Jump to content


Welcome to the eG Forums!

These forums are a service of the Society for Culinary Arts & Letters, a 501c3 nonprofit organization dedicated to advancement of the culinary arts. Anyone can read the forums, however if you would like to participate in active discussions please join the society.

Photo

Cobblers


  • Please log in to reply
39 replies to this topic

#31 jackal10

jackal10
  • participating member
  • 5,036 posts

Posted 28 July 2003 - 07:32 AM

Eggs are good, and should be used, However
I think the current definition of Clafoutis extends from the baked custardy sort to the ones with a crisper batter, more like a fruit version of toad-in-the-hole, with fruit instead of sausages.

#32 browniebaker

browniebaker
  • participating member
  • 713 posts
  • Location:Chevy Chase, MD

Posted 28 July 2003 - 07:46 AM

Eggs are good, and should be used, However
I think the current definition of Clafoutis extends from the baked custardy sort to the ones with a crisper batter, more like a fruit version of toad-in-the-hole, with fruit instead of sausages.

Like clafoutis, toad-in-the-hole is made with an eggy batter, essentially the same batter as used for Yorkshire pudding. If you ask on what authority I base this assertion, I'll have to admit I lived in Oxford, England, for a while, am a great lover of English foods, and sometimes cook toad-in-the-hole as comfort food.

#33 gknl

gknl
  • legacy participant
  • 520 posts

Posted 29 July 2003 - 12:26 AM

Not to worry. It's NOT a clafoutis, which requires egg in the batter.

What is your authority for that?

The original Limousin dish may have been cherries in a flan custard (with or without a pastry base), but modern usage (e.g. Larousse 1984) defines it as "[fruit] arranged in a buttered dish and covered with a fairly thick pancake batter". No mention of eggs, and I submit fairly close to

It's a milky (no egg) batter that is poured into a pyrex dish in which you have melted butter hot (kinda like Yorkshire Pudding).  It is topped with peach slices


Larousse goes on to say
" The Academie Francaise, who had defined clafoutis as a "sort of fruit flan" were faced with protests from the inhabitants of Limoges and changed their definition to "cake with black cherries". Never the less there are numerous variations using cherries or other fruits. The word comes from the provincial dialect word clafir (to fill)"

Yorkshire puddings always have egg in the batter - that is what gives the rise. Maybe the pudding described would be even better with an eggy batter...

Do you have a pancake recipe that doesn't call for eggs?

And anyway, in the clafoutis, the batter is poured over the fruit, in the Central Texas Cobbler, the fruit is placed over the batter. So it's the complete opposite. hehehe

#34 jackal10

jackal10
  • participating member
  • 5,036 posts

Posted 29 July 2003 - 01:05 AM

Do you have a pancake recipe that doesn't call for eggs?

And anyway, in the clafoutis, the batter is poured over the fruit, in the Central Texas Cobbler, the fruit is placed over the batter.  So it's the complete opposite.  hehehe

But the fruit sinks...

There are many pancake and batter recipes that do not need eggs:
Very low fat pancakes

or indian jalebi (sweet pancake spirals)

or tempura batter (flour + fizzy water)

or yeast-raised pancakes

or chinese pancakes and wrappers

or tortillas...

#35 browniebaker

browniebaker
  • participating member
  • 713 posts
  • Location:Chevy Chase, MD

Posted 29 July 2003 - 06:44 AM

Do you have a pancake recipe that doesn't call for eggs?

And anyway, in the clafoutis, the batter is poured over the fruit, in the Central Texas Cobbler, the fruit is placed over the batter.  So it's the complete opposite.  hehehe

But the fruit sinks...

There are many pancake and batter recipes that do not need eggs:
Very low fat pancakes

or indian jalebi (sweet pancake spirals)

or tempura batter (flour + fizzy water)

or yeast-raised pancakes

or chinese pancakes and wrappers

or tortillas...

These so-called pancakes without eggs -- now you're really reaching! :wacko:

I doubt that the Larousse definition of "clafoutis" that you originally cited uses the term "pancake" in a sense that includes all these eggless batters and wrappers that you now cite.

