99 replies to this topic

[torakris]

If you look around a bit you will see some products labeled
無添加調味料
mutenka choumiryou

These are additive free products and I have seen them popping up more and more, but I am unsure of the availibility of them out of Japan.

Ｈｅｒｅ　ｉｓ　ｏｎｅ　ｅｘａｍｐｌｅ

They still are not a staple prodcut on supermarket shelves here though....

[Hiroyuki]

OK, I should have said, "I was pretty sure there were no such things as MSG-free dashi powder until these products came into existence."
I did a good search and found that even Shimaya, the inventor of instant dashi powder, now produces mutenka dashi powder.
http://www.shimaya.c.../mutenka-1.html
Quite amazing!
I think I'll stick to one of those cheap instant dashi powder, though.

[JasonTrue]

also keep in mind that even "msg-free" or additive free dashi-no-moto is not free of msg. It's just going to be free of the purified, crystalline product. Konbu (dried) is the food from which MSG was first isolated, as far as I recall; it's just in much more sensible quantities.

You'll also find glutamates in other foods, especially cheeses, yeast extract, and chilies.

[Sencha]

I have a package of MSG-free dashinomoto around, surprisingly. I rarely use it though. I tend to only use it when I need such a small amount of dashi (few tablespoons?) that I don't feel like making a normal amount, and just when the taste won't be that noticable.
Still, I like the idea of the mutenka type in those situations.

[NickLam]

I've purchased MSG free Dashi no moto in Australia, Singapore and Thailand. I can't remember the exact name, but it comes in either a blue or green box, with a picture of a bonito on it....and to make it obvious.......it says MSG free across one corner!

But they do use mushroom extract and seaweed extract, so maybe MSG free means no chemical MSG but natural ones.

[Soup]

I know Kelp is a natural source of MSG but I have never gotten a head ache from it. But I eat foods with MSG added, I get the aches.

[nagitokyo]

I would like to introduce about Korean style dashi powder.
I came to know this from Korean TV drama called "Changum"

You can make this simply crashing and mixing dried shiitake,dried iriko(small sardine or something?) and dried konbu. You can use this for miso soup, ohitashi and any Japanese dishes that uses dashi powder and tastes nice. I think it well worth trying.

[Kent Wang]

When making niban-dashi, I reuse the first dashi materials, plus a handful of fresh katsuobushi flakes.

Is this how it's usually done? If so, why is the niban-dashi, according to torakris "stronger flavored"?

I'm thinking of making a risotto with dashi, should I use ichiban or niban dashi? I'm leaning towards the ichiban.

[torakris]

When making niban-dashi, I reuse the first dashi materials, plus a handful of fresh katsuobushi flakes.

Is this how it's usually done? If so, why is the niban-dashi, according to torakris "stronger flavored"?

I'm thinking of making a risotto with dashi, should I use ichiban or niban dashi? I'm leaning towards the ichiban.

Yes, this is how it is usually done. The stronger flavor comes fom the additional katsuo flakes. Niban dashi can also be made with the strained kombu and katsuo used in the making of the ichiban dashi and then simmered for a longer period to create a stronger broth. The longer it is simmered the stronger it is.

Ichiban dashi is normally reserved for clear soups where you want the taste of the other ingredients to stand out. It is best used immediately after making before it looses its fragrance. The subleties of this broth could be lost in a risotto and I think I would prefer a stronger tasting niban dashi. Of course I am not one who normally takes a light hand in cooking...

[Hiroyuki]

Considering the fact that
Ichiban = fragrant, for use in clear soups
Niban = tasty, for use in simmered disehs and miso soups
as torakris suggests,
niban dashi seems to be the right answer.
This Japanese-style risotto recipe calls for ichiban dashi, but no explanation as to why ichiban should be used.

[ojisan]

If you really, really want some....
Let me know before I head back to the US next summer.   The shipping from Japan is ridiculous and probably not worth the price, but it would be quite cheap for me to bring in my suitcase and ship it from Ohio.

