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Micro-barrel char


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#1 Hassouni

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 07:49 PM

So a while back I was graciously given an empty Clément 5L (I think?) barrel by the owner of my favorite bar in DC when I told him about my idea to barrel up WN overproof.

 

He told me it'd need to be charred. So I took the hoops off closest to the head to open it up and take a look at it (maybe not a brilliant idea since getting it back together will take some effort, but that's neither here nor there).

 

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Seems to me that is charred, or at least very heavily toasted, no? Or is that what a charred barrel looks like after something has been aged in it? Is that good enough to fill up with hot water to expand the wood, empty it out, then dump the rum in, or does it need re-charring?



#2 lesliec

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 08:28 PM

That would be a pre-charred barrel.  When winemakers want to re-use a barrel their coopers break it down, scrape off the char and anything else that might be sticking to it and re-char it.

 

I don't think W&N would be impressed by all this.  Just dump it in and taste every few weeks to see how it's going (the burden of scientific enquiry, alas, falls upon you).  You'll probably pick up some flavour from whatever was in there before, although not much, after the boiling water treatment.  Good luck.

 

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#3 scubadoo97

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 09:18 PM

Sure looks charred to me

You may need to soak it to hydrate the wood and create a good tight seal so you don't lose any spirits in this experiment

#4 lesliec

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 09:33 PM

Incidentally, and based on recent experience with a very small (2 litres) barrel, you may need more than one fill with hot water.  Just keep doing it until the thing stops leaking.  The main variable will be how long it's been empty.


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#5 David Hensley

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 09:39 PM

Whatever you're going to put in it, put it in NOW! lol

 

Seriously, barrels need to be kept wet, so that the joints stay tight. If you don't keep it wet, and swollen, you might as well break it up and smoke something with the chips...

 

I'm pretty sure that barrels can only withstand one or two full "dryings" before they lose their seal, and ability to hold liquid.....


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#6 Moto

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 10:01 PM

If you need or desire a bottle of W&N or its cash equivalent contributed to the cause just say the word.  I am all for experimentation!  Do you know what it held before?  Maybe fill it with W&N and see how it does then toast it and fill it again.  Your in the DC area so maybe a craft distiller can toast it for you?


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#7 Hassouni

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 06:14 AM

Well it's a Clément barrel, so maybe that? Moto, if you'd like to contribute, you'd get your share back of the aged results


Edited by Hassouni, 15 April 2014 - 06:16 AM.


#8 Rafa

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 06:48 AM

Put W&N in now, and I expect to try it when I'm in DC in a few weeks. 


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#9 Hassouni

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 07:08 AM

Put W&N in now, and I expect to try it when I'm in DC in a few weeks. 

 

We'll see - 5L of W&N is a lot of discretionary budget out the window (it being tax day and all)



#10 Moto

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 08:00 AM

A few weeks ago I ran the numbers of filling a full size barrel with W&N at retail prices in pursuit of making my own W&N 17 and almost passed out.  If you want each of us to paypal funds for a bottle just let us know. I get to DC about twice a year to visit friends and Ace beverage so pick up should be no problem.



#11 Hassouni

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 08:28 AM

Haha, I was just thinking of what it would take for a 53 GALLON barrel....

 

53 gallons, 3.78541 liters per gallon....just shy of 201 liters...114 1.75L bottles....@$33 per handle....nearly $3800.  Not so bad!



#12 scubadoo97

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 09:34 AM

$3800 isn't so bad. You don't have to fill it completely.
I have friends that have done bourbon rebarreling where everyone involved dumps in their bottles and after a year or so or when it has reached a point of significant improvement it's dumped, bottled and shared.

#13 Moto

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 09:37 AM

Ah the 1.75.  I did the math with what is most easily attainable for me ... 750 ml bottles at a price of about $22 including tax and it was $5896.  $3800 is much easier to swallow.  Maybe a good long term project...



#14 Hassouni

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 09:44 AM

It's not really any different than what indie bottlers do is it - I mean I assume W&N OP is more or less straight from the still?



#15 tanstaafl2

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 09:46 AM

That would be a pre-charred barrel.  When winemakers want to re-use a barrel their coopers break it down, scrape off the char and anything else that might be sticking to it and re-char it.

 

I don't think W&N would be impressed by all this.  Just dump it in and taste every few weeks to see how it's going (the burden of scientific enquiry, alas, falls upon you).  You'll probably pick up some flavour from whatever was in there before, although not much, after the boiling water treatment.  Good luck.

 

Your eG username is henceforth Mr Cooper.

 

Rum manufacturers often do indeed typically scrape down a previously used bourbon barrel but I don't know that they always fully rechar it. That barrel looks more like a heavy toasting or fairly light char. Even a light char typically has a somewhat "scally" appearance like a lizard skin that in heavy chars is sometimes referred to as "alligator char". because it looks like an alligator skin.  

