useless; it can always serve as a bad example."

:raz:
Chad

Edited by Chad, 09 October 2003 - 01:23 PM.

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#40 Chad

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Posted 09 October 2003 - 09:26 AM

Oh, by the way, congratulations! You'll be fabulous.

Chad
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#41 tan319

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Posted 09 October 2003 - 01:19 PM

Michael,
What an awesome post!!!
Loved reading about how it all began, and it's really interesting how it ties in with Marsha's position at her new digs.

Marsha: It's so cool to read how you're jumping into it, getting to work before clock in time, doing stuff for you, developing your menu ideas, etc. I used to stay after I finished my stuff, when I was an assistant, just to soak up information, help out on some stuff my chef would be doing, like a dessert course for a Beard house event our restaurant. would be doing And I think chefs LOVE to see that people who work for them are interested enough in cooking to ask them questions. So many people cook to pay bills, it's not a bad living, etc.
Some of these books Michael mention, like the Andrew MacLauclan book (I think maybe he's talking about 'New Classic Dessert's) are great for idea's. Soaking up some of that stuff and trying them out can't hurt.
Also, if I can throw one out there, 'Sweet Season's', by Richard Leach, has some really good recipes for basic flavours, solid jumping off point's for various cream's, etc. It's a presentation heavy book, which any of us who are doing our own menu's and doing all of the production for it probably wouldn't have time for, but the individual component's still impress me. it's worth a look into.
Best of luck and I hope you enjoy being a "sweet-sider"!
2317/5000

#42 Mayhaw Man

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Posted 09 October 2003 - 02:03 PM

southern junior league cookbooks are  a wealth of recipes-- "charleston receipts" is my favorite (especially for punch recipes for 200 folks) you could deconstruct some tradtional desserts like red velvet cake or lemon meringue pie. coffee bread pudding is excellent during the fall and winter.

Good Point

Two other really good League nooks from the South with good desserts are:

Southern Sideboards-Jackson MS Jr. League

Cotton Country Collection- Monroe, LA Jr. League

The book from Monroe gets my vote as the best all round deep south/Delta cookbook ever printed. It has sold well over a million copies (it was printed in 1974) and keeps on going like the eveready bunny. Great pies, great cakes, great cookies. Available at Amazon.
Brooks Hamaker, aka "Mayhaw Man"

There's a train everyday, leaving either way...

#43 mckayinutah

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Posted 20 October 2003 - 07:46 AM

Just a side note of sorts.

Just saw an ad for Exec. Pastry Chef at the Seelbach Hilton in Louisville, the former employer of Zilla's new employers. I wonder where their pastry chef went. Hmmm. :unsure: :unsure: :unsure:


McKay

#44 zilla369

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Posted 20 October 2003 - 09:33 PM

Just a side note of sorts.

Just saw an ad for Exec. Pastry Chef at the Seelbach Hilton in Louisville, the former employer of Zilla's new employers. I wonder where their pastry chef went. Hmmm. :unsure:  :unsure:  :unsure: 


McKay

In the recent past they didn't have one. the Exec and CdC came up with the dessert menu, and the pantry executed them.

Apparently the Seelbach Hilton has decided to spend some money replacing them. They have already hired a new exec and are advertising for a new Chef de Cuisine and Pastry Chef.
Marsha Lynch aka "zilla369"

Has anyone ever actually seen a bandit making out?  

Uh-huh: just as I thought. Stereotyping.

#45 mckayinutah

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Posted 21 October 2003 - 04:54 AM

Zilla,

If that is the case, then they decided to eliminate the pastry chef position then reinstate it. They had an Exec Pastry chef, since I interviewed for it several years back, plus I know that they wanted to showcase her ( the Pastry chef) since she was the only Certified Exec. pastry chef in the state of Kentucky


McKay

#46 zilla369

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Posted 21 October 2003 - 05:16 AM

Zilla,

If that is the case, then they decided to eliminate the pastry chef position then reinstate it. They had an Exec Pastry chef, since I interviewed for it several years back, plus I know that they wanted to showcase her ( the Pastry chef) since she was the only Certified Exec. pastry chef in the state of Kentucky


McKay

I'm not exactly sure what we're getting at, here... is this just more of the same "beware, the evil overlords care not for pastry, and you will be pigeonholed and used and abused and then tossed aside like a used tissue" implication? Meh. I thought we tabled that for the time being.


