122 replies to this topic

[dimsumfan]

Anyway, consider Veracruz.  Pick up a guidebook and see if it works for you.  PM me if you have any questions.

Caarina

This is fabulous information, and I really appreciate it. I did a little research on Veracruz last weekend, and looked into going, but there weren't any frequent flyer seats available to Veracruz for our timeframe. So I'm tentatively holding tickets for Michoacan.

I guess I could fly into Mexico City and drive to Veracruz as an option, since I'd want a car anyway, but that's a bit of a distance, right? I'll have to research a bit more.

[Caarina]

I guess I could fly into Mexico City and drive to Veracruz as an option, since I'd want a car anyway, but that's a bit of a distance, right? I'll have to research a bit more.

I would not recommend renting a car in Mexico City, except if a local is driving. I personally don't drive in that area due to the corrupt cops, poorly marked streets and the insane traffic jams. I have friends in Mexico City who do drive and I ride with them or take radio cabs. (NEVER hire a cab on the street)

Another option is to take a "taxi de sitio" from the airport in Mexico City to the TAPO bus station. 1st Class buses go frequently to Veracruz and Xalapa. Check out www.ticketbus.com.mx for timetables and other information. I did this when I went to Xalapa and it took approx 4 hours.

Flying is preferrable if you can swing it.

Also Michoacan is a very good travel destination with excellent food, culture and architecture. If you can't do Veracruz, you will still have a wonderful vacation ahead of you.

Edited by Caarina, 09 November 2006 - 09:04 AM.

[markemorse]

Relaxing at the Zocalo seems very unlikely if the unrest there persists.

Um...yes.

Serious bummer about the timing...hope it works out.

mark

[salomonrobyn]

Driving from Mexico City to Xalapa takes 3.5 hrs (300km), while DF to Veracruz is 4hrs (400km). Puebla is on the way (125km from Mexico City) and it is very much worth spending a day there enjoying the sights and superb food. Note that the Mexico City airport is in the East end of the city, so one doesn't have to cross the whole city to take the highway to Puebla. With a car you can also stop in Cacaxtla (near Puebla) and see the fascinating prehispanic murals.
If you don't want to drive, you can take the bus to Puebla right from the airport (at least one departure per hour) and in Puebla you can rent a car.
If you want to avoid Puebla, you can go anywhere in Veracruz State from the TAPO bus terminal (a few minutes from the airport). Or you can fly to Veracruz with Mexicana for about US$200 return.

Anyway, consider Veracruz.  Pick up a guidebook and see if it works for you.  PM me if you have any questions.

Caarina

This is fabulous information, and I really appreciate it. I did a little research on Veracruz last weekend, and looked into going, but there weren't any frequent flyer seats available to Veracruz for our timeframe. So I'm tentatively holding tickets for Michoacan.

I guess I could fly into Mexico City and drive to Veracruz as an option, since I'd want a car anyway, but that's a bit of a distance, right? I'll have to research a bit more.

[Sam Salmon]

Quite agree about Veracruz state-I've dined very well there indeed especially outside the city.

http://www.johntoddjr.com/ blog by a long time American resident of Veracruz

[Caarina]

Quite agree about Veracruz state-I've dined very well there indeed especially outside the city.

http://www.johntoddjr.com/  blog by a long time American resident of Veracruz

Sam-- Great link! This website has a ton of information on Veracruz...

Makes me think...instead of that great trip to the DF and Puebla that I am planning... I could be convinced to go to Veracruz instead...

[Jay Francis]

As others have noted, a Puebla - Veracruz vacation would be a lot of fun. Just ot put in my two cents, the recommendations made above are right on.

And you'll find very good inexpensive eateries at El Acuario food courts in Veracruz.

The water at Veracruz is not as spectacular as farther down toward the Yucatan, but, you could do the following itinerary.
Fly into Mexico City and take the bus directly from the airport to Puebla. Several gastronomic days in Puebla, then on to Xalapa for several days with side trips to Coatepec and Xico, then either north to see the ruins of El Tajin or straight down to Veracruz. Then back to Mexico City via Cordoba and Orizaba.

