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Using Lard in Pastry


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#121 marlena spieler

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Posted 08 January 2006 - 04:40 AM

not long ago i was given a jar of the most delectable substance from Tuscany: homemade lard studded, and studded generously, with black truffles (tuscany has its very delicious truffles too, as does umbria, piedmonte, and perigord).

you didn't even have to eat the stuff, just open the jar and give a deep invigorating sniff!

but eat it i did, with the help of about a hundred colleagues: i brought it to the potluck lunch at the oxford 2004 symposium of food and drink, and plopped that jar on the table. how many minutes until it was empty, and i swear, it had been licked clean, too!

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#122 ablosh

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Posted 08 January 2006 - 06:07 AM

Is the lard talked about here, meat lard or lard in general? Because I'm a new baker and have found several recipes asking for vegetable shortening. Since it's not often available here in my country, I had to look for it. When I asked a baking supply store, they gave me VEGETABLE LARD and said it was the same...

It looks like a gunk of white, greasy, paste like softened butter in texture, but somehow sturdier. Also, is there supposedly a way to store it? I just placed it in an airtight tupperware and leave it on the counter with my flours and other stuff.
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#123 Becca Porter

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Posted 08 January 2006 - 09:45 AM

The lard discussed here is pork lard. The vegetable shortening you recieved has been hydrogenated to stay in a solid state.

The recipes you have sound like they call for the vegetable shortening. I am unfamiliar with what you were given. What you describe does sound like what Crisco vegetable shortening looks like. You can store it at room temp. or in the fridge.

I hope this helps. Where are you located?
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#124 bleudauvergne

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Posted 08 January 2006 - 12:27 PM

I would love to know what is a shortening agent. Would duck fat do the same thing as lard in savory pastry?

#125 Eden

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Posted 08 January 2006 - 12:43 PM

I would love to know what is a shortening agent.  Would duck fat do the same thing as lard in savory pastry?

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in terms of it's shortening behavior ie how flakey your pastry came out, it would probably be similar though maybe not quite as perfectly flakey. However, pork fat tends to have very little flavor left & is thus usable in sweet applications, while duck fat retains IMO much more of the original duck flavor, so you'd want to A) choose even your savory applications carefully for their duck compatibility :laugh:, and B) test it before serving to others.
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#126 fatmat

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Posted 08 January 2006 - 01:32 PM

Just another use to add to the list... Lard is absolutely essential, IMO, for making good Yorkshire Pudding.

#127 Ling

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Posted 08 January 2006 - 01:44 PM

I always use lard for my pie crusts.

I've tried all vegetable shortening, all butter, and combinations of the three, but I always go back to 100% lard.

#128 MelissaH

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Posted 09 January 2006 - 08:07 AM

I would love to know what is a shortening agent.  Would duck fat do the same thing as lard in savory pastry?

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My husband made his first-ever quiche last night. And in the crust, he used 7 Tbsp. butter and 2 Tbsp. duck fat. It turned out quite yummy, although not excessively ducky. I'd describe it as more crumbly than flaky, but in the context of the rest of the quiche it worked fine.

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#129 ablosh

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Posted 09 January 2006 - 10:14 AM

The lard discussed here is pork lard. The vegetable shortening you recieved has been hydrogenated to stay in a solid state.

The recipes you have sound like they call for the vegetable shortening. I am unfamiliar with what you were given. What you describe does sound like what Crisco vegetable shortening looks like. You can store it at room temp. or in the fridge.

I hope this helps. Where are you located?

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I live in the Philippines, Southeast Asia.

I don't know where to get pork lard here though... Supermarkets don't even carry them and I live in our country's city of cities. I find it hard to find several baking or cooking ingredients here since most western baked goods aren't quite so common here, except maybe for brownies and cakes. (Even homebaked cookies are hard to find, with the exception of VERY EXPENSIVE Mrs. Fields! :hmmm: )
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#130 nimzo

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Posted 09 January 2006 - 10:23 AM

Lardy cake, the ultimate treat for winter tea and an English institution.
I use Dan Lepers recipe with added fruit and a little less lard.
500gr strong white
200gr leaven( have used just yeast before and adapted flour weight) 250gr warm water
21/2 teaspoons fresh yeast
125gr lard
150gr caster sugar
nutmeg
75gr sultanas,currants or raisins ,whichever you prefer

Mix dry ingredients with soaked yeast/water.Leave 10mins
Knead for a few seconds, rest 10 mins, knead again briefly then leave for an hour.
Roll into rectangle and sprinkle chopped lard and fruit over 2/3 of rectangleSprinkle over the sugar then fold into 3 layers so the sugar/lard is enclosed.Roll out into rectangle again and fold into 3 again.Roll out to 1/2 inch thick then roll into a cylinder as you would with Chelsea buns.
Line a circular non-stick tin, cut cylinder in half lenghtways and place half, cut side upwards in tin. Leave in warm for 1 hour.