Also, i don't know how many years ago it could possibly have been, but if anyone at the Seelbach was the "only certified exec. pastry chef in the state of Kentucky", it must have been twenty years ago or more. The university i just graduated from this weekend has at least four CEPCs on staff, including the director of the school, who's been there since the early 80's. And Sullivan's campus is less than 7 miles from the Seelbach.
Marsha Lynch aka "zilla369"

Has anyone ever actually seen a bandit making out?  

Uh-huh: just as I thought. Stereotyping.

#47 mckayinutah

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Posted 21 October 2003 - 06:04 AM

Zilla,

I must apologize if I offended you, for I meant no harm. My posting to state that I had seen an ad for pastry chef at the Seelbach was meant to show that usually once someone of stature ( Jim Gerhard ) leaves an establishment that is as popular as the Seelbach is, that others will follow ( especially management ) If they haven't had a pastry chef for sometime now, well I guess my posting has nothing to do with this then.

As far as the CEPC thing, I am only going by what I have read in the past. I know of the person you speak of at Sullivan, and I should have used my brain when I said that this PC at the Seelbach was the only one in the state. I aplogize for that.

Again, my post has nothing to do with the owners of where you work and their beliefs on pastry. It was simply meant to state that once some one good leaves, many may follow.

Good luck and take care,

McKay ( JASON McCARTHY )

#48 Steve Klc

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Posted 21 October 2003 - 06:54 AM

Well, Jason, what the Seelbach marketing folks might have been trying to convey is that they were the only fine dining restaurant in the state with a working CEPC. When I last visited Sullivan and ate a fine meal there, yes CEPC's were instructors but students made the desserts served in their dining room. Still, I wouldn't quibble too much over this. It may have been nothing more than the Seelbach trying to impress a potential pastry or baking assistant into taking the job there working under the CEPC.

Also, I do think it is interesting what you noticed about this Seelbach job posting--and its timing--and how the previous chef team without a pastry chef might contrast with a new management team set on hiring an actual pastry chef. Perhaps we can explore the implications of this on another thread--like pastry recognition or Sinclair's thread about her job search. But you have nothing to apologize for.

Let's keep this thread more on what zilla really wants to engage on--the desserts she's creating and Southern flavors and ideas and Bourbon, etc. The other points have already been made here and we have already moved that discussion elsewhere anyway.
Steve Klc

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Oyamel : Zaytinya : Cafe Atlantico : Jaleo

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#49 mckayinutah

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Posted 21 October 2003 - 08:16 AM

STEVE,

You are absolutely right. I , unfortunately, have a tendency of going off the subject which I shouldn't do. I guess I can relate very well with Wendy in her frustration with the lack of respect of pastry chefs and I tend to voice my opinion on that subject whenever I see I can pipe in, even if that is not the subject at hand.


Again, apologizes to all :smile:


Mckay ( JASON McCARTHY )

#50 Chad

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Posted 21 October 2003 - 08:23 AM

Let's keep this thread more on what zilla really wants to engage on--the desserts she's creating and Southern flavors and ideas and Bourbon, etc. The other points have already been made here and we have already moved that discussion elsewhere anyway.

I know I'm curious. What is our delightfully un-PC PC making these days? Any of the suggestions on this thread make the cut?

Chad
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#51 Toliver

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Posted 21 October 2003 - 08:39 AM

I know I'm curious. What is our delightfully un-PC PC making these days? Any of the suggestions on this thread make the cut?

Yes, do tell!