I would recommend grabbing the Frommer's Guide to Mexico and using it as your trip planner. We had excellent luck with the hotel recommendations. The only downside was, at the time we went there, Papantla, home of the vanilla industry and near to El Tajin, had a dreadful selection of hotels and eateries. I have travelled in Mexico for over 30 years and it was in Papantla that I was concerned about food preparation and sanitation.

I remember that when we were last in Xalapa, we stayed at El Cafetal. We had a day trip to Naolinco and discovered a family there that made a terrific mole negro, and we brought back several kilos.

We dined very well in Xico and hiked to the coffee area where Predator, Rambo and several other movies have been filmed.

We saw a spectacular archeological museum in Xalapa and toured the ex-hacienda of General Santa Ana.

Edited by Jay Francis, 10 November 2006 - 08:14 PM.

[dimsumfan]

Inspired by all your helpful replies (many thanks!), I'm close to canceling Oaxaca with the comfort of knowing that we can still have a great food/other activity trip to Veracruz (still assessing Michoacan, but now Veracruz is winning!). Luckily, I HAVE been able to find frequent flyer tickets to Veracruz - and possibly Puebla as well. A few questions:

1. Do you recommend trying to go to Puebla as part of the same trip? We'll have eight full days on the ground (excluding the two travel days), and I'm wondering if that will feel too rushed if we want to explore all that's in Veracruz (inc. Xalapa) in an unrushed way. Maybe I'm already answering my own question?!?

2. I've heard mixed things about Papantla (including one response in this thread), but we'd probably want to check it out - and also go to El Tajin anyway. Do you recommend staying overnight in Papantla? Or should we make it a daytrip from Xalapa? Or from Veracruz?

3. Lastly, any thoughts about doing all of this by public transportation (bus)? If you highly recommend a car for any segments, which would they be? Safe to have a car in this area?

Oh - and would still welcome any other great foodie destinations in this whole Puebla/Veracruz region.

I appreciate all the help!

[salomonrobyn]

If you are flying to Veracruz, then it is better to explore places within Veracruz State, and leave the visit to Puebla for another trip. Puebla is easy to get to from Mexico City.

It is not easy to visit El Tajin as a day trip from Veracruz or Xalapa. By car it takes about 2:30hrs from each of these two places to get to Papantla. When we visited El Tajin we were there early at opening time on a weekday and it started to rain. We had the place to ourselves (we saw only another couple visiting the ruins) and it was magical.

BTW, another special place you might want to visit is Cuetzalan to see the Sunday market (the people from the nearby villages concentrate there on Sunday). There are also hikes among coffee groves to see waterfalls and there are huge caves to explore (a guide with flashlight is available at the entrance). Cuetzalan is in the State of Puebla on the other side of the mountains from Papantla. It is possible to get there from Xalapa going West to Perote, then North to Teziutlan, then West to Zacapoaxtla, then North to Cuetzalan.

Inspired by all your helpful replies (many thanks!), I'm close to canceling Oaxaca with the comfort of knowing that we can still have a great food/other activity trip to Veracruz (still assessing Michoacan, but now Veracruz is winning!). Luckily, I HAVE been able to find frequent flyer tickets to Veracruz - and possibly Puebla as well. A few questions:

1. Do you recommend trying to go to Puebla as part of the same trip? We'll have eight full days on the ground (excluding the two travel days), and I'm wondering if that will feel too rushed if we want to explore all that's in Veracruz (inc. Xalapa) in an unrushed way. Maybe I'm already answering my own question?!?

2. I've heard mixed things about Papantla (including one response in this thread), but we'd probably want to check it out - and also go to El Tajin anyway. Do you recommend staying overnight in Papantla? Or should we make it a daytrip from Xalapa? Or from Veracruz?

3. Lastly, any thoughts about doing all of this by public transportation (bus)? If you highly recommend a car for any segments, which would they be? Safe to have a car in this area?

Oh - and would still welcome any other great foodie destinations in this whole Puebla/Veracruz region.

I appreciate all the help!

