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Pate de Fruit and ganache double layer


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18 replies to this topic

#1 mrk

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 06:19 AM

Hi, recently I try make double layer strawberry pate de Fruit and ganache by ANDREW SHOTTS, but I make pate de fruit layer have a problem, I pour pate de fruit mixture into frame and bottom with plastic wrap, the pate de fruit after freeze is soft and too stick with plastic wrap, so hard to cut and the pate de fruit stick on my kinfe, I use 140g strawberry puree(boiron) 119g granulated sugar 14g g pectin

 

How can make pate de Fruit firm easy to cut? Thank



#2 mkayahara

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 06:30 AM

What temperature did you cook it to?


Matthew Kayahara
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#3 teonzo

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 06:46 AM

Most probably you need to add some acid too, otherwise pectin won't gel properly.

 

 

 

Teo


My new blog: http://www.teonzo.com/

#4 minas6907

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 08:47 AM

I dont think they need to add acod in this case, the first post said they are using g pectin, thats has the acid already in the mixture. You pretty much mix with puree and boil for a few minutes.

#5 Matthew Kirshner

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 10:49 AM

I never heard of g pectin?  I have always use apple pectin for pate a fruits. 



#6 minas6907

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 01:35 PM

I believe g pectin was developed by Andrew Shotts, you can find it on chef rubber. Its easier to use, but you have (in me opinion) less control over the whole batch. Plus its much more expensive per ounce when you factor in how much g pectin you need to make a batch of pate de fruit vs how much apple pectin you need to make a same sized batch.

#7 Alleguede

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 04:06 PM

Hi,

I second the température of the recipe. You need to bring it to 107c I think..
If you use regular apple pectine. Then you need 3g of citric acide

#8 ChocoMom

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 05:27 PM

Hi mrk.

 

  I've done this Shotts' recipe several times with great success.  I did not use G Pectin.  Opted instead for apple pectin.  And, added a bit of tartaric acid. I made my own raspberry puree, also.  I cooked it exactly as stated in the book, whisked the heck out of it.  Seemed a little too soft the first time, so I did another round, adding in a wee bit of corn starch into the sugar to help firm things up.  Worked like a charm.  I might have froze it a bit too long, but, had no major problem with it.  It definitely needs to sit overnight after you cube it, so it has time to develop that little "skin" before its enrobed.   (I'm trying this with thimbleberries this summer. Can't wait until they're ripe!!!!)

 

The only criticism I received on this came from several customers, and that was "the wasabi wasn't strong enough".  ???   I tried explaining that the flavors are supposed to compliment one another, not compete.  But, apparently these customers really like "pow" and competition. So, I used 1/4 tsp of the real wasabi powder (maybe a smidge more), activated it with a few drops of water, and solved the problem.  

 Had the same criticism on Shotts'  South of the Border recipe. The oil just did not do the job.  Ended up infusing habaneros- seeds and all-  right into the HWC, straining with cheesecloth, and finally got it right---according to the hot-n-spicy-pepper loving crowd.  (Grab some chemistry goggles if you decide to go that route, btw. I learned the hard way.) 

 

I'd give the PdF another go, check the temp, and whisk until you can whisk no more. HTH..

Andrea



#9 mrk

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 11:44 PM

What temperature did you cook it to?

temperature about 100C to boil



#10 mrk

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 11:47 PM

I believe g pectin was developed by Andrew Shotts, you can find it on chef rubber. Its easier to use, but you have (in me opinion) less control over the whole batch. Plus its much more expensive per ounce when you factor in how much g pectin you need to make a batch of pate de fruit vs how much apple pectin you need to make a same sized batch.

I use apple pectin also, and mix with puree and boil for 2 minutes follow on the book



#11 mrk

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 11:54 PM

Hi mrk.

 

  I've done this Shotts' recipe several times with great success.  I did not use G Pectin.  Opted instead for apple pectin.  And, added a bit of tartaric acid. I made my own raspberry puree, also.  I cooked it exactly as stated in the book, whisked the heck out of it.  Seemed a little too soft the first time, so I did another round, adding in a wee bit of corn starch into the sugar to help firm things up.  Worked like a charm.  I might have froze it a bit too long, but, had no major problem with it.  It definitely needs to sit overnight after you cube it, so it has time to develop that little "skin" before its enrobed.   (I'm trying this with thimbleberries this summer. Can't wait until they're ripe!!!!)

 

The only criticism I received on this came from several customers, and that was "the wasabi wasn't strong enough".  ???   I tried explaining that the flavors are supposed to compliment one another, not compete.  But, apparently these customers really like "pow" and competition. So, I used 1/4 tsp of the real wasabi powder (maybe a smidge more), activated it with a few drops of water, and solved the problem.  