Heat oven to 400F, sprinkle with nutmeg and a couple of spoons of sugar. Bake for 50mins to 1 hour

I like it warm others prefer the set lard in the cool version.

#131 skyflyer3

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Posted 01 April 2006 - 10:57 AM

Can lard be used to straight sub for shortening in any baked good? I have a banana bread recipe that calls for shortening, and was wondering if lard might affect the crumb in some way. Thanks!

#132 chiantiglace

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Posted 01 April 2006 - 12:51 PM

It can be subbed, I don't know why you just dont use butter but lard is still better than shortening.
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#133 Sugarella

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Posted 01 April 2006 - 01:19 PM

Can lard be used to straight sub for shortening in any baked good? 

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I know we're talking pie crusts here, but by "baked good" do you mean anything? I wouldn't use lard in the sweet department for anything that calls for vegetable shortening, like gingerbreads or cookies. Best to use butter in place of crisco for those type of things.

#134 Just loafing

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Posted 01 April 2006 - 08:34 PM

Sorry to sound like a pleb ... but I vastly prefer margarine (I use non-hyrdogenated canola) to shortening in sweet baked goods. And, of course, Tenderflake lard, which is now also non-hydrogenated, for pie crusts. Tenderflake is a Canadian brand. Susan

#135 sheetz

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Posted 01 April 2006 - 09:07 PM

Can lard be used to straight sub for shortening in any baked good? 

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I know we're talking pie crusts here, but by "baked good" do you mean anything? I wouldn't use lard in the sweet department for anything that calls for vegetable shortening, like gingerbreads or cookies. Best to use butter in place of crisco for those type of things.

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I disagree. Lard works very well in place of shortening in sweet things like cookies.

#136 MamaC

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Posted 01 April 2006 - 09:39 PM

I'll go with the lard.

I use it a lot for dough too. As in cookies, sweet dough, pastries.

Edited by MamaC, 01 April 2006 - 10:03 PM.


#137 zoe b

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Posted 12 May 2007 - 07:34 AM

my husband's Aunt Jane (who was Southern) made the most fabulous pies--and always used lard--I'd forgotten this until last night--I had some leftover pot roast and decided to make Cornish Pasties out of it--once i got the recipe it appeared that you use raw meat, but i had some juice from the sauce left and threw that on top to perhaps keep it moister.

The dough recipe called for half butter half lard--the filling was kind of dry, but the crust was magnificent--crisp and flaky, not the least bit greasy, which I think sometimes happens with an all butter dough.

I used lard from the pig we bought, so maybe the excellent quality of it was what made such a wonderful crust, but still, I'm converted--am making an apple tart today with an all lard crust to see how i like that.

Zoe

#138 chefpeon

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Posted 12 May 2007 - 08:29 AM

I'm a huge fan of lard, leaf lard to be exact.
But in my experience, I think crusts need to have at least a little butter in there for flavor.
I wouldn't go 100% lard.
I figure that all that flakiness isn't so great if you don't have flavor to go with it. :smile:

#139 zoe b

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Posted 12 May 2007 - 12:35 PM

I wouldn't go 100% lard.
I figure that all that flakiness isn't so great if you don't have flavor to go with it. :smile:

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good point--I think the 50-50 was perfect in terms of taste/flakiness

what %s do you like?

I would guess that any less than 20% butter and you wouldn't get the butter flav.

Z

and i forgot to ask--leaf lard? I think that's the lard around the organs? I just get a tub of lard when i get my meat--don't know the specific make up of it--but it's lovely stuff--creamy and no odor at all.

Edited by zoe b, 12 May 2007 - 12:36 PM.


#140 srhcb

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Posted 12 May 2007 - 01:45 PM

My Mother always used lard & butter for pie crust but 100% lard for pasty.

SB (personally crust-challenged :sad: )

#141 miladyinsanity

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Posted 12 May 2007 - 03:45 PM

My Mother always used lard & butter for pie crust but 100% lard for pasty. 

SB (personally crust-challenged :sad: )

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I've not found any reason to bother hunting for lard, but I'm crust-challenged in a slightly different way.

