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The Kimchi Topic


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#91 Philanthrophobe

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Posted 16 February 2006 - 06:03 PM

Kimchi recipe and a few others

You won't find another source online or in English who knows as much about Korean culture and cuisine :wink:

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Wonderful!! Thanks for the link...great photos, too!
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#92 helenjp

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Posted 16 February 2006 - 07:23 PM

Yes, yes, great link! There's SO much to read there, so many answers to questions that have lain for years in the back of my mind!

Jeniac, this is the recipe that I use, form a Japanese book written by a Korean woman - it's by far the most detailed Korean cookbook I own. I've made it without the squid, as my kimchi-loving husband wasn't too keen on the idea in our warmer southern climate. At time I couldn't find fermented krill paste locally either, and the original recipe shows some signs of simplification, but even so, it has a much fuller taste than the average bought kimchi, and isn't hard to make if you have made pickles. However, if you don't use the squid or the fermented krill, you should add a little more salt - about 1 tab.

Chinese-cabbage Kimchi
4 kg chinese cabbage (hakusai in Japanese)
300ml coarse pickling salt
1.5kg giant radish (daikon in Japanese)
6 tab chili powder (get it from a Korean grocery - the average grocery stuff has no taste)
1 regular onion
1 bunch water celery (oenanthe javanica, seri in Japanese, don't know what it is in Korean)
1 squid
1 tab Korean fish sauce (or Japanese shottsuru, Thai nam pla etc if you absolutely can't find the Korean one)
MIX A: 2.5 tabs finely grated garlic, 1.5 tabs finely grated ginger root, 2 long onions finely shredded (naga-negi in Japanese), 5 tabs chili powder (medium grind, I think), 1/3 c of fermented krill or other fermented seafood paste, 1/3 cup Korean fish sauce, 2.5 tab salt, 30g tiny dried shrimp (the flat pink papery ones called "sakura-ebi in Japanese" ), 2 tab sugar
200 ml Japanese dashi stock (Make this from katsuo flakes and konbu)
1 tsp coarse pickling salt.

Prepare cabbage: Make a deep cross-cut in the root end of the cabbages. Pull apart with your hands. Make another cut and pull in half again if the pieces are really huge. Put to soak in 10 cups of water with 1 cup of the measured salt dissolved in it. Rub the remaining half cup into the thickest white stem portions. Weight so that the cabbage is completely underwater, cover lightly, and leave overnight. Next day, drain, pull off the toughest outer leaf or two on each chunk, and set aside.

Radish and squid: Wash the radish, cut into 2-3 inch lengths, slice and shred...or use a coarse grater. Sprinkle over the 6 tab chili powder. Add the finely shredded regular onion, the water celery (trim roots, cut into 2 inch lengths). Use a big bowl.
Separately, gut squid, peel membrane, remove quill, and cut into shreds, pour the 1 tab fish sauce over.

To complete: Mix all A ingredients into radish. Add onion and squid.
Take chinese cabbage, and stuff the mixture between each leaf (without separating from the base, though it's not too crucial). Make sure there is no air trapped. Place into clean container, and pack down firmly. Pack the rough outer leaves on the top.
Combine liquid remaining in bowl of stuffing ingredients with the dashi stock, add salt (more if you didn't use the fermented krill paste), pour over. I then cover the surface with plastic wrap, forcing out bubbles, weight with a clean, rustproof weight, and tie a clean cloth over the top plus a loose plastic bag.
Now place in a cool place with even temperatures - ideally, about 45degF, 7-8degC for 5-6 days. Take out 1-2 bunches to serve and keep in the fridge, replace the outer leaves and coverings (clean if necessary).
Serious kimchi makers have a "kimchi fridge" - a small beer fridge in the garage, for example. This allows them to make kimchi year round, but really, fall or winter is the best time. One reason why people add a tiny amount of sugar is that unless you are using chinese cabbage harvested after the frost, it won't be as sweet.

#93 twobrain

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Posted 03 April 2006 - 07:19 PM

The general stereotype of Japanese kimuchi in Korea is that it has sugar
in it (!) and lacks both garlic and chili. 

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Horrors! What would be the point? ;)

Actually in surfing the internet I've found many, many Korean recipes for kimchi that include some sugar. I've never used it when I make my own though.

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when you let the kimchee ferment, youre letting the lactic acid producing bacteria thats found on the cabbage break down the starch/sugars in the cabbage, adding sugar gives the bacteria a little help... a head start on reproducing

kimchee and sauerkraut are suppose to be good for you cause
1. theyve broken down the vitamins/minerals for you, making it easier to absorb
2. maintains proper colonization of the gut

mmm kimchee protects chickens from avian flu

didnt use this as a reference... but wiki is awesome http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kimchee

Edited by twobrain, 03 April 2006 - 07:23 PM.


