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Mai Tai Recipes


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#91 Rafa

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Posted 26 October 2013 - 08:38 AM

 

 

Sadly I am running out of Grand Marnier.  I probably will replenish my Grand Marnier but what would people think about using, say, Cointreau?  I like Grand Marnier but I've never tasted Cointreau.  I've also seen a brandy based version of Cointreau.  Is Cointreau less sweet than Grand Marnier?  Which would be better in a Mai Tai?  And why?


Hmm. This may open a debate, but my understanding is that Grand Marnier is officially a Curaçao while Cointreau is a triple sec. The former is brandy (or other brown spirit)-based, while the latter starts with a more neutral spirit. Difference in taste? GM probably richer, maybe slightly sweeter; Cointreau a little lighter. But I can't see why Cointreau wouldn't work. Give it a try.

Or you could look up Jerry Thomas recipe 188 for English Curacoa (his spelling) a d make your own. It's not a complex recipe.

 

I've decided to play with something resembling Creole Shrub using rum - what do you suppose constitutes 'creole' spices?  Clove, cinnamon, nutmeg, allspice?

 

 

Probably these + vanilla in the Clement product. I think black pepper could do quite nicely but that's probably less traditional. 


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#92 Hassouni

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Posted 26 October 2013 - 09:02 AM

Now all we need is a Cajun shrub with onions, peppers, celery, and cayenne....


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#93 JoNorvelleWalker

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Posted 26 October 2013 - 12:30 PM

that might do quite nicely

 

Wait a moment, before I head off to the store...isn't Appleton in the Mai Tai supposed to be the heavier component that is to be balanced by a sugar cane based rum?  Now I am confused.  When I tried Barbancourt 5 star with Appleton, I thought the Barbancourt got kind of lost, so maybe something darker, like Pusser's, would work with Appleton.



#94 Hassouni

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Posted 26 October 2013 - 01:59 PM

As I understand it, the agricole brings the funk that most Jamaican rums now have dialed back. Appleton brings the age (12 years). This is why I go Appleton + SC, one of the funkiest rums out there.  Pusser's is not a very old rum but it is a pot stilled rum and has a ton of raw funkiness, so I think it'd work quite well.



#95 Kerry Beal

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Posted 26 October 2013 - 02:18 PM

 

 

 

Sadly I am running out of Grand Marnier.  I probably will replenish my Grand Marnier but what would people think about using, say, Cointreau?  I like Grand Marnier but I've never tasted Cointreau.  I've also seen a brandy based version of Cointreau.  Is Cointreau less sweet than Grand Marnier?  Which would be better in a Mai Tai?  And why?


Hmm. This may open a debate, but my understanding is that Grand Marnier is officially a Curaçao while Cointreau is a triple sec. The former is brandy (or other brown spirit)-based, while the latter starts with a more neutral spirit. Difference in taste? GM probably richer, maybe slightly sweeter; Cointreau a little lighter. But I can't see why Cointreau wouldn't work. Give it a try.

Or you could look up Jerry Thomas recipe 188 for English Curacoa (his spelling) a d make your own. It's not a complex recipe.

 

I've decided to play with something resembling Creole Shrub using rum - what do you suppose constitutes 'creole' spices?  Clove, cinnamon, nutmeg, allspice?

 

 

Probably these + vanilla in the Clement product. I think black pepper could do quite nicely but that's probably less traditional. 

 

Screw tradition - we'll go for what tastes good.  And besides I won't be using agricole as the base - I'll use my 'aged' WN over proof.



#96 JoNorvelleWalker

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Posted 26 October 2013 - 05:12 PM

I came home with Pusser's and Cointreau.  Can't wait to see how they stand up in a Mai Tai.  Though admittedly I'm a little scared of Pusser's, having seen a picture of their stills.  I could envision Captain Jack pouring that stuff in his Mai Tai.

