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Need help with fillings for chocolates

Confections Chocolate

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44 replies to this topic

#31 Louisa Chu

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Posted 23 February 2003 - 03:50 AM

If I can just add a chocolate novice's perspective. The reason why you may have had thin spots in your white chocolate is that now that you've worked with dark or milk chocolate you may anticipate that setting time whereas white chocolate sets more slowly. I think a solution would simply to be to let it set a bit longer than you've become used to.

And pros, please help me out here because I've forgetten and my notes are at school, when you do marbling I think it's dark/milk then white? So you get a cleaner look and not a muddy looking marble. I have not done marbling yet which is why I don't remember - no physical memory yet - but did see the two demo'ed and there was a significant difference.

Thanks.

Er, I mean chefs, could you please help. Sorry. Thanks. :unsure:

Edited by loufood, 23 February 2003 - 03:55 AM.


#32 Steve Klc

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Posted 23 February 2003 - 08:39 AM

Lou--in polycarbonate molds I always do dark first then white--the theory being white--which tempers and works at a lower temperature than dark--will not pull the dark out of temper. The reverse--white in first then dark second--might pull the white out of temper because it, the dark, tempers and works at a higher temperature. But I've seen it done white down first by some and it turned out just fine, nice and shiny. I just don't do it that way.

Marbling on plastic sheets for cutouts or poured marbling--as in pouring out a half inch piece for a base--is slightly different and a more advanced technique. You have to do it to see what I mean. Some people put all the chocolates in a bowl, swirl a bit and dump out; some pipe and stripe and pour colors separately and then spatula a bit. Really a matter of effect and personal style. I actually never use tempered milk for anything--it's not as strongly set as white or dark; just mix your tempered white and dark together quickly and you'll get the milk color. That way you only need to temper and hold two chocolates--white and dark--and not three.
Steve Klc

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#33 Michael Laiskonis

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Posted 23 February 2003 - 09:54 AM

...in polycarbonate molds I always do dark first then white--the theory being white--which tempers and works at a lower temperature than dark--will not pull the dark out of temper.  The reverse--white in first then dark second--might pull the white out of temper because it, the dark, tempers and works at a higher temperature.  But I've seen it done white down first by some and it turned out just fine, nice and shiny...

That's great advice, Steve.

Hey Lou, being in France, have you been exposed to any PCB Creation products? They manufacture a small line of colored cocoa butters that are very easy to use, with zero waste, and when 'marbled' into a chocolate mold, maintain a beautiful sheen and a translucent effect when used subtly with say, white and dark chocolates.
Michael Laiskonis
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#34 tan319

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Posted 23 February 2003 - 10:48 AM

Michael,
can you actually click on to products to see what they are?
I went to the site and only got the pictures.
I'm intrigued by the 'cooling spray'...
also, the cocoa butters?
2317/5000

#35 tan319

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Posted 23 February 2003 - 11:07 AM

Michael or Steve,
is there a short course at a school you would recommend for chocolate work?
I never really have worked with tempered choc and things of that nature.
Also, PVC. You can get that at an art store, correct?
2317/5000

#36 Steve Klc

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Posted 23 February 2003 - 12:51 PM

My top 3: FPS (Jacquy Pfeiffer) in Chicago, The Chocolate Loft (Drew Shotts) in NYC, Ewald Notter's school in Gaithersburg, MD.
Steve Klc

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#37 Michael Laiskonis

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Posted 23 February 2003 - 01:45 PM

My top 3: FPS (Jacquy Pfeiffer) in Chicago, The Chocolate Loft (Drew Shotts) in NYC, Ewald Notter's school in Gaithersburg, MD.



Ditto.

I would look, in particular, for any classes taught by Norman Love. His generosity and passion for chocolate runs deep, and he can be just plain exciting to be around. Though you might make some cheesy showpieces (the techniques used, admittedly, are the basic building blocks of more complex artistic showpieces), his coverage of ganaches, candies, and garnishes can be very useful.

As for PCB, the website is useful as an introduction, but you don't really get a sense for their products until you have a catalog in your hands. Try to navigate your way to the catalog request form. It's free. They release a new one twice a year, in the spring and fall. I think they now even publish an English edition. There is a lot to sift through, but you'll find the cocoa butters, tons of chablons, the very cool textured acetates, and though I don't really use transfer sheets, their designs are the most inventive out there. Several MOFs, and even Jacquy Pfeifer and Sebastien Canone, consult on new products for them. However conservative this group may be, they are forcing a lot of the other companies to play catch-up.