#94 melonpan

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Posted 07 April 2006 - 12:32 AM

today i am really missing moms crispy bubbly sweet bosam.

*sniff*

i should give her a call today
"Bibimbap shappdy wappdy wap." - Jinmyo

#95 _john

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Posted 10 April 2006 - 10:32 AM

I am proud to present my ゴーヤーキムチ goya kimchi! This kimchi of bitter melon, also known as bitter gourd, and a lot of other names, including the Japanese name Goya, was prepared in the same way as every other kimchi except for the fact that I blanched the goya after salting. I love bitter melon, so I thought why not make kimchi of it? I prepared it tonight so it hasn't fermented yet, but when I get back from Korea in two weeks it should be just right. Does anyone know the name for bitter melon in Korean? I couldn't seem to figure it out.

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#96 torakris

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Posted 10 April 2006 - 03:07 PM

I have no idea of what bitter melon is called in Korean, but John that looks incredible!
Defintely share the recipe when you get back and enjoy your trip!

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#97 Pan

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Posted 10 April 2006 - 11:58 PM

Yeah, that really is beautiful! It's odd: I think kimchi somehow is one of the things I shouldn't like, but I've liked it since the first time I had some in Seoul at the age of 10. I would definitely try that bitter melon kimchi, as I, too, like bitter melon.

#98 melonpan

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Posted 11 April 2006 - 01:03 AM

i dont know if this is true of other koreans, but i know that i have never had bitter melon in a korean context. and hubby hasnt either. dont know the korean name for it either. this does not mean that there isnt a korean name for it, but i dont know of any... i tried looking up goya in korean to see if sites would type up the korean name in parentheses, but <a href="http://www.google.co...sa=N&tab=iw">no luck</a> (just a lot of hits about the artist goya). there were some hits for <a href="http://www.google.co...ch">goyacha</a>, bitter gourd tea, but not that many. if any one knows the korean name, i would also be interested to know.
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#99 melonpan

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Posted 11 April 2006 - 01:05 AM

that being said i think it sounds delicious, goyakimchi.

i love goya as it is. i dont know why it is not more popular with the korean polks.
"Bibimbap shappdy wappdy wap." - Jinmyo

#100 _john

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Posted 11 April 2006 - 02:30 AM

After a little linguistic hunt and peck I have come up with this: bitter cucumber in Korean is 쓴오이 ssoon oi. this receives 97,000 results on google where you can see pictures of goya. further research leads me to believe this is not the only way to say it in Korean, but someone might know what you are saying if you said this. Maybe I will bring some to the okinawan restaurant near my apartment when it is finished. My area has a very large concentration of Koreans so it would be the perfect fusion!

#101 SheenaGreena

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Posted 18 April 2006 - 09:24 AM

My favorite definitely has to be ponytail radish kimchi (Ch'ongak kimchi) . I like it better than Ggaktugi because I love eating the radish tops.

Other favorites include a mul kimchi made with purple cabbage (my favorite growing up) and my mom's signature garlic chive kimchi with lots of fish sauce.

The wonderful thing about kimchi is that it can be made with ANYTHING. My mother's korean friend even makes a papaya kimchi which is really really good. I bet even watermelon rinds would be good in a kimchi!!!
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#102 _john

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Posted 19 April 2006 - 01:11 AM

The wonderful thing about kimchi is that it can be made with ANYTHING.  My mother's korean friend even makes a papaya kimchi which is really really good.  I bet even watermelon rinds would be good in a kimchi!!!

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This is one of my favorite things about kimchi too. kimchi and bbanchan are wonderfully creative things. Radish leaf kimchi is especially delicious. I will be posting some new experiments soon ... with fruit! The goya kimchi is coming along well, the flavor is very nice, bitter, hot, sweet.

I would like some advice from other people who make kimchi at home. My kimchis seem to become more and more watery as they ferment. This seems to dilute the flavor but also spreads the lactic acid flavor. Other kimchis I have had have not been nearly as watery. Am I adding too much salt?