“Peter: Oh my god, Brian, there's a message in my Alphabits. It says, 'Oooooo.'
Brian: Peter, those are Cheerios.”
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#52 zilla369

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Posted 21 October 2003 - 09:24 AM

Again, apologizes to all :smile:


Mckay  ( JASON McCARTHY )

Oh, pshaw, no apologies, please - instead, please accept mine for the knee-jerk reaction. Us budding pastry drudges can get a little cranky after a 12-hour day and only a few hours' sleep :cool:

As for the dessert menu at Limestone - man! As business ratchets up, i seem to go in earlier and earlier and still end up with less and less time to experiment or develop specials. And all three local restaurant reviewers were in last week; as soon as those reviews are published i'm pretty sure it'll only get more hectic. Last Saturday, for instance, we did 190 covers. So it's getting to be more of a job just to replace the par stock of desserts i need to keep. I'm especially paranoid that my pantry-mates will run out of something on my days off (Wednesdays). I don't know why that possibility seems worse to me than running out while i'm actually on premises, but it does. I think it's mostly that i would be able to give a warning count to the servers within a decent time interval of running out, but i don't know that anybody else would, and i'd hate for a guest to order something and then be disappointed.

The dessert i thought would be the most popular (brown sugar pear poundcake with red wine poached pears) is, in fact, almost the least popular. In a way i'm sort of relieved by that, because even though it's very good, it probably takes up the most prep time.

My bourbon sour mash bread pudding, which at first i wasn't crazy about, has improved a lot since i made the sneaky recipe modification of using the custard from my creme brulee recipe as its binder. Also have exchanged sun-dried cherries for the original raisins. Now i just keep a big old vat of brulee "batter" in the walk-in all the time, and every day i fill all the empty brulee dishes and bake them off first thing. I only need to make the bread pudding about twice a week - but i dread cutting up all that bread into cubes!

The creme brulee is a popular as ever. What's even more popular is the dessert "trio" i started running, with a mini-brulee (about two oz.), a mini-berry "napolean" (god, i just can't seem to type that without the quote marks - damn you, ACF!), and a small wedge of the chess pie...

Chocolate chess pie! That thing is blowin' up! Everybody's nuts about it. Staff is constantly bugging me to "mess one up so I can have a piece, please!" We've done several private parties, and they all choose the chocolate chess pie for their dessert. So lots of times i have to make 8 chess pies several times a week. Actually, it does taste pretty good, and looks good on a plate with chocolate sauce, but i thought it was pretty pedestrian. Apparently not - or if so, nobody cares. But i am beginning to hate the word Callebaut, heh. My hands ache when i get up in the morning from chopping chocolate every day. Doesn't that stuff come in some already-chopped form? I imagine it does, but it's probably pretty expensive, eh? Also, i've been, of course, par-baking the pie crusts and then filling and re-baking, so i have to put foil around the edges so the crust doesn't get too brown on its second go-round in the oven. That foil chore is the one i hate most. Luckily, i found some cheap pie crust shields online, and chef's promised to order me some.

The berry "napoleon" is pretty popular, too - and i like it because it's the most colorful dessert on the menu. But simply using the juice from the bourbon-marinated berries wasn't getting it for me, because it was just so thin that it made for a messy-looking plate presentation. So i've started puree-ing, double-straining, and reducing the juice after the addition of simple syrup - *sigh*, more added steps! - but it looks MUCH nicer on the plate, now.

The clafouti isn't selling well. I firmly believe this is because the servers don't know how to describe it to the guests (even though the servers have all tasted it.) What would be a good description to train them to give? I mean, my standard answer is "warm apples baked in a light fluffy batter, with ice cream on top", and really, that doesn't even sound all that enticing. Besides, servers have trouble remembering a sentence that long :wink:

As a check amenity, i was doing Godiva chocolate biscotti, but that was a lot of work (and took up a lot of oven-time. God forbid.) Last week, i coaxed some chocolate i had seized by accident with Godiva liqueur into some servicable truffles, and everyone lost their mind. I practically have to keep these under lock and key. ("Dessert amenity for one, please." "Oh, you have a one-top out there?" "uh, no..."). So i guess they're a pretty successful dessert amenity. Last night i made my first batch without Godiva and used Chambord instead. I like these better than the biscotti because they keep better, but then again that's just MORE chocolate-chopping for me. I mean, between the chess pie and the truffles and the chocolate sauce and the writing-chocolate i need for birthday plates, i'm hand-chopping about 5 pounds of chocolate a day at times. Gah!

