925 replies to this topic

[EvergreenDan]

Ok, 27 pages in... which are the top few bitters you consider important for your bar?

Bittermens Hopped Grapefruit (my favorite citrus bump)
Bittermens Mole
Fee Whiskey Barrel Aged (use where you might use Angostura)
Angostura Orange
Peychaud's
Some sort of lemon or lime bitters for making seltzer and bumping up the citrus without changing the acid/sweetness
Boker's to add bitterness

And you, haresfur?

Edited by EvergreenDan, 20 August 2011 - 11:33 AM.

[haresfur]

And you, haresfur?

That's the thing. My supply of bitters is pitiful, but I'm planning a resupply trip to the USA. Right now I have Peychaud's, Fee's Old Fashioned, Fee's Orange, and Regan's Orange. I probably use the Fee's Orange the least although I like them in some summer drinks and the 50:50 mix with Regan's is often nice. I use the Fee's Old Fashioned where Angostrua is called for, but would like to try the barrel aged.

Given the number of interesting bottles out there, I think I'll concentrate on the ones people use most, thus the question.

[evo-lution]

Not sure how many of the eGullet members have subscribed to the digital editions of CLASS Magazine from the UK but their latest issue (#20) reviewed my new Aphrodite Bitters giving them a rating of 4.5 / 5

http://www.diffordsguide.com/class-magazine/read-online?page=1%3Brelease%3D2011-09-13

[Chris Amirault]

That's too low. We have a bottle at Cook & Brown and they are an unqualified triumph, on par with Regan's #6 Orange, Scrappy's Grapefruit, Bittermens Xocolatl Mole, and the Bitter Truth Jerry Thomas Decanter bitters as the best of a over-crowded and -hyped field.

It's the sort of product that gets you dreaming about ways to use it. All bitters fans should grab a bottle now.

[evo-lution]

Thanks for the kind words though I wouldn't agree with the overcrowded comment, wasn't too long ago we were bemoaning the fact we only had Ango Aromatic. We now have a vibrant market with some truly outstanding bottlings. So long as a bottling is well thought-out with a number of applications (I've half-written a piece covering my own portfolio that covers this in further depth) then it's worthy of exploring as with any category.

It's the sort of product that gets you dreaming about ways to use it.

Slight twist on the Baguio Skin is a very good start;

As per the receipt of Charles H. Baker but with the addition of Aphrodite Bitters;

50ml Havana Club 7 Year Old (or equivalent)
3 Dashes Aphrodite Bitters
1 Dash Regan's Orange Bitters #6
1 White sugar cube
2 Thinly sliced wheels of lime

Method: Add sugar cube to glass and add a little water, lightly muddle and stir until dissolved. Place two wheels of lime on base of glass then add a few cubes of ice. Add rum and bitters then stir for a few seconds
Glass: Rocks
Garnish: Fresh grated nutmeg
Ice: Cubed

[evo-lution]

While I'm on I should mention that my bitters webpage was recently updated and is worth exploring. I'll be devoting some time to the recipes section in the coming days and have some more info to add, should anyone have a recipe they'd like to share on the page please let me know.

Edited by evo-lution, 14 September 2011 - 05:28 PM.

[Chris Amirault]

Thanks for the kind words though I wouldn't agree with the overcrowded comment, wasn't too long ago we were bemoaning the fact we only had Ango Aromatic. We now have a vibrant market with some truly outstanding bottlings. So long as a bottling is well thought-out with a number of applications (I've half-written a piece covering my own portfolio that covers this in further depth) then it's worthy of exploring as with any category.

Agreed. I'm just crabby about a line that has somehow made its way onto our backbar and it... uh... hrm....

[evo-lution]

Agreed. I'm just crabby about a line that has somehow made its way onto our backbar and it... uh... hrm....

Intrigued. I would agree that there are maybe a few too many coming onto market (specifically in the US) with huge ranges that seem to be perfected after little-to-no research/development and very little info available regarding their production other than brand name and flavour.

[haresfur]

Ok, 27 pages in... which are the top few bitters you consider important for your bar?

Bittermens Hopped Grapefruit (my favorite citrus bump)
Bittermens Mole
Fee Whiskey Barrel Aged (use where you might use Angostura)
Angostura Orange
Peychaud's
Some sort of lemon or lime bitters for making seltzer and bumping up the citrus without changing the acid/sweetness
Boker's to add bitterness

And you, haresfur?