[Caarina]

I wanted to put a link out there to everyone who is interested in travel in Veracruz. Cookbook author and restauranteur, Zarela Martinez, recently published a book on Veracruz and has on her website restaurant and hotel recommendations for the state. You can check these out for ideas and a starting point.
http://www.zarela.co...ela-travel.html


I highly recommend Raquel Torres' restaurants in Xalapa-- La Churreria del Recuerdo (cenaduria--supper place) and Meson del Alfarez--I had the most excellent breakfasts there. I loved their Huevos a la veracruzana.. drooling on the keyboard as I write this...Basically, they are scrambled eggs wrapped in a corn tortilla and then bathed in black bean sauce like enfrijoladas. They are then garnished with the delicious local cheese and cream.

[juuceman]

buses in Mexico are incredible - first class buses, especially those that travel overnight, are extremely comfortable, often setup with 2 seats on one side of the aisle and one on the other all of which recline almost fully.. there's a small kitchen in the back with packaged snacks, drinks, and cup o'noodles, and the bathrooms have a small anteroom, so there's little, if any smell, that emanates into the bus.. seats are assigned and honored.. 2nd class buses are another story altogether, maybe half the price of Executive or 1st class buses, and are often oversold and make numerous stops.. buy the most expensive bus ticket you can afford for overnight trips, and skimp on day buses if you prefer..

Puerto Escondido is great, it's nothing like Zihua, which is nice, but completely over run by the tourist industry as compared to Puerto.. It doesn't sound like you'll make it to the Pacific Coast this trip, which is a shame as it really is beautiful, but hopefully you'll return..

we're headed to Puerto for the holidays and might go up to Oaxaca City for a few days, depending on reports of violence, access, etc..

[dimsumfan]

buses in Mexico are incredible

Yeah, won't make it to the Pacific Coast this time, but everyone's been incredibly helpful with making an alternate plan. Looking forward to good eating, and will report back.

Regarding the bus situation, how is traveling on them with suitcases (airline carry-on size with wheels)? Overhead storage, or do they get checked into a storage area? And upon arriving at destinations, are there storage lockers if we're not planning to stay overnight in the town?

[Caarina]

In the first class buses, standard suitcases are usually stowed in the baggage compartment. In my experience, I have been given a baggage claim ticket to claim the bag at your arrival destination.

[juuceman]

buses in Mexico are incredible

Yeah, won't make it to the Pacific Coast this time, but everyone's been incredibly helpful with making an alternate plan. Looking forward to good eating, and will report back.

Regarding the bus situation, how is traveling on them with suitcases (airline carry-on size with wheels)? Overhead storage, or do they get checked into a storage area? And upon arriving at destinations, are there storage lockers if we're not planning to stay overnight in the town?

yes - baggage claim tickets on most, if not all, first and second class buses now.. and most, if not all, of the bus stations have luggage checks for a few pesos, again with numbered claim tickets..

[Jesse A]

It seems that things have calmed down, so we've changed our plans and the girlfriend and I will be going to Oaxaca in mid-January.

There's a lot of overwhelming information about eating in Oaxaca out there, so can anyone provide (or point me towards) a simple, straightforward guide to the best eats in Oaxaca? We'll have about four days in the city, and our main interest is rustic, traditional food, although we'd certainly try some "nueva cocina" (if that's the right term) if folks think it's worth doing. Street food as well.

To give a sense of our budget... US$20-30 per person (not incl. drinks) for a meal would definitely be a splurge, although we could do it once or twice during the trip.

So, break it down -- where do we need to eat, and what do we need to try?

[docsconz]

It seems that things have calmed down, so we've changed our plans and the girlfriend and I will be going to Oaxaca in mid-January.

There's a lot of overwhelming information about eating in Oaxaca out there, so can anyone provide (or point me towards) a simple, straightforward guide to the best eats in Oaxaca? We'll have about four days in the city, and our main interest is rustic, traditional food, although we'd certainly try some "nueva cocina" (if that's the right term) if folks think it's worth doing. Street food as well.

To give a sense of our budget... US$20-30 per person (not incl. drinks) for a meal would definitely be a splurge, although we could do it once or twice during the trip.

So, break it down -- where do we need to eat, and what do we need to try?

One question would be who and what is still there. A number of businesses apparently fled. I hope they have returned, but don't know.

