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Sous Vide: Recipes, Techniques & Equipment (Part 9)

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#31 ChrisTaylor

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 03:13 PM

True, but dark meat is unpleasant at 60C. It still feels a bit raw to the bite. Cook the breasts at 60C, chill and store. Cook the legs at maybe 65C.

Also, with that thickness I'd worry the breast meat--having to sit in the bath so long--would start to take on an unsettling mushiness. Deconstruct the bird. Bar messing around with meat glue, which I know nothing about, sous vide (and even slow and low roasting) makes perfect presentation (ie a whole animal) and perfect doneness a binary choice.

Edited by ChrisTaylor, 09 August 2013 - 03:16 PM.

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#32 jmasur

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 03:38 PM

Michael Voltaggio's recipe calls for 150F/65C for all parts, although he does put the thighs in for a half hour longer than the breasts and drumsticks.

 

I think you'd need some rebar to go with the meat glue.

 

Anyway, this is probably academic, as I'm quite happy smoking my brined turkey in my Weber Performer with Smokenator 1000 (and probably will be even happier once I get my PartyQ installed).



#33 lesliec

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 08:29 PM

If Heston can SV a whole pig, a mere turkey sounds like child's play!

 

But having said that, I agree that legs/breasts perform better if treated differently.  My second-best-ever turkey used brined breast and confit legs, but didn't specify sous vide cooking (I don't remember now - it was a couple of Christmases ago - but I suspect I may have used SV anyway, but don't ask me for time/temp).  My best-ever was last Christmas, when I used meat glue to creat a turducken using only breasts.  Fantastic.


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#34 ChrisTaylor

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 08:43 PM

Yeah and he abandoned that whole sous vide pig.


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#35 jmasur

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 11:04 AM

On another topic....

 

Thoughts about (a) buying a ribeye roast, cooking the whole thing SV, then dividing into steaks and finishing; (b) buying a ribeye roast, dividing into steaks, cooking the steaks SV, then finishing; or © buying individual ribeye steakscooking the steaks SV, then finishing?

 

My thought is that (a) might not have adequate seasoning penetration, but would otherwise be advantageous.



#36 KennethT

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 11:34 AM

Depending on how big the roast is, it may be quite dangerous to SV a whole roast as the center may take a very long time to come to temp.

Personally, if I were planning on eventually turning the roast into steaks anyway, I would divide raw and cook them SV as steaks.. I would not season until pre-sear... lately, I've been gettnig much better results cooking meat unseasoned - I like the texture better.

#37 furzzy

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 09:08 PM

Not sure this belongs here, but here's my Sous Vide setup:

I put a pot a little off-center on this:

http://www.cooktek.c...ter-top-cooktop

which creates the necessary circulation. Note this unit can have the temp set on a 1 - 10 scale or by F degrees .

Voila!

#38 FeChef

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 10:42 AM

Weirdest thing happen after overnight after being in the SV all day. I woke up to find one of the bags filled with water. At first i thought it was air, and got imediately thought of bacteria gasses..lol Its weird because I really dont understand how it filled up like a ballon as if it was pumped in there. The ziplock seems to be still sealed aswell. Lucky I double bagged it. Stangely the water inside is still crystal clear so the second bag must be sealed good.

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#39 rotuts

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 11:09 AM

you must have had a 'Zip-Lok' bag failure at one of the seams.

 

what sort of system do you use?  is the gas burner on the L on?  the blue-ish flaime?  what's the perforated pan up to?   these are just out of interest and nothing to do with the plastic

 

 

I imagine Zip-Lok failure do to a bad bag not uncommon.



#40 FeChef

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 11:52 AM

you must have had a 'Zip-Lok' bag failure at one of the seams.

 

what sort of system do you use?  is the gas burner on the L on?  the blue-ish flaime?  what's the perforated pan up to?   these are just out of interest and nothing to do with the plastic

 

 

I imagine Zip-Lok failure do to a bad bag not uncommon.

LoL no the burner isnt on.Must be some weird glare from the camera flash. The perforated SS pan is to protect any bagged food items from touching the heating element underneath it. The heating element rest about 1 inch above the bottom of the plastic container. Its a rather big setup, which is why it goes across the entire cooktop. I can SV full racks and about 4 8lb pork butts at a time. Thats a 8lb pork butt you see in the picture. The first bag was a gallon size (butt barely fit) the second bag filled with water is a two gallon. (ziplock brand is crap)



#41 Beusho

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 12:38 PM

Question about using ping pong balls for a cover: anybody use those expensive polyscience ones? Are they just polypropylene, is there an advantage to this rather than using regular ping pong balls? Are they just 100% polypropylene? Thanks for any help!


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#42 rotuts

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 12:44 PM

why not just use a cling-wrap for the moisture issues and then on top of that some styrofoam solid insulation cut to fit on top of that?



#43 Beusho

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 08:18 AM

Why ping pong balls instead of cling wrap: for ease of use in terms of adding/replacing things during cooking (this would apply for example if cooking different vegetables or vegetables of varying thickness), as well as just being able to pull things out quickly if you're in a fast paced kitchen

“...no one is born a great cook, one learns by doing.”