We're going to be open on thanksgiving, so i'm going to need some kick-ass pumpkin pie recipe for starters. I'm also considering running a trio of different-flavored creme brulees...maybe classic, sweet potato and - cranberry? How would i get cranberry flavoring into a creme brulee?

Thanks for all your support, and for reading this far if you made it through the whole thing. Good grief.

MARSHA LYNCH
Marsha Lynch aka "zilla369"

Has anyone ever actually seen a bandit making out?  

Uh-huh: just as I thought. Stereotyping.

#53 Toliver

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Posted 21 October 2003 - 10:03 AM

I got tired just reading your post so I can only imagine how you tired must be feeling! And your poor hands...it's too bad they don't make a automatic chocolate chopper.

My bourbon sour mash bread pudding, which at first i wasn't crazy about, has improved a lot since i made the sneaky recipe modification of using the custard from my creme brulee recipe as its binder.  Also have exchanged sun-dried cherries for the original raisins.

I've had something similar where the raisins were soaked in bourbon before being baked into the bread pudding. They came out plump, sassy and delicious.

The clafouti isn't selling well.  I firmly believe this is because the servers don't know how to describe it to the guests (even though the servers have all tasted it.)  What would be a good description to train them to give?  I mean, my standard answer is "warm apples baked in a light fluffy batter, with ice cream on top", and really, that doesn't even sound all that enticing.  Besides, servers have trouble remembering a sentence that long  :wink:

Personally, I would 86 the term "clafouti" and rename it something else. The average customer has no idea what the heck a "clafouti" is. Instead, call it "Augusta Apple Pudding" or whatever...something a little less alien-sounding and more southern "comfort food" friendly.

As a check amenity, i was doing Godiva chocolate biscotti, but that was a lot of work (and took up a lot of oven-time.  God forbid.)  Last week, i coaxed some chocolate i had seized by accident with Godiva liqueur into some servicable truffles, and everyone lost their mind.  I practically have to keep these under lock and key. ("Dessert amenity for one, please."  "Oh, you have a one-top out there?"  "uh, no...").  So i guess they're a pretty successful dessert amenity.  Last night i made my first batch without Godiva and used Chambord instead.  I like these better than the biscotti because they keep better, but then again that's just MORE chocolate-chopping for me.  I mean, between the chess pie and the truffles and the chocolate sauce and the writing-chocolate i need for birthday plates, i'm hand-chopping about 5 pounds of chocolate a day at times.  Gah!

I think you've discovered a good way to capture the hearts and stomachs of the staff (which I am sure you have done already) but a little chocolate bribery once in awhile can help swing things your way. :wink:

We're going to be open on thanksgiving, so i'm going to need some kick-ass pumpkin pie recipe for starters.  I'm also considering running a trio of different-flavored creme brulees...maybe classic, sweet potato and - cranberry?  How would i get cranberry flavoring into a creme brulee?

I'm sure you will get lots of responses to your creme brulee question. As for pie, I just did the digest for Bon Appetit's Thanksgiving issue and one of the pie recipes was for a pumpkin pie with gingersnap crust topped with a cinnamon & ginger flavored whipped cream, which sounded really good.
Thanks for taking the time out of your very busy day to keep us updated about your job and your dessert challenges.

“Peter: Oh my god, Brian, there's a message in my Alphabits. It says, 'Oooooo.'
Brian: Peter, those are Cheerios.”
– From Fox TV’s “Family Guy”


#54 Wendy DeBord

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Posted 21 October 2003 - 02:16 PM

Toliver beat me to a couple remarks I was going to make.

I ditto him on soaking your raisins. Even if you only use boiling h20 they're better soaked then dry. You also can keep a small bucket of bourbon raisins ready to go.


