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Soy Milk in desserts

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#1 bloviatrix

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Posted 31 August 2003 - 12:12 PM

Ok, I know this is sacriligous, but I need some help.

I'm planning my menus for Rosh Hashannah, and most of meals will be meat based. This means I can't serve dairy-based desserts. Does anyone have experience using soy milk to make pastry cream or ice cream? If it's doable, I'm thinking about that as an option.
"Some people see a sheet of seaweed and want to be wrapped in it. I want to see it around a piece of fish."-- William Grimes

"People are bastard-coated bastards, with bastard filling." - Dr. Cox on Scrubs

#2 jackal10

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Posted 31 August 2003 - 12:53 PM

Strictly its not Kosher either, "chukas h'goy", since it might deceive a stranger into thinking that the law prohibiting meat and milk could be broken.

Tastes awful as well...

#3 Jason Perlow

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Posted 31 August 2003 - 12:59 PM

Screw the fake dairy. Go with sorbets.

Also some sesame-based desserts would be cool, like Halvah. Or maybe marzipans.
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#4 bloviatrix

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Posted 31 August 2003 - 01:05 PM

It's just that I would really like to do a nice fruit tart with a pastry cream. I think it would look impressive.

As for halvah, I can't seem to find a recipe for it (I was on a quest about 4 months ago - pre-egullet). Do you have one? My m-i-l is addicted to halvah. I would make a lifelong ally if I could make it from scratch. :smile:
"Some people see a sheet of seaweed and want to be wrapped in it. I want to see it around a piece of fish."-- William Grimes

"People are bastard-coated bastards, with bastard filling." - Dr. Cox on Scrubs

#5 Jason Perlow

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Posted 31 August 2003 - 01:08 PM

http://www.recipesou...07/rec0749.html

http://www.cdkitchen...id=2974&scale=1

Either of these dipped in melted chocolate would be great.
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#6 Lesley C

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Posted 31 August 2003 - 01:21 PM

I tasted a soy latte at Starbucks the other day. It was so awful I threw it in the garbage after two sips. Just imagine plain cooked white navy beans, pureed and mixed with espresso. :wacko:
Please don't ruin your good desserts with that stuff.

#7 Lochina

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Posted 31 August 2003 - 01:27 PM

You could do a frangipane (sp?) fruit tart.

#8 Jason Perlow

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Posted 31 August 2003 - 01:31 PM

Here's a walnut-based halvah:

http://food.epicurio...e/view?id=40004

and two almond ones:

http://groups.google...aol.com&rnum=23


and one flavored with saffron:

http://groups.google...est.net&rnum=21
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#9 bloviatrix

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Posted 31 August 2003 - 01:34 PM

I need to rant for a moment. I know that all desserts taste better when made with butter, cream, milk, etc. I've confined my cooking to dairy only this summer, and as a result, my desserts have been nice and rich. Before this summer I never kept a steady supply of heavy cream in fridge, but this summer I've gone a bit wild. So, now that we're going back to fall and the holidays, I'll be returning to cooking meat meals, which means finding the appropriate desserts. And I'm feeling the frustration of being limited. I know sorbets are an option, and I have pareve equipment for my ice cream maker. Last year I made a mango-star anise sorbet that went over well. Gordon Ramsey has fruit gelees in his book, and that looks promising. I can always go the poached fruit route, and I've done that many times. It's just that I want to do something different. Hence my thoughts about soy milk.

This is when kashrut is a bitch.

End rant.
"Some people see a sheet of seaweed and want to be wrapped in it. I want to see it around a piece of fish."-- William Grimes

"People are bastard-coated bastards, with bastard filling." - Dr. Cox on Scrubs

#10 Jason Perlow

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Posted 31 August 2003 - 01:37 PM

Theres no need to rant. That's why we're tying to help you come up with solutions.

However, I feel that "fake dairy" really should not be attempted when there are perfectly good, delicious, valid, non-dairy desserts that can be served -- especially authentically Jewish ones like Halvah.
Jason Perlow
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#11 bloviatrix

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Posted 31 August 2003 - 01:42 PM

Jason, believe me, I appreciate the suggestions. As I've already said, halvah is a great idea. And I'm open to other ideas (perhaps I need to start a new thread call desserts w/no diary?).

I'm far from traditional when I cook my meals, so the ideas don't have to Jewish in nature.
"Some people see a sheet of seaweed and want to be wrapped in it. I want to see it around a piece of fish."-- William Grimes

"People are bastard-coated bastards, with bastard filling." - Dr. Cox on Scrubs

#12 Lesley C

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Posted 31 August 2003 - 01:57 PM

Your idea is commendable. It's just that soy milk, IMO, has an off-putting vegetable taste that could ruin your desserts. Maybe you should try a few brands to find the one with the most neutral flavour.