 

Not quite pirates of the caribbean, but in world of warcraft a turbocharged flying machine requires a rather expensive tiki hula girl doll for the dashboard.  In WoW rum is used for drinking or for making rocket fuel.  There is aslo a recipe for banana infused rum but I haven't personally tried it.  Drinking banana infused rum turns one into a pirate.

 

Unlike Captain Jack, the real life Henry Morgan, head of the Brethren, had an embedded reporter along to record his plundering.  In the words of Wayne Curtis:  "...Exquemelin's lavish account is considered the best source of information on Captin Morgan and the habits of pirates.  The detail in Exquemelin's book is so rich and so lavish that it grieves me slightly to make one observation.  At no time is rum ever mentioned."



#97 Hassouni

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Posted 26 October 2013 - 09:00 PM

By the way Pusser's doesn't have its own stills. They use rum from Demerara Distillers Ltd (the guys who make El Dorado, and technically every other Demerara rum produced today), specifically the double wooden Port Morant pot still, as well as rums from elsewhere, possibly Trinidad, possibly VI or Jamaica. 

 

I think almost any pure-pot still rum will have the requisite hogo for a good mai tai



#98 JoNorvelleWalker

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Posted 26 October 2013 - 09:22 PM

By itself the Pusser's was quite pleasant on the tongue, but a little harder going down.  My respect and admiration for the British seamen.  By the second half pint I suppose it gets a little easier.  In color I could not see any difference between Pusser's and Appleton.  (What I bought was the ordinary Pusser's, not the 15 year old stuff.)

 

The Cointreau tasted like very high quality orange flavoring.  I suspect that is the whole idea.  I did not try side by side with Grand Marnier but I suspect they are about the same sweetness.  For drinking neat I would certainly prefer Grand Marnier.

 

Since I invoked the shade of Wayne Curtis, I owed it to him to try his proportions for a Mai Tai:

 

1 oz Pusser's

1 oz Appleton 12

3/4 oz Cointreau

3/4 oz fresh lime juice

1/4 oz orgeat

 

 

Curtis specifies Jamaican and Barbados (or Cuban), so at least with Appleton and Pusser's I had those bases covered.  I hope Cointreau is close enough to orange Curacao, but I will say this is my first Mai Tai variant in which I can clearly taste the orange.  (Note Curtis calls for quite a bit.)  And here the lime is not too much.  Vanilla is quite evident.

 

With the drink half finished I snuck in a bit more (I'd say about a quarter teaspoon) Small Hand orgeat.  Shame on me.  There was nothing wrong with Wayne Curtis' recipe to start with but I really like orgeat and this makes the Mai Tai a little smoother, without shouting down the rum.

 

A new rum I saw at the store today was Mount Gay Black Barrel.  Has anyone tried Black Barrel in a Mai Tai?  Or tried Black Barrel for anything?



#99 Hassouni

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Posted 26 October 2013 - 09:32 PM

Apparently Black Barrel ain't all that, but I haven't tried it. Isn't the canonical TV Mai Tai made with a full ounce of lime, btw? 

 

Cointreau compared to Curaçao - Cointreau is sharper and more refined, whereas Curaçao (at least the Senior version) is a bit softer and sweeter, with elements of bitter and sweet orange, from what I can tell.



#100 JoNorvelleWalker

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Posted 26 October 2013 - 10:15 PM

Apparently Black Barrel ain't all that, but I haven't tried it. Isn't the canonical TV Mai Tai made with a full ounce of lime, btw? 

 

Cointreau compared to Curaçao - Cointreau is sharper and more refined, whereas Curaçao (at least the Senior version) is a bit softer and sweeter, with elements of bitter and sweet orange, from what I can tell.

 

Beachbum Berry calls for 1 oz lime.  I recall Trader Vic specified the juice of a lime, so it depends on how big your lime is.  The limes I've been buying run more than one ounce.  I think Wayne Curtis got it about right at 3/4 oz, at least with the rums I'm using.

 

My contribution to the Mai Tai is to cut the straw in half.  Not only does one get twice as many straws, one's nose goes down in the mint,

 

One brand of Curacao (or was it triple sec?) I saw tonight listed "real" artificial flavor.  I think I'll try Pusser's as nail polish remover.