#44 FeChef

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 08:37 AM

I must have missed something. Why, and who uses ping pong balls as a cover? :blink: Does this have something to do with looking cool, and all gastronomical? :rolleyes:  There is absolutely no way this is going to prevent evaporation.



#45 rotuts

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 08:52 AM

this is what is on polyscience site.

 

 

 

Id just cut some foam insulation to closely fit if you dont like the film.  easy to lift and place back on.



#46 Beusho

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 10:59 AM

It cuts the surface area over which evaporation can occur, a lid does the same thing, with a negligble loss between the water surface and the lid. The area between a cut out and lid is free for evaporation to occur through, ping pong balls might actually be a better seal. I worked in medicine and all our labs used ping pong balls so people could retrieve things from tanks (we actually used polyscience circulators). In reality I think it's only practical: no lid to take off, take up counter space and drip everywhere; I can't imagine the evaporation has that much effect, although I only ordered my first profesionally made sous vide cooker last week.
Polypropylene is temperature rated for up to 180F I think, no ping pong ball is polypropylene unless you order them that way. That being said the polyscience price is way too high, you can probably check on amazon or a plastics manufacturer to get a 100 for $10-15. I actually think the best kind would be a one with a ring or sacer like shape.

“...no one is born a great cook, one learns by doing.”


#47 rotuts

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 11:15 AM

very interesting points.

 

Balls are Round.  they do to not have that much contact except at 4 points per ball.

 

two things you might want to consider for "personal use" ::

 

energy at Institutions of all kinds  ( Labs  Restaurants etc ) are ignored  They take a long time to study those costs now.

 

at home:  you would so a lot better with a """ Beer Cooler """  of many sizes,  I have 4

 

just because its a lot less stress on your Kitchen Amps.

 

I could say:  "Waste Not, Want Not"  but I will not!

 

happy cooking!



#48 DiggingDogFarm

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 03:56 PM

It cuts the surface area over which evaporation can occur, a lid does the same thing, with a negligble loss between the water surface and the lid. The area between a cut out and lid is free for evaporation to occur through, ping pong balls might actually be a better seal. I worked in medicine and all our labs used ping pong balls so people could retrieve things from tanks (we actually used polyscience circulators). In reality I think it's only practical: no lid to take off, take up counter space and drip everywhere; I can't imagine the evaporation has that much effect, although I only ordered my first profesionally made sous vide cooker last week.
Polypropylene is temperature rated for up to 180F I think, no ping pong ball is polypropylene unless you order them that way. That being said the polyscience price is way too high, you can probably check on amazon or a plastics manufacturer to get a 100 for $10-15. I actually think the best kind would be a one with a ring or sacer like shape.

 

 

As I understand it, the problem with ping pong balls is the fact that they float high and don't provide as good of coverage as balls that sink to mid-point, making them less effective.

If you can find polypropylene balls of the same specs as the Polyscience balls for less money (including shipping) and in the same quantity (I don't need 1000 of them) please share because I haven't been able to find them for less.


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#49 FeChef

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 04:22 PM

Your better off using vegetable oil to float on the surface to prevent evaporation. Those ping pong balls are just pointless. There is spaces inbetween every ball that let all the water evaporate. What a gimmick. :rolleyes:



#50 Beusho

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 07:11 PM

http://www.usplastic...px?itemid=23942

 

This is a good source for them

The density of solid polypropylene is around .85 g/cm^3 which is below water so they will submerge much better than ping pong balls


Edited by Beusho, 20 August 2013 - 07:13 PM.

“...no one is born a great cook, one learns by doing.”


#51 DiggingDogFarm

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 07:13 PM

They are solid. The PolyScience balls are hollow.


Edited by DiggingDogFarm, 20 August 2013 - 07:15 PM.

~Martin
 
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#52 Marius

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 12:51 AM

Food safety question: Does adding a slice of raw lemon to a bag of chicken breast reduce the amount of time it will last in the fridge after SVing? (doing cook->chill)


Edited by Marius, 21 August 2013 - 12:51 AM.


#53 jmasur

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 01:52 PM

Marius, I'm not a food safety guy, or I'd weigh in more authoritatively, but I can't imagine how it would.

 

 

All:  Has anyone tried the Oliso sealers?  They say they're good for sous vide, and even have a video up showing how to use them with liquids in the bag.  

 

The primary attraction for me would be the reusable bags -- my wife is annoyed at the plastic waste from my sous vide cooks.  I'm not sure how you'd actually wash them out, though.  And assuming that I can figure that out, I'm wondering whether the same technique could be used with FoodSaver bags, because if that works, I could just make longer bags than needed, slice off the ends when done cooking, wash, and reuse.



#54 Beusho

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 02:14 PM

Food saver and ziploc both have these: they're basically sous vide bags with a zip top (food savers seems sturdier to me). I prefer these to the vacuum heat sealer Food Saver (FS) for SV, for freezer or long term storage I use the bigger vacuum heat sealed FS. The bags have a port on them to apply a vacuum to, Ziploc has a manual pump and FS has a smaller 20$ battery pump, they're both at Target last time I checked. That Oliso is an overpriced version of these two. I would recommend getting the larger gallon freezer bags for liquids.

