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Need help with fillings for chocolates

Confections Chocolate

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#1 R Washburn

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Posted 12 February 2003 - 08:36 AM

I have just ordered some chocolate molds from beryl's (Beryl's ) and I am looking for recipes and advice for fillings. I am paricularly interested in recipes for fruit based and liquer based fillings. Does anybody know how Jaques Torres makes the Alize filling for his Alize hearts?

Thanks,

Robert

#2 bripastryguy

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Posted 12 February 2003 - 08:42 AM

Look at the paris gormet website, they have some bon bon recipes.

I think if you email Jacques, he would be more than willing to give you a hint.
"Chocolate has no calories....
Chocolate is food for the soul, The soul has no weight, therefore no calories" so said a customer, a lovely southern woman, after consuming chocolate indulgence
SWEET KARMA DESSERTS
www.sweetkarmadesserts.com
550 East Meadow Ave. East meadow, NY 11554
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#3 chefette

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Posted 12 February 2003 - 09:09 AM

So, the Alize is the milk chocolate truffle with passionfruit-flavored ganache using Alize passionfruit liqueur in addition to passionfruit puree or syrup in the ganache.

Assuming that you can hold your own on tempering chocolate to mold the candies, I expect that the effect at least can be achieved several ways. You could try this recipe.

300g passionfruit puree
600g milk chocolate
80g invert sugar
100g butter
30g Alize passionfruit liquer

Edited by chefette, 12 February 2003 - 09:10 AM.


#4 chefette

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Posted 12 February 2003 - 09:11 AM

Of course if you really like his Alize hearts, it is probably cheaper and easier to just go buy them instead of attempting to make your own. But I assume that you are seeking the adventure of it all.

#5 R Washburn

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Posted 12 February 2003 - 09:20 AM

Of course if you really like his Alize hearts, it is probably cheaper and easier to just go buy them instead of attempting to make your own. But I assume that you are seeking the adventure of it all.


Thanks for the recipe. Whether or not it is cheaper to buy them, depends upon how much you value your time.

#6 chefette

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Posted 12 February 2003 - 09:38 AM

So you place almost no value whatsoever on your time I assume. :raz:

#7 R Washburn

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Posted 12 February 2003 - 09:42 AM

So you place almost no value whatsoever on your time I assume.


Pretty much.

Another question for you: Aproximately how many pounds of chocolate would your recipe fill?

#8 chefette

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Posted 12 February 2003 - 09:58 AM

The recipee should produce about 1K of ganache. Assuming the average chocolate contains 11g filling, you should be able to make about 100 chocolates.

Is your question how many pounds of chocolate should I expect to use to mold (coat and close) 100 chocolate candies?

If this is your question, I would work with about 3 pounds of chocolate for coating. This is not to say that there will be 3 pounds of chocolate actually coating your ganache, but that to do the filling you will need approximately that much.

Have you ever tempered chocolate or made molded chocolates? You might find that you are getting yourself in deeper than you anticipated here. You might also find that you value your time 'slightly' more than you think since this will probably take longer than you might anticipate if you have not done it before.

I am DYING to know all about this. Just wish we could have it on video tape.

Edited by chefette, 12 February 2003 - 09:59 AM.


#9 tedwin

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Posted 12 February 2003 - 11:07 AM

I'm also interested in learning a more diverse range of molded chocolate fillings. I've done ganache and buttercreams. I'd like to learn nougats and nut fillings. Are there any good resource books?

#10 nightscotsman

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Posted 12 February 2003 - 11:07 AM

Look at the paris gormet website, they have some bon bon recipes.

Is this the web site you are referring to?

http://www.patisfran...ocolatebonbons/

Or is there another you recommend?

#11 chefette

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Posted 12 February 2003 - 11:26 AM

Or are you thinking of fondant creams and pralines when you say nougats and nut fillings? Or do you mean 'nougat' as in Three Muskateers Bars? or 'nougat' as in the italian confection made with egg white, honey, and nuts (ala Charleston chew)?

Edited by chefette, 12 February 2003 - 11:26 AM.


#12 R Washburn

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Posted 12 February 2003 - 11:37 AM

Have you ever tempered chocolate or made molded chocolates? You might find that you are getting yourself in deeper than you anticipated here. You might also find that you value your time 'slightly' more than you think since this will probably take longer than you might anticipate if you have not done it before.
I am DYING to know all about this. Just wish we could have it on video tape.