You MUST insist upon getting pellets of chocolate! By the time you chop your blocks the wasted time is no savings! When you have spare time (if you ever do) prep all your chocolate by using the cusinart and keep it in a bucket ready to go. Or if there's ever anyone standing still enlist them to chop....people like to help others.


One of my favorite simple tricks on pie crusts is baking them upside down. Trust me you'll be happy with your results. Assuming your using tins (glass plates won't work)....place your dough in the tin then place another tin into it, invert and bake inverted. Your crust bakes very evenly this way and the sides can't slouch down.

Ditto on loosing the word calfouti!! Change the name and sales should increase.

I'd like freshly deep fryed SALTED pecans in a crunchie crumble ontop of my bourbon pudding....just a thought.

I think it's the red wine poached pears that's doing in your poundcake. Personally I'd use a sweeter white wine or make it a compote/salsa and add cinnamon(or any flavor) ice cream and the cake.

Last, try buying in a raspberry puree. Some brands are very thick and it would simplify your time. I'd guess that changing this wouldn't be more expensive then what your currently doing.

I'm hoping to be helpful, not witchy. It sounds like your doing well and thinking fast on your feet. Whenever you can do prep that will hold-do it. Working in larger volumes saves you time. Like how you keep a bucket of brulee on hand. You can do the same with your pie filling or keep rolled pie crusts in the freezer, chopped bread cubes in the freezer, pear pound cake should freeze well, biscotti both baked and unbaked in the freezer......

#55 Toliver

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Posted 21 October 2003 - 02:54 PM

You MUST insist upon getting pellets of chocolate!

What a great idea, Sinclair! Marsha, it would save you a lot of time. Give the Chef who does the ordering some of your special truffles and then ask him to order pellets. :smile:

“Peter: Oh my god, Brian, there's a message in my Alphabits. It says, 'Oooooo.'
Brian: Peter, those are Cheerios.”
– From Fox TV’s “Family Guy”


#56 alanamoana

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Posted 21 October 2003 - 05:30 PM

if you do a trio of creme brulee for t-giving, why don't you do pumpkin? it's fairly easy to use your already prepared brulee/bread pudding base and add some pumpkin puree (fresh or canned) and some pumpkin type spices (change it up and make it a little more fun) bake as you would.

use the cranberries in a tart or something (you can use dried cranberries too). i think maury rubin has a cranberry tart that has all kinds of dried fruit and caramelized nuts in it. sounds like something you can do and still be considered southern style.

there are hundreds of ideas i'm sure people have, but i'm thinking about how much time you're spending there and what would make sense with your production schedule.

oh yes, please get the pistoles! barry/callebaut milk chocolate and try the e. guittard for bittersweet and white. they have a signature series which is inexpensive and very good for general use (almost everything). i don't like their milk chocolate (guittard) because it is malty tasting (this is my opinion). i like barry/callebaut for milk chocolate. everyone is right in thinking that the amount of time and labor you save more than makes up for the small extra cost of getting pistoles!

have fun!

#57 zilla369

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Posted 22 October 2003 - 10:05 AM

Toliver beat me to a couple remarks I was going to make.

I ditto him on soaking your raisins. Even if you only use boiling h20 they're better soaked then dry. You also can keep a small bucket of bourbon raisins ready to go.


This is a great suggestion - although i really prefer the dried cherries - but there's no reason i can't soak the cherries in bourbon, yes? Does the bourbon have to be warmed first?

You MUST insist upon getting pellets of chocolate! By the time you chop your blocks the wasted time is no savings!


Definitely going to look into this. How big are these "pistoles" or pellets? I don't think i've ever seen anyone using them. If anything can keep me from chopping chocolate as much as i am, i'm all for it. I think Chef would go for it as well, if it saved me time - depending on the price difference, of course. Anyone have any idea what the general price difference might be?

One of my favorite simple tricks on pie crusts is baking them upside down. Trust me you'll be happy with your results. Assuming your using tins (glass plates won't work)....place your dough in the tin then place another tin into it, invert and bake inverted. Your crust bakes very evenly this way and the sides can't slouch down.