I'd be very interested in being able to obtain a genuine katsuo block, but am wondering whether it could be shaved using a French style mandoline or even a Benriner.

Also, how much do the katsuos cost? I assume they are graded according to quality or size etc.

[_john]

katsuo blocks cost about 1000¥ and the shaving box costs about 3000¥. I guess if you were inventive you could turn a woodworking plane upside down and clamp it to something and then shave with that. The block is really hard, harder than most woods, so I don't think the french style mandoline or benriner would withstand the cutting or be stable enough. I buy mine by weight at a wholesale market. I'm not sure what the cost per gram is because the man usually weights it and says "that'll be 1000¥" when clearly they are different weights each time. we have a special relationship, me and the katsuo man.

[budrichard]

I recently purchased a package of 50 of these tea like bags to make dashi. The product works great for instant dashi for sauces/dips but I don't know how much water per pack. This is the URL for Marusan http://www.marusan-s.../furidashi.html .
Can someone please access the site and let me know? thanks for your help.-Dick

[sanrensho]

I don't see the ratio listed on the product page, although it might be be buried somewhere in the site. It's probably listed on the box. Can you post a photo of the box from different sides?

[torakris]

I have scoured the site as well and can't find any information. I did request some free samples of their products though!
If you could post a picture it would be great otherwise I am headed off to a supermarket in a couple hours and I could look for it there and report back.

[budrichard]

Thanks all, pictures tomorrow.-Dick

[Hiroyuki]

According to this blog, per bag:

600 ml: Clear soup, chawanmushi, oden, nabe, etc.
400 ml: Udon, soba, nimono (simmered dish), etc.
?? ml: Somen, ohitashi (boiled vegetable), etc.
600?? ml: Miso soup

I have a similar product at home, which also says 600 ml per bag.

[budrichard]

Thank you very much!
I made a nabe last night with home made chicken stock and blended it with dashi made with the bags. The bags have salt unlike the high grade bonito flakes I use for Miso soup, so you have to be careful not to use too many for a bonito flavor. But since the chicken stock had no salt, it was a good match. Anyway, layered the bottom of the bowl with thin slices of Matsutake sliced with a new Nakiribocho AS Hocho from this maker http://www.shop.niim...en/index_e.html .
Takeda comes to the Chicago Custom Knife show every year and brings what i order for me. I have four of his knives and the Aogami Super Steel is the sharpest i have. The prices are reasonable compared to a knife made in the Honyaki method.
My wife asked how i was able to slice the Matsutake so thin. The only way is to use a Japanese knife of this type, a Western blade will not slice this thin.-Dick

[torakris]

I have scoured the site as well and can't find any information. I did request some free samples of their products though!
If you could post a picture it would be great otherwise I am headed off to a supermarket in a couple hours and I could look for it there and report back.

The samples I requested came in just 3 days!
Though I am just getting around to posting them now.....



These were some incredible samples, complete with recipes for each product. I have used almost all of it and am a very satisfied customer. Their tsuyu in particular was quite good.

[helenjp]

I see that the two on the center and right of your photo are "junsui dashi" which has sake but no salt or MSG in it. What were they like?

I like these teabag-style dashi products a lot.

[torakris]

I see that the two on the center and right of your photo are "junsui dashi" which has sake but no salt or MSG in it. What were they like?

I like these teabag-style dashi products a lot.

They were really good, I highly recommend any of these products. Now to find them in the stores.
Helen, If you haven't already check the website and click on the free sample banner!

[helenjp]

click on the free sample banner

I guess so...I always feel as if I'm committing robbery!

I haven't seen them in stores, and in fact thought there were fewer "teabag" style dashi products on the shelves just recently. Maybe that will change as the weather gets cooler.

[torakris]

click on the free sample banner

I guess so...I always feel as if I'm committing robbery!