I just bought some Fee Whiskey Barrel Aged, Bitterman's Xocolatl Mole, and a trial pack of Scrappy's Orange, Chocolate, Grapefruit, and Cardamom bitters. Would have bought some others except for the cost. Making progress, anyway.

[Ritty]

Does anyone know when orange bitters were largely dropped from the martini? I'm trying to do a timeline of this iconic cocktail and haven't nailed it down.

[Tsiologist]

I finally got around to buying some Everclear so I can make some Campfire bitters I've been planning on for a long time.
Lapsang Souchong smoked black tea bitters.
I'm taking these slowly and building on the profile as I go along.
So far just a strong tincture of lapsang. The bittering agents so far will be quassia, gentian, and calamus. Spices to be added are yet to be decided, likely just a whisper of clove. After that, I highly suspect an oz or two of mezcal will get dashed in just to vamp up the complexity of smokey quality in the mix.
I'm curious about actually taking the smoking gun to the batch in the end, but I have no idea how effective that might be in an ingredient used by the dash. To say nothing of whether or not the smoke grows overpowering or even goes bad over time...

More details to come, here:
http://tsiologist.tu...ire-bitters-tea

[CalumC]

Great to have just found this thread, I've just started making and enjoying bitters. First experiment was Earl Grey bitters, started out just as loose earl grey in vodka, infused for 3 weeks. Obviously this is quite a pure flavour, I might mix in a little quassia bark infusion (quassia I managed to get 250g for £3 on eBay, bargain), and maybe some orange peel to bolster the bergamot/citrus element of the earl grey.

Next experiment is going to be a more traditional aromatic bitters as a replacement for Angostura, might play up more on the fragrant/floral aromas.

Looking forward to getting more inspiration from this thread.

[Tsiologist]

Hey, very cool!
I made some bergamot bitters a while back and they turned out quite nicely.
I was only whipping up a tiny test batch, and not really steeping anything.
Happened to have some oil of bergamot on hand, so I put that in some gin, let it sit overnight and ran it through a paper filter to catch the oils. I added some earl grey tea for color and extra bergamot flavor, and rather than spending weeks steeping quassia or gentian, I just dashed in a bunch of pre-made bitter tincture.
Then, I wanted to give it a little extra complexity and dual flavors, so I rummaged through my fridge to see what weird stuff I had on hand: strawberry shrub.
Reduced that, added it to the earl grey.
Voila, Strawberry/Bergamot Bitters.

[evo-lution]

Some of you will have heard of, or seen, Dr. Heather Duncan's Christmas Bitters on my webpage, I know this because a fair few of you have been in touch about them. Other than the first few bottlings that were made in 2009 they've not been available, that was until The Elves returned this month to make a small batch. Yes you did read that right, Elves.

Well, we all like to know the story behind the creation of our favourite bottlings right? And we all like cocktails. And music. And bitters of course. Why not take a few minutes to have a read (and a listen) of the story of Dr. Heather Duncan's Christmas Bitters.

http://thejerrythomasproject.blogspot.com/2011/11/christmas-bitters-by-heather-duncan-and.html

Edited by evo-lution, 12 November 2011 - 08:15 PM.

[CalumC]

Hey, very cool!
I made some bergamot bitters a while back and they turned out quite nicely.
I was only whipping up a tiny test batch, and not really steeping anything.
Happened to have some oil of bergamot on hand, so I put that in some gin, let it sit overnight and ran it through a paper filter to catch the oils. I added some earl grey tea for color and extra bergamot flavor, and rather than spending weeks steeping quassia or gentian, I just dashed in a bunch of pre-made bitter tincture.
Then, I wanted to give it a little extra complexity and dual flavors, so I rummaged through my fridge to see what weird stuff I had on hand: strawberry shrub.
Reduced that, added it to the earl grey.
Voila, Strawberry/Bergamot Bitters.

I'm trying to hunt down some fresh bergamot fruit, not quite sure where to look though! With the earl grey, I hoped that the bitterness of the tea itself would be enough, and it was. With the trad bitters I'm trying next, I'll use some of the earl grey as an element of the bitter extracts (the other probably being quassia), as it should partner nicely with the citrus peels I'll be using.

