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Rick Bayless and Burger King - Part 1


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#31 Steve Klc

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Posted 19 September 2003 - 12:14 PM

Erica--I agree completely that there is no defense if the sandwich actually is terrible!
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#32 Chris Cognac

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Posted 19 September 2003 - 01:51 PM

O.K...I just finished one for lunch. Not bad....not great, but not bad. It does not look anything like the picture!..The bread was actually pretty good, the sauce was a smokey flavor but did not have much heat to it. I was pleased to see that the chicken was a real breat, not a pressed and formed piece of crap. There were not alot of peppers or onions...but all in all, not a bad sandwhich and is a somewhat healthy alternative to burgers....But I am still suprised that Bayless endorsed it....Its nothing that I would expect him to be involved with....Not a high enough caliber product for him.
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#33 Craig Camp

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Posted 19 September 2003 - 02:17 PM

It is easy to talk about, but what would you really do if the man walked up with that REALLY big check? I mean the one with all the 0000000000000000's at the end. The kind of checks that a corporation like Burger King passes out.

Rick has worked his brains out and he has the right to reap the rewards of his work. He has a family he probably hopes to provide for long into their future. Something to which we all aspire. Like athletes, most chefs have a relatively brief time in the spotlight. As long as the athletes play as hard as they can and as long the chefs cook as hard as they can no one has a legitimate complaint.

As long as he maintains the integrity of his restaurants what is the problem?

The use of whore and pimp in regards to his decision can only be made by people who are not being honest with themselves about what they would do with the big payday came.

Why does everyone attack chefs when the make the big score while they calmly drink their chardonnay from producers who sold out from the beginning. Chefs have a right to success just like anyone else.
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#34 fresh_a

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Posted 19 September 2003 - 02:22 PM

Big checks buy everyone...
Anti-alcoholics are unfortunates in the grip of water, that terrible poison, so corrosive that out of all substances it has been chosen for washing and scouring, and a drop of water added to a clear liquid like Absinthe, muddles it." ALFRED JARRY

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#35 Jinmyo

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Posted 19 September 2003 - 02:42 PM

As long as he maintains the integrity of his restaurants what is the problem?

The integrity of his name?

Sure, he can do what he wants with it. And certainly this is not on the scale of serious crime. It is more on the scale of...oh, prostitution.

This is not a matter of Bayless working with BK to upgrade anything.

It is about the cheque with the big 0000000000000000's. Which is why it is also about a loss of integrity.

If he got muy muy 0000000000000000's, then good for him, as far as that goes. But for me, pimping for a BK sandwich is not worth the 0000000000000000's. I'm surprised it is to him. That's all.

Chef Rick is welcome to post and correct my misunderstanding of the situation.
"I've caught you Richardson, stuffing spit-backs in your vile maw. 'Let tomorrow's omelets go empty,' is that your fucking attitude?" -E. B. Farnum

"Behold, I teach you the ubermunch. The ubermunch is the meaning of the earth. Let your will say: the ubermunch shall be the meaning of the earth!" -Fritzy N.

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#36 Craig Camp

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Posted 19 September 2003 - 02:45 PM

As long as he maintains the integrity of his restaurants what is the problem?

The integrity of his name?

Sure, he can do what he wants with it. And certainly this is not on the scale of serious crime. It is more on the scale of...oh, prostitution.

This is not a matter of Bayless working with BK to upgrade anything.

It is about the cheque with the big 0000000000000000's. Which is why it is also about a loss of integrity.

If he got muy muy 0000000000000000's, then good for him, as far as that goes. But for me, pimping for a BK sandwich is not worth the 0000000000000000's. I'm surprised it is to him. That's all.

Chef Rick is welcome to post and correct my misunderstanding of the situation.

So you are saying under no circumstances will you accept a big promotional check from a large corporation.

Warning: do not attempt to answer this question unless you have been offered one and turned it down.
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#37 Coop

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Posted 19 September 2003 - 03:27 PM

So Mr Camp what would it cost for you to become the "Face and Voice" of Mad Dawg 20/20 or Night Train? A thousand? A Million? If you were would your future writrings carry the same integrity they do now?

