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Looking for a Non-alcoholic Substitute for Newcastle Nut Brown Ale


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18 replies to this topic

#1 Porthos

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 01:32 PM

I use a recipe from a friend for tri-tip that is very popular with my ren faire friends. Cut tri-tip into approximately 5 oz servings. Place about 2 1l2 to 3 pounds of meat into a ziploc. Pour a cup of Yohsida's Gourmet Sauce and a 12 oz of bottle of Newcastle Nut Brown Ale into the bag and a generous handful of garlic cloves.  Allow to marinate for 3-4 hours. Grill the meat until medium rare and enjoy.

 

Here's the problem. In respect for those who will be eating the meal this is served with who are in recovery from an addiction to alcohol I want to substitute something for the Newcastle. Some of my friends in recovery are sensitive to the taste of alcoholic beverages used in cooking and I want them to be able to eat without any issues.

 

I have not come up with any reasonable ideas for a substitute and am reaching out to eGullet for ideas. Cost is an issue. The substitute can't really cost more that a 6-pack of Newcastles.

 

Any suggestions?

 

edited to fix a typo.


Edited by Porthos, 07 May 2014 - 01:33 PM.

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#2 Smithy

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 01:49 PM

I think under the circumstances you wouldn't want it to even taste like there was ale, even if there wasn't. What about substituting a good flavorful beef broth? Or, er, I'm thinking out loud now...what if you were to mix a cola or, er, Dr. Pepper? with that beef broth? You'd get some carbonation and a lower pH, and those might help mimic the activity of the nut brown ale marinade without actually tasting like it.

If this sounds like an appalling idea, I'll plead ignorance of the flavor of Yoshida's Gourmet Sauce. ;-)

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#3 Porthos

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 02:10 PM

RE: Yoshida's - think of something between soy sauce and teriyaki sauce.


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#4 Smithy

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 02:19 PM

RE: Yoshida's - think of something between soy sauce and teriyaki sauce.


Hmm, you probably wouldn't want the sweetness of a cola, then. Still, I think some additional acid with beef broth might help. Hmm.

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#5 Kerry Beal

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 02:47 PM

Can you get Malta?



#6 David Hensley

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 02:48 PM

Honestly, I'd just change over to another recipe, if the recovering alcoholics really have that kind of issue with it.

 

Or, barring a change in the recipe, just boil the hell out of it! Alcohol completely evaporates well before water boils, so a quick, but hellish boiling should solve the problem....


I'm a lifelong professional chef. If that doesn't explain some of my mental and emotional quirks, maybe you should see a doctor, and have some of yours examined...


#7 Kerry Beal

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 02:56 PM

 

Or, barring a change in the recipe, just boil the hell out of it! Alcohol completely evaporates well before water boils, so a quick, but hellish boiling should solve the problem....

Sadly - a quick vicious boil won't remove the alcohol.



#8 Smithy

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 03:09 PM

Or, barring a change in the recipe, just boil the hell out of it! Alcohol completely evaporates well before water boils, so a quick, but hellish boiling should solve the problem....


Boiling can remove much of the alcohol, but not all of it unless the pan is boiled dry. It's true that ethanol has a lower boiling point than water, and will evaporate much more quickly than water as long as the two are not mixed. Once they're mixed, however, it's nearly impossible to get them unmixed again for chemical reasons that were the subject of more than one class period. Here's one reference to what the USDA has to say about it: http://homecooking.a...blalcohol12.htm

Nancy Smith, aka "Smithy"
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"There comes a time in every project when you have to shoot the engineer and start production." -- author unknown


#9 heidih

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 03:24 PM

That Yoshida sauce sounds pretty intense and probably masks the majority of any beery hoppy malty addition. It has been my experience that folks in recovery are more put off by the flavor/smell of the booze rather than being super-tasters of alcohol. With that in mind I would not attempt to mimic the beer. Considering the strong character  of the Y sauce I would just add a touch of acid like orange juice as previously noted. Or even some ginger juice or gingerale but watch the sugar content. You have roundness already with the soy and the sugar. 


Edited by heidih, 07 May 2014 - 03:25 PM.


#10 Tri2Cook

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 03:55 PM

Maybe some barley malt syrup.


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#11 Porthos

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 04:16 PM

Honestly, I'd just change over to another recipe, if the recovering alcoholics really have that kind of issue with it..

