138 replies to this topic

[McDuff]

Reinhardt Has a list in his book of weights.  But you have to remember theres a large influence on human error doing that.  I suggest going by the scale on everything, becuase atleast then if your scale is off, the ratio amongst all the ingredients will still be the same .

But still, I'll be in school in less than 4 weeks.  First thing ill do is try and retreive a list if possible.

heres a CIA recipe.

2lb 4 oz / 1.02 kg bread flour
3.5 oz / 99g sugar
1/3 oz / 10 g instant dry yeast
.8 oz / 25 g salt
30 fl oz /.9 L milk
3.5 oz / 99g butter, soft

Roll-In
1lb 4 oz buttter, cold.

follow procedures I listed above.

If by "Reinhardt" you mean "Reinhart", he specifies .11 oz for 1 tsp of instant yeast. Not scalding the milk will allow a milk protein to interfere with the yeast. You get around this by using dry milk powder dissolved in the water.

[chiantiglace]

you know I've never had a problem with bread using un-scalded milk.

[sugarseattle]

I apologize if there is already a post on this topic...Found 5 other bloggers that did a huge cross post on this croissants. Theirs came out fabulous. Mine, not so much. Anyhow...

I have been working with the Tartine recipe. I love the flavor the best. Probably from the preferment. My ideal croissant should be bubbly looking and extremely flaky, dark on the outside, tender and delicate on the inside. Flavor should be not too sweet, but nice and robust with a yeasty aroma. Instead, I've been getting greasy, sometimes too shiny flat but well flavored puckeys.

Here's the recipe:
Preferment:
6 oz nonfat milk
1T active dry yeast
6.25 oz apf
Dissolve yeast into milk. blend with flour. Let sit overnite.

Dough:
1T+1tsp active dry yeast
14 oz whole milk
28 oz apf
2.5 oz sugar
1T+1tsp salt
1T melted butter
Sprinkle yeast over preferment until blended. Add 1/2 of milk and blend until incorporated. Add dry ingredients and mix with dough hook until mass comes together into loose dough, about 3 minutes. Let rest for 20 mins. Resume mixing for 4 mins until dough is smooth and elastic. Add milk if dough gets too firm. let dough rest in cool place until rises by 1/2. punch down and roll into rectangle 2" thick. Let rest in refrigerator for 4-6 hours.

Roll-in Butter:
22 oz, cool, but pliable
Remove butter from fridge 1 hour before laminating and beat with paddle until smooth and pliable (do not whip). Chill for 1 hour before laminating.

Laminate
Roll dough to 28x12. Spread butter over 2/3 of dough. Fold into thirds. (first single fold)
Rotate dough and roll out again 28x12, Fold into thirds (second single fold). Let rest 2 hours.
Roll out again 28x12 and do the third single fold. Let rest in freezer 1 hour. Transfer dough to fridge in evening and form croissants in the am.

To form croissants, roll to 32x12. cut into triangles 4x12. Starting from wide end, roll base to tip, tucking in pointed end so the croissant will stand tall. Proof for 2-3 hours in area with high humidity (75degrees). For example, home oven, turned off with a pan of steaming water at the bottom. Refresh the water half way.