Edited by Coop, 19 September 2003 - 03:28 PM.

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#38 Craig Camp

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Posted 19 September 2003 - 03:29 PM

So Mr Camp what would it cost for you to become the "Face and Voice" of Mad Dawg 20/20 or Night Train? A thousand? A Million?

A thousand not a chance. A million.... wait still thinking.
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#39 Coop

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Posted 19 September 2003 - 03:32 PM

I respect your honesty.
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#40 Craig Camp

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Posted 19 September 2003 - 03:34 PM

I respect your honesty.

You know those fortified wines go great with cheeses.


My only point is that is easy to judge when you are not the one offered the check. No one knows for sure what they would do unless they have to make the choice in reality. Many chefs hawk products that they would never dream of using - pans, knives, stoves and on and on. Why pick on Bayless just because he got a really big check for doing the same thing they all are?
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#41 Jinmyo

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Posted 19 September 2003 - 04:07 PM

Many chefs hawk products that they would never dream of using - pans, knives, stoves and on and on. Why pick on Bayless just because he got a really big check for doing the same thing they all are?

Craig, come on. It's a Burger King sandwich.

I wouldn't eat one for $100 because I wouldn't give the person offering the satisfaction. For a $1,000 I'd take a bite and donate it to charity.

I've turned down $375,000* so I guess I can't say what I would or wouldn't do when it comes to $380, 000 and over.


*Not for anything culinary.

edit:
I should add thought that I didn't and don't need the money.

But then, I don't think Bayless is doing so badly that he needs the money badly enough to pimp for a Burger King sandwich either.

Edited by Jinmyo, 19 September 2003 - 04:21 PM.

"I've caught you Richardson, stuffing spit-backs in your vile maw. 'Let tomorrow's omelets go empty,' is that your fucking attitude?" -E. B. Farnum

"Behold, I teach you the ubermunch. The ubermunch is the meaning of the earth. Let your will say: the ubermunch shall be the meaning of the earth!" -Fritzy N.

"It's okay to like celery more than yogurt, but it's not okay to think that batter is yogurt."

Serving fine and fresh gratuitous comments since Oct 5 2001, 09:53 PM

#42 Craig Camp

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Posted 19 September 2003 - 04:19 PM

My favorite record is The Who "Sells Out".

I will eat a Whopper for $100 bucks. By the way Whoppers are perfect with Kendall Jackson Zinfandel (100 pts. in my new Guide to Wines with Big Advertising Dollars)

That would be Craig Camp's Guide to B.A.D. Wines.
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#43 ronnie_suburban

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Posted 19 September 2003 - 04:21 PM

Why does everyone attack chefs when the make the big score while they calmly drink their chardonnay from producers who sold out from the beginning. Chefs have a right to success just like anyone else.

Not sure about the chardonnay part of this comment (because I don't believe that even wine purists have a tremendously valid argument here), but I agree with the rest of it. A big check, especially when dispensed in exchange for what was received in this case, is nothing more than a relatively benign means to an end for the recipient. Has RB broken any promises or pledges in making it? Did he ever insist that he absolutely stood for something (culinarily speaking)? I think there is a tendency in cases like this for people to hold the subject to a higher standard than he holds himself.

The guy's toiled diligently for decades and now has a chance to cash in on his name and his body of work...why shouldn't he? Especially if it means furthering security for his family. The act of endorsing a product (even a bad one) is neither unethical nor immoral. It harms no one.

Does it erode a bit of RB's "mystique"? Probably so, but what's the worst case scenario for him? That a bunch of purists lose respect for him and write him off? I doubt it'll have any negative effect on his restaurants or his products. For every disgusted foodie-purist who writes him off, 2 n00bs, who've previously never heard of him, will now probably try his retail line. It's likely that RB did his best to calculate the fall-out in advance of making this agreement and realized that there would be little or none. He may have even believed that making it would improve the quality of life for himself and his family.

Does RB care if Citizen X (or eGulleteer X for that matter) likes him or respects him? Probably not. He's got a business to run and he's doing what he can to grow it. It's likely that this will end up being a good business decision for him. The revenue stream which pays for the orthodontia, tuition, etc. in the Bayless household will probably grow in size and security as a result of this decision.