My pate sablee comes out like flaky like pie crust and it's not supposed to be like that. :blink: :hmmm:
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#142 Carolyn Tillie

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Posted 12 May 2007 - 04:52 PM

When I am making a dough for anything savory, I use duck fat. 50/50 lard/butter for sweet dough, but 50/50 duck fat/butter for savory.

Amazing.

#143 chefpeon

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Posted 12 May 2007 - 09:01 PM

 
good point--I think the 50-50 was perfect in terms of taste/flakiness

what %s do you like?


Actually the crust I make now is about 60 percent butter, 40 percent leaf lard.....I should probably see what it's like going 50-50.....I've never done it since I like what I'm making so much. If it ain't broke, don't fix it, as they say.....

And yeah, leaf lard is the fat found around the pig's kidneys if I remember right. I special order my leaf lard from Dietrich's Meats in Pennsylvania......

Oh yeah, Carolyn.....I'm all over the duck fat thing.......YOW-ZA!

#144 Lindacakes

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Posted 14 May 2007 - 09:32 AM

Another half and halfer. Also order from Dietrich's. New thing I just found out about -- Flying Pig.

I also use high fat butter -- organic high fat butter for extra fattiness.

Duck fat. Better fat.
I like to bake nice things. And then I eat them. Then I can bake some more.

#145 onehsancare

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Posted 14 May 2007 - 01:00 PM

Another half and halfer.  Also order from Dietrich's.  New thing I just found out about -- Flying Pig.

I also use high fat butter -- organic high fat butter for extra fattiness.

Duck fat.  Better fat.

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Ditto on all counts. Need to check out Flying Pig. Found it: Flying Pig Farm

Edited by onehsancare, 14 May 2007 - 01:11 PM.

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#146 Lindacakes

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Posted 14 May 2007 - 02:05 PM

That's it! Thanks for finding it -- they do Union Square Greenmarket, apparently.

Found out about them on either The Splendid Table or Good Food, can't remember which, but they sound fab.

It's a very good segment, if you want to hear about pig fat, fat back, fat.

Yum. Fat.
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#147 zoe b

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Posted 14 May 2007 - 02:42 PM

ohhh, duck fat in a dough--that would be fabulous!!!

#148 sugarseattle

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Posted 14 May 2007 - 05:05 PM

i've always used 70% butter and 30% veg shortening, and my crust is flavorful and light, but with all the people freaking out about hydrogenated fats, rightfully so, I suppose I should switch to lard, but it just grosses me out so much. I remember as a kid someone told me that oreos were filled with lard and sugar and I could never eat them for a while after that. I think I should try it, but lard just sounds so graphic to me
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#149 Blether

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Posted 14 May 2007 - 05:10 PM

... I also use high fat butter -- organic high fat butter for extra fattiness.

Duck fat.  Better fat.

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Yeah, I wonder about this. Sometimes :wink:

Butter is always going to have a certain amount of water in it, so replacing it with anything that's pure/purer fat - lard, duck fat, Crisco - will have the same effect as increasing the overall proportion of fat - shorter, flakier pastry.

Has anyone tried clarified butter in pastry ?

(Edited because 'r' in brackets becomes ® )

Edited by Blether, 14 May 2007 - 08:36 PM.


#150 andiesenji

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Posted 14 May 2007 - 06:41 PM

Unless I am baking for guests who have dietary restrictions, I use lard, home rendered if I have it on hand or the bulk "fresh" lard I buy at local Mexican markets. I don't like the commercial mass-produced stuff.

Well ahead of time I measure out the amount I will need, spread it in a shallow container (since the advent of the silicone baking pans, I use these) place it in the freezer and when it is very firm, I turn it out onto a flexible cutting board and chop it into small chunks or cubes.
(I have an excellent 2-handled cheese knife that does a lovely job)

It immediately goes into the food processor into which the dry ingredients have been measured and I pulse just until it looks like fat crumbs.
While pulsing the processor, I add ice water through the pusher, which has a small hole in the lower end which is perfect for gradually adding the liquid just until the dough just BEGINS to form a ball, but there will still be about 1/3 loose crumbs.
There is now enough moisture * in the pastry to hold together so it can be wrapped in plastic and placed in the fridge for 30 minutes.
Then it can be rolled, shaped, cut, etc.

The less handling, the less working, the more tender and flaky the crust will be.

* Don't go by volume measurement for the liquid. On humid days you will need less, sometimes a lot less, than on very dry days.

I have a friend who has a home in Houston, TX and a second home in the hill country which is a higher altitude and much, much dryer. For a two-crust pie pastry, she uses at least 1 additional tablespoon of ice water when baking in the hill country. A significant difference.
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