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Different Names for the Same Food Item: What's in a Name?


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#1 weedy

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Posted 19 July 2014 - 03:33 PM

I can't stand when people call Coriander leaves 'cilantro' if they're otherwise speaking english.


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#2 DiggingDogFarm

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Posted 19 July 2014 - 04:05 PM

One of my big gripes is the deli section at Whole Foods, where they say all their charcuterie is uncured. Huh? They're selling things that are by definition cured: hams, prosciuttos, etc... 

Apparently the industry lobbied to have the official definition of "uncured" altered to mean free of certain kinds of nitrates or nitrites. Which is just b.s.. -- marketing departments influencing the laws in order to pander to the public's misconceptions. Makes me want to kill people.

 

 

Kill people over a label?

 

Much of the labeling that seems deceptive is actual required.

 

From USDA materials.....

 

"Bacon can be manufactured without the use of nitrite, but must be labeled "Uncured Bacon, No Nitrates or Nitrites added" and bear the statement "Not Preserved, Keep Refrigerated Below 40 °F At All Times" — unless the final product has been dried according to USDA regulations, or if the product contains an amount of salt sufficient to achieve an internal brine concentration of 10% or more, the label does not have to carry the handle statement of "Not Preserved, Keep Refrigerated below ___" etc. Recent research studies have shown for products labeled as uncured, certain ingredients added during formulation can naturally produce small amounts of nitrates in bacon and, therefore, have to be labeled with the explanatory statement "no nitrates or nitrites added except for those naturally occurring in ingredients such as celery juice powder, parsley, cherry powder, beet powder, spinach, sea salt etc."

 

Applegate has actually petitioned the USDA to have the labeling laws changed....

http://www.fsis.usda...pdf?MOD=AJPERES


Edited by DiggingDogFarm, 19 July 2014 - 04:10 PM.

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#3 heidih

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Posted 19 July 2014 - 04:06 PM

I can't stand when people call Coriander leaves 'cilantro' if they're otherwise speaking english.

 

 

I will disagree on that one. At least here in Southern California with a vast Hispanic population the default is cilantro. If you said coriander most place nobody would understand what you wanted


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#4 weedy

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Posted 19 July 2014 - 09:07 PM

I will disagree on that one. At least here in Southern California with a vast Hispanic population the default is cilantro. If you said coriander most place nobody would understand what you wanted

 

well then you are, in effect, speaking Spanish, and using the Spanish name, to a Spanish speaking population.

 

But the whole country isn't Southern CA.

When I see "cilantro" in an online recipe for an Indian dish, for example, it looks as ridiculous as if a Mexican salsa recipe called for "dhania leaves'



#5 heidih

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Posted 19 July 2014 - 09:24 PM

No Weedy -  I am using the accepted term for an herb in my area to the general population.  I specified the area but I see the term throughout US recipe and food sites. I seriously doubt that if you posted a recipe on a US site calling for coriander that more than a scant handful of people would think other then the dried seed.


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#6 SobaAddict70

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Posted 19 July 2014 - 10:20 PM

No Weedy -  I am using the accepted term for an herb in my area to the general population.  I specified the area but I see the term throughout US recipe and food sites. I seriously doubt that if you posted a recipe on a US site calling for coriander that more than a scant handful of people would think other then the dried seed.



It might depend on when the recipe was published.

A good example is a recipe for bastila from the FOTW book I bought today. It calls for 2 tablespoons finely chopped fresh coriander, with cilantro in parentheses. This book came out in 1970.

#7 liuzhou

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Posted 20 July 2014 - 01:59 AM

 

well then you are, in effect, speaking Spanish, and using the Spanish name, to a Spanish speaking population.

 

Whereas you are, in effect, speaking French and using the French name to a non-French speaking population.

 

What's the difference? Do Indians generally speak French? Why is a French word better than a Spanish one when used in a recipe for Indian food? Perhaps Portuguese would be more appropriate in some areas of India and their cuisine. But that would be "Coentro". 

