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Cooking with "Chocolates and Confections" by Peter Greweling (Part 2)


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#1 Spring

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Posted 24 July 2008 - 03:41 AM

[Moderator note: The original topic became too large for our servers to handle efficiently, so we've divided it up; the preceding part of this discussion is here: Cooking with "Chocolates and Confections" by Peter Greweling (Part 1)]

 

 

 

 

I got my book yesterday
OMG this is not a book, this is The Book.
What a fantastic birthday present to myself, I am (almost) speechless.
Ive tried 2 recipes and cant wait to try more. I highly recommend it. If anyone is interested in chocolate sand confections they must get it.
I will post photos later. Heartfelt thanks to all of you who recommend it wub.gif


Edited by Mjx, 19 November 2013 - 06:28 AM.
Moderator note added.

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#2 digigirl

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Posted 22 August 2008 - 05:12 PM

Okay, I've got The Book (and I agree, it is The Book) and I've read through it (and a couple of others). And I've read through much of this thread, as long as it is, but if the answer to my question is here, I've missed it.

Pretty much all the ganache recipes call for glucose syrup. He mentions invert sugar in the ingredients description as an alternate sweetener, but then doesn't say when or how to use it. I have neither glucose syrup nor invert sugar in my pantry.

I know honey is similar to invert sugar, but what about glucose syrup? Are they interchangeable? I know invert sugar is sweeter, but otherwise, can one be substituted for the other? And so, by the same token, could honey be used instead of either?

The only source I have for either is online and while that's not a huge problem, it means I can't make something right now, like I'd like to. If I can use honey, well then....

Any input from all you experienced chocolatiers for a clueless newbie?

Valerie
Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body...but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, wine in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"

#3 Kerry Beal

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Posted 22 August 2008 - 05:24 PM

Okay, I've got The Book (and I agree, it is The Book) and I've read through it (and a couple of others).  And I've read through much of this thread, as long as it is, but if the answer to my question is here, I've missed it.

Pretty much all the ganache recipes call for glucose syrup.  He mentions invert sugar in the ingredients description as an alternate sweetener, but then doesn't say when or how to use it.  I have neither glucose syrup nor invert sugar in my pantry. 

I know honey is similar to invert sugar, but what about glucose syrup?  Are they interchangeable?  I know invert sugar is sweeter, but otherwise, can one be substituted for the other?  And so, by the same token, could honey be used instead of either?

The only source I have for either is online and while that's not a huge problem, it means I can't make something right now, like I'd like to.  If I can use honey, well then....

Any input from all you experienced chocolatiers for a clueless newbie? 

Valerie

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Valerie,

White corn syrup is just glucose with a bit of additional water and some vanilla flavouring - so you can use white Karo syrup (or the no name version) where it calls for glucose.

Invert sugar can be replaced by honey where the flavour won't be compromised, or failing that make your own. Thanks to Will Goldfarb for the recipe from the spanish patisserie book Los Helados - Heat 430 grams water to 50º C, add 1 kg sugar, heat to 80º C, add 4 grams citric acid, cool to 65 ºC and add 5 grams of baking soda. Store at room temperature. (note: original recipe is 9 kg water, 21 kg sugar, 90 g citric acid and 110 g bicarbonate).

#4 digigirl

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Posted 22 August 2008 - 05:33 PM

Kerry, thank you for the speedy reply! I do have karo syrup in my pantry, so that puts me back in business.

So the question would be, then, when would one use glucose instead of invert sugar and vice versa? My understanding is that they both serve basically the same purpose - prolonging shelf life, sweetening, etc. So why would I choose one over the other and in what circumstances? Should I keep both on hand for different situations?
Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body...but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, wine in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"

#5 Kerry Beal

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Posted 22 August 2008 - 05:48 PM

Kerry, thank you for the speedy reply!  I do have karo syrup in my pantry, so that puts me back in business.

So the question would be, then, when would one use glucose instead of invert sugar and vice versa?  My understanding is that they both serve basically the same purpose - prolonging shelf life, sweetening, etc.  So why would I choose one over the other and in what circumstances?  Should I keep both on hand for different situations?

View Post

Glucose is less sweet than sugar (ie sucrose), invert sugar is more sweet than sugar. I put a bit of glucose in most truffles I make. I don't use a lot of invert sugar - have it for recipes that call for it specifically.

I tend to use a whole lot of glucose in candy making ie for caramels etc.

#6 digigirl

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Posted 22 August 2008 - 06:01 PM

Glucose is less sweet than sugar (ie sucrose), invert sugar is more sweet than sugar.  I put a bit of glucose in most truffles I make.  I don't use a lot of invert sugar - have it for recipes that call for it specifically. 

I tend to use a whole lot of glucose in candy making ie for caramels etc.

View Post


Do you use the glucose in place of regular sugar in recipes? Or are you making judgment calls based on your experience to determine how much to use? I've made caramels before, but always with non-professional recipes that just called for sugar and other regular kitchen ingredients, so I'm not sure how I would make that substitution.

Do you find that it makes better caramels than regular sugar?
Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body...but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, wine in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"

#7 Kerry Beal

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Posted 22 August 2008 - 06:10 PM

Glucose is less sweet than sugar (ie sucrose), invert sugar is more sweet than sugar.   I put a bit of glucose in most truffles I make.  I don't use a lot of invert sugar - have it for recipes that call for it specifically. 

