43 replies to this topic

[davidthomas8779]

Is there a good web page or other online resource with information regarding appliances? I'm considering buying a new freestanding gas range (sick of dealing with electric) and would like to obsessively research them before I buy them.

[GordonCooks]

If your thinking of commercial (or similiar) - install a gas line of sufficient diameter.

[Ron Johnson]

For excellent gas ranges made for the home look at DCS. clickety

[Stone]

Find out what Fat Guy has. I'm certain he did obsessive research before purchasing, and I'm sure his conclusion was correct.

[ngatti]

Actually Jason and Rachel are a coupla good go-to people for this one. Holly Moore looks to have a pretty smokin' home setup also.

Nick

[DRColby]

I to am grappling with this topic . I am trying to decide what to do in replacing an old Hobbs electric. is there that much difference between a Wolf or DCS and a top of the line Kitchenaid? Looks to me like the big advances are in the ovens and the nice feature of cooking quicker with gas, why spend all the extra bucks for a "show" stove?
Any guidance and direction would be greatly appreciated.

dave

[fifi]

Check out the GE Monogram line. It hit me right due to price/features. The small oven can be used to proof bread or make yoghurt. Availability of service was another consideration.

[Keba]

Personally I have a GE Profile (came with the house) which functions well but is very difficult to clean due to the configuration of the burners. I never had the opportunity to compare diffferences between the top end models but the cleaning thing drives me crazy. Just something to consider when shopping.

Keba

Oven

[Fat Guy]

is there that much difference between a Wolf  or DCS and a top of the line Kitchenaid?

Between Wolf and DCS the major difference is price -- an equivalent DCS model is a lot cheaper that a Wolf but provides almost all the functionality. A top-of-the-line KitchenAid is not going to be as powerful as either the Wolf or the DCS.

The KitchenAid Architect-series range in say a 30" size will give you two burners at 6,000 BTU/hr (not particularly useful), one at 12,500 (good), and one at 14,000 (better). A DCS in the same size has 5 burners, with the four weakest burners running at 16,000 each and the center burner running at 17,500, which is good enough to do pretty much anything except serious wok cookery (there is no residential range that can really power a wok the way a Chinese-restaurant burner does). A four-burner Wolf (which is now part of Sub Zero on the residential side, I think) also has 16,000 on the burners. These higher numbers aren't just useful when you want to sear a steak; they also make a big difference when you're just boiling a big pot of water.

There are differences in construction as well. The KitchenAid looks and feels like a residential stove, whereas the DCS and Wolf units have more of a commercial feel in terms of sturdiness and controls. They're not real restaurant stoves, but they're decent substitutes.

[Jason Perlow]

If I had to redo my kitchen again I would get a DCS. The reason being it is the only company left which makes residential stoves that also makes them for commercial. Garland, DCS and Wolf Range used to be the companies that did that, but now Garland and Wolf Range ONLY make commercial. The current incarnation of Wolf that makes for residential is a company owned by Subzero which never made commercial ranges. The OTHER Wolf Range company is a totally separate entity from Subzero. Viking also has never made commercial equipment.

I have also heard Dynasty makes good ranges too.

The GE Monogram Series in stainless is made by DCS, its basically the same exact range.

[fifi]

Well, I'll be damned. I didn't know DCS made the Monogram. That explains the similarities. Learn something every day.

[melkor]

If I had to redo my kitchen again I would get a DCS. The reason being it is the only company left which makes residential stoves that also makes them for commercial.

Does anyone know anything about Imperial? They seem to make both residential and commercial ranges. The range I've been looking at is here but I haven't found anyone who has one or has at least cooked on one.

[Jason Perlow]

If I had to redo my kitchen again I would get a DCS. The reason being it is the only company left which makes residential stoves that also makes them for commercial.

Does anyone know anything about Imperial? They seem to make both residential and commercial ranges. The range I've been looking at is here but I haven't found anyone who has one or has at least cooked on one.

It certainly looks impressive.

[Fat Guy]

The problem with GE Monogram is that you can't get the latest DCS models -- the most up-to-date models they offer in Monogram are now something like two years behind what you'd get from DCS. So, for example, they don't have the 5-burner 30" model available in GE Monogram, and the GE burners are the old 15,000 BTU/hr burners instead of the newer, slightly more powerful ones in the 5-burner configuration.

I don't know anybody with an Imperial range, so that alone would be enough to give me pause. It's a relatively new company, especially on the residential scene, and I don't like being a guinea pig. The reason I got a DCS is that I had seen DCS equipment in a number of restaurants and I knew that chefs I respected had chosen the DCS home models for their homes. Gray Kunz has two of them in his house upstate, for example. Another important issue is service: you want a company that can provide repair service in your area. All these ranges will work well . . . until they break. That's when the brands really start to differentiate themselves.

I've had a DCS range for several years now, and I've had professional chefs in my home really kicking the crap out of it -- using it the way chefs use ranges in restaurants: all burners on full, crashing pots and pans on the burners, slamming the oven door, spilling stuff all over it, etc. It makes me wince to watch my beloved stove get abused that way. But so far I've never had a malfunction. There's one burner that takes a few too many ignition-sparks to light, but I have a feeling that's just because I haven't cleaned it well. All in all, I stand by the product.

[Jason Perlow]

Steven although the GE Monogram ranges are like 2 years behind DCS's latest offerings, they are still really good units and you gotta admit, if you live out in the boonies, chances are it will be a lot easier to get a GE serviceperson out there than a contractor authorized to service a DCS. So if I didnt live in a major metropolitan area I would probably go for a Monogram.

[theakston]

Find out what Fat Guy has.  I'm certain he did obsessive research before purchasing, and I'm sure his conclusion was correct.

