Jump to content


Welcome to the eG Forums!

These forums are a service of the Society for Culinary Arts & Letters, a 501c3 nonprofit organization dedicated to advancement of the culinary arts. Anyone can read the forums, however if you would like to participate in active discussions please join the society.

Photo

Adventures in Steak


  • Please log in to reply
59 replies to this topic

#31 JoNorvelleWalker

JoNorvelleWalker
  • participating member
  • 2,689 posts
  • Location:New Jersey USA

Posted 21 July 2014 - 12:39 AM

 

The sort of rib eye you describe is commonly sold in Australia. Most of our readily available steaks have little to no marbling. Lean, lean, lean. Nonetheless, I've had pleasing results cooking such steaks sous vide.

 

In your situation, saute in butter or cook sous vide. If you've gently cooked the steak in a water bath the last thing you want to do is allow the internal temperature to creep up beyond whatever your original target temperature was. And it's not like you want to drop a knob of butter into a screaming hot pan. Use neutral oil with a high smoke point--or no oil, if you've got a non-stick pan--when searing a steak cooked sous vide.

 

If you want the buttery thing, tho', you could always melt some butter (maybe a compound butter of some description) and brush small quantities of this on your sliced steak.

 

I cooked the steak tonight.  Sous vide 57 deg C for two hours, ice bath for about the same time, then finished in a hot pan with butter.  Served with béarnaise sauce.

 

There was a pleasant crust, then about 1/16 of an inch of gray matter, and a pink interior.  The steak was flavorful and very tender -- important for those of us lacking teeth.  But it was dry.  No amount of butter nor béarnaise could fix that.

 

The last sous vide Australian steak I cooked had an unpleasantly burned exterior, with a bright pink (perfectly pasteurized but what I would call raw) center.  It was not particularly tender.



#32 lordratner

lordratner
  • participating member
  • 116 posts
  • Location:UK

Posted 21 July 2014 - 12:53 PM

I cooked the steak tonight.  Sous vide 57 deg C for two hours, ice bath for about the same time, then finished in a hot pan with butter.  Served with béarnaise sauce.

 

There was a pleasant crust, then about 1/16 of an inch of gray matter, and a pink interior.  The steak was flavorful and very tender -- important for those of us lacking teeth.  But it was dry.  No amount of butter nor béarnaise could fix that.

 

The last sous vide Australian steak I cooked had an unpleasantly burned exterior, with a bright pink (perfectly pasteurized but what I would call raw) center.  It was not particularly tender.

A few questions first:

 

Ribeye?

Frozen, Refrigerated, or room temp?

If frozen, how? Flash freeze (from distributor), ice bath then freezer, or just tossed in freezer?

Thickness?

How much liquid in the bag?

 

I'm assuming you like a light pink center, yes?



#33 JoNorvelleWalker

JoNorvelleWalker
  • participating member
  • 2,689 posts
  • Location:New Jersey USA

Posted 21 July 2014 - 02:26 PM

Rib eye...the rib eye described in post #27.

 

Refrigerated, never frozen, about one inch or a little less.  Rinsed and thoroughly patted dry before vacuum sealing.

 

No liquid or seasoning in the bag.

 

I was aiming for (and got) a light pink center.

 

 

Sadly the meat was dry as dust.  I have pretty much given up on sous vide preparation of tender beef.  Three day short ribs, great.  Twenty four hour chuck, even better.  Pork and chicken also work well for me sous vide.  But not steak.


  • janeer likes this

#34 lordratner

lordratner
  • participating member
  • 116 posts
  • Location:UK

Posted 23 July 2014 - 11:11 AM

This is a tough one for me, because I don't like meat cooked much past medium rare. 

 

I'm with a couple others here who believe lean sous vide is a tricky task. That task is made a lot harder when you get to and above medium. Depending on how long you had the steak in the pan with butter, I can see why it dried out.

 

I started sous vide because I wanted great steaks. I still get them, but honestly I like it better for what it can do with eggs, poultry, vegetables, and custards more. 

 

For what it's worth, my steaks always come out best when I use the deep-frying method of finishing. I suspect it's because the steak spends the least amount of time subjected to high heat.