Now for my notes...
1. preferment is pretty easy to master. I'm thinking though...wonder if it's possible to try the preferment technique with another recipe?
2. dough. seems like my dough is too shaggy after only 4 minutes, so I've tried both stopping early (resulting in the dough tearing during rollout) and stopping later (resulting in the dough being too elastic and tough).
3. beurrage. seems difficult to smear the butter over the dough. perhaps it got too cold? last time I incorporated the butter using the butter envelope method, but then I think it got too soft when I did the folds. My most recent attempt, again with the envelope, I think the butter was too cold again. Also in this last attempt, I incorporated 2T flour into the butter...hopefully that will hold back some of the greasiness.
4. laminating madness. Should I expect the dough to feel smooth in the end, or should there be little lumps of butter in the dough? Even though it's lumpy, I'm seeing layers in the raw dough, but not so much when the croissants are baked off. I think I have to be careful when laminating that the dough and the butter are at the same temp. Also, it seems weird that the resting times are more than 1 hour, so perhaps the dough is getting too cold and the butter breaks up during the folds. Should I let it sit out for 30 mins before rollout, or maybe I should only let chill in the fridge 30mins? I know temperature is important, so when I move this into mini-mass production, I'll have to have a system for temperature control in place.
5. proofing. The 2 hour proofing time seems really long. First time, the proofing area was too hot so the croissants melted on the bottom. Thereafter, I got the temperature right, but the croissants seemed over-proofed after only 1 hour. Maybe this will get better if I get a proofer?
6. baking. is it normal for a bunch of butter to leak out when baking. I mean like pools of butter make the croissants seem like they're almost being fried. Recipe calls for 425, but I'm using convection so I do 400.

Thanks in advance for any help and advice.
steph

[naes]

Hi Steph

Here's some tips from my limited (but successful) croissant making experience.

Leave the butter cold, don't soften it. Cut the butter for the beurrage into four pieces. Pour out your flour onto the counter and coat each butter block in flour and pound out very flat, recoating with flour as necessary to prevent sticking to the table or the rolling pin. For that amount of butter, you'll need around 3 oz of flour. Stack the four flour-coated sheets of butter and fold them into fourths to form a block. Try to make sure the sheets are uniform size and thickness so when you fold them all together you get a beurrage that is uniform is size and shape.

Form the detrempe into a rectangle, large enough so the beurrage covers 2/3 of the dough and also large enough so there is at least a one inch margin all around. Fold the top 1/3 down to the middle and the bottom 1/3 up to the middle (like an envelope).

Turn the dough counter-clockwise and roll into a rectangle. Follow this by two double turns (rotating counter-clockwise each time).

Rest the dough for at least 4 hours or overnight.

Good luck!
Sean

[rickster]

I don't know if I have any advice, but I will say that I have been on the search for great croissant recipes for years. The Tartine one gave me terrific results. I only made it once so maybe it was luck but I wouldn't give up on it.

My only thoughts are: There shouldn't be lumps of butter, although I have seen a sort of fractured pattern in the lamination, and it does sound like the proofing might be too long or at too high a temperature. I vastly improved my breadmaking by proofing for 1-1 1/2 hrs. vs. the 2 normally recommended and I do not have a hot kitchen. While I do get some butter oozing out, it's not like the croissants are frying.

[AGM Cape Cod]

We are having a brunch for my parent's 60th anniversary and I thought it was an occasion worthy of homemade croissants. It has been many years since I made any and don't remember what recipe I used. Any advice? TIA

[alanamoana]

just off the cuff, i'd say to use the "baking with julia" recipe as it is probably easy to understand is will be accompanied with photographs.

[BekkiM]

I use Pastries from the LaBrea Bakery for mine and they've turned out well every time. And my Baba A Louis (sp?) cookbook, from Vermont's greatest bakery, suggests slicing the butter into 1/2 pieces and laying them out like a mosaic, rather than trying to beat down a big hunk of butter--not very authentic, I'm sure, but I've had luck with this method in that I haven't had butter oozing out through the dough, yet I've turned out rather impressive croissants, if I do say so myself.

[violette]

I'm new to making croissants and I have been trying different types of butter; that is, 80%, 82% and 85% butterfat content while keeping the rest of the recipe constant. I haven't tried the 85% yet, but the 82% croissants tasted a little bit saltier that the 80% croissants. Is it necessary to adjust the amount of salt due to the decrease in water content in the butter? (or any other component for that matter).

[alanamoana]

I'm new to making croissants and I have been trying different types of butter; that is, 80%, 82% and 85% butterfat content while keeping the rest of the recipe constant. I haven't tried the 85% yet, but the 82% croissants tasted a little bit saltier that the 80% croissants.  Is it necessary to adjust the amount of salt due to the decrease in water content in the butter? (or any other component for that matter).

that would depend on whether you're using salted butter or not. most professional recipes use unsalted butter.

