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Have you noticed lack of knife skills among media chefs?


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#61 dcarch

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Posted 20 January 2014 - 06:29 PM

Speaking of knife skills. The story told to me for this classic dish.

 

The dish was prepared for the Emperor. If the Emperor was not pleased with the outcome, "Off with the head". Which was a very good incentive for acquiring good knife skills.

 

 

This dish is quite popular today. Try making it without good knife skills.

 

dcarch


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#62 rotuts

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 05:12 AM

loved that vid dc !

 

talk about Haute !

 

but I also like the tree stump cutting board just about as much.

 

wonder where in China one gets what ever that soup-pish thing is and what it goes for as done above

 

personally It needs a scallop or two similarly knifed.


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#63 Renn

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 08:14 PM

Back to David's original post...I'd say that it's mostly a disconnect between what you want to see in these TV segments, and what the chefs in question are trying to show.  You want to see a display of technical skill, but if you sit back and look at these segments for what they are...generally that is not the theme nor intent of them.

 

As a further example:

skip to 5:35

 

If we were to judge Grant by just this one video...you could say that he's a total hack.  And beyond chopping at celery like a fruit ninja, you could make other observations...why isn't his mise en place in perfect order?  Where's his sense of urgency? etc. etc.  But I assure you, Grant has ample technical skill.  I'd be willing to bet that a pint of fine brunoise from him would pass muster.  The key is the context and the intent.  This video is clearly about applying a (then unfamiliar) restaurant cooking technique to the home.  'It's not magic, it just makes sense' that sort of thing.

 

Similarly, while I can't speak to every chef that ends up in the media, I assure you that Rene Redzepi has knife skills...but for the messages he so often focuses on, a technical focus actually hinders communication.  People already perceive him as being "above and beyond,"  whereas he spends most of his time trying to say "what I'm doing isn't beyond reach of anyone."

 

You can always tell in an instant who the strong cooks are when you work with them.  And just like the rest of TV...I wouldn't make too many judgements of a person based on what hits the screen.



#64 gfweb

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 08:45 PM

On the other hand, J. Pepin never looks like an oaf when wielding a knife. Never.
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#65 annabelle

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 09:02 PM

Neither did his daughter when they shot the "Cooking With Claudia" show.

 

It was so cute how they'd speak French to each other and then speak up for the camera in English.


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#66 rotuts

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 06:01 AM

J.P. is indeed the master.

 

however, his show is filmed in a studio at KQED SF. or there about.  he uses tools supplied by sponsors.

 

so far so good, why not?  you are watching him after all.

 

he was using high end Shun knives and used a fine one to cut the "" fill in the blank "" which was on a plate, not a cutting board

 

a hard, ceramic plate.

 

doubt he took that knife home, nor does he do that at his house.

 

still ...

 

i personally was surprised that Claudine can't really cook. she does understand a lot about Grapes though.

 

they didn't really make up the stuff where JP was showing her stuff she should have been able to do in her sleep.  after all, look at Papa.


Edited by rotuts, 22 January 2014 - 06:02 AM.

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#67 weinoo

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 07:05 AM

to prove this:  the Lib that gave it to  

 

Porthos

 

rebound it.

 

Yes they did...I have the original, bought back in 1978 I believe...it's price was $5.95...

 

photo.JPG

 

A couple of friends and I had an interesting discussion about knife skills one night a few weeks ago.  Two of us are culinary school graduates and one of my least favorite things to do was to tournée vegetables.  Fortunately, I never had to do that in a pro setting, only in school.  But it was a good skill to learn.  

 

I'd bet a big dinner that RR can't tournée a thing.


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#68 rotuts

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 07:10 AM

""   I'd bet a big dinner that RR can't tournée a thing.  "'

 

no doubt.  she's probably studying her portfolio

 

we all would if we were her.  and she earned it, BTW

 

w hard work.

 

BTW ( II ) i have that same book, but got it used after my original got permanently removed.