I have tempered chocolate before, but I have never tried molding it. What potentially amusing problems problems are you anticipating? It seems pretty straight forward, although I see a lot of potential for mess. I am tempted to try out molding a few impressions in cocoa tonight, just to get a feel for it. I do have experience molding gold and silver. While chocolate looks to be more delicate, you are able to work at much lower temperatures, which I expect to make things easier.

I will definitely post my results back on this thread.

Robert

#13 nightscotsman

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Posted 12 February 2003 - 11:45 AM

I haven't done molded chocolates myself (yet), but a chef instructor I met once gave me a tip that seems to help give the finished chocolates a good shine and makes them easier to unmold: never wash the molds with soap and water. Just rinse them with hot water to wash away the visible chocolate left behind. I think this is sort of like seasoning a pan for non-stick-ness.

Can anyone else confirm or deny that this is a good strategy?

#14 R Washburn

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Posted 12 February 2003 - 11:54 AM

I haven't done molded chocolates myself (yet), but a chef instructor I met once gave me a tip that seems to help give the finished chocolates a good shine and makes them easier to unmold: never wash the molds with soap and water. Just rinse them with hot water to wash away the visible chocolate left behind. I think this is sort of like seasoning a pan for non-stick-ness.
Can anyone else confirm or deny that this is a good strategy?

So I have been told. The cocoa butter seasons them. also you want to avoid scratching them or leaving any lint behind from the cloth.

#15 chefette

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Posted 12 February 2003 - 12:16 PM

Well, I am glad to hear that you have at least tempered chocolate before, so that will not be such a hurdle. Will you mold with dark chocolate? What brand? what percentage?

What tempering method are you planning to utilize?

I am sorry that I was envisioning a potential debacle. I applaud your willingness to make your own chocolates and hope that it goes well and you are rewarded with lots of beautiful and yummy chocolates and that you will continue. I am sure we all wish you the best of luck and cannot wait to hear about your (hopeful) success. Of course, disasterous failure would make for a very amusing story.

NSM, different people have different concerns regarding mold care. I had not heard anyone before rejecting soap though. The residual film of cocoa butter can build up and may affect the shine of your chocolates. A build up of cocoa butter in the mold cavities can result in a cloudy surface. The chocolate takes its shine from the surface against which it hardens so the more brilliantly smooth and shiny your surface, the more brilliantly shiny your chocolates. It also helps not to hurry too much in unmolding.

To address this you will probably want to use hot water with a bit of soap, but rinse very well and allow to air dry. Then gently swipe each cavity with a cotton ball to get rid of any water spots. You don't want to get too vigorous because static electricity can build up and can be problematic.

Generally, you do not want your mold to be too cold when you introduce the chocolate. It is a good idea to let the molds warm just a bit in the oven (with the pilot light) before pouring in the chocolate.

A non-pastry acquaintance wanted assistance in making 200-300 chocolates to give to co-workers last Valentine's Day. By the end of a long hard day of work I think she had a much greater appreciation of hand made chocolates and their relative value. This is especially evident when you do not have a chocolate warmer to hold your chocolate at the proper temperature and must continually keep track of it, warm it up, and re-temper as required.

I would recommend always using test strips to make sure your chocolate is in temper prior to pouring it in the molds. This helps prevent huge waste of chocolate and wasted time cleaning the molds.

Edited by chefette, 12 February 2003 - 12:20 PM.


#16 Lesley C

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Posted 12 February 2003 - 09:11 PM

If possible, try to avoid washing your chocolate moulds at all. Just scrape them clean.

#17 tedwin

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Posted 13 February 2003 - 08:21 AM

Or are you thinking of fondant creams and pralines when you say nougats and nut fillings?  Or do you mean 'nougat' as in Three Muskateers Bars?  or 'nougat' as in the italian confection made with egg white, honey, and nuts (ala Charleston chew)?

I was looking for recipes along the lines of what See's Candies calls "Nuts and Chews". Their Chews feature centers of caramel and nougat. The Nuts have centers of "crunchy, chocolate coated nuts".