Edited by JoNorvelleWalker, 26 October 2013 - 10:17 PM.


#101 JoNorvelleWalker

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 12:33 AM

By the way Pusser's doesn't have its own stills. They use rum from Demerara Distillers Ltd (the guys who make El Dorado, and technically every other Demerara rum produced today), specifically the double wooden Port Morant pot still, as well as rums from elsewhere, possibly Trinidad, possibly VI or Jamaica. 

 

I think almost any pure-pot still rum will have the requisite hogo for a good mai tai

 

The label says product of Barbados.  Doesn't that mean the rum has to have been distilled in Barbados?  Quite a ways away from Demerara, not that I have anything against Demerara rum.



#102 Adam George

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 12:11 PM

And yet nothing like typical Barbados Rum.


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#103 JoNorvelleWalker

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 12:48 PM

And yet nothing like typical Barbados Rum.

 

What do you think would have been the Barbados rum that Curtis had in mind for his Mai Tai?



#104 Hassouni

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 10:43 PM

the archetypal one is Mount Gay, but anything by Seale's/Foursquare is probably a better buy

 

ETA: I had some Pusser's in a daiquiri and neat last night, because of this discussion and because it had been a while, and man, it might be my single favorite under $20. It's like Smith and Cross but more approachable, the entrypoint into real, no-nonsense rum.


Edited by Hassouni, 27 October 2013 - 10:44 PM.


#105 JoNorvelleWalker

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 11:10 PM

I thought it was said above that Mount Gay was not suitable for a Mai Tai, or was that just the Mount Gay Extra Old I had asked about?

 

My bottle of Pusser's cost more than $20.



#106 Hassouni

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 11:28 PM

I get mine for 17 or so. Barbados rum in general is very subtle, even elegant. They do not have the intensity or fire to cut through an ounce of lime and another ounce of orgeat/curaçao. MG Eclipse and XO, to my taste, are not too far off from each other.



#107 JoNorvelleWalker

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 07:58 PM

Tonight is:

 

1 oz Pusser's

1 oz Appleton 12

3/4 oz Cointreau

1 oz fresh lime juice

3/4 oz orgeat

 

 

Two sprigs of mint and spent half lime.  I had intended to try 1/2 oz orgeat rather than 3/4 but I forgot what I was doing.  Even so, this is good.  No ingredient stands above the others.  And it's particularly nice after standing up four hours making dinner.

 

I can hear Captain Jack wondering:  "Orgeat, why is the orgeat gone??"


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#108 JoNorvelleWalker

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 09:13 PM

I tried:

 

1 oz Pusser's

1 oz Appleton 12

3/4 oz Cointreau

1 oz fresh lime juice

1/2 oz orgeat

 

 

For some reason this batch comes through as bitter.  Perhaps from the lime pulp?  Note I used the other half of the same lime as last night, so pretty sure not a bad lime.  I even tried adding a little more orgeat, which didn't fix the bitterness at all.  Maybe it's because I did not strain the lime juice, which I otherwise always do?  Anyhow, not as good as last night's effort, which was:

 

1 oz Pusser's

1 oz Appleton 12

3/4 oz Cointreau

1 oz fresh lime juice

3/4 oz orgeat

 

 

In fact tonight's Mai Tai is the worst Mai Tai I have made.  I may compare with:

 

1 oz Pusser's

1 oz Appleton 12

3/4 oz Cointreau

3/4 oz fresh lime juice

1/2 oz orgeat

 

 

But this will have to wait till tomorrow.  Or probably should wait till tomorrow.  Maybe.

 

 

 


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#109 JoNorvelleWalker

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 09:58 PM

The things I will do for eGullet and for science.  I staggered out to the kitchen and lurched back with:

 

1 oz Pusser's

1 oz Appleton 12

3/4 oz Cointreau

3/4 oz fresh lime juice

1/2 oz orgeat

 

 

This concoction is much better.  At least it is not bitter.  And yes, I did strain the lime this time.  But I'm not sure it was as good as:

 

1 oz Pusser's

1 oz Appleton 12

3/4 oz Cointreau

1 oz fresh lime juice

3/4 oz orgeat

 

 

Which I really, really liked last night.  However my critical facilities are not 100% at the moment.  No wine for me with dinner!  I'm not that certain about dinner either.