 

:huh:


Edited by rotuts, 22 January 2014 - 07:11 AM.

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#69 annabelle

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 07:29 AM

I wasn't surprised that Claudine couldn't really cook.  If Jacques was your dad, I can't imagine you'd cook much either.  He's probably territorial about the kitchen and doesn't like people using his knives, his pots, his sauté pans, the wrong oils, &c.

 

rotuts, they're still shooting that show?  Claudine was in college when I watched it a dozen years ago.  Maybe she wants to cook for her own family now.



#70 dcarch

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 07:36 AM

On the other hand, J. Pepin never looks like an oaf when wielding a knife. Never.

 

Recently, J. Pepin did looked like an oaf to me.

 

I was on a train. He got in after me. Then he rushed out the next stop.

 

"Everything OK? Mr. Pepin?"

 

"Stupid me! Wrong train!"

 

I strongly suggest everyone to Google "J. Pepin paintings". You will agree he is a museum class artist. It really does not matter what he does in the kitchen, his work, everything, is art.

 

dcarch


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#71 Edward J

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 07:55 AM

""   I'd bet a big dinner that RR can't tournée a thing.  "'

 

no doubt.  she's probably studying her portfolio

 

we all would if we were her.  and she earned it, BTW

 

w hard work.

 

BTW ( II ) i have that same book, but got it used after my original got permanently removed.

 

:huh:

 

Can't say I'm a fan of RR or have even watch whole episodes of her show, but yes, she does work hard for the money, and I respect her for that.

 

That being said, she does have the public's eye and ear.  Some may view this as a luxury, some as a responsibility.

 

As I have stated in my above posts, learning and using basic knife skills allows you to purchase higher quality cuts of meat at lower costs--if you can remove bones; to purchase whole vegetables or fruits cheaper than precut and packaged--if you can cut them into reasonably smaller pieces.  So I  feel that Ms. Ray does have a responsibility to at least demonstrate this skill to her audience.  I don't think tourne'd root vegetables is a must, but how to remove the bones from a double breast of chicken (and what the cost difference is at the supermarket) would be a good thing.



#72 rotuts

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 08:12 AM

Claudine has a young daughter, and they both appear on the latest JP fast food my way. I think JP tried to teach her but she wasnt very interested.

 

JP is indeed an artist.  I think that he is simply getting old.

 

:sad:


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#73 rotuts

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 08:14 AM

""  Ms. Ray does have a responsibility to at least demonstrate this skill to her audience  ""

 

that's not what interests her audience.  her audience wants to pretend they too can be RR.

 

burp.  pass the dip.



#74 annabelle

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 09:00 AM

RR's schtick is speed.  Economy, not so much.

 

I agree with EdwardJ on this one.  If she had decent knife skills--she need not be sushi grade, just competent--she could enhance her brand.  However, that isn't what she's about.  Take a look at the products she uses:  prepared veg and fruit, presliced cheeses and deli meat, chicken parts, boxed stock, packaged herbs, et alia.  I don't watch her show although I have seen it of course, one can't miss it as she is on multiple times a day on FN so, there she is if you have it on for noise.  The thing I find most off-putting about her is her menu planning.  It is atrocious.  I can't recall what she was preparing one episode but there was a total disconnect between the various dishes she made that day.  They had absolutely nothing in common;  not country or style or flavor profile.

 

Like most of us here, I learned to use my knives to save money, not to show off.  Knowing how difficult it was to teach myself, I am very appreciative of the beautiful knife work some of our members turn out.


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#75 David Hensley

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 03:45 PM

On the other hand, J. Pepin never looks like an oaf when wielding a knife. Never

I wholeheartedly approve of, and second this statement!

 

I want to be just like Jacques when I grow up....


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I'm a lifelong professional chef. If that doesn't explain some of my mental and emotional quirks, maybe you should see a doctor, and have some of yours examined...


#76 rotuts

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 03:59 PM

good for you.  you could not find a better example

 

lets assume you have read the book:

 

http://www.amazon.co...y jacques pepin

 

ive read it many times.