Who says a chef must spend his (or her) entire existence as a tortured artist? Maybe I'm too much of a pragmatist, but that kind of romantic notion has very little relevance IMO.

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#44 Jinmyo

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Posted 19 September 2003 - 04:21 PM

Craig, I still like "Who's Next." It holds up.
"I've caught you Richardson, stuffing spit-backs in your vile maw. 'Let tomorrow's omelets go empty,' is that your fucking attitude?" -E. B. Farnum

"Behold, I teach you the ubermunch. The ubermunch is the meaning of the earth. Let your will say: the ubermunch shall be the meaning of the earth!" -Fritzy N.

"It's okay to like celery more than yogurt, but it's not okay to think that batter is yogurt."

Serving fine and fresh gratuitous comments since Oct 5 2001, 09:53 PM

#45 Jinmyo

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Posted 19 September 2003 - 04:24 PM

Who says a chef must spend his (or her) entire existence as a tortured artist?  Maybe I'm too much of a pragmatist, but that kind of romantic notion has very little relevance IMO.

Righto.

And I hope the Rickster is very happy. And prosperous. And continues to do great work with his restaurants, books, and TV shows.

But pimping is pimping.
"I've caught you Richardson, stuffing spit-backs in your vile maw. 'Let tomorrow's omelets go empty,' is that your fucking attitude?" -E. B. Farnum

"Behold, I teach you the ubermunch. The ubermunch is the meaning of the earth. Let your will say: the ubermunch shall be the meaning of the earth!" -Fritzy N.

"It's okay to like celery more than yogurt, but it's not okay to think that batter is yogurt."

Serving fine and fresh gratuitous comments since Oct 5 2001, 09:53 PM

#46 Bicycle Lee

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Posted 19 September 2003 - 04:26 PM

I ate a Whopper today...and they didn't pay me...in fact I paid them....
and it was good too....
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#47 ronnie_suburban

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Posted 19 September 2003 - 04:38 PM

But pimping is pimping.

I'm sorry but that's just too black and white for me to embrace Jinmyo. I respect your opinion but I'll disagree with it in this case. Actually I don't even completely disagree with you...I'm just arguing this particular side of it today because it's a grey area for me.

I'm trying to think of a profession where, if someone made a similar decision, I'd be more outraged over it. And, as I inferred up-thread, if he genuinely doesn't like this product (I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt on this count), I'm feeling a lot less sympathetic toward him right now. Lying, especially for financial gain, is at the very least, unethical...and I can't get behind that.

=R=
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#48 Jinmyo

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Posted 19 September 2003 - 04:44 PM

I ate a Whopper today...and they didn't pay me...in fact  I paid them....
and it was good too....

Great.

And if you like that kind of food, great. Certainly then, saying so publically and accepting lucre to do so involves no loss of integrity.

Perhaps Bayless does too.

Perhaps like Rocco, who mainly eats tinned soups and stuff when at home, Chef Rick really really likes Whoppers and Thopters and Bug Macs and Fries With That and Headache Shakes. In which case pimpery is not an issue.

"Look! Ricky likes it!"

Or perhaps he's just cashing in, saying that it doesn't matter.

"Firestone tires? Sure. I'll say I've used themm for twenty years. Right is left and left is right? Sure. I'll say that. Airstrip One has always been at war with Oceania and choco rations are up to 1.2 grams from 1.5 grams this week. Sure. I'll say that."

Since I like Rick Bayless, I'm prepared to think his integrity means something and to feel its loss is a bad thing.

But again, maybe he loves the sandwich.

Rick? You out there? rb123, please post.
"I've caught you Richardson, stuffing spit-backs in your vile maw. 'Let tomorrow's omelets go empty,' is that your fucking attitude?" -E. B. Farnum

"Behold, I teach you the ubermunch. The ubermunch is the meaning of the earth. Let your will say: the ubermunch shall be the meaning of the earth!" -Fritzy N.

"It's okay to like celery more than yogurt, but it's not okay to think that batter is yogurt."

Serving fine and fresh gratuitous comments since Oct 5 2001, 09:53 PM

#49 Jinmyo

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Posted 19 September 2003 - 04:51 PM

But pimping is pimping.