#103 melonpan

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Posted 19 April 2006 - 01:59 AM

i dont make kimchi, but i think that watery is good. and sour is good.

you want watery tangy gukmul (kimchi water).

i feel that if you work on preventing it, you arent making kimchi.
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#104 melonpan

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Posted 19 April 2006 - 02:01 AM

again, ill say that i dont make kimchi, but i wanted to ask, when you taste the kimchi that you are making, does it taste salty? it shouldnt be overly salty. if it doesnt taste salty then maybe it is something else you need to tweak to make it turn out the way you want.
"Bibimbap shappdy wappdy wap." - Jinmyo

#105 jschyun

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Posted 19 April 2006 - 07:50 AM

I know what he's talking about. This happens with beginner kimchi makers who don't have someone to guide them. I remember I had one batch turn out exceptionally watery. Hmm, all I can say is just keep practicing because you'll get better. If I get a chance to make some kimchi in the future (not now) maybe I'll have smoe more helpful advice cause right now my brain is fried.
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#106 SheenaGreena

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Posted 19 April 2006 - 11:06 AM

I would like some advice from other people who make kimchi at home. My kimchis seem to become more and more watery as they ferment. This seems to dilute the flavor but also spreads the lactic acid flavor. Other kimchis I have had have not been nearly as watery. Am I adding too much salt?


After you heavily salt the veggies/fruit are you rinsing off as much salt as possible? Maybe it would help to delicately squeeze them with your hands or a hand towel.
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#107 jschyun

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Posted 19 April 2006 - 09:46 PM

Wait, which kimchi are you having trouble with? My problem was with kkagtugi for some reason and I fixed it somehow but I'm not sure if it's because i changed the recipe or because I just got better.
I love cold Dinty Moore beef stew. It is like dog food! And I am like a dog.
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#108 _john

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Posted 20 April 2006 - 08:11 AM

Both my green onion kimchi and bitter melon kimchi were fine for about a week but then they became watery. Because I make small batches I usually do not follow a recipe, I just follow the kimchi "procedure".

This has reminded me of a second question. Which kimchis do you use fermented fish products in? I have seen small fermented shrimp used in regular cabbage kimchi, but not in others. Other recipes I have seen call for "fish sauce". I have never used these ingredients in my kimchis and they have tasted fine.

#109 SheenaGreena

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Posted 22 April 2006 - 07:06 PM

This has reminded me of a second question. Which kimchis do you use fermented fish products in? I have seen small fermented shrimp used in regular cabbage kimchi, but not in others. Other recipes I have seen call for "fish sauce". I have never used these ingredients in my kimchis and they have tasted fine.


That is a good question, and to be honest with you I have no clue! I love kimchis with fish sauce in them though. I think it adds a really nice round and complex flavor. Vietnamese fish sauce - I believe the 3 crabs brand - is great in garlic chive kimchi
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#110 melonpan

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Posted 22 April 2006 - 09:18 PM

koreans dont really use a fish sauce that is like vietnamese fish sauce. rather they use something called jeot which can be made from a number of things, but usually from shrimps or oysters that are brined (sae-u jeot and gul-jeot)... i have also seen squids added to kimchi although i do not think it was in a jeot form but i could be wrong on that particular point.

maybe jschyun knows a bit better than i do about this stuff.

still, the point is, that the fish sauce used its not a liquidy thing like nuoc nam or nam pla. you can actually see whole (baby) shrimps and oysters.

that is not to say that nuoc nam wouldnt work. im sure it must have been tried in the past. i wonder how it tasted. sheena greena do you make it often with nuoc nam? do you often cook korean food with nuoc nam? i made a search and see that sometimes people make jjigae with it... interesting. but new to me.
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#111 chefzadi

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Posted 22 April 2006 - 09:20 PM

My MIL brought a fish sauce from the country with her. It is pretty thick and did not have little fish or seafood things in it. It's not a common thing, the consistency is different, but fish sauce does exist in Korean cooking.
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#112 melonpan

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Posted 22 April 2006 - 09:26 PM

My MIL brought a fish sauce from the country with her. It is pretty thick and did not have little fish or seafood things in it. It's not a common thing, the consistency is different, but fish sauce does exist in Korean cooking.

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wah, really? is it dark? is it pungent? can you describe how it tastes? how do you use it? in kimchi? jjigae?
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#113 SheenaGreena

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Posted 22 April 2006 - 09:31 PM

melonpan, I barely cook any Korean food...its just too intimidating. I just love eating it and talking about it. My mother started using vietnamese fish sauce in only the garlic chive kimchi a year or two ago. I don't know what made her use it because she knows nothing about vietnamese food. You are right about the small shrimps. She usually uses that in her cabbage kimchi

I guess the vietnamese fish sauce is an multi cultural adaptation to kimchi
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#114 chefzadi

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Posted 23 April 2006 - 10:40 AM

My MIL brought a fish sauce from the country with her. It is pretty thick and did not have little fish or seafood things in it. It's not a common thing, the consistency is different, but fish sauce does exist in Korean cooking.

