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Q&A for Stocks and Sauces Class - Unit 1 Day1


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#91 bleachboy

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Posted 02 January 2005 - 01:15 PM

So today I was gonna make chicken and beef stock. I've been making and using chicken stock for some time now, and I feel like I'm a pro.

However, when I was buying the beef for the beef stock (at an ethnic market, which usually has cheap packages of various bits and pieces good for making stocks) I purchased two packages of moderately meaty beef bones and one package of "costilla de res", which looked meatier but still contained bones.

Babelfish tells me this means "head of cattle rib", which doesn't tell me much. Any folks familiar with Mexican ingredient terms that can tell me if this will be okay to use in a beef stock, or might it be a type of offal that will give it an off flavor?
Don Moore
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#92 Fat Guy

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Posted 02 January 2005 - 02:49 PM

Most often, I've seen costilla de res used to describe short ribs, but I've also seen it used to describe prime rib and spare ribs. In your case, it's probably short ribs. My suggestion would be that you remove the costilla de res from the stockpot after approximately 2.5 hours, let them cool enough so that you can handle them, cut off and refrigerate the best clean chunks of usable meat, and then put all the bones and trimmings back into the stock. Use the meat later on for hash, soup or a sandwich.

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#93 bleachboy

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Posted 02 January 2005 - 03:35 PM

Most often, I've seen costilla de res used to describe short ribs, but I've also seen it used to describe prime rib and spare ribs. In your case, it's probably short ribs. My suggestion would be that you remove the costilla de res from the stockpot after approximately 2.5 hours, let them cool enough so that you can handle them, cut off and refrigerate the best clean chunks of usable meat, and then put all the bones and trimmings back into the stock. Use the meat later on for hash, soup or a sandwich.

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Fantastic! Thanks, Fat Guy. That's exactly what I shall do.
Don Moore
Nashville, TN
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#94 Octaveman

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Posted 24 January 2005 - 11:57 PM

Does anyone see any reason not to use cornish game hens in addition to chicken in making stock? I have these two hens that I've had in the freezer for a long while and just can't seem to cook them up so I thought I might stick them in the stockpot.

Also, I have a bag of fairly hefty chicken wings...would it be a good idea to stick a few of those in with the other stuff I have as well?. BTW, by other stuff, I mean two chicken carcases where only the breast and thighs have been removed and a whole chicken. I need more to fill out the pot so looking for advice on what I'm proposing.

Thanks a lot for your thoughts.

Cheers,
Bob

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#95 Fat Guy

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Posted 25 January 2005 - 04:00 AM

By all means, use them all. This is what the stockpot is for!

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#96 snowangel

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Posted 25 January 2005 - 07:01 AM

Does anyone see any reason not to use cornish game hens in addition to chicken in making stock?  I have these two hens that I've had in the freezer for a long while and just can't seem to cook them up so I thought I might stick them in the stockpot.

Also, I have a bag of fairly hefty chicken wings...would it be a good idea to stick a few of those in with the other stuff I have as well?.  BTW, by other stuff, I mean two chicken carcases where only the breast and thighs have been removed and a whole chicken.  I need more to fill out the pot so looking for advice on what I'm proposing.

Thanks a lot for your thoughts.

Cheers,
Bob

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Thighs and legs are often really cheap here, and I add those as well. Then, you have meat, too! Sometimes I end of with more meat than I can use at that time, and have frozen the cooked chicken meat. It doesn't usually freeze well, but if you add some of the chicken fat, it keeps very well.
Susan Fahning aka "snowangel"

#97 Octaveman

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Posted 25 January 2005 - 11:34 AM

Cool...thanks Fat Guy. It's going to be a rootin' tootin' chickin'(stock) makin' weekend.

While I'm here I had another question if I may. Once the stock is made and the reduction begins, at what point do you stop reducing? Fat Guy said in this Q&A to stop once you've reached the desired strength. What does that mean? Reduce to what you want the stock to taste like then it gets added without reconsitution to the sauce/dish? I thought the purpose of reducing was to save on space and when it's needed, add water and you're good to go. I guess I'm confused about whether or not to reconstitute my stock. I know volume is an issue but where is the fine line between a richly flavored sauce and volume from add'l water? In practice, the two times I've made stock since going through this course, I've added very little water to my 4:1 (approx) reduction. Does that mean my stock wasn't rich enough? On a side note, I'm going to try less mirepoix this time. I think my stock was a bit to sweet. I still have some left from the last batch so I'll be able to make a direct comparison of the effects (or affects) of this modification.