#18 R Washburn

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Posted 13 February 2003 - 08:27 AM

I did a trial run last night using a Gastroflex mini-madeleine mold as a stand in for the heart and seafruit molds I am waiting on. I melted and tempered ~5oz of Valrhona milk chocolate (30% cocoa?) in a double boiler ( I used an ice bath to cool the chocolate). I then spooned in a little chocolate into each mold, and pushed it around with a spoon to coat the inside of each mold. Next, I removed the excess chocolate with a bench scraper and placed the molds in the refridgerator to harden. Because the mold is so flexible, I didn't try to invert it to remove excess chocolate. For filling I piped in a little hazelnut praline spread (from "le Pain Quotidien"). I then covered the chocolates with a second layer of chocolate and wiped the excess off with a scraper. The chocolates were then allowed to set in the fridge, and finally unmolded. I won't claim they are as good as Jaques Torres', but they were a lot better than anything available in your local supermarket, or most Malls. It seems pretty hard to go wrong if you use good ingredients.

Speaking of ingredients, does anyone know of a good source for cocoa butter, invert sugar and passionfruit puree in New York City? The only supplier I am familiar with is in Philadelphia (Assouline and Ting). I really want to try Cheffete's filling recipe as soon as my molds show up.

#19 bripastryguy

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Posted 13 February 2003 - 08:44 AM

try paris gourmet or the Chefs warehouse (Dairyland) , they both have websites and I think both sell to the general public. I have found the passionfruit puree in some supermarkets (its packaged and kept in the freezer usually with the Latin ingredients)
"Chocolate has no calories....
Chocolate is food for the soul, The soul has no weight, therefore no calories" so said a customer, a lovely southern woman, after consuming chocolate indulgence
SWEET KARMA DESSERTS
www.sweetkarmadesserts.com
550 East Meadow Ave. East meadow, NY 11554
516-794-4478
Brian Fishman

#20 R Washburn

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Posted 13 February 2003 - 09:21 AM

I have found the passionfruit puree in some supermarkets (its packaged and kept in the freezer usually with the Latin ingredients)


My local supermarket ( I live in Washington Heights) has puree, but it lacks any intensity of flavor. I was hoping to try to source a really high quality puree. If the stuff has to be shipped I may as well pick it up in Philadelphia, next time I go down there. Here is Assouline and Ting's wholsale catalog:Assouline & Ting

Their fruit purees sound promising, and they do have cocoa butter and invert sugar.

Thanks again for your help.

#21 bripastryguy

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Posted 13 February 2003 - 10:08 AM

i just checked out that site. Their prices are pretty good. I havent looked at the shipping costs yet.

It will take you a long time to go through 5 gals of inverted sugar.

You can order Trimoline through
http://www.chefswarehouse.com/
18lbs for $33.00, I guess the 5 gals from Assouline is a better deal.
"Chocolate has no calories....
Chocolate is food for the soul, The soul has no weight, therefore no calories" so said a customer, a lovely southern woman, after consuming chocolate indulgence
SWEET KARMA DESSERTS
www.sweetkarmadesserts.com
550 East Meadow Ave. East meadow, NY 11554
516-794-4478
Brian Fishman

#22 Michael Laiskonis

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Posted 13 February 2003 - 11:30 PM

R Washburn,

It's good that you have tempering down (though I feel it is a good idea to wean yourself of off the bain-marie and ice water bath. One slip and you've got unusable chocolate. Utilize that microwave!), and it seems you are willing to give the ganache the respect and attention it deserves.

While you wait for your molds to arrive, you can still practice the technique and skills you need for properly casting them. Using the flexipan was an interesting idea, but you found that it doesn't behave in the ways a polycarbonate mold does. Look around your kitchen, your house. Even an ice cube tray, or any small plastic form could provide some practice. Don't even worry about filling and eating them; simply practice casting your chocolate. Obviously, make sure it's clean, and buff it with a cotton ball. Remember to fill the mold or form completely, tap it to remove air bubbles. Get a feel for inverting it, and knowing when the chocolate is in that 'set-but-not-quite' state. Work on getting your chocolate to the right fluidity and temperature within the tempered range that will give you a superthin shell. Practice unmolding the shells- a stage of the process you don't want to rush. Definitely work on your efficiency and cleanliness. Pay attention to your environment- the ambiant temperature will have an effect on the behavior of your chocolate, and that may determine the speed at which you have to work. Any mistakes you make at this point can simply be melted down for the next try. After a while you can try marbeling dark, milk and white chocolates, or get into colored cocoa butters. It's not a difficult skill to learn, it just takes practice to master. Once you do feel confident, then you're on to enrobing, but that's a different animal altogher.