#13 Katherine

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Posted 31 August 2003 - 02:18 PM

Why don't you just try substituting soy milk for dairy in a recipe in advance and see if it tastes acceptable to you?

#14 beans

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Posted 31 August 2003 - 02:24 PM

Any thoughts on that Almond Breezes stuff from Blue Diamond?

Here's a Rice Pudding with Almond Essence recipe that includes some nice rehydrated, dried cherries. Although I'd skip on the non-dairy whipped topping suggestion!

#15 bloviatrix

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Posted 31 August 2003 - 03:04 PM

Any thoughts on that Almond Breezes stuff from Blue Diamond?

Here's a Rice Pudding with Almond Essence recipe that includes some nice rehydrated, dried cherries.  Although I'd skip on the non-dairy whipped topping suggestion!

Your post reminded me that I have recipe for a Couscous pudding made with coconut milk and that might be a good idea.

As for Almond Breezes, I'm not sure if it's kosher. I'll have to take a look at it.
"Some people see a sheet of seaweed and want to be wrapped in it. I want to see it around a piece of fish."-- William Grimes

"People are bastard-coated bastards, with bastard filling." - Dr. Cox on Scrubs

#16 jersey13

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Posted 31 August 2003 - 06:07 PM

I read this post much earlier today and it just hit me now: Perhaps you could visit a vegan shop where they might have such things as non dairy cream cheese. While I have never had non dairy cheese myself, I was thinking that if it isn't just plain gross, you could make a nice no bake tart topped with fresh berries. The filling would simply be cream cheese, sugar and some fruit juice, and lemon rind, well beaten. You could use a graham crust done with margarine, toss the fruits with some preserves and spread it over the filling. Gourmet had a similar recipe using marscapone, but I have never seen non dairy marscapone. :smile:

Anyway, just though it might be a suggestion.....

On another note,if you can figure out how it's made, I have had tofu ice cream and I loved it....

Edited by jersey13, 31 August 2003 - 06:09 PM.


#17 NeroW

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Posted 31 August 2003 - 06:11 PM

If you're sticking with the fruit tart idea, I would second the frangipane suggestion.

EDIT: I have an easy recipe for pear and frangipane tarts. They are really beautiful. :smile:

Edited by NeroW, 31 August 2003 - 06:12 PM.

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#18 jersey13

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Posted 31 August 2003 - 06:20 PM

Please educate the ignorant: What exactly is frangipane? :biggrin:

#19 bloviatrix

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Posted 31 August 2003 - 06:25 PM

Please educate the ignorant: What exactly is frangipane? :biggrin:

Frangipane is almond cream. Think sugar, almonds, butter, eggs, and flour. When baked, it becomes cakey.

The problem with frangipane is that it calls for butter (at least the Payard recipe calls for it). This means using margarine as a substitute. And although Payard's tart dough is suprisingly flakey with margerine, I don't know how the frangipane will taste.

Edited by bloviatrix, 31 August 2003 - 06:27 PM.

"Some people see a sheet of seaweed and want to be wrapped in it. I want to see it around a piece of fish."-- William Grimes

"People are bastard-coated bastards, with bastard filling." - Dr. Cox on Scrubs

#20 jersey13

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Posted 31 August 2003 - 06:34 PM

Thanks. Now that you describe it, I recall having it before I developed an allergy to almonds.
I generally find that substituting butter in things that really rely on it for flavour tends to be a mistake. That;s part of the reason I suggested the tart with graham crust. It's not butter dependent and you can add a dash of ginger or some lemon rind for flavour. Or, use ginger cookies instead. I know it sounds like something right out of a Kraft commercial, :raz: but we're working with a special dietary need.. (as you well know). You could try a normal crust using butter Crisco (I know, I know) and sweeten it, so as to imitate a sweet short crust.



I love butter. (Sorry, just had to get that out). :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

#21 Suzanne F

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Posted 31 August 2003 - 06:35 PM

Frangipane is a mixture of almond paste, sugar, butter (or in Bloviatrix's case, parve margarine), flour, and eggs. It is heavenly with pears, or probably any stone fruit. The extra flavor from the almond paste more than makes up for the lack of flavor from the margarine or vegetable shortening. It's a great suggestion.

Katherine's suggestion to try your dairy recipes with soy milk is also excellent. Although you'll probably find that you're happier NOT trying to substitute. I once had a "creme brulee" at a kosher steakhouse -- had to see what it was like -- and I regretted it on the first spoonful. You simply cannot substitute for some ingredients, when they contribute such a high proportion of the flavor -- and the fat in dairy is one of the elements that carries the flavors of the other ingredients. My mother used to refer to the "Ice cream" we'd be served at weddings and bar mitzvot as "frozen Spry." True, true.

