156 replies to this topic

[BON]

Replying to Jason's query on the ramen soup recipe in "Taipei" thread
on the "Off the Beaten Path"board. Hope many of you do not mistakely
believe ramen is an instant noodle. If you do, pls vist my web site linked below.

You can find ramen soup recipes in the following web sites;
http://www.bob-an.co...amen/ramen.html
http://www.bob-an.com/recipe/dailyjc/basic...n.html

Please keep in mind they are just basic recipes. And well-reputed
ramen shops are using much more elaborated recipes. Otherwise
they cannot compete in a severe ramen battle field. Believe it or not,
we have more than 5000 ramen specility shops solely in Tokyo, not
including chinese restaurants offering ramen in their menu.

One of the examples to differentiate from others is to make blended soup
stock with one of pork or chcken bones and one of dried bonito or small sardine
both of which are commonly used for soup of Japanese cuisine.

[jhlurie]

Can you elaborate on the ACTUAL differences between ramen and other similar types of noodles?  Soba and Udon are clearly different from ramen, but aren't there lots of others?

Epicurous food encyclopedia is not very informative, at least as far as Ramen is concerned.

[RAH-mehn]
1. Asian instant-style deep-fried noodles that are usually sold in cellophane packages, sometimes with bits of dehydrated vegetables and broth mix. 2. A Japanese dish of noodles, small pieces of meat and vegetables and broth.

(Edited by jhlurie at 3:23 pm on Aug. 9, 2001)

[BON]

ihlurie:
Main confusion lay between ramen and other noodle dishes originated in China. This is because the word, ramen is used for not only my beloved bowl-dish (Is this correct English?) but also a genre of noodle dishes with some Chinese traces in Japan.(FYI Soba is also used for noodles in general.) To tell you the truth, many Japanese also confused distinguishing ramen from the others.
Additionally it is quite difficult to define "what is ramen" by its spec because it has been developing day by day with each shop's differentiation effort. Moreover, even though they are called ramen commonly, ingredients of the soup and noodle types vary by region even within Japan.
However, as a serious ramen lover, I have been trying to develop my own definition of ramen. Here is it. "Ramen is noodle dish with soup originated in China, which has been developed and reformed adapting essences of Japanese cuisine (such as using soy sauce or miso-paste as seasonings, and adding to soup stock made of dried bonito or dried small sardines). Speaking of physical difference, noodles of ramen are firmer than the original Chinese noodles. This is considered to be the influence from soba's texture.
The easiest way to tell whether it is ramen or not is its name. As long as it is ramen, it must have "ramen" in its name like "Corn ramen" or "Miso ramen." On the other hand, Non-ramen Chinese noodles remain their Chinese identity in their names. This rule can be applied to most cases though there are few exceptions. (Pls see the pages of "ABC of Ramen", "Ramen Variation", and "Noodle Variation" of my web site liked below.)
It is sad to find such influential medium wrongly describing ramen as instant noodles, although I like them, too. But pls keep in mind instant ramens are tips of huge iceberg of the world of ramen.  

Jason:
Thank you very much for info of "Ramen" and "Larmen."  Yeah as you mentioned, in Japanese language, we have no clear distinction between "R" and "L" sounds. Sometimes this makes us to catch the words correctly.

(Edited by BON at 6:41 am on Aug. 10, 2001)

[BON]

I have found another ramen recipe page in English.
This one is of Miso Ramen.
http://www.geocities...9151/ramen.html

[BON]