OMG, if this works it will change my LIFE! I've been using black beans on parchment paper for blind baking, and what a time-consuming drag that is. I'm going to try it this weekend!

I think it's the red wine poached pears that's doing in your poundcake. Personally I'd use a sweeter white wine or make it a compote/salsa and add cinnamon(or any flavor) ice cream and the cake.


Maybe i wasn't clear on this... the pears within the cake itself are just regular diced yellow pears. The side garnish is half a poached pear fanned out...and though these are poached in red wine, there's also plenty of sugar and cinnamon sticks in the poaching liquid. They're nicely sweet, and a gorgeous purple color on the outside, fading to a delicate yellow towards the middle of the slices. Really a pretty presentation. *Sigh*...i think folks are just afraid of pears.

Last, try buying in a raspberry puree. Some brands are very thick and it would simplify your time. I'd guess that changing this wouldn't be more expensive then what your currently doing.


Well, here's the thing. The bourbon-marinated berries i use in the berry "napolean" start to break down and/or get foamy (i.e., begin to ferment) after only a few service shifts, so i need to recycle them anyway. I don't think a puree would make as complex a tasting sauce. You're right; lot of work, though.

if you do a trio of creme brulee for t-giving, why don't you do pumpkin? it's fairly easy to use your already prepared brulee/bread pudding base and add some pumpkin puree (fresh or canned) and some pumpkin type spices (change it up and make it a little more fun) bake as you would.


Actually, the reason i thought of cranberry rather than pumpkin for the brulee trio is that i already plan to serve pumpkin pie and/or pumpkin cheesecake on the Thanksgiving menu. Also, i figured that sweet potato brulee and pumpkin brulee would be awfully close in color.

Thanks again, everyone for your ideas and suggestions. Especially that baking the pie crusts upside down one, Wendy!
Marsha Lynch aka "zilla369"

Has anyone ever actually seen a bandit making out?  

Uh-huh: just as I thought. Stereotyping.

#58 mckayinutah

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Posted 22 October 2003 - 10:32 AM

Hello Zilla,

Pistoles, or pellets, are basically anywhere from 1/4 " to 1/2 " round ( give or take alittle ) I, like everyone has said, believe these are your best bet, especially if you are going through the large amount of chocolate you say you are going through. A little more expensive, but definitelt worth it in the long run.

I am presently using a Callebaut dark chocolate pistole that I love, and I pay about $3.93/pound
( which isn't to shabby for a taste that I like ) You could probably shop around and find some cheaper stuff, but this is about the average cost for Callebaut in pistole form.

Good luck,


McKay ( JASON McCARTHY )

#59 Varmint

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Posted 22 October 2003 - 10:40 AM

Zilla, you may want to experiment a bit, but if you grease your pie tins well, you should be able to make a crustless chess pie. That's what I do when I need to whip together a quick dessert.
Dean McCord
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#60 tan319

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Posted 22 October 2003 - 02:06 PM

Hello Zilla,

Pistoles, or pellets, are basically anywhere from 1/4 " to 1/2 " round ( give or take alittle ) I, like everyone has said, believe these are your best bet, especially if you are going through the large amount of chocolate you say you are going through. A little more expensive, but definitelt worth it in the long run.

I am presently using a  Callebaut dark chocolate pistole that I love, and I pay about $3.93/pound
( which isn't to shabby for a taste that I like ) You could probably shop around and find some cheaper stuff, but this is about the average cost for Callebaut in pistole form.

Good luck,


McKay  ( JASON McCARTHY )

Zilla,
Cocoa Noel also makes a pistole that will cost you maybe a bit less? Italco carrie's the brand.
The savings in Labour ( not to mention all the stuff that get's lost on the cutting board) will make it worth it.
BTW, are you doing all this stuff solo?
No Assistant? No help?
Cause 192 on a Satuday night is a hellavu lot of covers !
Glad you're rocking it up!
2317/5000





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