#35 basquecook

basquecook
  • legacy participant
  • 570 posts

Posted 24 July 2014 - 06:24 AM

 

 

Here's a pic of the SV bags warming up on the 1940s Queen-Atlantic:

 

attachicon.gifRaphaelson-1.jpg

 

If I do this again with aged chuck, I'll try trimming the cook time to 36 or even 24 hours, to see if they can be a bit juicier without sacrificing too much tenderness.

 

I want to run away with that stove and make babies with it.    Do you have any more photos.   What island were you on.. That is awesome of Delapetria did that for you.   I have not been over there in some time, I normally stick to Paisanos but, liked what I bought there a year back or so.   I will have to give them another shot.

 

I bought these two ribeyes last night.. they were close to 2 lbs each, maybe more.  Probably a little more.  

 

14730214182_4d09e5aca6_c.jpg

 

Cooked it, full blast on the green egg after a heavy salting.  

 

14544043907_01d87afb7c_c.jpg


Edited by basquecook, 24 July 2014 - 06:26 AM.

  • Toliver, Smithy, demiglace and 4 others like this
“I saw that my life was a vast glowing empty page and I could do anything I wanted" JK

#36 weinoo

weinoo
  • eGullet Society staff emeritus
  • 6,977 posts
  • Location:NYC

Posted 24 July 2014 - 06:44 AM

That steak looks pretty perfect, basquecook.


  • basquecook likes this
Mitch Weinstein aka "weinoo"
mweinstein@eGstaff.org
Tasty Travails - My Blog
My eGullet FoodBog - A Tale of Two Boroughs
Was it you baby...or just a Brilliant Disguise?

#37 slkinsey

slkinsey
  • eGullet Society staff emeritus
  • 11,140 posts
  • Location:New York, New York

Posted 24 July 2014 - 07:40 AM

This all looks great, Paul.  Thanks for sharing it.

 

I wonder if one thing might have helped:  Would it be possible to take the 4 week aged chuckeye roast, open it up to remove all the tough connective tissue and big pockets of fat, reassemble and bond with Activa, then portion and cook as you have done?  I suppose that would remove the possibility of the four hour "danger zone" cooking?


Samuel Lloyd Kinsey

#38 lordratner

lordratner
  • participating member
  • 116 posts
  • Location:UK

Posted 24 July 2014 - 10:54 AM

I bought these two ribeyes last night.. they were close to 2 lbs each, maybe more.  Probably a little more.  

 

14730214182_4d09e5aca6_c.jpg

 

 

Ribeyes? Either way, those look amazing.


  • Paul Bacino and basquecook like this

#39 basquecook

basquecook
  • legacy participant
  • 570 posts

Posted 24 July 2014 - 11:06 AM

bone in ribeye 


“I saw that my life was a vast glowing empty page and I could do anything I wanted" JK

#40 rotuts

rotuts
  • participating member
  • 7,409 posts
  • Location:Boston MA

Posted 24 July 2014 - 11:10 AM

nope.

 

not that.

 

but mighty tasty

 

and Ive Had My Nap !

 

:raz:

 

( come on, as Crag says  :  " Its a Joke !! " )


  • lordratner likes this

#41 lordratner

lordratner
  • participating member
  • 116 posts
  • Location:UK

Posted 24 July 2014 - 12:39 PM

bone in ribeye 

Not quite, but a strip is still a good night. 

 

I wish I could grill like that reliably. But I suppose I don't really need to.


Edited by lordratner, 24 July 2014 - 12:46 PM.

  • rotuts likes this

#42 JoNorvelleWalker

JoNorvelleWalker
  • participating member
  • 2,689 posts
  • Location:New Jersey USA

Posted 24 July 2014 - 11:27 PM

Yesterday rib eye was on sale.  I bought three boneless rib eye steaks that were about two inches thick.  I cooked one by the Fat Guy/Ducasse method:

 

http://forums.egulle...ck-steak/page-1

 

 

With the help of a pair of zombies and Dansko sandals from the footware thread I was able to stand at the stove and cook the steak for about an hour.  What may have started out as footware has turned into a fetish as I now have three pair of Dansko, they are so comfortable.