 

a lot more here than cooking.

 

I know people that know him.  they say he is a pleasure to know.

 

rats   Ive never met him

 

J.Child  2 x    the same


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#77 David Hensley

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 04:08 PM

I have read it, quite a few times, and am even now searching for a properly used copy to add to my collection!

The thing I love most about Jacques is his no-nonsense attitude about all things culinary. "This is what I was taught, and its good to know. This is what I learned later, and so I've incorporated it into my original method. This is the method I prefer to use today, because it covers all of my needs, while remaining true to the fundamentals of my craft." This kind of pragmatic thinking is sorely missing today, I believe. Nowadays, we all just grab for a gadget, or machine to do simple things for us.

 

Maybe I'll call my autobiography " I'm Waaayyyy better than you, but never better than Jacques Pepin!" LMAO :raz:


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#78 gfweb

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 07:20 PM

I have read it, quite a few times, and am even now searching for a properly used copy to add to my collection!
The thing I love most about Jacques is his no-nonsense attitude about all things culinary. "This is what I was taught, and its good to know. This is what I learned later, and so I've incorporated it into my original method. This is the method I prefer to use today, because it covers all of my needs, while remaining true to the fundamentals of my craft." This kind of pragmatic thinking is sorely missing today, I believe. Nowadays, we all just grab for a gadget, or machine to do simple things for us.
 
Maybe I'll call my autobiography " I'm Waaayyyy better than you, but never better than Jacques Pepin!" LMAO :raz:


And the thing of it is that I'm certain there were more than a few guys with his chops who are gone forever and unlikely to be reproduced.

And not just in cooking. In many fields, deep expertise is a rare thing.

Rigorous, dare I say painful, training is almost illegal and certainly frowned-upon...but it gives results worth the effort.

Great stuff doesn't come easy.
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#79 Renn

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 07:48 PM

And what has always been Chef Pepin's messaging?  Fundamental technique...so of course, that's what he displays when on TV.

 

The only other chef I've seen recently with a focus on fundamental technique (vs. say modernist technique) on TV would be Raymond Blanc.

 

But again, we're talking about the fantasy world of TV...how things are in restaurant kitchens, that's a completely different discussion.


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#80 gfweb

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 07:59 PM

Whether carpentry, plumbing, dentistry or cardiac surgery...there's a right way and a wrong way.

I can attest that the meals I had at the old Le Bec Fin in Phila, when Perrier was in full force doing old school French classic technique on modern dishes, were transformative without being stogy. Who knew a sauce could be that good... a galette so sublime? Kind of ruined restaurant meals coming after. Sucks that that is probably gone forever in the US.

The little things do matter. Maybe not in home cooking, but they matter.
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#81 David Hensley

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 09:09 PM

Whether carpentry, plumbing, dentistry or cardiac surgery...there's a right way and a wrong way.

I can attest that the meals I had at the old Le Bec Fin in Phila, when Perrier was in full force doing old school French classic technique on modern dishes, were transformative without being stogy. Who knew a sauce could be that good... a galette so sublime? Kind of ruined restaurant meals coming after. Sucks that that is probably gone forever in the US.

The little things do matter. Maybe not in home cooking, but they matter.

 

 

The little things most certainly DO matter, especially in food! Its the "little things" that make a good meal better, and a great meal excellent. Its the difference in training, respect, and life! Learning the generalities may make you wise, but learning the fineries will make you great!

 

If Jacques says it, its probably true...


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#82 rotuts

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Posted 23 January 2014 - 07:35 AM

Vive Jacque !

 

Im an Addicted a Student of cooking vids.  the kind where you really learn something. J.Child, J.Pepin, etc

 

seeing makes the difference.   J.Pepins last several series   "Fast Food My Way"  and "More" demonstrated more than Technique

 

they showed you meals that, having seen them done properly, you could easily make them yourself.

 

That's a skill that's a cut above the rest.


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