Replying to the request of some ramen lover who would like to
cook ramen from scratch, I looked for a recipe of ramen noodle.
Usually cooking ramen noodles needs "Kansui", brine water which
helps to formulate gluten and make noodles more bouncing than
without it. It also adds some aroma which characterises noodles
of ramen from that of udon & other noodles.But "Kansui" is hard
to find outside of Japan, so the follwing is the recipe without
"Kansui".
(Ingredients/ for 4 people�j
�EBread Flour�F�@375g
�EAll Purpose Flour�F�@75g
�EWater�F�@175cc
�EBaking Soda�F�@5‚‡�iTeaspoon 1�j
�ESalt�F�@5‚‡�iTeaspoon 1�j
�EEgg�F�@1�iLarge�j
(Cooking Procedure�j
1.Mix well the egg, water, baking soda, and salt in a bowl.
2.Pour the liquid of (1) onto the mixed flour in a large bowl.
3.Knead all the ingredients till they make dough
4.Put the dough into a thick plastic bag and stamp the dough flat. When it gets flat, fold it into 4 and repeat stamping. Repeat the same procedure 10 times.
5.Shape the dough into a ball and wrap it in the kitchen-wrap. Age the dough at the room temperature for a few hours.
6.Roll out the dough and cut into noodles. You can use a pasta machine.
7.Dust the noodles with flours so that each noodle will not cling with each other.
8.Put noodle in piping hot water. Boiling time is 1-1and a half minute.

Please be noted noodles are easy to be influeced by temperature, humidity,
and the conditions of ingredients.So, you need to adjust the recipe accordingly. Anyway, Goodl Luck! Send your review when you try it.I'd like
to hear how it turns out.

[dougery]

My friend and I have been doing a little research on ramen and was wondering if anyone knows of a good ramen broth recipe or if there is a link to a thread in this forum?

There were some great Ramen shops up in Vancouver BC but I'm afraid none of them would share their recipe (as if they would : )

I know some of you great cooks out there have some good ones.

Thanks!

[torakris]

I have never made ramen myself, not really a big ramen fan....

Check out worldramen.net's recipe links (left column near the bottom):
http://www.worldramen.net/

[dougery]

Great links! Thanks!

I used to dislike ramen as a child (probably because it was Top Ramen), but when I was in my teens, my mother started working at Uwajimaya's asian grocery and would bring home fresh ramen noodles all of the time. I guess I learned to love ramen (watching Tampopo didn't hurt either).

[helenjp]

I've been hanging fire on this one, because I'm not a huge ramen fan. The broth recipe I use is at least 20 years old, and fashions change in ramen broth as in everything else!

There are two main styles in ramen broth: the eastern/northern chicken broth, and the western/southern pork broth style. Then there's the people who use both pork ribs AND chicken carcasses to make their broth, and those weird types who add dashi.

Tokyo ramen is mainly a chicken broth style, but tonkotsu (pork bones) ramen has become more popular over the years.

This is the recipe I've used for 20 years...
(4 servings)
2 chicken carcasses, 4 good-sized pork bones (ribs or feet)
the green half of a negi (Japanese dividing onion), 1 lump of fresh ginger
8 or so black peppercorns
4 pints water
Use a cleaver to split up the bones as needed, slice the ginger into thick slices, split the onion vertically. Put bones and water onto heat, and bring to a good simmer, and simmer for 2-3 hours, until soup has reduced by 1/3 to 1/2. Strain through a cloth. If you want a rich, whitish Kyushu style soup, put the lid on and allow the pot to boil for a while, and don't strain. Salt broth very lightly at this point.

Seasonings are placed in the bottom of the bowl, and vary a little according to the saltiness of whatever you add to the noodles. Assuming 1/2 pint broth per person, you will add 1-2 tsp of light soy sauce (usukuchi shoyu) and about 1/2 tsp or so of Japanese toasted sesame oil (goma-abura). Salt or miso can be used in place of soy sauce, and lard is sometimes added to a chicken ramen, but shouldn't be needed for a pork broth.

A very basic ramen would be...seasonings in bottom of bowl, cooked noodles (boiled in fresh hot water, not in the broth), and a topping of sliced Chinese roast pork, chopped negi or scallions, and maybe a litle boiled spinach, some slices of menma (bamboo shoot in a flavored broth), or half a boiled egg.