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wah, really? is it dark? is it pungent? can you describe how it tastes? how do you use it? in kimchi? jjigae?

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There's some post here by touaregsand about it. She has some photo of it somewhere. I can't find it.
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#115 Soup

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Posted 23 April 2006 - 02:33 PM

As stated previously by others, the fish "sauce" is very different for the korean version used in kimchi and the viet. or thai version.

I love kimchi and my 4 year old has really taken to it. we do wash some in for him in waters others we serve straight. My fav. actually changes from season to season and also depends on the meal. Now I do not keep more than 2 type of kimchi in the house. We don't have a kimchi refridgerator nor do we go through it fast enough so two variety is all about the max. I do however, rotate on the ones I buy (I don't make kimchi, other than mul kimchi which I still suck at).

I do really love the kimchi made with oyster jut though. Shrimp jut also gives kimchi a different flavor. And finding hunks of raw oysters between kimchi, well thats just the cherry on top.

#116 chefzadi

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Posted 23 April 2006 - 05:01 PM

Um, this is what I'm talking about Korean fish sauce called ack-jeot .

I just had the wife verify again to be sure. It is indeed filtered, does not have bits of fish in it and MIL says it is like the better homemade fish sauces from Southeast Asia.

EDIT: The link is to something by Ewha Women's University and it states that fish sauce is traditional for kimchi and it is indeed clarified.

Edited by chefzadi, 23 April 2006 - 05:22 PM.

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#117 jschyun

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Posted 23 April 2006 - 06:31 PM

Yeah my mom uses kkanari aekjut (fermented lancefish sauce) for some kimchis. Actually is very similar to nuoc mam in every respect except it smells worse. I never have tried using it though but my mom's kimchi is awesome so I suppose I should get my ass in gear and start using it cause I've only ever tried oysters and seujeot (brined shirmp) and my kimchi is alright but not as good.

Skchai had a good recipe that required no fermented fish products. I don't remember where it is though, argh.

As for the wateriness problem, I started thinking about my kimchi problems and I have no idea why it would happen with the green onion kimchi but it could be that goya, like cucumbers, is mostly water. Thus, maybe if you stufed the goya as in stuffed cucumber kimchi, there's less surface area and it won't get watery as easily over time. It's only an issue if you don't eat it right away, right? Also, I make sure that after washing I dry my veggies pretty throoughly but i'm sure you're doing that. I could be wrong but I don't think adding a slurry would answer your probs because that just adds more water. Not sure if that helps but good luck anyhow.
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#118 melonpan

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Posted 23 April 2006 - 06:48 PM

hmm. okay. found something. just hadn't crossed paths with it yet.

"aeg-jeos" or aekjeot

<a href="http://www.google.com/search?q=%EC%95%A1%EC%A0%93&svnum=10&hl=en&lr=&sa=N&tab=iw">액젓</a>, <a href="http://www.well-bein...e/0283.gif">pic of anchovy aekjeot</a> and <a href="http://img.emart.co....0_b.jpg">shrimp aekjeot</a>

maybe it is the same stuff as regular jeot but just strained, clarified? not much different than jeot?
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#119 jschyun

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Posted 23 April 2006 - 06:59 PM

pretty much the same, definitely same function in kimchi.

I like the brined shimp on eggs tho. I also have a hard time with oysters cause i love those fried and raw.

Edited by jschyun, 23 April 2006 - 07:09 PM.

I love cold Dinty Moore beef stew. It is like dog food! And I am like a dog.
--NeroW

#120 chefzadi

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Posted 23 April 2006 - 08:41 PM

hmm.  okay.  found something.  just hadn't crossed paths with it yet.

"aeg-jeos" or aekjeot

<a href="http://www.google.com/search?q=%EC%95%A1%EC%A0%93&svnum=10&hl=en&lr=&sa=N&tab=iw">액젓</a>, <a href="http://www.well-bein...e/0283.gif">pic of anchovy aekjeot</a> and <a href="http://img.emart.co....0_b.jpg">shrimp aekjeot</a>

maybe it is the same stuff as regular jeot but just strained, clarified?  not much different than jeot?

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MIL says "yeh nal, yeh nal eh" (however you transliterate that) it just wasn't that common, so yeah, it's possible that some people just don't know about it according to her. I don't really have the time to post her lenghty description of how it's made, sorry.

She says it's the best for kimchi as far as she's concerned. And she does it use it to season soups and stews too.

As for commercial brands, get this, she prefers the three crabs brand to the Korean brands.

That's it for me on this topic. It's too hard posting information from other folks. My Franglish and their Konglish. It's too much for me. :smile:
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