“...no one is born a great cook, one learns by doing.”


#55 jmasur

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 02:39 PM

Except that the FoodSaver and Ziploc things are actually different from the Oliso.  I own the Ziploc; it was my first foray into vacuum sealing.  The Ziploc has a dedicated port with a flap that you put the vacuum device on.  The Oliso melts a hole in the bag, vacuums, and then heat seals to close the hole; subsequent uses create additional holes.

 

The Ziploc's vacuum flap seals are not terribly reliable, in my experience, and tend to fail when liquids engage the flap.  I do use them occasionally for low-pressure, low-moisture vacuuming.  The fact that the Oliso heat seals the holes suggests to me that they will be more reliable.

 

So again, the question I have is whether it's really possible to wash the Oliso bags and then reuse them, and if so, how?  (And if it is, why can't I do the same thing with FoodSaver heat-seal bags?)


Edited by jmasur, 24 August 2013 - 02:41 PM.


#56 rotuts

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 06:59 AM

Id avoid washing SV bags.  you can save a lot of plastc elsewhere in your lives.  the chance of contamination or illness must go up exponentially if you do this.

 

that being said, I use custom-cut long bags for saving things that are dry :  green coffee beans, butter on sale, etc.  I set the total length to include a 1 " cut off each time I open the bag to take out some of the contents so that I can re-seal that same bag.;

 

I get multiple "samplings" this way for one bag.   6 sticks of butter fit nicely into the 6 x 10 bag, which I then freeze.  this prevents 'frost' and freezer flavors from degrading the butter over time, and each time I remove one stick there is plenty of space left in that bag to re-seal and re-freeze.

 

I freeze 5 lbs of green beans in a much longer and wider bag, and take out a few weeks worth of beans at a time, then reseal.

 

I dont freeze these green beans, just keep the bags in the coolest part of my basement.



#57 ThayerG

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 06:42 PM

Sous-vide Hainan Chicken?

Does anyone have any experience with this dish? There are a few blogs which mention it and today I tried a couple of pieces of dark chicken meat with ginger and soy sauce and a couple of dried red chilis. Conventional Hainan chicken is steamed and then chilled to gelatinize the liquids so I svied the chicken for two hours at 63C and then gave it a 30 minute ice bath. The results weren't bad but need some help. Brining?

#58 Robenco15

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 12:36 PM

Hello,

 

So now that the Anova Sous Vide Circulator is 200 dollars I am seriously beginning to think about starting to cook sous vide at home. I enjoy cooking complex meals and have wanted to get involved with sous vide for awhile.

 

Since you all have so many answers, I wanted to make sure of a few things before I made any purchases.

 

I do not plan on buying any type of vacuum sealing device or anytime in the near future. I have no space and while I have the money, I don't want to make additional purchases if I don't need to. Plus, no space. I was planning on using Ziploc bags zipper bags, but now I am reading that because they are made for the freezer or for carrying food at room temperature, they are not safe/good to use in sous vide instances where you are actually cooking food within them at a high temperature.

 

Is that correct? Does Ziploc even make heat safe bags? Cheap alternatives?

 

I am not trying to purchase anyting additional besides the circulator.

 

I have a smaller beer cooler that probably holds around 5 gallons and I would attach it to that. I would then put plastic wrap over the top as best as I can to provide insulation, along with a blanket I guess.

 

Does this all sound plausible? I do not want to purchase anything additional besides the actual sous vide. I was really hoping to use the ziploc bags I already own for various other reasons.

 

I appreciate your help as I have to convince my girlfriend that this is worth having, not overtly expensive, and worth doing! Thank you!



#59 gfweb

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 01:18 PM

I routinely use ziploc bags (the ones without the zipper, which tends to leak) when I intend to eat the dish within a day of SVing. If I'm going to freeze it then I vacuum seal it to prevent freezer burn.

 

I gather that there is concern that heating the polyethylene makes bad things happen. I haven't seen anything authoritative saying that this indeed a real problem and my family seems to be fine.  (for perspective, consider that browned crusty meat and smoked meat are chock full of proven carcinogens).

 

Beer coolers are great, but with a powerful immersion heater you might do great using a small pot with a towel for insulation.

 

Worth doing? But of course!



#60 Lisa Shock

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 01:19 PM

I am a FoodSaver owner and love it. I vacuum seal all sorts of things in canning jars to help prevent pantry moths and keep things fresh: dry cat food, rice, sugar, flours, dry beans, raw nuts, dried fruit, bulk candy, etc. I also use the bags to portion out and preserve cheese, and items headed for the freezer. I also sous vide in canning jars as well as bags. I believe that I have gotten a great deal of value from my $150 purchase a decade ago.

 

That said, it appears that Ziploc has made a product just for you - a hand pump that costs less than $5, and, specially designed bags in lots of sizes: gallonquart, etc.







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