BTW, thanks Fat Guy for the great lesson. I'm starting to get really comfortable with this whole stock making thing. I find myself making stock just to get more practice not necessarily because I need more stock.

Cheers,
Bob

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#98 CaliPoutine

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Posted 25 January 2005 - 11:49 AM

What are you thoughts on leaving the onion skins on? Does it contribute to a more golden stock or does it leave a bitter taste?

#99 bleachboy

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Posted 25 January 2005 - 01:52 PM

Once the stock is made and the reduction begins, at what point do you stop reducing?  Fat Guy said in this Q&A to stop once you've reached the desired strength.  What does that mean?  Reduce to what you want the stock to taste like then it gets added without reconsitution to the sauce/dish?  I thought the purpose of reducing was to save on space and when it's needed, add water and you're good to go.


I think you've been doing right so far. For me, anyway, yes -- the reduction of stock just means I don't have 16 quarts of liquid in my tiny freezer. But on your other point, I <i>do</i> reconstitute it with water if making a soup, for example. But if making a sauce, I usually just wait until things are mostly reduced, then toss a couple cubes in the pan. Savory cooking is really flexible, so I'd say just go with your gut -- stuff is bound to turn out good!
Don Moore
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#100 bleachboy

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Posted 25 January 2005 - 01:53 PM

What are you thoughts on leaving the onion skins on?  Does it contribute to a more golden stock or does it leave a bitter taste?


I leave my onion skins on. It does make for a beautifully hued stock, and I have never noticed even a slight edge of bitterness.
Don Moore
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#101 tim

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Posted 27 January 2005 - 10:50 AM

Thank you, Healthy Guy,

I would appreciate your thoughts on a number of points.

Thomas Keller says that celery turns stock bitter. Your thoughts?

The only time I "wash" bones is when I prepare white beef or veal stock. I usually roast my bones and do not wash them in advance. Your thoughts?

You recommend bringing stock to a simmer on high heat. I was taught that this caused albumin to spread into the water and you should raise the heat very slowly. What do you think?

I never tie bouquet into a bundle. It is easier to add six inches of untied string to the stockpot, if that is a desired flavor. Call me crazy, but what do you think?

Thanks again,

Tim

#102 chefzadi

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Posted 28 January 2005 - 08:59 AM

If you think celery tastes bitter than it gives stocks a bitter taste. Celery is really for chicken stock and not the other stocks.

I roast my bones too and do not wash them for brown veal stock. I can't imagine that washing bones gives a better quality product. I would be hard pressed to say it would even make a difference. If you know how to skim and strain your stocks there should be no difference. (please note the last line in this paragraph).

Bring stocks to a simmer slowly, not on a high heat. It's easier to skim off the impurities and you will get a much cleaner looking and tasting finished product. High heat is likely to create a cloudy product.

If you have a string tie your bouquet, if you don't have a string don't tie it.
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#103 rbenash

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 06:54 AM

A bump, I know this is a long dead thread. One question I have is regarding beef stock. If I am roasting bones first - you know when you pull from the oven you will have a good bit of fat. Pour it off? Or should I assume the fat at this point goes into the simmer? I typically roast the bones for an hour, then pull and paste if I want a brown stock then back in the oven for 30 minutes to roast the veggies along with the bones a bit then into the pot. Thinking about whether there's any value to dump the fat in (reserved during second roast with veggies and paste). Or if I can just discard. Just wondering if there's falvor in the fat that adds any value during the simmer?

#104 tim

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 11:48 AM

HI,

Dump the fat. The flavor is not worth the probability of clouding your stock.

Don't forget about a second run with fresh water for your bones. It only takes 5 minutes to remove the finished first run stock and refill your stockpot.

Tim

#105 rbenash

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 11:54 AM

Done - thanks.