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Gelatin vs. other gelling agents


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#1 Matthew Kirshner

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 05:35 AM

Hi everyone,

 

  So hear is my dilemma, I was talking to my boss at work yesterday and I mention I wanted to get some gelatin in so I could make some fruit mousses.  He informed me that I was not allowed to use any gelatin made from an animal base(Long story, don't ask Y?). after doing a little research, the closet thing to a vegetable base gelatin is Agar-Agar. 

 

  Has anyone use this substitution before and if so is it equal amounts.  Or if anyone has any other suggestions for replacing the animal base gelatin.

 

Thanks!!



#2 curls

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 06:41 AM

Pectin or cornstarch may work. Maybe add some cocoa butter or white chocolate to the mousse to firm up the texture (saw a mention of that on cheftalk.com).



#3 gfweb

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 06:41 AM

How about going old school with egg whites?

 

Xanthan gum might work, but I've never used it to get things mousse-thick.



#4 annabelle

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 06:52 AM

You cannot substitute agar (sold as agar-agar) in equal amounts with gelatin.  Agar has a higher melting point than gelatin and is stable at room temperature. 

 

I'd research some vegetarian dessert books for helpful tips.  It is often used in Indian desserts, so that may be a starting place.



#5 teonzo

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 07:07 AM

If you want to make fruit mousses then agar-agar gives some troubles due to temperatures: it starts gelling at 40°C, this is a bit too high when you need to fold in the whipped cream.

The best substitute is cocoa butter, it works almost at the same temperatures as gelatin. About quantities, you need to multiply the gelatin quantity per 5 or 6. Example: if your recipe calls for 10 g of gelatin, then you can subsitute it with 50-60 g of cocoa butter.

 

 

 

Teo


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#6 Matthew Kirshner

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 09:42 AM

Thanks everyone for the suggestions, I will try the cocoa butter idea.  Has anyone use arrowroot?



#7 Mjx

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 10:03 AM

Arrowroot is pretty gloopy and starchy; konnyaku (aka konjak, konjaku) will probably give you results closest to those you'd get with gelatin. It's also easily found, reasonably priced, and vegan.


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#8 JeanneCake

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 11:49 AM

If you are prohibited from using gelatin derived from beef bones, are you allowed to use a fish based gelatin?  Years ago I was researching gelatin for marshmallows for Passover and I found a place in Florida that sold fish based gelatin (in powder form) that was approved for use during Passover. 



#9 Matthew Kirshner

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 01:08 PM

If you are prohibited from using gelatin derived from beef bones, are you allowed to use a fish based gelatin?  Years ago I was researching gelatin for marshmallows for Passover and I found a place in Florida that sold fish based gelatin (in powder form) that was approved for use during Passover. 

I think my boss wants me to stay away from all animal base, including fish.  I can ask him on Wednesday when I see him.  do you remember the name of the product by any chance?



#10 paulraphael

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 02:06 PM

Arrowroot may be worth trying if the mousses will be non-dairy. If there's milk or cream, it gets slimy.

 

Agar, gellan, or some combination of gums might be ideal.


Edited by paulraphael, 17 March 2014 - 02:07 PM.


#11 JeanneCake

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 03:04 PM

I think my boss wants me to stay away from all animal base, including fish.  I can ask him on Wednesday when I see him.  do you remember the name of the product by any chance?

I bought it from Food Industry Technology, 545 W. 37th St, Miami Beach, FL 33140  I don't have a website for them, and a google search turned up empty for them.  But I found this other place:

http://www.jiliding....sh-gelatin.html that looks helpful....



#12 ChrisZ

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 04:18 AM

If you have the time, check out the khymos website.  It's main attraction is a freely downloadable collection of recipes that use all sorts of different gelling agents.  There's a little bit of information on each one, such as suggested ratios etc etc.  Considering it's free, there's no reason not to have a look at it.  At the very least, you can consider it a definitive list of every available option you have.

 

While agar is fairly easy to get, you'll probably get better results with either carageenans or gellan.  I find agar gels are too firm for a pleasant dessert, although that's personal.  Many of the dairy desserts you buy in supermarkets use carageenans (which come from seaweed), and it's easy to mail-order.

 

There are two types of gellan that give different results and you can mix them to get the exact texture you're after.  However gellan is more expensive and I can understand that you might not have the time to experiment.

 

I'll also add that the most common mousse I make is simply chocolate, and it doesn't have any gelatine in it at all.  It sets with just egg yolks (I use a recipe that cooks the egg yolks so there's no risk of salmonella).


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#13 Matthew Kirshner

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 02:16 PM

Ok, so I know it has been awhile but my boss finally got something in: Vegetable Gelatin.  After doing a quick research on it, I found two sources saying two different application process.  One says to dissolve normally 5x water amount, while the other mention to dissolve 3x water amount.  Any thoughts?? 



#14 lesliec

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 02:51 PM

I really don't think it would matter.  The idea is simply to hydrate it; you're not actually dissolving it.

 

Split the difference - give it 4x.


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#15 teonzo

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 12:32 PM

Ok, so I know it has been awhile but my boss finally got something in: Vegetable Gelatin.  After doing a quick research on it, I found two sources saying two different application process.  One says to dissolve normally 5x water amount, while the other mention to dissolve 3x water amount.  Any thoughts?? 

 

 

Be careful if it's something like Gelatina Vegetal by Sosa: it works at different temperatures than standard gelatin (much higher, causing troubles if you want to make mousses), plus it is not suitable for freezing.

 

 

 

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#16 Matthew Kirshner

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 03:59 PM

Be careful if it's something like Gelatina Vegetal by Sosa: it works at different temperatures than standard gelatin (much higher, causing troubles if you want to make mousses), plus it is not suitable for freezing.

 

 

 

Teo

Found out the hard way,  I made a very small batch of strawberry mousse, it came out stiffer then I wanted it to, but a froze in the molds and it did not have any different effect then if I would use regular gelatin.  going to try again next week,  Easter Weekend, too much going on. 



#17 pete INC

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Posted 19 April 2014 - 04:52 PM

pregel makes a product called "textura" that is a mousse base. the awesome thing about it is that it can be used as a gelatin substitute. 5 grams of textura powder is equal to 1 silver gelatin leaf. another nice thing about it is that it doesn't need to be hydrated. 



#18 Matthew Kirshner

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 11:49 AM

its been a little over a month since I have been using this vegetable gelatin my boss brought in, and the results have been not as great.  Although it has been working very well as a gelee topping for the mousse, the mousse itself has not passed my approval.  I did decide for right now to combo fruit/chocolate mousses to pass the time.  sometimes you just have to know when to move along.