99 replies to this topic

[Pan]

I understand that almost any kosher meat restaurant will be overpriced relative to treyf places, because of inherent costs of kashrut and also supply and demand. So that isn't really the question. The problem with "mediocre and overpriced" isn't really the prices but that it feels even worse to have mediocrity if it's overpriced.

Anyway, I appreciate your recommendation (I was starting to wonder if anyone would reply!) but find it hard to get excited over Fine and Shapiro's. I had my bar mitzvah catered by them when they were a "kosher-style" deli, and it was for convenience (they were close to the synagogue), not because they were ever close to being the best deli in town. I haven't been there for decades, but is it celebratory? Is it better than 2nd Av. Deli (which I'm almost positive we're not going to for this)?

[weinoo]

I understand that almost any kosher meat restaurant will be overpriced relative to treyf places, because of inherent costs of kashrut and also supply and demand. So that isn't really the question. The problem with "mediocre and overpriced" isn't really the prices but that it feels even worse to have mediocrity if it's overpriced.

Anyway, I appreciate your recommendation (I was starting to wonder if anyone would reply!) but find it hard to get excited over Fine and Shapiro's. I had my bar mitzvah catered by them when they were a "kosher-style" deli, and it was for convenience (they were close to the synagogue), not because they were ever close to being the best deli in town. I haven't been there for decades, but is it celebratory? Is it better than 2nd Av. Deli (which I'm almost positive we're not going to for this)?

Celebratory - no, not really. I haven't been to the "new" 2nd Ave. Deli (which probably isn't kosher enough for your needs anyway).

The annoying thing about kosher is that it doesn't have to be as lousy as it is in so many restaurants. I mean, vegetables are kosher, grains are kosher, most fish is kosher...so why can't it be well prepared? I can make a delicious stew with lamb or beef, an awesome roast chicken, some pretty damn good risotto, etc. etc., all with kosher product...and restaurants that charge the prices that fancy kosher places charge should be able to as well.

[David A. Goldfarb]

Fine and Shapiro catered our son's bris about three years ago. Eh. It's okay, if you need kosher, but the food is nothing special, and the atmosphere of the restaurant is a lot like that of a diner. I also think they are kosher but not shomer shabbos.

I've never been to Estihana, the kosher sushi place in the same neighborhood, but I've always been curious about it--

http://www.estihana.com/manhattan/

[Pan]

Don't go to Estihana. It is HORRIBLE! Really, really horrible!

weinoo, you're right that 2nd Av. Deli wouldn't work for this purpose, anyway, because they are open on Saturdays. And you're also right that there is no inherent reason kosher food can't be great. I think part of the problem is that there's a degree of oligopolism in higher-end kosher eateries, because the number of kosher restaurants, although larger in New York than most other places in the world, is still limited, yet there is a substantial clientele that demands only kosher food. Therefore, many kosher establishments can get away with not trying much, or even presenting execrable food.

[David A. Goldfarb]

Thanks for the warning! It seemed like a good concept.

[raji]

Don't go to Estihana. It is HORRIBLE! Really, really horrible!

[Pan]

I should add one caveat: It's been a while since I went to Estihana (not sure how long; possibly as much as a couple of years). However, unless they are under completely new management, I'd avoid them like the swine flu.

[Pan]

Just in case anyone is interested, here's my report on Mike's Bistro:

Based on our experience, it is a flat-out good restaurant. Service was excellent. The decor was a bit strange; I felt the lamps looked like soccer balls, and my mother didn't like the looks of the white rose on our table, which was in a combination of water and some kind of preservative jelly, and she had the staff remove it. But the service and food were the most important things.

For apps, my mother and godmother shared the "Handmade Gnocchi duck & chicken confit, roasted portobello mushrooms, fresh thyme, duck jus." I didn't get a taste, but they both really liked it. My father and I got individual portions of "Crispy Veal Sweetbreads english pea puree, fresh corn, marinated tomato, veal glace, mushrooms." I found them kind of salty and not as good as the amazing sweetbread dish I had at Degustation or the good sweetbread dish I had at lunch at Jean Georges, but the mushrooms really helped the dish.

However, mains were yet to come. Three of us ordered "Sautéed Duck Breast duck confit leg, sweet & sour red cabbage, yam fritters, cranberry port sauce." This was excellent! The yam fritters were delicious and an inspired element, the duck breast was nicely cooked, and though the leg was a bit salty, that really didn't bother me much. The sauce was very nice, and the cabbage was a wonderful, upscale homage to Central/East European Jewish (and also non-Jewish) cuisine. Just a really good dish that pleased all of us.

My father got "Black Angus Rib Eye Fillet." Due to dietary restrictions, he cannot eat potatoes or green beans, and they were kind enough to substitute buckwheat pilaf with golden raisins. I tried a small slice of his rib eye, and it was excellent.

My mother, the birthday girl, was comped a slice of very good chocolate mousse cake with raspberry sauce that she shared with the table.

My godmother and I had a very good merlot-cab blend with the meal, which went very well with the duck. I had two glasses.

Our experience was so much better than what we've been having at Le Marais. I expect that we will return.

All menu descriptions frrom Mike's Bistro's website.

[DanM]

I want to bump this to see if there are new suggestions in the five boroughs.


Dan

[patrickamory]

I miss Grand Dairy :(