As for hard to find ingredients, seek out local pastry shops and restaurants for small quantities. I use trimoline everyday, and it takes me a month or more to go through a 7kg bucket, let alone five gallons!
Michael Laiskonis
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#23 R Washburn

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Posted 14 February 2003 - 07:49 AM

Thanks for the advice Michael. Do you have any links to filling recipes? I would like to make some liquer based and intense fruit fillings.


Robert

#24 chefette

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Posted 14 February 2003 - 01:26 PM

R W, I have tried a Passionfruit concentrate that seems to be available in the 'Latin' international section of some grocery stores. This is a very strong passionfruit juice that is not sweetened. You might look for that. Also, check out Perfect Puree http://www.perfectpuree.com/

They might sell single liters of purees.

As for the Invert sugar - try Light Corn Syrup that should get you by just fine. I was curious that you hadn't addressed this earlier but thought - hey, you must have your sources...

When Lesley C says scrape she means scrapoe the external flat surfaces of the mold, never ever scrape the molding cavities.

Glad to hear that your experiment went well too.

#25 R Washburn

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Posted 14 February 2003 - 02:39 PM

As for the Invert sugar - try Light Corn Syrup that should get you by just fine. I was curious that you hadn't addressed this earlier but thought - hey, you must have your sources...

I am using corn syrup, since my source sells invert sugar in 5 Gal containers. What about acid hydrolyzing surose into invert sugar? Do you know of an invert sugar recipe?

I tried your Alize ganache recipe, but it definitely doesn't have the intensity I am looking for. A more intense puree would help, though. Do you think I could cook down and intensify a larger volume of Alize to provide more flavor?

#26 chefette

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Posted 15 February 2003 - 07:30 AM

When you say you used puree but that it has no intensity of flavor - exactly what puree are you using? Passionfruit puree is incredibly intense.

Are you by any chance talking about those fruit smoothie mixes the Smoothie pack 100% fresh crushed fruit smoothie Passion fruit? If that is what you are using, that tastes primarily of bananas. Nice for something, but not if you are looking for a strong passion fruit flavor. Look for the passionfruit concentrate in a glass bottle (about 1 pint I think) use it straight in your ganache.

As for the invert sugar - don't get yourself wrapped around the axel. The corn syrup will be just fine - really!

#27 Steve Klc

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Posted 15 February 2003 - 08:15 AM

For a non-professional substituting corn syrup or glucose is fine at the stage you are at Robert. Don't get too far beyond your ability too quickly. You haven't even molded a chocolate yet in a real polycarbonate mold but you will soon. I'd get used to tempering and molding with at least 2 pounds, not 5 ounces, and I'd suggest you use a dark chocolate couverture to mold with, at least as you begin experimenting with molds. There is alot that can go wrong and so much that isn't straightforward. Don't try to run before you can crawl. There is so much you have to digest, to absorb about "making chocolate" and there's just no shortcut. It's nice to have confidence, as you seem to, but there's alot more to this than recipes.

A few general thoughts--all invert sugar is not necessarily Trimolene. There are two different kinds of inverted sugar--a thick whitish sticky paste and a more liquidy, yellowish sticky syrupy paste. The Dairyland product is the latter. I've used it and it will work in sorbet recipes and in ganaches but not exactly as Trimolene would in a professional recipe which was based on Trimolene. This is what I mean about getting too far ahead--I don't even know yet if you can make a smooth ganache technique-wise without breaking or if you understand why it might break.

The chocolate you use matters--each chocolate has a different fat/sugar ratio which affects the proportions of the other ingredients--so a Passionfruit ganache with Manjari and one with E. Guittard will (probably) need all different ratios of ingredients. Usually chocolatiers tailor their ganaches to specifc chocolates--they figure out just the right % of butter, invert sugar, etc. to the cocoa percentage of specific chocolates. That passionfruit ganache chefette gave you I believe was designed for a 45% milk chocolate from Cluizel and Ravifruit passionfruit puree.