[divina]

I would email Mary Jane of manomagica, or suzanna trilling of seasons of my heart.
both are americans living in Oaxaca for a long time with businesses there.
Recently I heard from Suzanna ( I have gone twice and taken cooking classes from her) and she was saying that people were having to close due to the lack of tourism, not so much running away...

I adore Oaxaca and the area's surrounding it.
have a fabulous time..
and do contact mary Jane and or suzanna.. I am sure they would love to know that people are coming!

[juuceman]

I`m sitting in the internet shop on the Zocalo right now. We`ve been here four days, and the city has gotten more and more lively since January 2nd, it`s odd but nice to see. The restaurants and hotels are empty. Literally. Along the zocalo the cafes that used to be, and still should be, packed have been pretty much empty until this morning, there`s been a large influx of Mexicans into town lately. It`s completely safe, but more police-like. All corners of the zocalo are under police control and while it is easy to come and go as a foreigner, it`s weird.

The Camino Real is offering a rate that`s more than 50% off of the regular rate, and most other hotels here are willing to deal. The hotel on the North side of the zocalo reopened this morning and is offering a 25% discount for bookings but they are still doing a lot of renovation to the rooms.

All political grafitti has been covered with white wash making for an odd scene all across the city. There was a significant amount of anti government grafitti so pretty much every wall in the city has at least one white wash.

El Naranjo is still closed, and looks like it will continue to be closed for the near future. The facade is completely covered in paint and the whole thing is slightly depressing. I will post a few pictures upon my return.

In terms of must hits - at the 20 Novembre Market there is an area where you purchase your meat, tortillas, and vegetables and they grill them on indoor charcoal grills. It`s probably the best street food around. Tortas from anyplace that specializes in them are great, generally there are good tacos in these places as well. Both of these options are dirt cheap and should be under $10 in total.

We`ve eaten a couple of meals at La Biznaga, located at Garcia Vigil 512, centro, and found it to be very good. It`s a newer restaurant, featuring what they term cocina mestiza, basically using Oaxacan ingredients in both traditional and more updated versions. It has a great atmosphere, is an interior courtyard restaurant with retractable roof, and is open for lunch, dinner, and drinks and coffee all day and featured a comida corrida at lunch for $60 pesos (the cambios are advertising 10.71 pesos to the dollar right now). It`s casual, but I highly recommend it, it`s basically the best food we`ve had here this trip.

I`d suggest skipping eating lunch and dinner on the zocalo, the food is middling in quality and rather expensive.

Olivo has been closed three nights in a row, and we`ve been disappointed as the meal there was good, but it is not traditional Oaxacan fare, so it`s being closed might not be a big issue for some visiting.

Casa Oaxaca`s menu turned us off, it was just too expensive and the restaurant itself was empty.

Where else are you headed, I`m thinking maybe the coastal beaches¿¿

[Sneakeater]

Useless pile-on addendum that I quite enjoyed La Biznaga (in palmier days).

[halland]

Just curious if anyone has any updates on how things have shaken out in Oaxaca? I'll be down there in 2 weeks, and will of course report back, but if anyone else has been there recently, I'd like to hear your thoughts.

Hal

[esperanza]

Just curious if anyone has any updates on how things have shaken out in Oaxaca?  I'll be down there in 2 weeks, and will of course report back, but if anyone else has been there recently, I'd like to hear your thoughts.

Hal

Today's Mexican newspapers are reporting that the Oaxacan teachers have gone back to the streets--on strike again.

In addition, this: http://cml.vientos.info/node/7750. This conference is scheduled from Feb 23 through Mar 25.

If I hear more tomorrow, I'll post back here.

Edited by esperanza, 22 February 2007 - 07:26 PM.

[daisy17]

Wanted to revive this thread in the hopes that people can let me know whether I should consider traveling to Oaxaca in early November. It sounds like an amazing place, but I'm curious to know if this is a good time to visit. Likely to be traveling solo, possibly taking a cooking/language class. Any thoughts? Many thanks in advance.

[djyee100]

Hi Daisy

I bought the airline ticket, so I must be going. I'll be in Oaxaca at the same time, starting in the last week of October to the beginning of November.