 

Could using the unstrained lime juice really have caused the bitterness in my first Mai Tai tonight?  Or could this all be my imagination?  I also had a little cheese.  Could that have spoiled my taste?



#110 mkayahara

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 05:01 AM

In my experience, bitterness in lime juice is more likely to come from the oil in the skin than from the pulp. What kind of juicer are you using?


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#111 Rafa

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 05:44 AM

It might have something to do with you using a lime that had been cut open the night before. And the cheese is probably a factor; I tend to dislike cheese and cocktail pairings for that reason. (Though fino sherry is great with cheese plates.) 


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#112 Hassouni

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 08:22 AM

What Matt and Rafa said. Also, I can't believe there was THAT much difference, your recipes are pretty close.

 

This was the worst:

 

 


1 oz Pusser's

1 oz Appleton 12

3/4 oz Cointreau

3/4 oz fresh lime juice

1/2 oz orgeat

 

While this was the best?

 

 

1 oz Pusser's

1 oz Appleton 12

3/4 oz Cointreau

1 oz fresh lime juice

3/4 oz orgeat

 

That's only 1/4 oz more lime and orgeat respectively. And I bet your "worst" one still tasted pretty damn good. Try knocking the Cointreau back to 1/2 oz, per the original recipe.



#113 Adam George

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 09:21 AM

Tristan Stephenson is speccing his Mai Tai with Meyers's and Trois Rivieres in his book.

 

Great minds.


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#114 JoNorvelleWalker

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 09:20 PM

That's only 1/4 oz more lime and orgeat respectively. And I bet your "worst" one still tasted pretty damn good. Try knocking the Cointreau back to 1/2 oz, per the original recipe.

 

No, last night's, the worst one, was unfortunately pretty much undrinkable...though I drank it anyway.  It was not any flavor of good.  It was horribly bitter.  Something went very wrong.  Maybe I didn't rinse well enough and got some dish detergent into it, though that is not likely.  More likely it was bitterness from lime pith, since I really reamed the poor lime and didn't strain the juice.  Although tonight I did not have any cheese (nor anything at all to eat) so that may be an issue.

 

Right now I am enjoying:

 

1 oz Pusser's

1 oz Appleton 12

1/2 oz Cointreau

3/4 oz fresh lime juice

1/2 oz orgeat

 

 

This is really good and a little more rum forward.  No problems with bitterness tonight.  Based on my experiments I don't think 1/4 oz of any ingredient, give or take, makes a catastrophic difference.  Though I lean towards a touch more orgeat and Cointreau, myself.

 

My lime juicer is a plastic reamer type thingy that screws onto a glass receiving vessel.  It is from the 1970's or 1980's, and the plastic is doing what old plastic tends to do.  I may be ready for a new juicer.  When I discussed this with my colleagues at work tonight, they were horrified by my choice of juicer.  Though my one coworker who used to be a bartender said in the bar they used only sour mix, no real limes at all.

 

Now that the ice has melted a bit and the drink level has gone down I poured in more Pusser's, Cointreau, and orgeat.  To confirm my theory, the drink is still great even if the proportions are now off.  And so, slightly, am I.



#115 JoNorvelleWalker

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 09:24 PM

Tristan Stephenson is speccing his Mai Tai with Meyers's and Trois Rivieres in his book.

 

Great minds.

 

I put in a request for our library to purchase this.



#116 Hassouni

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 10:05 PM

 

That's only 1/4 oz more lime and orgeat respectively. And I bet your "worst" one still tasted pretty damn good. Try knocking the Cointreau back to 1/2 oz, per the original recipe.