I'm sorry but that's just too black and white for me to embrace Jinmyo. I respect your opinion but I'll disagree with it in this case

Don't worry about it. I am of course simplifying more than a bit.

We really don't know enough about this yet. At least I don't.

I haven't even actually seen the advert.

And prolly never will because the product will prolly die in a few weeks, long before broadcasting the advert to the Frozen Wastes of Canada TM would become likely.

But the issue of personal integrity (what would I do) is always worth walking around the block. To some, it means little. To others, a great deal. What does this tell us? What does iot tell me? What would I do or not do? "Under the chestnut tree."*


*Another gratitous reference to O's "1984" for those playing at home.
"I've caught you Richardson, stuffing spit-backs in your vile maw. 'Let tomorrow's omelets go empty,' is that your fucking attitude?" -E. B. Farnum

"Behold, I teach you the ubermunch. The ubermunch is the meaning of the earth. Let your will say: the ubermunch shall be the meaning of the earth!" -Fritzy N.

"It's okay to like celery more than yogurt, but it's not okay to think that batter is yogurt."

Serving fine and fresh gratuitous comments since Oct 5 2001, 09:53 PM

#50 fifi

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Posted 19 September 2003 - 04:55 PM

Actually, I am going to retract my comment about "feet of clay". If the guy can make a bunch of money and that makes it possible for him to continue to take his emplyees on the yearly excursions into Mexico, continue to promote the wonders of Mexican cuisine, more power to him.
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#51 Jinmyo

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Posted 19 September 2003 - 04:59 PM

Actually, I am going to retract my comment about "feet of clay". If the guy can make a bunch of money and that makes it possible for him to continue to take his emplyees on the yearly excursions into Mexico, continue to promote the wonders of Mexican cuisine, more power to him.

Hm.

Did he then need the BK funds to do this? Are his restaurants so unstable to make this tradition unworkable now?

Rick?
"I've caught you Richardson, stuffing spit-backs in your vile maw. 'Let tomorrow's omelets go empty,' is that your fucking attitude?" -E. B. Farnum

"Behold, I teach you the ubermunch. The ubermunch is the meaning of the earth. Let your will say: the ubermunch shall be the meaning of the earth!" -Fritzy N.

"It's okay to like celery more than yogurt, but it's not okay to think that batter is yogurt."

Serving fine and fresh gratuitous comments since Oct 5 2001, 09:53 PM

#52 SWoodyWhite

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Posted 19 September 2003 - 05:24 PM

Jinmyo, by my count you have made three requests in this thread for RB to defend himself. What if he doesn't? Can we next expect some gloating, a la Bill O'Reilly, that because he hasn't responded therefor any and all allegations must be true?

One public request should have been enough, perhaps with a personal off-site invitation as a follow-up.
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#53 Basildog

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Posted 19 September 2003 - 06:05 PM

OOOOhh Good subject!

I don't know the chef in question from a hole in the wall, but can i assume he is running a sucessfull restaurant/s?So hes making a reasonable living.

Heres the rub...he either loves the new product he is hired to promote,no problemo :biggrin:
or
he's saying he likes it for a shed load of cash, which is a little dishonest. :angry:

I can honestly say that i would turn down big chunks of cash to promote a crap product.I want to be able to look back on my life, and my daughter in the eye, and know i only lied when it was absolutely neccesary.

#54 Jinmyo

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Posted 19 September 2003 - 06:05 PM

Jinmyo, by my count you have made three requests in this thread for RB to defend himself.  What if he doesn't?  Can we next expect some gloating, a la Bill O'Reilly, that because he hasn't responded therefor any and all allegations must be true?

One public request should have been enough, perhaps with a personal off-site invitation as a follow-up.

I'm sorry to have offended by repeating those invitations. They were primarily intended to be humourous references to the fact that regardless of what my own (as yet uninformed and primarily hyperbolic) opinion might be, ultimately it is up to Rick Bayless to know what this endorsement meant or did not mean to him.

For the sake of the outrageous title I gave to this piece in the Weekend Update (for which I compose extreme and often "fairly unbalanced" titles), I've made a few comments in a similiar vein here.