Was Thermador included in the obsessive research? What was the verdict?

[Fat Guy]

I don't know what current pricing is, but when I was shopping for these things the Thermador prices were up near $3,500 for essentially the same product-configuration I got from DCS for $2,000. Like the Viking, Wolf, Garland, etc., units the Thermador looked nice, but there wasn't anything about it that seemed to justify the massive price differential. The burners have an interesting shape similar to those of the Garland stove -- a star shape rather than concentric circles -- but I can't imagine it makes much of a difference.

[Schielke]

I am not really in the market right now, but that 5 burner DCS looks sweet. A brief search on the net only yielded a price of about 3800 bucks. This seems high, is there a better place to look?

Ben

[Fat Guy]

U.S. Appliance usually has some of the better online prices. They have the DCS 5-burner range in gas for $2995. I'm sure you can get it cheaper through a discount appliance retailer, though -- there's always room for negotiation. Also it's always worth trying to buy the previous year's models as soon as the new ones come out. I forget during which month that happens. If your appliance retailer has a showroom, you can do even better by purchasing the display model. My brother-in-law picked up a DCS range last year for about $1600 that way.

http://www.us-applia...m/noname48.html

[Bux]

In about 1972 or so, an industrial grey Vulcan had open top burners of 15,000 BTU each. The oven burner was capable of 35,000 BTU and there were three broiler burners of 10,000 BTU under a ceramic broiler/salamander which also ensured even heat for the 24 inch griddle plate. I don't know what was available in a residential model back then, but a distinguishing feature on this stove was that in three linear feet, one could sit six one food diameter pots comfortably. It was also thirty inches deep counting the gas manifold in back, but not counting handles or projections in front.

[Schielke]

Wolf on ebay

3 days left and still pretty low. Not many bids. This could turn out to be a good deal.

Sadly, I dont have room for it.

[Fat Guy]

I doubt the reserve is less than a couple of thousand. But the issue with a restaurant stove is that the building codes almost everywhere in America now forbid installation of restaurant stoves in residences -- or at least they require all sorts of specialized insulation, ventilation, and fire suppression. It's not just a question of ducking the codes, either -- your insurance company might refuse to pay out if an illegally installed range causes a fire. The Perlows looked into what has to be done in order to put one of those things in a house in New Jersey, and concluded it was essentially impossible.

[Jason Perlow]

I am not really in the market right now, but that 5 burner DCS looks sweet.  A brief search on the net only yielded a price of about 3800 bucks.  This seems high, is there a better place to look?

Ben

Beleive it or not Home Depot's Expo stores have good prices, provided you buy a whole bunch of stuff from them if you use them to redo your kitchen. You're gonna need a decent range hood for that puppy too, so you will want to factor that into your costs.

[Schielke]

There is no reserve on this item, but you are right about the building codes. Those things get wicked hot.

[DRColby]

There was an article a year or so ago in the New Yorker on the company that builds oneof the high end stoves in Mississippi -beliieve it was Viking - and how they targeted the home market. Mainly because mostly people nearly burn their houses down when they imstalled commercial ranges with unregulated gas flows, they started building home units. They marketed the product by getting it on the cooking shows. Naturally everyone wanted one as a "showpiece," but few of buyers knew much about cooking. I guess the founder's mission is now to teach people how to cook. What ever happen to home ec?

dave

[Nick]

Just checked out the Wolf at Ebay. Bid is at $720 but I imagine will get run up in the last hours. No reserve.

When I was checking out ranges last year (still haven't bought one), Wolf was having problems and had what seemed to be a big recall on them. I can't remember the details but it was enough to make me shy away from them in the future. A significant safety issue as I remember. About the same time Viking was getting in the news for customer unhappiness.

I'm still leaning toward a Peerless which is not known for its great cooking abilities, but which works well with solar electric systems (which I have) and which also works during power outages - including the oven.

I called the factory and talked with an older gentleman (it's an old company) about their ranges. I mentioned the recall Wolf was having and asked him if Peerless had had any recalls. He replied, "We're a small company. We can't afford to have recalls." He was a quiet person with no hype and I said I thought I might get one of his ranges. He said simply and quietly, "I think you'll be happy with it."

[davidthomas8779]

If anyone is keeping score, I ended up buying this oven GE Profile Performance Spectra 30 in. Free-Standing Sealed Burner Convection Gas Range JGB920 ( http://www.epinions....as_Range_JGB920 ) because I got a deal I couldn't refuse ($900 for a perfect condition open box model (black on black). I almost bought the 30" DCS (for $1200 more) but didn't like the size of the oven (it was a little bit small) even though the range had some superior features. My wife and I decided that our next stove is going to be the 48" DCS.

Edited by davidthomas8779, 20 May 2003 - 03:53 PM.

[Schielke]

Also if you were keeping score on the Wolf, it went for 1700 US.

Not too shabby.

Ben

[DRColby]

Please correct me if I am wrong - or at least comment. As of now I am "in love" with a Dacor 30" gas slid in range with convection electric over at about two grand. Pros and cons? I have a microwave over my electric stove and if I put a hood in would have to give up the micro wave as counter space is short. Besides I burn enough without all those extra BTUs of a near-commerical range.

dave

[Alberts]

In regard to the DCS stove, we just purchased the 5 burner cooktop for our new kitchen and are loving it. We bought it for the 17500 BTU center burner. The other ones are hot enough for searing, etc.

The real advantage of the middle burner is for boiling water. A large pot of water comes to a boil in a few minutes and it returns to a boil after adding pasta almost instantly.

The burner on high will cause any pot other than a heavy duty one to assume shapes suitable only for frat house kitchens.