 

Admittedly I may have been carried away in the cooking as there was little or no pink.  However the meat was so unctuous there was no contest with the pink sous vide Australian rib eye that was completely dry.

 

Served with sautéed mushrooms and béarnaise.  Two more rib eyes to go.



#43 paulraphael

paulraphael
  • participating member
  • 3,283 posts

Posted 25 July 2014 - 06:45 AM

This all looks great, Paul.  Thanks for sharing it.

 

I wonder if one thing might have helped:  Would it be possible to take the 4 week aged chuckeye roast, open it up to remove all the tough connective tissue and big pockets of fat, reassemble and bond with Activa, then portion and cook as you have done?  I suppose that would remove the possibility of the four hour "danger zone" cooking?

Yeah, and I'd also check the time/temp curves to see how long the center would take to get up to a safe zone at the cooking temperature. Some people have had issues with spoilage bacteria when the rise time is too long, if they've done stuff to compromise the sterility of the center. Interesting idea, though. It might just require slicing the meat a bit thinner.


Edited by paulraphael, 25 July 2014 - 06:45 AM.


#44 Okanagancook

Okanagancook
  • participating member
  • 665 posts
  • Location:Naramata overlooking Lake Okanagan, British Columbia, Canada

Posted 25 July 2014 - 03:57 PM

Sous vide grass fed flank steak: 131 degrees F for 24 hours then a quick sear. Perfect medium-rare and very tender. I had previously cooked that kind of flank steak at 125 for a couple of hours for a more rare meat but it was quite chewy.

#45 JoNorvelleWalker

JoNorvelleWalker
  • participating member
  • 2,689 posts
  • Location:New Jersey USA

Posted 01 August 2014 - 12:08 AM

Tonight was the second of my three wet aged (that may be a euphemism for something close to rotting) ribeyes, cooked by the Fat Guy/Ducasse method.  The degree of doneness was just right, which I attribute as much to good fortune as  to culinary skill, since the cook (me) was more than a few sheets to the wind.

 

Still, I am not complaining.



#46 weedy

weedy
  • participating member
  • 266 posts

Posted 04 August 2014 - 11:32 AM

Rib Eye.

marinated in a jalapeño/lime/olive oil/lime juice mix. about an hour.

sealed in bag.

1.jpg

Sous Vide 2 hrs at 131F.

2.jpg

quick sear on cast iron (blazing hot as I could get it) with a splash of olive oil. perhaps 40 secs a side tops.

3.jpg 4.jpg 5.jpg 6.jpg

served with chimmichurri and some sous vide rainbow carrots.

7.jpg

to me, perfect.

 


  • scubadoo97, Anna N, Smithy and 5 others like this

#47 rotuts

rotuts
  • participating member
  • 7,409 posts
  • Location:Boston MA

Posted 04 August 2014 - 12:16 PM

To Die for

 

Weedy

 

Like your plate !



#48 scubadoo97

scubadoo97
  • participating member
  • 2,486 posts
  • Location:Dunedin, Florida

Posted 04 August 2014 - 04:54 PM

Sure looks good Weedy!

#49 paulraphael

paulraphael
  • participating member
  • 3,283 posts

Posted 16 August 2014 - 04:16 PM

I think it's worth pointing out that you only need to chill rapidly post sous vide cooking if you're NOT going to sear and eat immediately

Good point. I'll amend that.



#50 JoNorvelleWalker

JoNorvelleWalker
  • participating member
  • 2,689 posts
  • Location:New Jersey USA

Posted 04 January 2015 - 02:39 AM

New type of Angus brand steak?

 

Shoprite, the only store that I can easily get to, does not have a great meat department.  And don't even think about the fish or seafood.  However I noticed that they now carry a new type of vacuum packed Angus steak.  This steak is marked "choice" and is much better marbled than any other meat in the store.  They claim it is aged.  It is also about twice as much per pound as regular Angus, which means it is way more expensive than ordinary steak.  But I must say the marbling looked far more appetizing than anything else at the meat counter.

 

Being the inquisitive sort I had to try it.  I bought a rib steak.  The steak was large enough to serve me for about four meals.  For the first experiment I cut off the deckle and cooked it up as Anna taught me:  hot pan, cook till crust forms then turn.  The crust was lovely.  But what lurked beneath minded me more of galvanism and Mary Shelley.