 

Another example would be rocket (French) v. arugula (Italian).

These are merely different terms for the same thing. Even within British English, things have various names. As a Scot, you should know that.

 

It's very different from claiming something is X when it isn't. I think Edward J's point is very valid.


Edited by liuzhou, 20 July 2014 - 02:55 AM.


#8 dcarch

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Posted 20 July 2014 - 05:12 AM

What should we call English muffins?

 

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#9 Arey

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Posted 20 July 2014 - 06:34 AM

English Muffins.  The same way I call Italian Bread Italian Bread, although I prefer Atlantic City Italian Bread as baked by a fourth generation Italian baker who's ancestor came to the U.S. early in the 20th century, built brick ovens and opened a bakery, and his grandson or great grandson  is still selling bread baked in the same ovens, using only four ingredients, water, flour, salt and yeast. It's a long narrow light colored crusty bread, with great texture, nicely chewy and when dipped into a bowl of clams in white wine sauce can soak up lots of the sauce while retaining its body.  Philadelphia does have several types of Italian bread and the various bakeries all have their partisans.  When making a hoagie a lot of the crumb has to be scooped out to fit in the meats and cheese and lettuce and tomato and all.  After transferring to the New Haven office of the agency I worked for I got a very rude awakening when I bought my first loaf of what they called Italian Bread there.  It was wrapped in plastic (it should have been in a long thin paper bag, brown or the colors of the Italian flag), and was a long flattish flabby loaf with a soft dark brown wrinkly crust and when dipped into white clam sauce dissolved. This from a city that claimed to be the American birthplace of pizza, only they called it apizza.

But getting back to my original point, Brie is Brie, fromager d'Affinoise is fromager d'Affinoise, Italian Fontina comes from Italy not Wisconsin and a Philly Cheese Steak, is not what America's Test Kitchen made on their show a week or two ago.


Edited by Arey, 20 July 2014 - 06:39 AM.

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#10 liuzhou

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Posted 20 July 2014 - 06:45 AM

 

What should we call English muffins?

 

In England we call them muffins.

 

However there a number of things which you call English, which we have never heard of. 

 

And try asking for a London broil in London. No chance.


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#11 Arey

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Posted 20 July 2014 - 07:42 AM

In England we call them muffins.

 

However there a number of things which you call English, which we have never heard of. 

 

And try asking for a London broil in London. No chance.

 

And, if some one from England asked for a muffin in a U.S. coffee shop, they'd probably be told they have bran, cranberry, blue berry, pumpkin, etc.  When people  ask for a kleenex, they probably don't mean a specific Kleenex as manufactured by Kinberly-Clark, although the Kleenex people wish they would. So maybe we should ask for a Thomas Or a Thomas Muffin.  You've got me wondering,  If you wanted a U.S. type muffin in England (assuming they have them) what would you ask for?  It's definitely not a scone.

As for London Broil, that's another issue in this country where standardization would help.  A London Broil is not a cut of beef it is a recipe, it is a recipe for flank steak.  If you ask my butcher for flank steak, he'll say he doesn't have any.  If you ask for a London Broil, he'll cut you one off a the round.
 


Edited by Arey, 20 July 2014 - 07:48 AM.

"A fool", he said, "would have swallowed it". Samuel Johnson


#12 cakewalk

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Posted 20 July 2014 - 07:53 AM

In England we call them muffins.

 

However there a number of things which you call English, which we have never heard of. 

 

And try asking for a London broil in London. No chance.

I think they're called crumpets. Anyway, every country has its own name for particular items, no? Many years ago a friend from England moved to the States and was in a diner. He ordered from the menu a sandwich with chips, expecting French fries. He got a sandwich with some potato chips on the side. That's just a matter of getting used to cultural changes in language. (Like when an old roommate once asked if she could borrow one of my jumpers. I had no idea what she was talking about.) I don't think the OP is referring to those types of differences in naming food items, interesting as they might be.