[_john]

I have tried several recipes for yakibuta as a ramen topping but none have been able to match the taste and texture of a ramen shop. the recipes I tried produced fairly dry and tough pork that did not have the same flavor. what cut of pork is used in japan? How do you cook it and for how long? also, on the topic of ramen toppings, does anyone know if shinachiku can be found in japanese grocery stores in the U.S.?

[Jason Perlow]

Funny that you ask:

http://forums.egulle...showtopic=55246

Welcome to the site.

[_john]

the true Chinese style char sui and the Japanese ramen topping (which is sometimes called char sui) are slightly different. The Japanese version is usually not red in my experience and seems to be a different cut or meat (it usually is cylindrical). Reading that thred certainly gave me some ideas of what to try though, thanks.

[Hiroyuki]

I can't tell what you are looking for, but how about them:
http://www.jhg.co.jp...s/yakibuta.html
http://www.bob-an.co...amen/ramen.html
http://maki.typepad....ed_buns_wi.html
More recipes? That's easy. Just do a google search under yakibuta.

[torakris]

welcome to the Japan forum!

I know what you are looking for and I have never been satisfied with any of my attempts to make it. In Japan it is often made with a cut of meat labeled yakibuta-you (for yakibuta) that is a semi-fatty shoulder cut already in a net. It looks like this:
http://www.koedo.com...pg/yakibuta.jpg

And whenever I have seen them talking about this on tv, they simmer it for hours, none of this 40 minute stuff.

so try one of the recipes above, using a semi-fatty cut of pork and tie it with twine to hold its shape if it isn't netted and simmer it for as long as you can be patient...

and then you too can be enjoying:
http://sennaritei.co...ou/yakibuta.jpg

[_john]

whenever I have seen them talking about this on tv, they simmer it for hours

That sounds more like it. Fatty shoulder, tied up in a cylinder, simmered for hours. now I just have to develop a recipe that suits my own taste. I will post the recipe when I get it right. thanks

[Hiroyuki]

Oh, now I see what you two are talking about - simmering.
For example, this recipe calls for 3-hour simmering.
http://www.h5.dion.n...a/newpage62.htm
(Sorry, Japanese only)
The same goes for buta no kakuni, right?
I've never thought about making yakibuta at home, anyway.

[shinju]

Thanks for directing us to the web site for Japanese style chashu. I've also tried various styles looking for the right taste and texture similar to the ramen shop topping, and have not been happy with any of them until I saw the web page. Either I've been skipping steps or blind, it's the browning of meat before simmering that may do the trick. I've tried roasting, barbecuing, steaming, and simmering/braising alone, but never combined browning and simmering for making chashu. I do that when make American style pot roast.

[_john]

ahh the long awaited recipe:
the following recipe recreates almost perfectly my favorite ramen resturants yakibuta

ingredients:
1c. shoyu (japanese soy sauce)
1c. mirin
1/2c. shaoxing rice wine
1/2c. sugar
2-3c. water (you may need to add more if you liquid evaporates too quickly)
1 negi (substitue 1 small leek or 3 green onions)
1 thumb sized pice of ginger sliced into thin rounds
1 "pork loin roast" this may be called something else depending on where you live (see picture for refference)
butcher's twine
opt. pressure cooker

First tie up your roast tightly with the buthers twine. If you dont know how to do it here is a good tutorial. When you are done it should look like this:



The next step is to make the braising liquid. combine all other ingredients in a bowl and stir until the sugar has dissolved (otherwise it will burn at the bottom). slice the green onion and ginger thinly and add it to the liquid.



then add all ingredients in a pressure cooker. put the lid on and let the roast marinate for up to 24 hours. You don't have to marinate in the cooker, that is just how I do it.