[sugarseattle]

Finally, beautiful croissants! Just thought I'd post photos of my croissants reheating the next day.

I finally was able to achieve the nice crust, super flavor, and nice layers. Still having a bit of an issue with butter leakage, but I think that will probably go away in time. I think the butter leaking is due to the butter cracking slightly during the rollout, so I'm going to try to be more conscious of butter temperature during the last fold...perhaps not leave it in the fridge as long.

I"m excited to have the nice outside texture...which I'm pretty impressed with because I don't have a proofer! I just sprinkle a little water on the top during proofing and then egg wash before baking.

[John DePaula]

Finally, beautiful croissants! Just thought I'd post photos of my croissants reheating the next day.

I finally was able to achieve the nice crust, super flavor, and nice layers. Still having a bit of an issue with butter leakage, but I think that will probably go away in time. I think the butter leaking is due to the butter cracking slightly during the rollout, so I'm going to try to be more conscious of butter temperature during the last fold...perhaps not leave it in the fridge as long.

I"m excited to have the nice outside texture...which I'm pretty impressed with because I don't have a proofer! I just sprinkle a little water on the top during proofing and then egg wash before baking.

Those look pretty delicious and flaky! Bravo!

By the way, do you soften the butter a bit, prior to folding with the detrempe, by battering it with the rolling pin? This softens the butter, makes it more malleable; that might help prevent it cracking when you roll it out.

[sugarseattle]

i have been so far softening with my fingers, almost massaging it over the dough, but I think when i get into more large scale production, I'll do that over a parchment lined sheet pan, and then flip it over onto the dough to begin the folds. I just sold my sheeter, but i think it's totally possible without it...I am not afraid ;)

Edited by sugarseattle, 16 March 2008 - 07:25 PM.

[John DePaula]

i have been so far softening with my fingers, almost massaging it over the dough, but I think when i get into more large scale production, I'll do that over a parchment lined sheet pan, and then flip it over onto the dough to begin the folds. I just sold my sheeter, but i think it's totally possible without it...I am not afraid ;)

The disadvantage with using your fingers, besides being hard on your fingers , is that it may warm up the butter too much.

I kind of batter the butter as evenly as possible with the french style rolling pin, then rotate 90 degrees and do it again. Makes it nice and malleable without warming it up.

HTH.

[gfron1]

I haven't made croissants in ages (probably 15 years), but I've been having the urge to do some fundamentals baking lately. I made a few croissants and a few pain au chocolate. Thanks to this topic I made sure they were well baked!



There's more chocolate in there than the picture shows!

[alanamoana]

gorgeous rob, just beautiful!

[Chris Hennes]

Is that just an egg wash on there? When I first glanced at the photo it looked like a caramel coating!

[gfron1]

Oooh yum...caramel coating - great idea! But alas, just a yolk heavy wash. And thanks Alana.

[pastrygirl]

This is all quite interesting. The recipe we use requires kneading the dough for far longer than I am patient with, you need to get a really nice window. After a good rest it rolls out fine though.

Currently, we do four single turns (folding in three). Is there any good reason not to do three double turns (fold in four) instead? Wouldn't you get the same number of layers with less time and effort? I don't mind doing it the hard way if there's a reason, but I also want it to not take all day.

[alanamoana]

This is all quite interesting.  The recipe we use requires kneading the dough for far longer than I am patient with, you need to get a really nice window.  After a good rest it rolls out fine though.