 Had the same criticism on Shotts'  South of the Border recipe. The oil just did not do the job.  Ended up infusing habaneros- seeds and all-  right into the HWC, straining with cheesecloth, and finally got it right---according to the hot-n-spicy-pepper loving crowd.  (Grab some chemistry goggles if you decide to go that route, btw. I learned the hard way.) 

 

I'd give the PdF another go, check the temp, and whisk until you can whisk no more. HTH..

Andrea

I use apple pectin also, your mean is add a bit tartaric acid into puree and sugar mixture to get it firm? but I'm haven't  tartaric acid so could you have another method? and you froze it overnight? but when you take over room temperature would happen dewdrops



#12 keychris

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 04:20 AM

temperature about 100C to boil

 

This isn't hot enough, take it to ... 107C from memory.

 

Oh, Alleguarde said it above. Should firm up nicely then :)



#13 ChocoMom

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 07:28 AM

I use apple pectin also, your mean is add a bit tartaric acid into puree and sugar mixture to get it firm? but I'm haven't  tartaric acid so could you have another method? and you froze it overnight? but when you take over room temperature would happen dewdrops

 

Here is what I went through on the second attempt with the PdF:

 

I added the tartaric acid to the puree, yes. I had read (can't remember where) that it would help the thickening process, and I happened to have some on hand.  One source said malic acid would work also. (I did not try that, and I didn't have any at the time.  I also had citric acid somewhere in my canning room, but I was too lazy to go find it at the time.)   But the tartaric acid brought out the raspberry flavor extremely well. Since I added extra cornstarch into the sugar, I believe the acid also helped compensate for the bland flavor that cornstarch tends to produce when added in as a thickener.  (This was more of an experiment at the time, and I did not measure properly when I did it. Otherwise, I'd be more precise.)   

 

No, I did not freeze it over night. I think the recipe had said to chill for 20-30 min, but I think I actually set it in the freezer unintentionally rather than the fridge- for a couple hours.  (I get distracted a lot.)   Once I remembered to pull it out, I added the ganache layer; froze it for a few hours  (its only supposed to be an hour..but--life happens, so it sat there a while longer.) I added the foot; and honestly, it did not need to freeze for another hour. Just a few minutes, until it was solid.

Then, I measured, cut, and let the cubes set overnight to dry.

 

I have a separate kitchen solely dedicated to making confections, with a dehumidifier and separate AC unit.  Temp stays around 65-67F; humidity is less than 30% in here, so any dewdrops/condensation disappeared very quickly. In 12 hours, they were completely dry to the touch.

 

The next day, I proceeded to enrobe them, and then swipe pink luster dust across the top, diagonally. The last couple times I've made this, I used the Roxy & Rich pink quartz cocoa butter for the décor.  It produces a lovely, vivid finish on the dark chocolate.

 

All that being said, the cooking temp is really the key factor. Mine went a little above the 107C mark (accidentally). Keeping the mixture constantly moving so it did not burn was a challenge for me.   

 

I will say, that this one is truly worth the time and effort you put into it, so don't give up!  I was extremely surprised at how quickly these flew out of the case. HTH...



#14 mrk

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 11:19 PM

This isn't hot enough, take it to ... 107C from memory.

 

Oh, Alleguarde said it above. Should firm up nicely then :)

my procedure follow Shotts' recipe and add your advice :

1. 70g fruit puree and 30g sugar mixture and boil

2. add 7g apple pectin and 30 sugar mixture into puree mixture(step1) biol to 102C( because it is very stick and I think it will burn) 

 

result:

the pate de Fruit is firm but the mouth feel have a little bit rough, not melt in your mouth, if I take cooking temperature a bit below can make good result?

 

could you share your making pate de Fruit procedure for me reference? Thank



#15 mrk

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 11:43 PM

Here is what I went through on the second attempt with the PdF:

 

I added the tartaric acid to the puree, yes. I had read (can't remember where) that it would help the thickening process, and I happened to have some on hand.  One source said malic acid would work also. (I did not try that, and I didn't have any at the time.  I also had citric acid somewhere in my canning room, but I was too lazy to go find it at the time.)   But the tartaric acid brought out the raspberry flavor extremely well. Since I added extra cornstarch into the sugar, I believe the acid also helped compensate for the bland flavor that cornstarch tends to produce when added in as a thickener.  (This was more of an experiment at the time, and I did not measure properly when I did it. Otherwise, I'd be more precise.)   

 

No, I did not freeze it over night. I think the recipe had said to chill for 20-30 min, but I think I actually set it in the freezer unintentionally rather than the fridge- for a couple hours.  (I get distracted a lot.)   Once I remembered to pull it out, I added the ganache layer; froze it for a few hours  (its only supposed to be an hour..but--life happens, so it sat there a while longer.) I added the foot; and honestly, it did not need to freeze for another hour. Just a few minutes, until it was solid.

Then, I measured, cut, and let the cubes set overnight to dry.