[axwaldman]

hello, my name is alex waldman.
i'm a bartender (craft cocktails) in istanbul.
out of both curiosity and necessity i've been making my own bitters for a while now.

i've got a question about Regans' Orange #5, and by proxy all bitters containing fruits, i suppose.

i'm sure you're all familiar with the recipe.
in the final stage of the recipe- after the macerated alcohol has been combined with the macerated water- there is a separation stage where a large layer floats to the top and is subsequently skimmed off before final fine filtering, diluting, and bottling.

my questions are these:
1) is the stuff i'm skimming off pectin from the fruit peels?
2) does pectin (or whatever the jelly is) bind more readily to water or alcohol- and thereby is the liquid in the jelly mostly alcohol or water?
3) wouldn't this jelly be useful for something?

thanks,
alex

[thirtyoneknots]

Alex, since you're only taking off the barest outside oily layer of the peel, there is not an appreciable amount of pectin present in citrus bitters. At least not that I have ever noticed.

Strawberries, on the other hand, will precipitate a nice big glob of pectin in any liquor they are infused in, if left long enough.

[axwaldman]

thirtyoneknots--

the dried orange and lemon peels that i'm using have a good portion of the pith as well as the outside oily layer.
i should've shot a picture to explain more thoroughly, but in the final separation stage of my orange bitters (lemon too) the water and alcohol are combined (totalling maybe 800ml), left to sit undisturbed after 2 days the top 350ml is a gelatinuous mush that according to the recipe is to be skimmed off and discarded. after the layers have separated i stick the jars in the fridge overnight to set the jelly even more for easy separation.
so the question remains, if this gelatinous material is not pectin then what is it?

[Kerry Beal]

thirtyoneknots--

the dried orange and lemon peels that i'm using have a good portion of the pith as well as the outside oily layer.
i should've shot a picture to explain more thoroughly, but in the final separation stage of my orange bitters (lemon too) the water and alcohol are combined (totalling maybe 800ml), left to sit undisturbed after 2 days the top 350ml is a gelatinuous mush that according to the recipe is to be skimmed off and discarded. after the layers have separated i stick the jars in the fridge overnight to set the jelly even more for easy separation.
so the question remains, if this gelatinous material is not pectin then what is it?

Pectin is concentrated in the pith - so I think it certainly is pectin you are seeing.

[Tsiologist]

Alex,
I had the same problem with my first batch of Regans' #5.
I used Gary's process for orange bitters and root beer bitters, and the same process which is essentially replicated for every recipe in the new "Bitters" book: steep solids in alcohol 2 weeks, simmer and steep same solids in water 1 week, combine the tincture and the infusion, sweeten.

There is definitely a difference in how the solids break down in water as opposed to the alcoholic tincture. The orange peels (and the sassafras to a lesser extent)turned into a gelatinous mush which I never should have combined with my lovely tincture. It wasn't a matter of skimming precipitate off the top and bottom; the bitters were a mess throughout. I threw the bottle of orange bitters out, as it was so incredibly goopy and disgusting, no amount of cheese cloth could have salvaged them. It was too thick to go through any strainer (mesh, Brita, coffee filter) but too homogeneous to put through cloth (all the goop and solids went right through.) The root beer bitters were salvageable, if slightly murky.)

I've had far more success with bitters since that failed batch of Orange. But I am wary of following this procedure for the recipes in the "Bitters" book until someone can help me figure out what went wrong. I simply plan to monitor the water infusion and strain it obsessively before ever adding it to the tincture.

With any luck my Campfire Bitters will not suffer...

Best of luck!

[evo-lution]

I intend to pop back in and write some more on what is happening when I have a little more time but, long story short, there is no need to macerate the botanicals separately in water which is essentially creating the problem. I see this (and the botanical/boiling water technique) recommended in various recipes and it isn't worthwhile.

[slkinsey]

Yes. I don't quite understand this step. Unless you are using absolute alcohol for the infusion step, then you are already macerating the botanicals in water.

[evo-lution]

Yes. I don't quite understand this step. Unless you are using absolute alcohol for the infusion step, then you are already macerating the botanicals in water.

Water will be added to dilute to bottling strength after the original maceration in (high-proof) alcohol.

[slkinsey]

Yes. I don't quite understand this step. Unless you are using absolute alcohol for the infusion step, then you are already macerating the botanicals in water.

Water will be added to dilute to bottling strength after the original maceration in (high-proof) alcohol.

The point I was making is that one could theoretically have a "macerate in water" step if the idea was that the original step would extract alcohol-soluble compounds and the water step would extract water-soluble compounds. But, unless the original alcohol infusion was in absolute alcohol (i.e., 100% ethanol) then the botanicals were already being infused into water. This, then, would render an additional water-only infusion superfluous. I presume this is the theory behind this practice?