#13 patrickamory

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Posted 20 July 2014 - 08:05 AM

Crumpets and (English) muffins are very different things.


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#14 liuzhou

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Posted 20 July 2014 - 08:58 AM

My local supermarket sells what it calls "European Yogurt". 

 

If only Europe sold watery milk rammed to the gills with sugar! It is foul.



#15 quiet1

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Posted 20 July 2014 - 10:45 AM

In England we call them muffins.
 
However there a number of things which you call English, which we have never heard of. 
 
And try asking for a London broil in London. No chance.


Really? When I lived in England I never encountered anything American English muffin like, regardless of the name, and none of my friends were aware of such a creature either. I did not particularly go searching them out, to be fair.

I seem to recall muffins of the type you'd expect in the US, like blueberry and so on, being sold as "American-style" muffins or something similar. Likewise in the freezer section you could get chips but also "American style French fries" which kind of amused me.

#16 JoNorvelleWalker

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Posted 20 July 2014 - 12:27 PM

When I first visited Britain in the 1960's there was "American Hamburger"...which was breaded and deep fried.


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#17 dcarch

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 02:47 PM

You are not going to find Belgium waffles in Belgium.

 

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#18 Edward J

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 06:59 PM

You are not going to find Belgium waffles in Belgium.

 

dcarch

Nor will you find "french toast" in France



#19 Porthos

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 07:16 PM

You won't find Pain Perdu(sp) (lost bread) in France? Fascinating.


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#20 dcarch

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 08:09 PM

"Calling something by its proper name"? Good luck!

 

Where do you think pork butt is on a pig?

 

And where do you get oysters from rocky mountain?

 

dcarch


Edited by dcarch, 22 July 2014 - 08:14 PM.

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#21 rotuts

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 04:58 AM

""  pork butt  ""

 

it not named after that butt

 

but the butt or barrel it was shipped in.



#22 CatPoet

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 11:00 AM

I get those big  waffles you call  Belgian waffles in Belgium  when I was there and then we went over to  The Netherlands and had  some poffertjes and then back to Belgium  and got some chocolate and then  went to the Netherlands again  and bought  cheese. Fun day and we manage to park both in Netherlands and Belgium.

 

Lovely memories.

 

I know that cupcakes used to be called  Fairy cakes and my husband holds dear to that.

 

Im stuck in the EU,  you can call something Italian or French so long as you show the true origin of said thing and dont   try to call it something name protected . The Danes who are famous for making their own version of everything foodwise got around the problem  by misspelling thing like Mossarella  or putting Danish in front of it.


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#23 SylviaLovegren

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 05:36 AM

There is "Italian Bread" in Hudson County, NJ, too, and some of it is sublimely good.  Not anywhere else in NJ, either, unless it's imported from Hudson Co.

 

I think "American muffins" are called "cake" in England.

 

And "Canadian bacon" isn't.  

 

I know what "coriander leaf" is but I've always called it cilantro -- maybe that comes from having lived n California and Miami.  But it's called "cilantro" in my neighborhood in Toronto, too.



#24 dcarch

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 06:25 AM

Guess where does Poland Spring get their water?

 

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#25 liuzhou

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 06:42 AM

The only mackerel I can buy here is "Japanese Spanish mackerel". I guess I should call it Chinese Japanese Spanish mackerel.

Edited by Smithy, 24 July 2014 - 09:42 AM.
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#26 Shelby

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 07:19 AM

Count me as another cilantro-sayer here.  For me cilantro=leafy green herb and coriander=whole spice.


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#27 DianaB

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 08:29 AM

English crumpets & muffins,

http://en.wikipedia....ed_crumpet2.jpg

http://en.wikipedia....sco_muffins.jpg

I've never before attempted to link pictures or anything else in the posts I have made so apologies in advance if the links herein don't work.

Both pictures come from Wikipedia where there are articles describing both items in detail.

Hopefully you can see that our crumpets are of a very distinctive style, best eaten just after toasting (using a toasting fork in front of the fire by preference) with lots of excellent butter that drips through the holes in the crumpet as it melts.