 

But if that is a 5L barrel then do you know for sure it was used for something else prior to having Clement rhum in it? Or even previously used at all?

 

5L seems like an odd size for standard production. A typical quarter cask is about 12-13 gallons and is about the smallest size most companies use except for perhaps for experimental stuff. I know Corsair sometimes uses small casks for their experiments and other micros might as well. Not sure about Clement.


Edited by tanstaafl2, 15 April 2014 - 09:47 AM.

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#16 gfweb

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 09:49 AM

I have googled W and N and gotten everything but alcohol.

 

WTF is WN?



#17 tanstaafl2

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 09:50 AM

I have googled W and N and gotten everything but alcohol.

 

WTF is WN?

 

Wray and Nephew rum from Jamaica.


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If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man. ~Mark Twain

Some people are like a Slinky. They are not really good for anything, but you still can't help but smile when you shove them down the stairs...
~tanstaafl2

#18 tanstaafl2

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 09:52 AM

Wray and Nephew rum from Jamaica.

 

 

And in this thread it is the W&N overproof white rum.


If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man. ~Mark Twain

Some people are like a Slinky. They are not really good for anything, but you still can't help but smile when you shove them down the stairs...
~tanstaafl2

#19 Hassouni

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 10:56 AM

Rum manufacturers often do indeed typically scrape down a previously used bourbon barrel but I don't know that they always fully rechar it. That barrel looks more like a heavy toasting or fairly light char. Even a light char typically has a somewhat "scally" appearance like a lizard skin that in heavy chars is sometimes referred to as "alligator char". because it looks like an alligator skin.  

 

But if that is a 5L barrel then do you know for sure it was used for something else prior to having Clement rhum in it? Or even previously used at all?

 

5L seems like an odd size for standard production. A typical quarter cask is about 12-13 gallons and is about the smallest size most companies use except for perhaps for experimental stuff. I know Corsair sometimes uses small casks for their experiments and other micros might as well. Not sure about Clement.

 

I have no idea if it was used for anything else, it might have been given to the bar as a promo thing for barrel-aging cocktails (just speculation). It's definitely not standard production-size, 5L barrels are typically made only for cocktails or at home for a fast oak treatment for new make spirits, from what I know.



#20 haresfur

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 07:44 PM

You could extract the alcohol from the wood with boiling water and make swish like the Newfoundlanders.


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#21 Hassouni

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 07:56 PM

eh?



#22 scubadoo97

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 08:42 PM

You could extract the alcohol from the wood with boiling water and make swish like the Newfoundlanders.


In Arkansas it's know as screech

#23 Hassouni

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 08:47 PM

Yeah, that I've heard of



#24 Tri2Cook

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 03:24 AM

In Arkansas it's know as screech


I thought it was known as screech in Newfoundland too. The LCBO carries Newfoundland Screech Rum. At $27/bottle I'd like to think it's not just a bottle of rum flavored water (I've never tried it) but it's still connecting the word "screech" and Newfoundland.

 


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#25 mkayahara

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 04:51 AM

In Newfoundland, Screech is an actual rum, imported from Jamaica, then blended and bottled by the Newfoundland liquor commission. It's not bad, but not the best either. Haresfur is correct that alcohol extracted from barrel wood is known in Newfoundland as swish.


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#26 Tri2Cook

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 01:27 PM

In Newfoundland, Screech is an actual rum, imported from Jamaica, then blended and bottled by the Newfoundland liquor commission. It's not bad, but not the best either. Haresfur is correct that alcohol extracted from barrel wood is known in Newfoundland as swish.


Interesting. I didn't know that. I've seen the Screech rum but passed on it because I was unfamiliar with it.

 


It's kinda like wrestling a gorilla... you don't stop when you're tired, you stop when the gorilla is tired.

#27 gfweb

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 02:00 PM

In Arkansas it's know as screech

How much alcohol can be contained in boiling water?

 

...Unless it a closed system and is redistilled



#28 scubadoo97

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 07:37 PM

How much alcohol can be contained in boiling water?

...Unless it a closed system and is redistilled


The few people I know that have made screech are just using water. I don't think it's boiling or hot for that matter

#29 David Hensley

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 08:52 PM

According to "Trailer Park Boys", swish doesn't involve boiling water, or self-esteem either, for that matter...lmao


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#30 Hassouni

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 09:48 PM

According to "Trailer Park Boys", swish doesn't involve boiling water, or self-esteem either, for that matter...lmao

 

Yes, but what in TPB did?  :laugh: How did they get the shitswish out of the shitbarrel?