As for beans's question about Almond Breezes: I make an iced almond milk that is just great (not just my opinion). I got the recipe off a carton of Italian almond milk. When I tried making it with AB, it was just not as good: the flavor of roasting was stronger than the flavor of almonds. But that was my taste; you might like it fine. It can work well as an ice milk. It will never have the richness of ice cream, though.

#22 bloviatrix

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Posted 31 August 2003 - 06:50 PM

If you're sticking with the fruit tart idea, I would second the frangipane suggestion.

EDIT: I have an easy recipe for pear and frangipane tarts.  They are really beautiful.  :smile:

Are you willing to share your recipe? The only one I have calls for heavy cream, which defeats the purpose.
"Some people see a sheet of seaweed and want to be wrapped in it. I want to see it around a piece of fish."-- William Grimes

"People are bastard-coated bastards, with bastard filling." - Dr. Cox on Scrubs

#23 Malawry

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Posted 31 August 2003 - 06:59 PM

I sometimes sub in coconut milk for regular milk in all sorts of recipes. I bet it would work in a pastry cream, and would taste pretty good to boot. Hmm, ginger-flavored crust, coconut pastry cream, and sliced tropical fruits might make a tasty pareve tart for the holidays.

I have cooked with Edensoy soy milk (which I regard as the least offensive soy milk) with moderate success. Some soy milks have a tendency to split when cooked for a long time, so I usually add them at the end of cooking. I've used them more like I would real cream to finish a sauce or soup than as the base of something like pastry cream, but it's worth a shot. BTW some people vehemently disagree that Edensoy is the least offensive, and I've learned over time that different soy milks can be better for different activities. I think Vitasoy froths better for a soy milk cappuccino (sorry Lesley), for example, but it's not as rich as edensoy. And for some, rice milk or almond milk simply taste better than soy milk.

Go to a natural foods store and buy single-serving containers of soy and other milks, it's the easiest way to sample several types. Then give it a shot and tell us what happens. Maybe you could make a soy pastry cream and a dairy pastry cream and compare them side-by-side if you really want to feel rueful. :laugh:

#24 jersey13

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Posted 31 August 2003 - 07:00 PM

Hi NeroW.
If you're PM'ing that frangipane recipe, mind sending one my way? :smile:

#25 Jason Perlow

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Posted 31 August 2003 - 07:01 PM

Oh yes, coconut milk. You could make a Thai rice pudding with coconut milk, with the mango slices on it.
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#26 Lesley C

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Posted 31 August 2003 - 07:03 PM

I remember making an excellent coconut cream pie from a Martha Stewart recipe last year that contained a custard made from coconut milk. It's definitely worth tracking down.
I'll look and see what magazine it came from.

#27 Jason Perlow

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Posted 31 August 2003 - 07:07 PM

"A ginger-flavored crust, coconut pastry cream, and sliced tropical fruits make a tasty pareve tart for the high holidays. Aunt Sadie would approve. It's a Good Thing." -- Martha Stewart Jewish Living
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#28 arlene

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Posted 31 August 2003 - 07:22 PM

There's no dairy in coconut cream? When you infuse milk with coconut and use that obviously thats dairy but you're saying that a can of cocoa lopez or the like would be lactose free? Wow thats a great idea.

#29 Alex

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Posted 31 August 2003 - 07:26 PM

It's out of print (and supposedly will be reprinted in a few months), but run, do not walk, to locate a copy of Chef Sato's All-Natural Desserts, by Satoru Sato. (Amazon and eBay don't have any, btw.) I was able to find one in my local library system.

Chef Sato is head cook and pastry chef at Bizen, an incredible organic Japanese restaurant in Great Barrington, MA. His cookbook features "42 Delicious Sugar-Free, Dairy-Free Cookies, Muffins, Cakes, Pies, Pastries, and Other Irresistible Sweets."

I had his Tiramisu at Bizen last month -- it was wonderful! :raz: My cousin says that his Chocolate Raspberry Cake is even better. If you can't find the book I'd be glad to send you a copy of these two recipes plus a couple others. Just PM me.

L'shana tova, in advance.
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#30 Malawry

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Posted 31 August 2003 - 07:31 PM

Just to be clear, I am referring to coconut milk, not coconut cream (which, due to its high sugar content, would probably not be easily subbed for regular milk). I just checked a can of coconut cream and the type I have does not contain any dairy products, though.

-Malawry Stewartz





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