Muffins here are of a much denser texture than crumpets, they an be flavoured, I'm sure I had bran and walnut in the past, they are often sliced in two and given additions sweet or savoury to make a kind of sandwich.

You will find American style muffins here in England also, courtesy of Starbucks etc.

What differentiates an American muffin from an American cup cake? Is it that the latter has a huge topping while the former will be plain on top? When I was young I knew nothing of cup cakes save for some little chocolate buns sold in boxes of six and with a thick layer of solid chocolate over the top, welding the cake into its paper 'cup' until the paper was torn away. Kept the cake moist if stored. Now 'cup cake' seems to be a title given to any small sweet bun, I don't believe the chocolate type of my childhood still exists. My memory says they were good, reason suggests less so, these were mass produced during the 1970s when mass produced food was less than excellent.

If you get the chance of English crumpets with good butter in front of a real fire in the midst of winter take it. One of the little things that makes winter here tolerable.
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#28 andiesenji

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 09:04 AM

I make my own yeast muffins (called English muffins here)  and crumpets, made with milk and baking soda.  Baked on a griddle in rings to contain the batter - otherwise they are unsweetened pancakes...  The muffins are baked on both sides, the crumpets only on the bottom, no turnover. 

 

A cupcake is cake batter baked in a "cup" - originally, back in the later part of the 19th century in what were called "gem" pans.

I believe in England they are called "Fairy Cakes"  as that is the way ex-pat Brits I have known refer to them.

Sometimes these are leavened with egg whites, like a sponge cake but most are leavened with baking powder. 

 

A muffin is a "quick bread" leavened with baking powder OR with baking soda and buttermilk,  and are much heavier and denser than a cupcake. 

The recipes are essentially the same as are made into loaves, pumpkin, banana, carrot, zucchini, spice, bran, etc.


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#29 andiesenji

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 08:04 AM

Count me as another cilantro-sayer here.  For me cilantro=leafy green herb and coriander=whole spice.

Cilantro has long been the common term in NORTH AMERICA for the fresh leaves of Coriandrum sativum, while the dried seeds are identified as coriander.

This has become more common with the increase in population of Spanish-speaking people all over the U.S. 

However, it is not ONLY Hispanic people who use this herb.

 

When I was a child in the 1940s and into the early 1950s, the growing plant was called Chinese Parsley and was used sparingly (because of its distinctive flavor, quite different from the dried, ground seeds) in just a few dishes prepared by my grandparent's cook, a Gullah woman from the lowcountry.  One was a fish and rice stew.  The cook sowed coriander seeds in pots on the porch outside the kitchen (along with many other herbs).

 

Names evolve when things are in constant use and are introduced by immigrants or imported by merchants to offer to consumers.

 

Consider that 50 years ago, here in the U.S., there was only black pepper, white pepper, cayenne and "chili powder" on offer in regular markets.

NOW you can choose peppercorns of a particular variety, from a particular regional source and hundreds of types of chiles, fresh, dried or powdered.

 

Foods evolve and names evolve and they ALL are correct.   Sometimes the names are used to identify a flavor, not the plant itself.   One example:

A couple of local "ethnic" markets  sell Rau ram labeled as "Asian cilantro" or Vietnamese cilantro/coriander  and this is a totally different plant - Polygonum odoratum - but has the same flavor (almost) as fresh cilantro. 


Edited by andiesenji, 12 August 2014 - 08:06 AM.

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#30 GlorifiedRice

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 01:43 PM

well then you are, in effect, speaking Spanish, and using the Spanish name, to a Spanish speaking population.

 

But the whole country isn't Southern CA.

When I see "cilantro" in an online recipe for an Indian dish, for example, it looks as ridiculous as if a Mexican salsa recipe called for "dhania leaves'

 

The word Coriander is the French name, so in all honesty there is no English word for it. Cilantro is the main term for it in the USA


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