I'm not sure how much distribution they have in the US now, but European Imports in Chicago carries the cocoa butters, some of the transfer sheets, guitar sheets, and edible lustre dusts- last time I checked.

PVC... do you mean the plastic tubing- Poly(vinyl chloride)- used in plumbing? Or do you mean acetate, or plastic sheeting? PVC, available at hardware stores, comes in a multitude of sizes and is easily cut down into molds. The acetate products I use most are 2 to 2 1/2" wide rolls (firm, yet easy to manipulate) and the PCB guitar sheets I mentioned above, which I use for many purposes, not just chocolate work. I don't know what might be available in art supply stores, but as always, make sure what you are using is food-safe.

Cold spray, keyboard cleaner, chewing gum remover... it's all the same... well, yes and no. There are some that are safe to ingest and others that contain chemicals you wouldn't want to. The spray is used in assembling and affixing chocolate showpieces. Steve is no doubt the authority on this.

Edited by Michael Laiskonis, 23 February 2003 - 01:49 PM.

Michael Laiskonis
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#38 nightscotsman

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Posted 23 February 2003 - 05:38 PM

The French Pastry School has several "Guest Chef" classes on chocolate techniques:

May 6-8
Producing Belgian Chocolate Candies - Jean Pierre Wybauw, Master Chocolatier
Jean Pierre Wybauw will define the sophisticated science behind handling chocolate products. Students will create extensive hand-made and machine enrobed chocolates candies under Jean Pierre's close supervision. $720

August 5-7
Old and New World Sugar Confectionaries - Sebastien Canonne
Sebastien Canonne will take our students back to their childhoods with his extensive selection of sugar confections and candies. Nougats, caramels, pate de fruit, hard candies, marshmallows, lollipops and berlingots will be taught in this course. Students will learn about and make elaborate chocolates, chocolate candies and confectioneries, such as fruit paste, guimauve, praline, caramels, truffles, nougats, gummies and much more. This class is based on using quick and efficient methods of production and demonstrates how to translate these techniques into increased sales. $720

August 19-21
Chocolate Centerpieces and Sculptures - Norman Love
Students will create whimsical and architectural chocolate centerpieces using the latest chocolate and cocoa butter techniques. These sculptures can be used as room amenities or for buffet showpieces. $720

More info here: http://www.frenchpastryschool.com

#39 tan319

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Posted 23 February 2003 - 07:27 PM

My top 3: FPS (Jacquy Pfeiffer) in Chicago, The Chocolate Loft (Drew Shotts) in NYC, Ewald Notter's school in Gaithersburg, MD.



Ditto.

I would look, in particular, for any classes taught by Norman Love. His generosity and passion for chocolate runs deep, and he can be just plain exciting to be around. Though you might make some cheesy showpieces (the techniques used, admittedly, are the basic building blocks of more complex artistic showpieces), his coverage of ganaches, candies, and garnishes can be very useful.

As for PCB, the website is useful as an introduction, but you don't really get a sense for their products until you have a catalog in your hands. Try to navigate your way to the catalog request form. It's free. They release a new one twice a year, in the spring and fall. I think they now even publish an English edition. There is a lot to sift through, but you'll find the cocoa butters, tons of chablons, the very cool textured acetates, and though I don't really use transfer sheets, their designs are the most inventive out there. Several MOFs, and even Jacquy Pfeifer and Sebastien Canone, consult on new products for them. However conservative this group may be, they are forcing a lot of the other companies to play catch-up.

I'm not sure how much distribution they have in the US now, but European Imports in Chicago carries the cocoa butters, some of the transfer sheets, guitar sheets, and edible lustre dusts- last time I checked.

PVC... do you mean the plastic tubing- Poly(vinyl chloride)- used in plumbing? Or do you mean acetate, or plastic sheeting? PVC, available at hardware stores, comes in a multitude of sizes and is easily cut down into molds. The acetate products I use most are 2 to 2 1/2" wide rolls (firm, yet easy to manipulate) and the PCB guitar sheets I mentioned above, which I use for many purposes, not just chocolate work. I don't know what might be available in art supply stores, but as always, make sure what you are using is food-safe.

Cold spray, keyboard cleaner, chewing gum remover... it's all the same... well, yes and no. There are some that are safe to ingest and others that contain chemicals you wouldn't want to. The spray is used in assembling and affixing chocolate showpieces. Steve is no doubt the authority on this.


Sorry, I did mean the acetate sheets, to spread tempered choc on.
Thank you!
And I thank everyone for the suggestions. Much appreciated!

