112 replies to this topic

[agray]

Keller's ratio looks to be about 2.5 times higher than yours, Shalmanese - 5 oz per 8 cups water. And I used 50% more than this, getting close to 4 times your medium brine! No wonder it was salty. Live and learn...

Oh, and the title of this thread should be TK pork tenderloin. I blame iPhone autocorrect...

Edited by agray, 22 November 2009 - 07:49 PM.

[howsmatt]

Can you brine and hold? For a few hours? A few days? Or will the salt start to adversely affect the meat?

[Shalmanese]

You can hold a 3% brine for as long as you would keep meat refrigerated. I would recommend bringing for at least 24 hours. For Keller's brine, holding for even an hour past the recommended will likely oversalt your meat.

[howsmatt]

Thanks, but I was really wondering if I can brine, take out of the water, seal sous-vide and leave on the shelf until used 2-8 days later.

[BistroPaul]

Dave The Cook- I've been wrong about things before but I'm fairly confident that the addition of sweeteners to the brine will increase the osmotic pressure of the brine and alter the rate of brine uptake. Because carbohydrates are not ionic compounds they won't change this as much as adding more salt would, but they will certainly have some effect.

Howsmatt- I can see no reason that wouldn't be fine, this is effectively what is done with the pre-marinated packages you can get at grocery stores. I would be cautious of going more than 2-3 days after repackaging because of possible bacterial contamination.

Paul

[howsmatt]

I thought about the pre packaged stuff but figure they also have preservatives. Is there a reason a saltier pork chop is likely to acquire bacteria more quickly than a plain pork chop?

[gfweb]

Salt is a bit antibacterial even in 3% concentrations, but not enough to think of it as a sterilizing measure. Many pathogens, esp Staph, have no problem with modest salinity.

[skinnye]

I have seen plenty of reasons to brine meats/poultry and have seen minimum times listed, but have never seen a maximum time.

I ask because I have duck legs and breasts being brined and didn't quite get to putting them in the sous vide this morning, so would it be good tomorrow? It would have been in the brine for 36 hrs tomorrow morning. Are there any safety issues? Are there any flavor issues?

[tim]

Hi,

Yes, there are flavor issues from excessive salt. Brining formula's do include maximum times depending on the salinity of the solution.

Tim

[Shalmanese]

There are two types of brines, ones which you brine to equilibrium and ones where you brine under equilibrium. A 3% salt solution allows you to keep meat in it indefinitely as the meat will never get more than 3% salt which is close to perfectly seasoned. Brines of 5% or more, while faster, require you to pull the meat after a certain point of the meat will become over salted.

Oddly enough, most cookbook authors seems to prefer higher percentage brines even though they're markedly less user friendly.

After 36 hours, here's a simple tip to figure out if your brine is ok: Take some of the brining liquid, boil it and then taste it. If it's nicely seasoned, your duck is fine. If it's unpleasantly salty, so will your duck. A possible solution to rescue the legs might be to do a traditional style confit as the oil will pull some of the salt out of the legs.

[skinnye]

The brine was above the 5% salinity, but I rinsed them pretty well and they spent 9 hrs in the sous vide and ended up a little salty, but not bad, there is a maximum saturation level with salt, so even 36 hrs was acceptable...

[Blether]

The brine was above the 5% salinity, but I rinsed them pretty well and they spent 9 hrs in the sous vide and ended up a little salty, but not bad, there is a maximum saturation level with salt, so even 36 hrs was acceptable...

Ooh, careful. Unless it's a very small duck, you won't reach max saturation in 36 hours. Think somewhere between 60 and 100.

[ChrisTaylor]

Is it a good idea to brine veal schnitzel?

[Mjx]

Is it a good idea to brine veal schnitzel?

Every time I've brined veal, it's made it mushy. But veal never really seems to need it, anyway (not that that stopped me from experimenting, obviously).

[Dakki]

Questions about this 3% brine thing.

How should I calculate the amount of salt required? Do I include the meat in the calculation or just the water?

eg, 48.5 parts meat, 48.5 parts water, 3 parts salt, or 97 parts water, 3 parts salt?

How long do you guys think I should brine a 8.65 kilo/19 lb turkey in a 3% brine?

[FrogPrincesse]

Questions about this 3% brine thing.

How should I calculate the amount of salt required? Do I include the meat in the calculation or just the water?

eg, 48.5 parts meat, 48.5 parts water, 3 parts salt, or 97 parts water, 3 parts salt?

This is the salt concentration in water, not taking the meat into account.
For example, use 30 grams of salt per 1 liter of water.

[qrn]

Its "brine to equalibrium" its the total weight of the meat and the water with enough salt to get the desired %,after leaving it long enough to "reach equalibrium.I made an excel work sheet that makes the whole thing very easy to calculate...works perfect every time...
Bud

[Dakki]

Makes sense.

What's the desired percentage (3%? Seems pretty high) and how do you calculate the minimum time to reach it?

[qrn]

Makes sense.

What's the desired percentage (3%? Seems pretty high) and how do you calculate the minimum time to reach it?

%is to taste,I use3.5% for bacon and,any thing more than that, is to salty,the time to "equalibrium"is probably not something you can say exactly what it should be,Its whatever is good to your taste, but that is the good part of "equalibrium work,
when the product is to "equalibrium" it won't get any more than the calculated level(you can't leave it in to long..),so you guess a time, and leave it in longer and it will never get more than your calculation...
Bud

[Blether]

It's worth reading the short Wet-curing bacon thread too. Dave uses a calculation that only includes the water %age of the meat (a putative 65%). Why, I don't know. Instinctively I'd go with the whole weight.

Brining equlilibrium time (penetration time by any method) always depends on the thickest part of the meat. I do pork belly in a strong (80% saturated) brine for 3.5 days, then allow to dry and equalise (i.e. reach equilibrium) for a couple of days more.

A limit on brining time is the keeping quality of the meat, especially in a domestic fridge being used day-to-day. Ideal brining temperature is 1 - 2C. I lay an esky-box pack on top of the brining box, and change in a new one every 12 hours or so.

[qrn]

Brining equlilibrium time (penetration time by any method) always depends on the thickest part of the meat. I do pork belly in a strong (80% saturated) brine for 3.5 days, then allow to dry and equalise (i.e. reach equilibrium) for a couple of days more.

interesting on the bacon,When I do bacon I dry cure it and use the desired weight % of curesalt on the surface
and then put it in a tight fitting plastic bag,in the fridge for a week or so,untill it is all absorbed into the belly,then off to the smoker and then sit a while and see if my meat slicer is gonna work right that day...
Bud

[Dakki]

Thanks for all the info.

On this turkey thing, does 32 kilos (meat + water) plus 1 kilo salt plus 1/2 kilo sugar, brined for 48 hours sound about right?


EDIT: I'm also planning to rest the thing for 24 hours to dry the skin before roasting, hopefully this will help equalize the salt throughout the meat.

Edited by Dakki, 17 November 2011 - 08:50 PM.

[EnriqueB]

About the time for "brine to equilibrium", the other day I brined a lamb leg to a target salt percentage of 0,7%, and left it 48 hours in the fridge. Supposedly you can leave it longer than needed, but what I noticed is that the water had taken some color and smell from the meat. So I wonder whether it was too long, and whether healthy minerals, vitamins, and taste/odor molecules were being lost into the water when using this method...