I haven't seen them in stores, and in fact thought there were fewer "teabag" style dashi products on the shelves just recently. Maybe that will change as the weather gets cooler.

You are right, I think I have only seen one brand on the shelves recently, maybe it is a cold weather product..
I haven't seen these in the stores either but I haven't actively been searching them out. I am going to pay more attention and actually look for them. If I can't find them I am thinking of ordering from their website. depending on how much they are in the stores, the Choumiryo iroiro set for 1980yen (and free shipping) looks like a decent deal.

[prasantrin]

After clicking on the free sample banner, if I check the boxes next to the different products, does that mean I'm interested in them, or not interested? I couldn't really understand, so I just check them all....either they'll think I'm very greedy, or very stupid...

[torakris]

After clicking on the free sample banner, if I check the boxes next to the different products, does that mean I'm interested in them, or not interested?  I couldn't really understand, so I just check them all....either they'll think I'm very greedy, or very stupid...

Check all the ones you are interested in. I checked everything!!

[jrcrunch]

im currently using ajinomoto hon-dashi bonito

for a cup of dashi (for this brand) is 1/4 tsp of granules enough?

thanks!!!

[Hiroyuki]

im currently using ajinomoto hon-dashi bonito

for a cup of dashi (for this brand) is 1/4 tsp of granules enough?

thanks!!!

1 heaped teaspoonful of hon-dashi per 600 ml, so 1/4 tsp should be enough for one cup. (Do you mean 200 ml by "a cup" or about 250 ml?)

[jrcrunch]

1 heaped teaspoonful of hon-dashi per 600 ml, so 1/4 tsp should be enough for one cup.  (Do you mean 200 ml by "a cup" or about 250 ml?)

checked my measuring cup earlier today and it says 240 ml for 1 cup. hmm 200ml is japanese right?

ps--thank you for all the response. im very happy and learning a lot here. hope i could contribute someday.

Edited by jrcrunch, 22 March 2009 - 07:51 PM.

[Mikeydude]

Hey guys.... dunno if anyone out there is a Dashi (japanese soup base) expert, but I need some help.

I'm struggling to make Dashi, and it really doesn't help that I've never tasted what the real thing is supposed to taste like. Anyway, I use 30g Konbu and 30g of Bonito flakes in my recipe plus a little more (about 10g for secondary Dashi). Following instructions from japanese legend Tsuji I gently heat the konbu in about 1L water until soft without allowing water to boil (about 10 mins), then take it out. I then add a small cup of cold water and bring to boil. Just as it does I add my Bonito flakes and turn the fire off, allowing about 60 seconds for the flakes to start sinking to the bottom of sauce pan. I then drain to have my primary dashi. Secondary dashi is made by simmering those ingredients in 1.5L water until about a 1/3 has reduced before adding my extra 10g bonito flakes and turning off fire... again draining the soup after about 30-60 seconds.

My problem is... the secondary dashi tastes weaker than the primary... and I thought it was supposed to be the other way around ?! After all... primary is used for clear soups whilst secondary is for more rich soups / sauces ??? What am I doing wrong here? In terms of ingredients I only purchase good quality konbu and bonito flakes ... so i think it's more to do with technique. Anyone a master out there?

Thanks for the help.

[Hiroyuki]

I have the Tsuji book. It says on page 148: While primary dashi is best suited for clear soups by virtue of its fragrance, subtle taste, and clarity, secondary dashi does noble service as a basic seasoning-for thick soups, for noodle broths, as a cooking stock for vegetables, and in many other ways.

It is usually said in Japan that primary dashi is for clear soups while secondary dashi is for miso soups and nimono (simmered dishes). I have no idea what Tsuji meant by "thick soups".

Because 80-90% of the umami components of kombu and dried bonito are extracted into primary dashi, it is no wonder that secondary dashi contains much less umami components (thus, weaker) even if you add additional dried bonito.