 

Tonight I prepared the eye.  I gave it extra time on both sides and the edges.  The crust, if anything, was even more lovely, but what I would probably have sent back in a restaurant as raw.  Maybe my expectations just need calibrating?

 

Has anyone else tried this new sort of Angus?



#51 gfweb

gfweb
  • participating member
  • 4,614 posts
  • Location:Southern Chester Co.

Posted 04 January 2015 - 07:47 AM

If you sear the outside of a steak and then put in a 325F oven the inside will finish nicely to whatever temp you want. The time varies with the thickness. I'd guess 10 min for a 1.5 inch steak. It goes quickly toward the end so take multiple temps.

 

I've never tried Shop-rite steaks.  Acme, our market down here, has terrible steak. I get mine at costco and freeze a bunch.

 

Though Angus is a legit cattle breed, what's marketed as Angus in the US is a heterogeneous mix of cattle that are loosely related to Angus but are >50% black ...in other words not a consistent type.


  • rotuts likes this

#52 rotuts

rotuts
  • participating member
  • 7,409 posts
  • Location:Boston MA

Posted 04 January 2015 - 07:57 AM

this is a fair assesment :

 

http://bbq.about.com.../Angus-Beef.htm

 

Id not really trust the > 51 % black

 

Id trust the marbled look and then your taste.

 

the idea of browning one side, flipping, and at that point finishing in the oven , is a standard better restaurant cooking technique

 

 

works very well after   you master it.


  • gfweb likes this

#53 paulraphael

paulraphael
  • participating member
  • 3,283 posts

Posted 04 January 2015 - 11:50 AM

New type of Angus brand steak?

 

Shoprite, the only store that I can easily get to, does not have a great meat department.  And don't even think about the fish or seafood.  However I noticed that they now carry a new type of vacuum packed Angus steak.  This steak is marked "choice" and is much better marbled than any other meat in the store.  They claim it is aged.  It is also about twice as much per pound as regular Angus, which means it is way more expensive than ordinary steak.  But I must say the marbling looked far more appetizing than anything else at the meat counter.

 

Being the inquisitive sort I had to try it.  I bought a rib steak.  The steak was large enough to serve me for about four meals.  For the first experiment I cut off the deckle and cooked it up as Anna taught me:  hot pan, cook till crust forms then turn.  The crust was lovely.  But what lurked beneath minded me more of galvanism and Mary Shelley.

 

Tonight I prepared the eye.  I gave it extra time on both sides and the edges.  The crust, if anything, was even more lovely, but what I would probably have sent back in a restaurant as raw.  Maybe my expectations just need calibrating?

 

Has anyone else tried this new sort of Angus?

This thread pretty much exhausts the possibilities for cooking a thick steak conventionally: http://forums.egulle... steak ducasse

 

I don't know about a new version of the Angus brand. I have noticed that the "choice" grade can encompass a lot, ranging from barely any marbling to something I'd easily mistake for prime.

 

They're not really telling you anything when they call it aged. All beef is aged a couple of weeks or so. In most cases it's aged in cryovac packaging (in this case it would be the retail packaging too). This is wet aging. It increases tenderness but doesn't develop the kinds of flavors you get from dry aging.

 

My vague sense of the Angus brand is that is has to do more with an independent set of quality standards than with anything special about the breed of cow. And of course it's a marketing consortium.



#54 btbyrd

btbyrd
  • participating member
  • 364 posts

Posted 04 January 2015 - 03:18 PM

Tonight I prepared the eye.  I gave it extra time on both sides and the edges.  The crust, if anything, was even more lovely, but what I would probably have sent back in a restaurant as raw.  Maybe my expectations just need calibrating?

 

Like others have suggested, the problem seems to be with the technique rather than with the meat itself. Did you cook it straight from the fridge or did you let it sit out for an hour or so? If you're just searing the steak on both sides, even a deep seer won't be enough to cook the interior, especially on thicker cuts. It's much better to sear on both sides and transfer to a low oven. If you're just cooking one steak and you can babysit it, you can do the Heston method and cook it in a scorching hot pan, turning every 15 or 20 seconds.