For the record:

Chef Bayless Might Or Might Not Be A Shameless Lying Pimp. Only he knows for sure.

But I do know I would be were I in his clogs having Done This Deed.

Good night Mr and Mrs America and all the ships at sea. Bon chance.
"I've caught you Richardson, stuffing spit-backs in your vile maw. 'Let tomorrow's omelets go empty,' is that your fucking attitude?" -E. B. Farnum

"Behold, I teach you the ubermunch. The ubermunch is the meaning of the earth. Let your will say: the ubermunch shall be the meaning of the earth!" -Fritzy N.

"It's okay to like celery more than yogurt, but it's not okay to think that batter is yogurt."

Serving fine and fresh gratuitous comments since Oct 5 2001, 09:53 PM

#55 ronnie_suburban

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Posted 19 September 2003 - 06:24 PM

Chef Bayless Might Or Might Not Be A Shameless Lying Pimp. Only he knows for sure.

:laugh: Nothing black and white about that...as grey as it gets :biggrin:

=R=
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#56 Jinmyo

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Posted 19 September 2003 - 06:30 PM

As grey as a BK chicken breast or ground beef. Or cheez. Or fries.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.
"I've caught you Richardson, stuffing spit-backs in your vile maw. 'Let tomorrow's omelets go empty,' is that your fucking attitude?" -E. B. Farnum

"Behold, I teach you the ubermunch. The ubermunch is the meaning of the earth. Let your will say: the ubermunch shall be the meaning of the earth!" -Fritzy N.

"It's okay to like celery more than yogurt, but it's not okay to think that batter is yogurt."

Serving fine and fresh gratuitous comments since Oct 5 2001, 09:53 PM

#57 guajolote

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Posted 19 September 2003 - 07:11 PM

RB is also a "consulting chef" for Marshall Fields (big Chicago Department store owned by the same company that owns Target), along with a bunch of FoodTV people.

Is this pimping?

He also did menus for United Airlines about five years ago.


#58 Peter B Wolf

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Posted 19 September 2003 - 07:42 PM

"......I know that sarcasm isn't easily detected over the web, but....are you serious?
I highly doubt that BK is going to turn pseudo-haute anytime in the near future...perhaps post-2012, but surely not until Timewave Zero has come to fruition......."

Why not?

Every either new or well known product being marketed today are automatically labeled "GOURMET"

Read all the press releases manufacturers send out, everything is 'Gourmet'.

Even peanuts are 'gourmet', I mean they are good, they are delicious, and even nutritious, BUT "GOURMET" ???, Come on !!

And you are right (in a way), the next marketing strategy will be "Haute Cuisine" ('gourmet' will fade)

Am I sarcastic ?, you bet your sweet 'gourmet' bibby !
Peter

#59 KatieLoeb

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Posted 19 September 2003 - 07:59 PM

I ate a Whopper today...and they didn't pay me...in fact  I paid them....
and it was good too....

I'd certainly eat one if someone else was paying...

And if they were paying me in addtion to buying the sandwich, that's just a bonus. :raz:

Was Dr. Atkins "pimping" his medical research and knowledge when he wrote "The Atkins Diet"? Is Johnny Cochran or Mark Geragos a "sellout" to the entire legal profession? Why must creative people be punished or ridiculed for trying to make a living and provide for their families in the same type of income bracket as "professionals"??? Is it because CIA isn't Harvard Law or Wharton? This is just a bullshit double standard IMO, that's probably tainted with a little envy to boot.

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#60 Peter B Wolf

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Posted 19 September 2003 - 08:12 PM

"...... Why must creative people be punished or ridiculed for "trying to make a living and provide for their families in the same type of income bracket as "professionals"???  Is it because CIA isn't Harvard Law or Wharton?  This is just a bullshit double standard IMO, that's probably tainted with a little envy to boot...."

Katie, Rick Bayless is a 'Professional' !!
This ' bullshit double standard '
is something always bothering me.

Why is this term always and only granted to Doctors and Lawyers ?

I have been and still am (although retired) a "Professional Chef"

Give me slack or tighten the rein. Enlighten me, please.
Peter