[evo-lution]

The point I was making is that one could theoretically have a "macerate in water" step if the idea was that the original step would extract alcohol-soluble compounds and the water step would extract water-soluble compounds. But, unless the original alcohol infusion was in absolute alcohol (i.e., 100% ethanol) then the botanicals were already being infused into water. This, then, would render an additional water-only infusion superfluous. I presume this is the theory behind this practice?

Who is going to have 100% ethanol?!?

If you're macerating in, let's say, 75%abv spirit you'll more than likely want to dilute with water to a lower bottling strength for a number of reasons, namely the flavour difference between aromatic compounds at differing strengths. For the bitters I produce there is a dilution step however it doesn't involve separate water macerations or the boiling water stage which is unnecessary and serves no purpose.

[slkinsey]

The point I was making is that one could theoretically have a "macerate in water" step if the idea was that the original step would extract alcohol-soluble compounds and the water step would extract water-soluble compounds. But, unless the original alcohol infusion was in absolute alcohol (i.e., 100% ethanol) then the botanicals were already being infused into water. This, then, would render an additional water-only infusion superfluous. I presume this is the theory behind this practice?

Who is going to have 100% ethanol?!?

That's exactly my point! Since you're using, let's say, 75% ethanol, you're already infusing into 25% water. This means that there isn't any point in doing a separate infusion into water -- which is what a bunch of these recipes say to do -- because you've already infused into water. That's all I'm commenting on, and we're saying the same thing: that it's not necessary. I'm simply pointing out that the spices, etc. have already been infused into water by virtue of the fact that there is water in the alcohol used to do the initial infusion.

[evo-lution]

That's exactly my point! Since you're using, let's say, 75% ethanol, you're already infusing into 25% water. This means that there isn't any point in doing a separate infusion into water -- which is what a bunch of these recipes say to do -- because you've already infused into water. That's all I'm commenting on, and we're saying the same thing: that it's not necessary. I'm simply pointing out that the spices, etc. have already been infused into water by virtue of the fact that there is water in the alcohol used to do the initial infusion.

I get what you're saying but that's working on the presumption you're bottling at around 75%abv...

[slkinsey]

Why is that? Yes, sure you're likely to reduce the proof for bottling by adding water. But that seems entirely separate from the question of whether it makes any sense at all to infuse the spices into 100% water separately from infusing them into 75% alcohol (which, of course, is 25% water) in order to get some kind of qualitatively different "water infusion" that is added to the flavor profile.

[EvergreenDan]

If you're macerating in, let's say, 75%abv spirit you'll more than likely want to dilute with water to a lower bottling strength for a number of reasons, namely the flavour difference between aromatic compounds at differing strengths.

This confuses me. Are you saying that diluting with water as a final step would change the flavor in the cocktail (other than increase the amount needed)? The contribution of the alcohol in the bitters would not materially change the water/alcohol ratio of the final drink. It would seem that the any difference would disappear once a dash or two goes into the glass.

Now back to the misunderstanding already in progress.

[evo-lution]

Why is that? Yes, sure you're likely to reduce the proof for bottling by adding water. But that seems entirely separate from the question of whether it makes any sense at all to infuse the spices into 100% water separately from infusing them into 75% alcohol (which, of course, is 25% water) in order to get some kind of qualitatively different "water infusion" that is added to the flavor profile.

This forum can be odd sometimes. Forget the 75% / 25% thing, to dilute to bottling strength (whatever that may be) you're going to be adding additional water which has no flavour.

So, one of the reasons for the separate water infusion (as I understand it) is so you are adding a flavourful water to the infused spirit, thus not diluting the flavour by so much. In essence you have infused spirit and infused water but it's an unnecessary step as I've mentioned previously, doubly so with the boiling water step added

This confuses me. Are you saying that diluting with water as a final step would change the flavor in the cocktail (other than increase the amount needed)? The contribution of the alcohol in the bitters would not materially change the water/alcohol ratio of the final drink. It would seem that the any difference would disappear once a dash or two goes into the glass.

I'm sure you're aware that the flavour of any spirit changes considerably dependent on the abv, and this does have an impact on the drink. In the development of any bottling the abv is a major consideration for this reason..

Edited by evo-lution, 22 December 2011 - 04:24 PM.