 

No, last night's, the worst one, was unfortunately pretty much undrinkable...though I drank it anyway.  It was not any flavor of good.  It was horribly bitter.  Something went very wrong.  Maybe I didn't rinse well enough and got some dish detergent into it, though that is not likely.  More likely it was bitterness from lime pith, since I really reamed the poor lime and didn't strain the juice.  Although tonight I did not have any cheese (nor anything at all to eat) so that may be an issue.

 

Right now I am enjoying:

 

1 oz Pusser's

1 oz Appleton 12

1/2 oz Cointreau

3/4 oz fresh lime juice

1/2 oz orgeat

 

 

This is really good and a little more rum forward.  No problems with bitterness tonight.  Based on my experiments I don't think 1/4 oz of any ingredient, give or take, makes a catastrophic difference.  Though I lean towards a touch more orgeat and Cointreau, myself.

 

My lime juicer is a plastic reamer type thingy that screws onto a glass receiving vessel.  It is from the 1970's or 1980's, and the plastic is doing what old plastic tends to do.  I may be ready for a new juicer.  When I discussed this with my colleagues at work tonight, they were horrified by my choice of juicer.  Though my one coworker who used to be a bartender said in the bar they used only sour mix, no real limes at all.

 

Now that the ice has melted a bit and the drink level has gone down I poured in more Pusser's, Cointreau, and orgeat.  To confirm my theory, the drink is still great even if the proportions are now off.  And so, slightly, am I.

 

 

I agree that .25 one way or the other makes not a huge difference. Your lime must have been mega screwed up. Get something like this, too: http://www.amazon.co...ulletsociety-20



#117 JoNorvelleWalker

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Posted 01 November 2013 - 07:17 PM

Tonight I've been reading a copy of Beachbum Berry Remixed.  So after studying Berry's version of the Mai Tai canon, I had to try his take on Trader Vic's original proportions, but with the ingedients that I'm using now:

 

1 oz Pusser's

1 oz Appleton 12

1/2 oz Cointreau

1 oz fresh lime juice (which just happend to be all the juice of my last not very juicy lime)

1/4 oz orgeat

1/4 oz syrup

 

 

Did not bother with any garnish beyond a straw.  So sue me.  Very good Mai Tai, but  I do have to pose the question:  why did Vic go with half orgeat and half syrup, rather than all orgeat?  I can only suppose he had only some truly vile commercial orgeat on hand and did not want to use too much to spoil his drink.  I would skip the syrup and up the orgeat and Cointreau.  Just my opinion.

 

I dearly wish feste would pop in and share her current recipe for Mai Tai.  And that way I could thank her for her excellent orgeat.

 

If I had another lime I would make myself another Mai Tai.



#118 Adam George

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Posted 01 November 2013 - 07:40 PM

I use a Monin Orgeat and reckon its fine. I still cut it with Monin Vanilla to temper the almond flavour. I don't want it dominating.


And I can tell by your preferred specs that you have a sweet tooth.

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#119 JoNorvelleWalker

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Posted 01 November 2013 - 08:53 PM

I use a Monin Orgeat and reckon its fine. I still cut it with Monin Vanilla to temper the almond flavour. I don't want it dominating.


And I can tell by your preferred specs that you have a sweet tooth.

 

Actually I don't.  See all my posts in the ice cream thread.  I use trehalose in place of sucrose to cut the sweetness.  What I want are more almond and more orange notes in the Mai Tai, not more sugar.  Hence why I would leave the syrup out.  Small Hand orgeat is not the same as sweetened almond flavoring.



#120 JoNorvelleWalker

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Posted 01 November 2013 - 09:28 PM

Since it is unlikely feste will be reading this thread to make a contribution I went to her website to check her Mai Tai recipe, for which she credits as an adaptation from Trader Vic:

 

1 1/2 oz aged Jamaican rum

1/2 oz Cointreau

1/2 oz orgeat

3/4 oz fresh lime juice

 

 

I feel somewhat vindicated.  Although drinking a Mai Tai without lime juice (as you may pretend that I am doing) is rather disgusting.