Currently, we do four single turns (folding in three).  Is there any good reason not to do three double turns (fold in four) instead?  Wouldn't you get the same number of layers with less time and effort?  I don't mind doing it the hard way if there's a reason, but I also want it to not take all day.

different books have different rolling techniques (number of turns, single, double, etc...), but here's my take on it:

when making double turns (book fold), you need to roll the dough out a bit thinner in order to execute the turn well. after folding, the dough shouldn't be too thick that you have a hard time rolling it out the next time after the rest. also, because it is a yeasted dough, it can't be too thick or it won't cool down during the rest and you risk over proofing or exhausting your yeast before you're done with the turns. because it is a laminated dough, rolling very thin can be an issue because you can get tearing, etc. within the layers and you end up without the great flakiness that defines a good croissant.

that's just my two cents, but i'm sure you could do two single turns and one double turn which would save you time and probably not ruin your dough.

Edited by alanamoana, 25 April 2008 - 07:00 PM.

[pastrygirl]

Alanamoana, that makes sense, in this case the shortcut sounds risky. That's OK, my staff does all the rolling anyway!

[sugarseattle]

that's funny, we've been doing 3 single turns and our croissants seem fabulous...I wonder if we should add another turn?

[alanamoana]

that's funny, we've been doing 3 single turns and our croissants seem fabulous...I wonder if we should add another turn?

i'm sure they're fine! from what i understand, croissant and danish dough is pretty forgiving and different books will describe different methods. the trick is to read the dough and see how many turns it can take without destroying the layers. that's really the only limitation.

[rickster]

I made the Tartine croissant recipe a couple of weeks ago and had a fair amount of butter leakage during baking, which prompts what may be a dumb question. No matter what specific technique you use to incorporate the butter, you eventually cut through the laminated layers when you form the croissants, so why doesn't every recipe end up with puddles of butter (this would be true for puff pastry as well)? Seems to me the butter leakage might be more related to proofing or baking temperature.

[alanamoana]

I made the Tartine croissant recipe a couple of weeks ago and had a fair amount of butter leakage during baking, which prompts what may be a dumb question. No matter what specific technique you use to incorporate the butter, you eventually cut through the laminated layers when you form the croissants, so why doesn't every recipe end up with puddles of butter (this would be true for puff pastry as well)? Seems to me the butter leakage might be more related to proofing or baking temperature.

you answered your own question.

leakage is usually due to proofing at too high a temp and baking at too low a temp

[rickster]

Thanks!

[sugarseattle]

that makes perfect sense about the leakage...

I am wondering, though, since we can't purchase a proofer right now, whether it would be a good idea to proof the little suckers in the fridge overnite so it's nice and cool for them???

Right now our schedule is:
day 1 preferment which lives in the fridge overnite
day 2 dough and turns which live in fridge overnite
day 3 rollout and forming, proof on rack while spritzing with water, then baking

so I'm thinking I would switch to doing rollout and forming on day 2. The only hard part is what do do since we're closed sunday.

i'm so excited to be getting to the bottom of this croissant mystery.

A customer gave me a hug today he enjoyed the croissant to much! Wow!

[pastrygirl]

I made the Tartine croissant recipe a couple of weeks ago and had a fair amount of butter leakage during baking, which prompts what may be a dumb question. No matter what specific technique you use to incorporate the butter, you eventually cut through the laminated layers when you form the croissants, so why doesn't every recipe end up with puddles of butter (this would be true for puff pastry as well)? Seems to me the butter leakage might be more related to proofing or baking temperature.

The croissants I've had from Tartine (at their shop in SF) are very, very buttery, to the point of challenging the idea that there is no such thing as too much butter. So, if the recipe in the book is true to the original, the extra butter might make them a little more challenging to work with.

[schneich]

hi,

we are in the process of developing our croissant formula. the outside is nice and puffy, dark golden brown, and they taste very good, just like in france. our pains au chocolat are equipped with two 7.5 gram valrhona chocolate batons :-P . our only problem is that the internal texture is a little bit too spongy, and in some croissants the inside is kind of collapsed to a dense mass, leaving a large void. what could we do wrong... ??


cheers


t.

[gfron1]

Note to self - don't proof the croissants in the top oven while baking in the bottom oven. You end up with hideous butter flour blobs