It's difficult to get information out of there. The locals who depend on the tourist industry have been creamed, because of last year's riots, and they are (of course) encouraging people to visit. My tour organizer informed me that there were a couple incidents this summer, with molotov cocktails (or some such) set off in shopping malls. But the city in general seems to be stable. My tour organizer, who cancelled the trip last year, says she feels it will go this year. We are keeping our fingers crossed.

I'll PM you if I learn of anything else.

Donna

[Jay Francis]

Thanks for reviving this thread. We will be in Oaxaca the week of November 10 through November 17, staying at Casa Lidia in Jalatlaco, which is a quiet little neighborhood just a few minutes walk east from the Santo Domingo church. This will be our 20th year of coming to Oaxaca. We were even there during the protests. So, if anyone is there at the same time and wants to meet for dinner? Especially any "first-timers" as I know the markets very well and would be pleased to include you when we tour them. The more the merrier, I say.

Jay

[GlassHouse]

El Naranjo is still closed, and looks like it will continue to be closed for the near future.  The facade is completely covered in paint and the whole thing is slightly depressing.  I will post a few pictures upon my return.

An article in this morning's NY Times recommends El Naranjo. Does this mean it is re-open (with Iliana?) or are they just behind the times with their information?

[kalypso]

An article in this morning's NY Times recommends El Naranjo.  Does this mean it is re-open (with Iliana?) or are they just behind the times with their information?

El Naranjo has reopened. Iliana is not running it. She sold the restaurant to an American who has renovated and reopened. There are two threads on the Chowhound Mexico board from people recently returned from Oaxaca. Both have given the new El Naranjo a big thumbs up.

Edited by kalypso, 24 November 2007 - 11:26 AM.

[Jay Francis]

I'm very proud of the little weblog I created for our recent trip to Oaxaca (lots of food photos) and would like to share it with the hopes that it will give you some tips on things to do and look out for in Oaxaca. Besides our breakfasts at our Casa Lidia bed and breakfast, we dined at El Escapulario, Comedor Francis, Los Pacos, Asador del Vasco, El Naranjo restaurants and didn't even scratch the surface of re-visiting favorites from previous trips. I didn't even get to Abastos or 20 de Noviembre markets on this trip, we were so busy exploring small towns.

Here is the link:

http://journals.aol....-oaxaca-oaxaca/

[juuceman]

El Naranjo is still closed, and looks like it will continue to be closed for the near future.  The facade is completely covered in paint and the whole thing is slightly depressing.  I will post a few pictures upon my return.

An article in this morning's NY Times recommends El Naranjo. Does this mean it is re-open (with Iliana?) or are they just behind the times with their information?

the Times article seems to rely on old information, giving the website of the old Naranjo restaurant, and not mentioning that it was sold and has both a new chef and a new menu.

[Jay Francis]

El Naranjo deserves a visit, at least one meal. But be sure to order the spectacular capirotada for dessert on your visit.

Other noteworth eats: Asador Vasco. Yep, I know it is a Spanish restaurant but my wife swears by their tamal de cazuela. Poblano chiles, cream or milk or both, queso Oaxaqueno, masa, yum. And as mentioned earlier, it would be hard to find a bad meal at El Escapulario. Again, the wife loved the chicken in mango sauce. I had a terrific tlayuda. I could eat every meal there and be happy. The comida corrida is only $4. Main courses are around $8 and worth every penny. And, don't forget to enter from the east side of the 20 de Noviembre market and order some fresh tasajo or cecina to be grilled right on the spot, served with tortillas and guacamole. And if you stay at Casa Lidia, see if they can get you some of those wonderful tamales from Xoxocatlan for breakfast.

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=X-mAhnJAZ48

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=qi0g8Upq2gY

Edited by Jay Francis, 14 December 2007 - 07:01 PM.

[docsconz]

Iliana de la Vega, formerly of Oaxaca's El Naranjo is now a chef-instructor at the new Culinary Institute of America San Antonio. She will be teaching courses on Regional Mexican Cuisine: Puebla and Oaxaca and Mexico's Corn Kitchen.