Each one of the issues you raise indirectly cannot be answered quickly or definitively with a recipe or the right ingredient--each is an in-depth subject and could really be an individual thread--like making fruit ganaches, tempering techniques, dipping and molding, etc. Make the same recipe with Boiron passionfruit and it will come out differently than if you used Ravifruit or Perfectpuree or the Latin market concentrate. (I like the flash-frozen French ones best.) The key is knowing why they turn out differently and learning how to make adjustments. You have to do ALOT of this to learn. They all have different consistencies, sugar content and water content. Also realize a ganache--which necessarily has a high percentage of chocolate--will usually not have such an intense fruit flavor. It's still chocolate and something else. And chocolates made in the French style prize subtlety of flavor, not intensity. This is why chocolatiers spend their whole lives specializing in chocolateit is that vast, that specialized and yes, that difficult. You have to have the right personality for it.

On cooking down fruit flavors, that (usually) destroys flavor and reduces the sparkle or brightness whereas reducing other things concentrates and improves flavor. You'll have to experiment to see which makes the most sense for what you're trying to do.

There are some very good "professional" chocolate filling recipes and an explanation of making ganaches and chocolate candies (which is only somewhat over-complicated) in the Frederic Bau book. If you're interested in pursuing this, that book would be a really good starting point.
Steve Klc

Pastry chef-Restaurant Consultant
Oyamel : Zaytinya : Cafe Atlantico : Jaleo

chef@pastryarts.com

#28 R Washburn

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Posted 21 February 2003 - 09:47 AM

here are some very good "professional" chocolate filling recipes and an explanation of making ganaches and chocolate candies (which is only somewhat over-complicated) in the Frederic Bau book. If you're interested in pursuing this, that book would be a really good starting point.


Is this the book to get? It looks like there is only a section on chocolate making and the book costs $120. I will get it though if it is the best resource. They recommended another book at JB Prince (I will post it when I check my notes at home. The downside of the other book was that the recipes all use professional, European sourced ingredients.

I made some chocolates last night in the "Seafruits" mold from Beryl's. The two piece mold makes for some really beautiful shells and seacreatures. I used Callebaut white chocolate with a Scharfenberger (62% Cocoa) chocolate ganache for a filling. I infused the cream with peppermint tea and added some creme de menthe and crushed peppermint candy for added flavor. The chocolates came out nearly perfect, and are very tasty. I did have some thin spots in the white chocolate where you can see the dark filling, but that is okay with me.

I am going to try making some flavored fondants next, for filling. One thing I am going to try is evaporating some Alize for an Alize fondant filling.

Thanks for the advice everyone,

Robert

#29 nightscotsman

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Posted 21 February 2003 - 11:42 AM

here are some very good "professional" chocolate filling recipes and an explanation of making ganaches and chocolate candies (which is only somewhat over-complicated) in the Frederic Bau book. If you're interested in pursuing this, that book would be a really good starting point.

Is this the book to get? It looks like there is only a section on chocolate making and the book costs $120. I will get it though if it is the best resource. They recommended another book at JB Prince (I will post it when I check my notes at home. The downside of the other book was that the recipes all use professional, European sourced ingredients.

The Bau book is excellent, but the section on chocolates - while impressive - is quite small. I'm not sure it's worth the expense if you only want info on chocolate work. If it were me, I would look into these books from L'Ecole Lenotre:

http://www.pastryche...otre_books.html

#30 Steve Klc

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Posted 21 February 2003 - 12:23 PM

I can also second Scot's recommendation as an alternative Robert--both Lenotre volumes (each $60 or so?) are worth adding to the library. Especially if you think this won't be a passing obsession. I like, and have used, their whole series. It's the closest thing we have to a modern version of the (still really good) Bilheux & Escoffier "Professional French Pastry Series."

And with Bau--I'm not sure if your interests lie elsewhere--but this book has been incredibly influential among French and French-leaning pastry chefs working in the US. You see his influence everywhere.
Steve Klc

Pastry chef-Restaurant Consultant
Oyamel : Zaytinya : Cafe Atlantico : Jaleo

chef@pastryarts.com





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