 

I have a separate kitchen solely dedicated to making confections, with a dehumidifier and separate AC unit.  Temp stays around 65-67F; humidity is less than 30% in here, so any dewdrops/condensation disappeared very quickly. In 12 hours, they were completely dry to the touch.

 

The next day, I proceeded to enrobe them, and then swipe pink luster dust across the top, diagonally. The last couple times I've made this, I used the Roxy & Rich pink quartz cocoa butter for the décor.  It produces a lovely, vivid finish on the dark chocolate.

 

All that being said, the cooking temp is really the key factor. Mine went a little above the 107C mark (accidentally). Keeping the mixture constantly moving so it did not burn was a challenge for me.   

 

I will say, that this one is truly worth the time and effort you put into it, so don't give up!  I was extremely surprised at how quickly these flew out of the case. HTH...

Thank you Chocomom

 

But in my area can't buy tartaric acid so I can't use your method, and sometime saw Shotts' recipe have a bit confusion because he always froze ganache or chocolate but I know that have bloom risk, my work place haven't good temperature and humidity control



#16 keychris

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 04:07 PM

my procedure follow Shotts' recipe and add your advice :

1. 70g fruit puree and 30g sugar mixture and boil

2. add 7g apple pectin and 30 sugar mixture into puree mixture(step1) biol to 102C( because it is very stick and I think it will burn) 

 

result:

the pate de Fruit is firm but the mouth feel have a little bit rough, not melt in your mouth, if I take cooking temperature a bit below can make good result?

 

could you share your making pate de Fruit procedure for me reference? Thank

 

That seems like a lot of pectin to add for that small amount of puree.

 

mine is very easy, if a slightly larger batch size than yours:

 

6g tartaric (or citric) acid

43g caster sugar (1)

3.5g pectin

516g cassis puree

504g caster sugar (2)

156g glucose

 

dissolve the acid in a small amount of boiling water. Combine the sugar (1) and the pectin. Boil the puree and dissolved acid, add the pectin/sugar. Return to the boil, add sugar (2), return to boil, add glucose. Cook over high heat to 107C, whisking continuously.

 

pour into frame, leave to set. This doesn't require any refrigeration to set. It's important that the puree stays at the boil whilst you add the two sugars, you can warm them in the oven for a little while before you add them so the temperature difference is not so great.

 

HTH


Edited by keychris, 08 June 2014 - 04:18 PM.


#17 mrk

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 02:55 AM

That seems like a lot of pectin to add for that small amount of puree.

 

mine is very easy, if a slightly larger batch size than yours:

 

6g tartaric (or citric) acid

43g caster sugar (1)

3.5g pectin

516g cassis puree

504g caster sugar (2)

156g glucose

 

dissolve the acid in a small amount of boiling water. Combine the sugar (1) and the pectin. Boil the puree and dissolved acid, add the pectin/sugar. Return to the boil, add sugar (2), return to boil, add glucose. Cook over high heat to 107C, whisking continuously.

 

pour into frame, leave to set. This doesn't require any refrigeration to set. It's important that the puree stays at the boil whilst you add the two sugars, you can warm them in the oven for a little while before you add them so the temperature difference is not so great.

 

HTH

Thank Keychris

 

I test so use small batch, if I use 140g puree, how much pectin that I use? and I haven't tartaric or citric acid, in my area hard to found it, I try follow your advice. do you make it in chocolate also? what about mouth feel?



#18 Droo

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Posted 21 June 2014 - 04:52 AM

mrk,

 

I too made pdf which was too sticky. I used a recipe similar to Chris' above. Note that different fruits used will use slightly different ratios to get to the correct pH.

 

The tips I was told were:

Getting the correct pH is important - Tartaric acid (and I presume citric as well will work) helps gel the pdf which reduces the stickiness.

It is also important to get to 107 celsius.

 

I was recommended that to reduce the stickiness, I needed to ensure i used the acid and whisk like there is no tomorrow.

 

Ive used a couple of different pectins as well - a NH pectin which produced a softer pdf and citris pectin. I'd recommend the citrus.

 

I'd try and source the acid from the net if you can't get it from your supermarket.



#19 mrk

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 07:02 AM

mrk,

 

I too made pdf which was too sticky. I used a recipe similar to Chris' above. Note that different fruits used will use slightly different ratios to get to the correct pH.

 

The tips I was told were:

Getting the correct pH is important - Tartaric acid (and I presume citric as well will work) helps gel the pdf which reduces the stickiness.

It is also important to get to 107 celsius.

 

I was recommended that to reduce the stickiness, I needed to ensure i used the acid and whisk like there is no tomorrow.

 

Ive used a couple of different pectins as well - a NH pectin which produced a softer pdf and citris pectin. I'd recommend the citrus.

 

I'd try and source the acid from the net if you can't get it from your supermarket.

Thanks Droo