Edit: Fixed quote codes. ML

Edited by Michael Laiskonis, 24 February 2003 - 09:11 AM.

2317/5000

#40 Louisa Chu

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Posted 25 February 2003 - 08:13 AM

Steve, thanks so much. Very interesting about mixing the white and the dark rather than using the milk. Is this common practice? Or just something you developed? Is there much of a taste/texture difference? When do you use milk chocolate then?

And Michael I have not used any PCB products yet. Neither in school or out. Though we may in school next session in superior when concentration is more on fine chocolate work, sugar, presentation, etc.

We were not even allowed to use vanilla beans in basic - for which I really don't blame them.

I will ask one of my chefs whose currently prepping for the MOF patissier competition - as opposed to chocolate - next month.

Thanks again for expanding my world.

#41 Steve Klc

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Posted 25 February 2003 - 08:56 AM

The mixing white and dark thing I learned from Kurt Walrath, who when he was at the Rainbow Room was perhaps the best non-French pastry chef working in the US. He's now an amazing glass artist in Rhode Island. This is just for decor Lou--for showpiece work--so taste isn't a factor. I'd still temper and mold with real milk chocolate for bon bons.

Also, for decor work milk chocolate is not strong--not anywhere near as strong as white or dark. Hence, by combining white and dark you not only get the milk color but increased strength. Plus the time savings of not having to temper 3 chocolates.

PS--I think it's really cool you are starting to get exposed to this side of the business and that you have an opportunity to work closely with a MOF candidate. Please continue to file reports of your progress and his progress.
Steve Klc

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Oyamel : Zaytinya : Cafe Atlantico : Jaleo

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#42 Michael Laiskonis

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Posted 25 February 2003 - 10:24 PM

Also, for decor work milk chocolate is not strong--not anywhere near as strong as white or dark.  Hence, by combining white and dark you not only get the milk color but increased strength.  Plus the time savings of not having to temper 3 chocolates.

Steve,

Would you employ this technique in judged competition, or just in, say, a piece purely for table decor? Would judges take away points, or is it an understood, standard practice?

What other "trucs" have you learned in competition that have also enhanced your everyday chocolate work? For instance, when making molded chocolate candies, conventional wisdom holds that the ganache-filled molds should stand for 12-24 hours before sealing. When doing these in competition, time is most certainly a factor...
Michael Laiskonis
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#43 R Washburn

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Posted 26 February 2003 - 07:59 AM

that the ganache-filled molds should stand for 12-24 hours before sealing. When doing these in competition, time is most certainly a factor...


Any other important "trucs" for us novices?

Also, what are the basic guidelines for liquer flavored fondant? I made some "strong" fondant (118 C), and I would like to flavor it for fillings.


Thanks,

Robert

#44 R Washburn

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Posted 28 February 2003 - 02:26 PM

Found the Jacques Torres Alize heart recipe:

Hearts of Passion

2 pounds milk chocolate, tempered
1/4 cup heavy cream
1 tablespoon corn syrup
1 cup fresh passion fruit juice
18 ounces milk chocolate, chopped
5 tablespoons passion fruit liqueur (reccomended: Alize)
2 tablespoons butter
Special Equipment, see source link for information:
Heart-shaped molds

Here's the link to the complete recipe, with alot of good instructional tips:

http://www.foodnetwo...5,20809,00.html

Here's the basic process in my words:

Ladle tempered chocolate into molds, pour chocolate out, invert on cooling rack a few minutes, and then clean top of mold with spatula, to remove excess chocolate.
Combine cream, corn syrup and passionfruit juice in pan and scald mixture. Pour the hot cream mixture over the chopped chocolate and blend until smooth. Add Alize and butter and blend until smooth. Allow the ganache to cool to 85 degrees F. Place the mixture in a piping bag and pipe it into the chocolate filled molds. Let set overnight.
Seal bottoms with milk chocolate and allow to set. Slightly twist molds to free chocolates and then rap on bench to remove them.
Yield: several dozen hearts.

#45 Louisa Chu

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Posted 01 March 2003 - 06:15 PM

Thanks Steve. And I have the same questions as Michael.

And as for my chef, he's in the homestretch. The competition's 2 weeks away and he's locked away in the private pastry chefs' kitchen almost exclusively now. He emerges occasionally to oversee the Superior Patisserie students. I will talk to him more after. And thank you for first informing me as to what an MOF is - that seems a lifetime ago. It led me to research the title and has allowed me to somewhat intelligently discuss it with my chef - and granted me a bit more of his confidence. He was surprised that I even knew what it was. Again thanks to you.





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