When marinating is complete close the lid (if you are using a pressure cooker) and turn heat on high until the liquid boils and pressure is achieved. When the liquid boils set the stove to med-high and let it go for 30min. After 30min put the pressure cooker under a cold tap until the pressure has gone. Open the cooker and turn the roast over and add more water if it looks too low (if the liquid becomes too concentrated it will burn. remember all that sugar?). close it up and braise for another 30min on the second side. let the roast cool to room temperature in the liquid or full flavor will not develop. remove twine, slice, and enjoy.



if you don't have a pressure cooker you can do this in the oven with a pot that has a tight fitting lid. It will take about 3 hours at 400 faerntight. you can also do it in a crock pot but I have never done it that way. The liquid can be used for multiple roasts I freeze mine for when I make more.

now if i could only find shinachiku around here.

Enjoy!

[melonpan]

coolness. *copies recipe*

thanks!

[Hiroyuki]

Great job.
Now I wonder what you have done (or what you will do) about the ramen noodles. Found a good recipe?

[torakris]

about how big was that roast?
and could we use sake for the rice wine?

[_john]

about how big was that roast?
and could we use sake for the rice wine?

the roast was about 4lbs. you could substitute sake or any other liquid you want, the rice wine gives it a nice flavor that compliments the ginger. as for the noodles, I still cant get them quite right. something about the amount of kneading/resting i think. I'm working on it... ::watches tampopo again::

[Sackville]

I'm sorry, I don't even know the proper name for these but one of the first delights we discovered in Tokyo during our short trip was the noodle bar. They were always affordable, usually very simple places. The food seemed to be (from our brief sampling) mostly curry-type soup bases with heaps of thin noodles and some sort of meat or seafood along with a few veggies.

Is there a general name for this dish and any recipes out there?

If it helps, here's a pic of me eating a noodle soup in Tokyo... fresh off the plane so looking a little jetlagged ;-)

[Hiroyuki]

mostly curry-type soup bases

I can't tell from your description or photo which type of ramen soup you are referring to, but I hope this site may be of some help.
http://www.worldramen.net/
Access the site and go to the "Recipe & Mail Order" page.

[smallworld]

Yup, it sounds like you're talking about ramen. The noodle soups served in Japanese ramen shops is so different from what we call "ramen" in North America that I didn't recognise it at first either.

There are several types of broth used for ramen. The three basic kinds are salt-based, with a light clear stock; soy sauce based, with a darker clear stock, and tonkotsu (pork-bone stock), with a cream coloured opaque broth. There are variations of these stocks, and a few other kinds of stocks as well, but those are the basics.

Various flavours can be added to the stock, such as kimchi, miso, curry etc. Toppings usually include char siu pork, menma (strips of bamboo shoots), nori seaweed, negi (sliced scallions), and naruto (white fish sausage with a pink spiral).

Try experimenting with the instant ramen you can find anywhere, or better yet check out a Japanese or Asian market for the non-instant kind. You'd be surprised how good a simple pack of ramen can be once you've gussied it up a bit!

[torakris]

looks like ramen to me too, some recipes can be found in our ramen recipe thread


ramen is probably one of my least favorite foods here.....

[Sackville]

Thank you for your help. I do appreciate it and will check out the Ramen thread. I hope someday I can return the favour by offering a Japanese recipe from one of my books or other help, instead of asking so many questions!

I'm still very much in the learning stage for this cuisine, so unfortunately I have many more questions than answers at the moment :)

[Jason Perlow]

By far, my favorite type of ramen broth is Tonkotsu, which originates from Nagata which is in the south of Japan and is also served in other specialty ramen shops thoughout the country. Click for Flickr photo

This Site has a basic recipe, but I've heard that making real Tonkotsu broth is an entire day affair.

Does anyone have any real, tried and true method for making this stuff? And what kind of pork bones do you need?

[OnigiriFB]

Mmmm that looks nummy! I would also be interested in various ramen broths used. I know soy sauce and miso but had never heard of tonkatsu broth. Any others?

[Jason Perlow]

Onigiri, as I understand, Tonkotsu (spelled that way, as opposed to Tonkatsu, which is a type of fried pork cutlet) broth is a very labor intensive broth to make, as it requires simmering pork bones overnight for like 8-12 hours. Its a white, silky broth with a very strong savory pork flavor, very different from other types of broth used for Ramen soups.