SInce I am a long-time 12-stepper for a different issue I care very much about not putting a stumbling stone in someone's path. It is not not that they "have an issue with it." They trust me to discretely warn them when I do use alcohol so I already have one avenue available to me if I do use beer.  I am looking for a way to still do something close to the recipe that uses the beer but based upon the absence of beer they can enjoy also.


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#12 Porthos

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 04:19 PM

Can you get Malta?

I have never heard of it but I can look around. I have until the 15th to finalize what I am doing and get the ingredients.

 

edited to fix a typo. Boy are my proof-reading skills absent today.


Edited by Porthos, 07 May 2014 - 04:20 PM.

Porthos Potwatcher
The Unrelenting Carnivore
"If every pork chop was perfect, we wouldn't have hot dogs." (source unknown)
Customer to clerk in a clothing store, "Do you have these in a size for people who actually eat?"


#13 Corymoto

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 04:23 PM

How about (dry) malt extract (purchased from a homebrew shop)? It's in your price range. Lots of options there. You'd probably need to experiment a bit.
You could even steep a small amount of hops (probably a noble type that's not too intense) in some water/stock/liquid (perhaps do a quick infusion via whipper) to go along with it. I think the Cooking Issues podcast has mentioned a "hop tincture" made via that method at one point or another (although I think they are going for a very hoppy flavor. Newcastle isn't exactly "very hoppy"...).


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#14 David Hensley

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 10:44 PM

SInce I am a long-time 12-stepper for a different issue I care very much about not putting a stumbling stone in someone's path. It is not not that they "have an issue with it." They trust me to discretely warn them when I do use alcohol so I already have one avenue available to me if I do use beer.  I am looking for a way to still do something close to the recipe that uses the beer but based upon the absence of beer they can enjoy also.

No offense was intended, and I do apologize.


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I'm a lifelong professional chef. If that doesn't explain some of my mental and emotional quirks, maybe you should see a doctor, and have some of yours examined...


#15 suzilightning

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 09:01 AM

as someone in recovery thank you for thinking about issues...with a spouse who homebrews my first thought was malta with some good dry hops to simulate the flavor without the alcohol content.

 

and please don't use the "non-alcoholic" beers.... though the percentage is about .5 % it is still enough to trigger some.


Edited by suzilightning, 08 May 2014 - 09:03 AM.

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#16 btbyrd

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 10:05 PM

If the alcohol is only used in a marinade and will not be used in a sauce, I don't think it's really necessary to worry about it since you'll be grilling the meat and that will destroy anything alcoholic on the surface of the meat. If you're really concerned about it, you could marinade the meat and then dry it off before grilling it and then baste with Yoshida sauce while it's finishing up. If that's not acceptable, I'd second Smithy's suggestion of using cola or beef stock (or both) in the marinade in the place of beer. And if that's not acceptable, I'd just use another recipe. There's more than one way to cook a tri-tip.



#17 cdh

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Posted 09 May 2014 - 12:34 PM

Hmmm... since what you'd get out of a Newcastle is a bit of maltiness, you might just go to the source and grab some malt of the right variety from your local homebrew store and crush that and let it steep in some warm water and add that to your marinade.  The recipes out there seem to call for Crystal 60L and Chocolate malts... I'd grab a half ounce of each, run them through a coffee grinder, put them in the bottom of a pint glass, and fill the glass up with water at 160F... stir it up, let it settle, and pour off the liquid into your marinade. That way you get the flavoring malts, but none of the booze.   Maltas seem much too sweet for this purpose, as do malt syrups and powders... And I don't think you'll miss the hops in a marinade either...


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#18 Porthos

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Posted 09 May 2014 - 12:43 PM

Thank you all for your input. After more consideration and conversation with my DW I am going to proceed with the Newcastle and advise those who need to know that is an alcoholic ingredient. One friend in particular who just had his 18th sobriety birthday only has to taste that alcoholic beverage that was used, even with the alcohol long gone, to put temptation in his path. He knows his limits in life and I support that wholeheartedly.


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Porthos Potwatcher
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Customer to clerk in a clothing store, "Do you have these in a size for people who actually eat?"


#19 rotuts

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Posted 09 May 2014 - 12:54 PM

I dont know much about this 

 

but Im pleased you are being very considerate.

 

back in the day there was an organic place with in walking distance to me

 

way before organic became Organic

 

and they had various syrups that were malt based.

 

as other posters said

 

look for that.

 

after all, once you make it, they will Come and Eat

 

and have no memories of the Original Rx

 

i say that with Respect  

 

:smile: