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Minimalist No-Knead Bread Technique (Part 2)


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#61 Jane Die

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Posted 07 November 2007 - 02:35 PM

I think you'll find it's well worth the trouble, for the depth of flavor and keeping qualities alone.

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I will certainly give it a try! I'm going to scour the RecipeGullet for a sourdough starter. I'll look for a sourdough thread here at eG and post a pic of my progress (or lack thereof)! I'd love to figure this out before the holidays.

#62 sanrensho

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Posted 07 November 2007 - 02:48 PM

I will certainly give it a try! I'm going to scour the RecipeGullet for a sourdough starter. I'll look for a sourdough thread here at eG and post a pic of my progress (or lack thereof)! I'd love to figure this out before the holidays.

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Instructions for a sourdough starter are covered in Dan Lepard's eGullet course here:

http://forums.egulle...showtopic=30269

I used a different method (this one), but I have baked the basic sourdough recipe from the eGullet course and can recommend it.
Baker of "impaired" cakes...

#63 kiliki

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Posted 07 November 2007 - 04:22 PM

I'm going to try that starter too--this bread is so easy, but for me, it just doesn't have any flavor.

I haven't read through this whole thread to see if this has been discussed, but Jeffrey Steingarten's modifications of this recipe make a better loaf. His recipe appeared in Vogue but I'll be it's out there, online.

#64 Special K

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Posted 07 November 2007 - 04:32 PM

I made a loaf the other day with about a quarter-cup of asiago cheese shaved right into the dough at the beginning. I never even bother to turn the dough - I just scrape the whole thing into my hot Romertopf after 18 hours of sitting there, top with a little salt or sesame seeds, and it does just fine. Next loaf will have rosemary added in as well. I've given this recipe to several friends who never in a million years would've seen themselves baking anything, much less a really good loaf of bread. They've reported fantastic sucess.

Now, on to that skillet pizza!

#65 Jane Die

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Posted 07 November 2007 - 04:51 PM

Special K, the addition of asiago cheese sounds great. I'll have to give that a try on my next loaf.

Sanrensho, I'm going to try the Wild Yeast Sourdough Starter. Thanks for sharing those links with me!

Kiliki, I'm going to look for Steingarten's mods, because I do think the flavor could be improved, and I thought the rye would do that but sadly it didn't.

What I'm looking for is a flavor and texture like pugliese, with all the effort of the no-knead. :raz: Maybe Steingarten is on to something. I'll research.

#66 sanrensho

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Posted 07 November 2007 - 05:04 PM

Sanrensho, I'm going to try the Wild Yeast Sourdough Starter. Thanks for sharing those links with me!


I wish you good luck with your starter.

Just to let you know, it took a full 5-6 weeks (including a week of dormancy in the fridge) before I had a really active and foamy starter. And it could still be more active, but it seems to be sufficient. So don't be discouraged if your starter is only bubbly in the initial weeks.

Edited by sanrensho, 07 November 2007 - 05:05 PM.

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#67 llc45

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Posted 07 November 2007 - 07:15 PM


I'm going to try that starter too--this bread is so easy, but for me, it just doesn't have any flavor. 

I haven't read through this whole thread to see if this has been discussed, but Jeffrey Steingarten's modifications of this recipe make a better loaf. His recipe appeared in Vogue but I'll be it's out there, online.

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What modifications did Jeffrey Steingarten make? I found one reference for it where it looks like the proportions are changed slightly. Does this give it more flavor? I am still looking for affordable smaller pot because the one I am using is making too flat a loaf.

#68 Joe Blowe

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Posted 07 November 2007 - 07:52 PM

The 48 hour rise is intriguing . . I'm assuming it helps to develop more flavour?

Yes, I believe it does help the flavor a bit. It's nothing approaching sourdough, but more along the lines of a biga. A touch more complex. And, I should clarify that my experimental loaves are 48 hours in the fridge in addition to 12 to 16 hours on the counter. I've hit the sweet spot a couple of times, but I continue to play around with the timing.

What modifications did Jeffrey Steingarten make?

If you Google Vogue bread "easy riser", you'll come across this blog entry. The ingredients remain the same, but, as you pointed out, the proportions changed slightly...

And, again, I agree that this recipe does not approach the complexity of sourdough flavor, but I don't believe it was ever meant to do that. It's better than your basic grocery store schlock (of which I've purchased about 4 loaves over the past 12 months :biggrin:), and it has spurred on a lot of people (including me) to expand their bread-baking horizons.
So we finish the eighteenth and he's gonna stiff me. And I say, "Hey, Lama, hey, how about a little something, you know, for the effort, you know." And he says, "Oh, uh, there won't be any money. But when you die, on your deathbed, you will receive total consciousness."

So I got that goin' for me, which is nice.

#69 kiliki

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Posted 08 November 2007 - 10:28 AM

What modifications did Jeffrey Steingarten make? I found one reference for it where it looks like the proportions are changed slightly. Does this give it more flavor?


Ditto what Joe Blowe said. It's doesn't have more flavor, except that it has the proper amount of salt (the original Bittman recipe was undersalted IMO), but it makes a nicer looking, better rising loaf.

I am still looking for affordable smaller pot because the one I am using is making too flat a loaf.


Before you spend the money try making Steingarten's loaf (it rises more)--my first loaves, from Bittman's recipe, were pretty flat, and I used the right size Le Creuset.

#70 Wholemeal Crank

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Posted 19 November 2007 - 12:08 AM

Tried a batch today for the first time in a while, and this time I tried a smaller pot. I'd been looking for a heavy pot between 3 and 4 quarts, because my 5 quart dutch oven makes a very spread out loaf. I bought a cute corning ceramic pot of about 2 quarts to see what that would do, and it was definitely too small. Their is a dent in the top of the loaf corresponding to the bottom of the lid. Oops.

Still haven't encountered a clay pot or sandy pot that looked right, but now I have a better idea of what is too small.

#71 weinoo

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Posted 19 November 2007 - 06:46 AM

Still haven't encountered a clay pot or sandy pot that looked right, but now I have a better idea of what is too small.

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Do you think a clay pot or a sandy pot (if you're talking about the Asian cooking vessels) can take the heat needed? Especially when throwing a room temperature proofed dough into said pot?

It does seem that for this recipe, a 3 to 4 quart sized dutch oven is the right size.
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#72 honeye22

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Posted 19 November 2007 - 10:15 AM

Still haven't encountered a clay pot or sandy pot that looked right, but now I have a better idea of what is too small.

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Do you think a clay pot or a sandy pot (if you're talking about the Asian cooking vessels) can take the heat needed? Especially when throwing a room temperature proofed dough into said pot?

It does seem that for this recipe, a 3 to 4 quart sized dutch oven is the right size.

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Hi all, I hope you can help me with this recipe. I tried to spice my loaf up the first time I made it this weekend, and used wheat flour and added oats and honey. My dough wasn't "sticky and shaggy" as the recipe said it was, it was very dense and dry. When I baked the loaf, it didn't rise or anything. It tasted really good, but I'm wondering if I needed to add more water because of the oats? A friend told me I added too much water, but I think it was the exact opposite...I'd like to make a loaf or 2 for Thanksgiving, so any help you can give would be much appreciated.
"No matter where ya go, there ya are....and there ya go!"

#73 Poffertjes

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Posted 19 November 2007 - 10:21 AM

I made it this weekend, and used wheat flour and added oats and honey.  My dough wasn't "sticky and shaggy" as the recipe said it was, it was very dense and dry. When I baked the loaf, it didn't rise or anything.  It tasted really good, but I'm wondering if I needed to add more water because of the oats? 



Wheat flour does require more water, because it sucks it up.
When I've used wheat, I did a mix of wheat and white flour. Usually 1/3 wheat, the rest white.

You should make the basic recipe, so you can get used to the feel of the dough before you start getting fancy. :raz:

#74 weinoo

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Posted 19 November 2007 - 10:28 AM

Hi all, I hope you can help me with this recipe.  I tried to spice my loaf up the first time I made it this weekend, and used wheat flour and added oats and honey.  My dough wasn't "sticky and shaggy" as the recipe said it was, it was very dense and dry. When I baked the loaf, it didn't rise or anything.  It tasted really good, but I'm wondering if I needed to add more water because of the oats?  A friend told me I added too much water, but I think it was the exact opposite...I'd like to make a loaf or 2 for Thanksgiving, so any help you can give would be much appreciated.

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Perhaps the oats should be soaked separately overnight before adding them to the dough...there's no doubt that they will soak up a tremendous amount of water if they're just added "as is."

Wheat flour also requires more water - and your dense and dry loaf probably indicates the need for same.
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#75 Beanie

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Posted 19 November 2007 - 11:09 AM

Still haven't encountered a clay pot or sandy pot that looked right, but now I have a better idea of what is too small.

View Post

Do you think a clay pot or a sandy pot (if you're talking about the Asian cooking vessels) can take the heat needed? Especially when throwing a room temperature proofed dough into said pot?

It does seem that for this recipe, a 3 to 4 quart sized dutch oven is the right size.

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See my post about using Asian clay pot.
Ilene

#76 Poffertjes

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Posted 19 November 2007 - 11:53 AM

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Perhaps the oats should be soaked separately overnight before adding them to the dough...there's no doubt that they will soak up a tremendous amount of water if they're just added "as is."

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Or add the oats when you first turn out the bread. Thats when I add raisins, when I use this recipe to make raisin bread. Then you don't have to worry about them sucking up water.

#77 honeye22

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Posted 20 November 2007 - 09:29 AM

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Perhaps the oats should be soaked separately overnight before adding them to the dough...there's no doubt that they will soak up a tremendous amount of water if they're just added "as is."

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Or add the oats when you first turn out the bread. Thats when I add raisins, when I use this recipe to make raisin bread. Then you don't have to worry about them sucking up water.

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Well, I mixed up two more batches of dough this morning and used a bit more water and I think I'm on the right track...dough was definitely "shaggy and sticky". Hopefully, when I get home I will have two glorious huge balls of dough ready to be baked!
"No matter where ya go, there ya are....and there ya go!"

#78 Special K

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Posted 20 November 2007 - 09:53 AM

Tried a batch today for the first time in a while, and this time I tried a smaller pot.  I'd been looking for a heavy pot between 3 and 4 quarts, because my 5 quart dutch oven makes a very spread out loaf.  I bought a cute corning ceramic pot of about 2 quarts to see what that would do, and it was definitely too small.  Their is a dent in the top of the loaf corresponding to the bottom of the lid.  Oops.

Still haven't encountered a clay pot or sandy pot that looked right, but now I have a better idea of what is too small.

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I posted elsewhere (the Le Creuset thread) that I bought four little 8 oz covered cocottes (stoneware, not cast iron) halved the recipe, filled each cocotte with a quarter of the dough, and baked (30 min at 500 degrees covered, then 40 minutes uncovered). Perfect little miniature rosemary asiago loaves! Cute as the dickens. Not sticky in the center, as some of my larger loaves have been, so I'd say the smaller the loaf the better.

#79 Joe Blowe

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Posted 20 November 2007 - 10:32 AM

...filled each cocotte with a quarter of the dough, and baked (30 min at 500 degrees covered, then 40 minutes uncovered).

Is that the correct time and temp? 1 hour 10 minutes at 500 degrees?
So we finish the eighteenth and he's gonna stiff me. And I say, "Hey, Lama, hey, how about a little something, you know, for the effort, you know." And he says, "Oh, uh, there won't be any money. But when you die, on your deathbed, you will receive total consciousness."

So I got that goin' for me, which is nice.

#80 Special K

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Posted 20 November 2007 - 11:00 AM

Is that the correct time and temp?  1 hour 10 minutes at 500 degrees?

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Umm, now you've got me wondering. I'm at work now - the notes I took on the recipe are at home. I'll check tonight. That doesn't sound right, does it? Probably I halved both times from the original recipe.

#81 honeye22

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Posted 21 November 2007 - 08:26 AM

Is that the correct time and temp?  1 hour 10 minutes at 500 degrees?

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Umm, now you've got me wondering. I'm at work now - the notes I took on the recipe are at home. I'll check tonight. That doesn't sound right, does it? Probably I halved both times from the original recipe.

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Well, it would appear that I overcompensated and added a bit too much water. The dough was a giant sticky mess, but the bread turned out marginally well. The crust is nice and crunchy, and it has a pretty good crumb, but was still a bit soggy in the middle. I've got a much drier dough at home resting so hopefully I will get it right in time for turkey day!
"No matter where ya go, there ya are....and there ya go!"

#82 Joe Blowe

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Posted 21 November 2007 - 01:33 PM

Another no-knead recipe has been published in today's NYT, titled Soon the Bread Will Be Making Itself. The recipe, adapted from "Artisan Bread in Five Minutes a Day," by Jeff Hertzberg and Zoë François, is reprinted here.

I'll be trying this out soon as I'm very curious to see how two-week old dough performs!
So we finish the eighteenth and he's gonna stiff me. And I say, "Hey, Lama, hey, how about a little something, you know, for the effort, you know." And he says, "Oh, uh, there won't be any money. But when you die, on your deathbed, you will receive total consciousness."

So I got that goin' for me, which is nice.

#83 eldereno

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Posted 21 November 2007 - 07:12 PM

Another no-knead recipe has been published in today's NYT, titled Soon the Bread Will Be Making Itself.  The recipe, adapted from "Artisan Bread in Five Minutes a Day," by Jeff Hertzberg and Zoë François, is reprinted here.


This looks quite intriguing. I will certainly be trying this recipe and, if successful, have a new cookbook in my future!!!!

I have made many recipes of the NKB since last year, 2 loaves to be baked first thing tomorrow morning. I agree that there should be some way to boost the flavor BUT they are still better (and greater appreciated by all those who share the loaves) than the typical grocery store fare. Never did bake bread before this recipe, though I own MANY books on bread baking. Always wanted to but found it way too intimidating. Give me another way of baking bread with little hands on, not too much advance planning, with good results....and I'm on board!
Donna

#84 ambra

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Posted 23 November 2007 - 04:42 AM

Hello All,

I am not a big baker and know nothing about baking bread, but reallllllly wanted to try this recipe. Where I live, the bread is delicious, but saltless (on purpose) and I am getting really bored of it!

I am however having trouble with the ingredients! Four supermarkets later, I cannot for the life of me find instant yeast as required for the recipe. It seems strange living in such a bread-centric part of the world (Italy) but alas.....

Maybe I will find it in a different city, but for now...this may be the single stupidest question on record as of yet, but like a said, I am a baking neophyte. Would the recipe work with fresh yeast? And if so, how much?

There is a however, a flour with instant yeast already in it. (?) I don't know what I think about it.

Also, I'm guessing I should use Grano Duro (translated to Hard Flour) in place of AP Flour as opposed to 00 flour which is used for pizza. Or not?

Any help would be greatly appreciated...Thank You. (I looked through all the pages and didn't find anything about fresh yeast, sorry if it's there.)

#85 baroness

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Posted 23 November 2007 - 06:35 AM

You will need more fresh yeast than the dry; the only bread recipe I could find quickly (not a no-knead bread) states 2 Tablespoons dry or 3 oz. fresh yeast . You'll have to handle the conversion to metric......
For flour, use the higher gluten type, the Grano Duro.

#86 ambra

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Posted 23 November 2007 - 08:53 AM

Thanks, so as long as I use the correct amount I can let it rise just as long as with the Instant Yeast?

#87 mhjoseph

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Posted 23 November 2007 - 09:53 AM

You will need more fresh yeast than the dry; the only bread recipe I could find quickly (not a no-knead bread) states 2 Tablespoons dry or 3 oz. fresh yeast . You'll have to handle the conversion to metric......
For flour, use the higher gluten type, the Grano Duro.

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Posted Image

I made the recipe, baking today from dough that's been in the fridge since Wednesday. They look gorgeous, I am saving them for guests tonight so I can't cut them open yet. Sorry about the blurry image, I took it on my Treo, but you get the idea.

The dough was quite wet and hard to work with. The boules spread out a lot and I thought they would be too flat but there was tremendous oven spring. I baked them 40 minutes out the fridge as the recipe called for.

Edited by mhjoseph, 23 November 2007 - 09:54 AM.


#88 Special K

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Posted 26 November 2007 - 08:51 AM

Regarding the little Le Creuset stoneware cocottes for the bread:

Is that the correct time and temp?  1 hour 10 minutes at 500 degrees?

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Umm, now you've got me wondering. I'm at work now - the notes I took on the recipe are at home. I'll check tonight. That doesn't sound right, does it? Probably I halved both times from the original recipe.

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Sorry this is so late - no computer access at home over the holidays. Yes, It was 20 minutes covered, and 30 minutes uncovered. And the cocottes are a cup and a half in volume.

#89 llc45

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Posted 01 December 2007 - 02:54 PM


Another no-knead recipe has been published in today's NYT, titled Soon the Bread Will Be Making Itself.  The recipe, adapted from "Artisan Bread in Five Minutes a Day," by Jeff Hertzberg and Zoë François, is reprinted here.

I'll be trying this out soon as I'm very curious to see how two-week old dough performs!

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I was so pleased with how the bread turned out that I ordered the book. Just received it in the mail - I am so excited. It has recipes for all different types of peasant bread, bagels, pizza crust, brioche, many sweet bread recipes (OK - I'll stop). I think I am going to try one of the wheat ones next.

The thing I love is that I can make 4 (or 8) at a time. I can make a loaf of bread, then a pizza crust, then a stromboli because I have premade dough ready to go. The first two loaves that I made from the NYT recipe didn't have a lot of sourdough flavor so I am waiting to make the next two to see how much flavor develops. One of the things that the book recommends to get more sourdough flavor is to mix the next batch right in the same bowl without washing. The old dough will then become the "sourdough" started for the new mixture.

Unfortunately, I am busy this next week or two but will definitely be trying many of the sweet breads and brioches as soon as I get time. For every day bread, I have been buying an organic wheat sourdough bread from a great local baker. Now I am going to see if I can get somewhat close with one of the peasant bread recipes that has wheat, rye, and white flour. I also see weekly pizza in my future!

#90 Ophey

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Posted 01 December 2007 - 04:32 PM

The Washington Post Food Section just had an article with some no-knead breads.

The article

Recipes:
Easy Slow-Rise, No-Knead Light Wheat (or White) Bread
Slow-Rise, No-Knead Cinnamon-Raisin Bread
Slow-Rise, No-Knead Rustic Caraway-Beer Bread
Slow-Rise, No-Knead Soft White (or Soft Light Wheat) Rolls

- Ophey