 


  • gfweb likes this

#55 rotuts

rotuts
  • participating member
  • 7,409 posts
  • Location:Boston MA

Posted 04 January 2015 - 03:55 PM

"""  problem seems to be with the technique rather than with the meat itself """

 

fair enough.

 

however, Ill add this :

 

one might bring what you have purchased to it  best potential,

 

but well with respect, you cant make it more than at its best it might be.

 

there are more elemental ways to say this but ....

 

on the other hand, learn with whats Cheap and on sale.

 

then Move Up and enjoy.



#56 JoNorvelleWalker

JoNorvelleWalker
  • participating member
  • 2,689 posts
  • Location:New Jersey USA

Posted 04 January 2015 - 04:40 PM

Through a bit of googling I answered much of my own question.  This is the brand of angus that I bought:

 

http://www.buckheadbeef.com

 

 

I must say the buckhead angus was better than regular angus.  I generally don't find much difference between regular angus and the store brand beef, certainly not enough to be worth the price premium for angus.

 

But the buckhead angus is twice the price of regular angus, even more than the cost of Australian beef.



#57 paulraphael

paulraphael
  • participating member
  • 3,283 posts

Posted 04 January 2015 - 05:42 PM

The stovetop-to-oven method works well, but can take a while to dial in (you can't see what's going on in an oven). I believe this method evolved to make best use of the limited burner space at restaurants. If you don't face those recommendations, there are ways to get results that are at least as good on the stove.

 

Heston's method should work well. So does the Ducasse method (at the beginning of the thread I linked above). Easiest of all is to start in a blazing pan with high heat oil and sear both sides. Then pour off the oil, and turn the heat very low. Add butter. Flip the steak every minute or two, and keep basting it with the browning butter. The temperature gradient won't be as minute as with a sous-vide steak, but it should be pretty unintrusive. 


Edited by paulraphael, 04 January 2015 - 05:47 PM.


#58 JoNorvelleWalker

JoNorvelleWalker
  • participating member
  • 2,689 posts
  • Location:New Jersey USA

Posted 04 January 2015 - 08:07 PM

The stovetop-to-oven method works well, but can take a while to dial in (you can't see what's going on in an oven). I believe this method evolved to make best use of the limited burner space at restaurants. If you don't face those recommendations, there are ways to get results that are at least as good on the stove.

 

Heston's method should work well. So does the Ducasse method (at the beginning of the thread I linked above). Easiest of all is to start in a blazing pan with high heat oil and sear both sides. Then pour off the oil, and turn the heat very low. Add butter. Flip the steak every minute or two, and keep basting it with the browning butter. The temperature gradient won't be as minute as with a sous-vide steak, but it should be pretty unintrusive. 

 

You may have noticed I am a participant in the Ducasse thread.  That is my favorite method as long as the steak is thick enough.  For me the Ducasse method doesn't work that well with normal sized steaks.  I don't eat much meat at a sitting, though I did see a nice looking buckhead angus cowboy rib steak tonight.  Reminded me of a small rib roast.  I didn't buy it, but I'm sure it would have been delightful by the Ducasse method.

 

In my hands sous vide steak turns out pretty, but totally dried out.  I don't think sous vide works that well with tender beef.


Edited by JoNorvelleWalker, 04 January 2015 - 08:09 PM.


#59 paulraphael

paulraphael
  • participating member
  • 3,283 posts

Posted 04 January 2015 - 09:50 PM

Sorry, I haven't re-read that thread in a long time. The other stovetop methods mentioned in the thread are less dependent on a hugely thick piece of meat (but I find that at least 1.25" is helpful).

 

I'm still curious about your SV results. They're not typical.


  • gfweb likes this

#60 weedy

weedy
  • participating member
  • 266 posts

Posted 06 January 2015 - 10:09 AM

the "hip hype" is about both what's better for them, and about what's better for us (when/if we eat them)... not about what they'd "prefer"

 

just as quiet1 said: humans 'prefer' sugary foods... that doesn't mean it's better for them, or that suggesting it's not is 'hip hype'