Why not stop trying so hard to limit the definition of cobbler? Let's not begrudge people of various regions in the U.S. the privilege (perhaps the right?) of calling their concoctions "cobblers." Face it: there ARE regional variations of the American cobbler. Could we, in an expansive spirit, show some tolerance for, even celebrate, our regional differences?

#36 gknl

gknl
  • legacy participant
  • 520 posts

Posted 29 July 2003 - 02:36 PM

Do you have a pancake recipe that doesn't call for eggs?

And anyway, in the clafoutis, the batter is poured over the fruit, in the Central Texas Cobbler, the fruit is placed over the batter.  So it's the complete opposite.  hehehe

But the fruit sinks...

There are many pancake and batter recipes that do not need eggs:
Very low fat pancakes

or indian jalebi (sweet pancake spirals)

or tempura batter (flour + fizzy water)

or yeast-raised pancakes

or chinese pancakes and wrappers

or tortillas...

These so-called pancakes without eggs -- now you're really reaching! :wacko:

I doubt that the Larousse definition of "clafoutis" that you originally cited uses the term "pancake" in a sense that includes all these eggless batters and wrappers that you now cite.

Why not stop trying so hard to limit the definition of cobbler? Let's not begrudge people of various regions in the U.S. the privilege (perhaps the right?) of calling their concoctions "cobblers." Face it: there ARE regional variations of the American cobbler. Could we, in an expansive spirit, show some tolerance for, even celebrate, our regional differences?

Is it proper use of the word "irony" to note that an expanded definition of "pancake" is being used to restrict the definition of "cobbler?"

:rolleyes:

#37 Suvir Saran

Suvir Saran
  • legacy participant
  • 4,877 posts

Posted 30 July 2003 - 01:45 PM

indian jalebi (sweet pancake spirals)

Pancake???? Jalebis? Very interesting. :blink:

#38 gknl

gknl
  • legacy participant
  • 520 posts

Posted 20 August 2003 - 11:12 PM

Interesting article in today's paper. I'm glad someone was paying attention. Nice work!

http://www.bayarea.c...ood/6574823.htm

Posted on Wed, Aug. 20, 2003
Fruit cobblers a cakewalk to prepare
By Kathleen Purvis
KNIGHT RIDDER NEWSPAPERS

Posted on Wed, Aug. 20, 2003
Fruit cobblers a cakewalk to prepare
By Kathleen Purvis
KNIGHT RIDDER NEWSPAPERS

Take fruit, usually peaches, cook it in a syrup, cover it with a top crust and bake it. That's a cobbler.
Or you can take fruit, usually peaches or blackberries, toss it with a little flour, sugar and butter, top it with soft biscuits, and bake it. That's a cobbler, too.
Or you can cover any fruit, from peaches to blackberries to cherries, rhubarb or apples, with a thin batter and bake until the topping is puffy. Yep, that's a cobbler, too.
Sometimes the fruit is put on the batter, which rises to cover it. Sometimes the batter is put on the fruit and flows down to enrobe it. Sometimes there's a bottom crust. Sometimes there's a biscuit dough covering the whole thing.
So just what in the heck is a cobbler?

[material omitted]

And as far as defining a cobbler, what's a food writer to do?
Only this: Admit that a cobbler is whatever you think it is, which is probably whatever your mother or your grandmother told you it was. And when summer fruit is at its height, when every corner of every country highway has a stand filled with peaches and blackberries, a cobbler is a mighty fine thing to consider.

#39 IrishCream

IrishCream
  • participating member
  • 764 posts

Posted 21 August 2003 - 02:42 AM

Wow! I am amazed by how closely that article parallels this thread! I can't help but think the author read this thread. Could Kathleen Purvis be eGullet's kpurvis???? :wink:
Lobster.

#40 Varmint

Varmint
  • eGullet Society staff emeritus
  • 5,136 posts
  • Location:Raleigh, North Carolina

Posted 21 August 2003 - 05:08 AM

First, that Kathleen Purvis is indeed our kpurvis, Food Editor of the Charlotte Observer. I can't speak for Kathi, but I do know that she meticulously researches her articles, so this could have been something in the works for some time. Moreover, cobbler articles are standard fodder for summer food writing.

Could she have gained some information from this thread? She's a smart lady, so she probably did!!!
Dean McCord
VarmintBites