I tend to use a whole lot of glucose in candy making ie for caramels etc.

View Post


Do you use the glucose in place of regular sugar in recipes? Or are you making judgment calls based on your experience to determine how much to use? I've made caramels before, but always with non-professional recipes that just called for sugar and other regular kitchen ingredients, so I'm not sure how I would make that substitution.

Do you find that it makes better caramels than regular sugar?

View Post

Caramels use both sucrose and glucose. The glucose helps prevent crystallization after cooking. Check out the recipe and descriptions here in the caramel class in the eGCI. Just use your Karo syrup.

It makes a really nice caramel. Give it a try.

Edited by Kerry Beal, 22 August 2008 - 06:13 PM.


#8 digigirl

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Posted 22 August 2008 - 06:15 PM

Thanks Kerry!
Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body...but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, wine in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"

#9 scratch

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Posted 25 August 2008 - 11:03 PM

Kerry & Valerie,

Thanks for the great questions and information! Mystery solved!!
:biggrin:

Edited by scratch, 25 August 2008 - 11:04 PM.


#10 digigirl

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Posted 27 August 2008 - 10:16 AM

Another question!

Greweling says, in recipes, to "massage the butter into the chocolate." What exactly does that mean?

I took a chocolate class at Sur la Table last year and when we made the ganache, we poured the hot cream over the chocolate wafers, let it sit for a little bit, then stirred gently with a rubber spatula in concentric circles starting at the center. After it was emulsified, we added the liquor and then the very soft butter, which was also stirred in.

Greweling wants the butter massaged into melted chocolate before adding the cream. Is massaging the same as stirring? Or is there some technique here I'm not getting?

I'd like to try the method described elsewhere on this board by SteveKlc (I think - hope I got that right!) of pouring the melted chocolate into the cream (instead of vice versa). And I think the butter is added at the end of that procedure also.

Any input from y'all who have done some of these Greweling recipes already?
Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body...but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, wine in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"

#11 David Israel

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Posted 27 August 2008 - 01:11 PM

Another question!

Greweling says, in recipes, to "massage the butter into the chocolate."  What exactly does that mean?

I took a chocolate class at Sur la Table last year and when we made the ganache, we poured the hot cream over the chocolate wafers, let it sit for a little bit, then stirred gently with a rubber spatula in concentric circles starting at the center.  After it was emulsified, we added the liquor and then the very soft butter, which was also stirred in.

Greweling wants the butter massaged into melted chocolate before adding the cream.  Is massaging the same as stirring?  Or is there some technique here I'm not getting?

I'd like to try the method described elsewhere on this board by SteveKlc (I think - hope I got that right!) of pouring the melted chocolate into the cream (instead of vice versa).  And I think the butter is added at the end of that procedure also.

Any input from y'all who have done some of these Greweling recipes already?

View Post

When I've made ganaches from Greweling's book that call for "massaging" the butter into the chocolate, I've added the very soft (i.e., around 85 degrees F) butter into the tempered chocolate and stirred it until it was incorporated. I believe the key here is to ensure no lumps of butter remain; if needed I've worked any such lumps between the side of the bowl and the spatula to smooth them out. Once the butter's added you'll see the chocolate thicken considerably.

Now, if only the ganache would massage me! :raz:

#12 emmalish

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Posted 30 August 2008 - 06:56 PM

I made the marshmallows yesterday – they turned out great! I've never made marshmallows before, so I was a little nervous. And frankly, I've never really been fond of them – but I've only ever had the mass-produced things. These are amazing.

I made a half batch, and after whipping for 8 minutes they were still light and fluffy and really easy to spread in the pan (which made me a bit nervous, because I'd read that other people have trouble spreading the marshmallows). They seem fine – they set up nicely, and they're all sliced and coated and waiting to be eaten.

So today I decided I'd try making his hot chocolates. Again, a half batch, but this time the marshmallow set up really quickly and I had a really hard time spreading it in the pan (not to mention getting it out of the bowl). It looks pretty clumpy, but because I'll be spreading a ganache over it later I'm not too concerned. I'm going to assume that because it's a much smaller amount than the other batch I made, it cooled too quickly. What I've tasted so far is quite nice. I had the same problem that someone else mentioned (here or in the marshmallows thread) that the cinnamon sank to the bottom of the bowl and wasn't properly incorporated in the final marshmallow. Still tastes cinnamon-y though. Can't wait to finish them off. I'll post pics then...

Edited by emmalish, 30 August 2008 - 06:57 PM.

I'm gonna go bake something…

wanna come with?


#13 Darienne

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Posted 31 August 2008 - 05:31 AM

Hello all,

I am a new member of eG and a great fan of the Greweling book, which is THE book as some have said.

Slowly I am working my way through this long and interesting thread, along with a number of other long and interesting threads, and don't feel as if I have anything to say until I get further along in my reading.

However, there is one question on my mind and perhaps someone could tell me where on this thread I might find the answer.

Greweling never seems to use 70% chocolate in any recipe. He states in the intro that he is using 64% dark, but does he say why he never uses 70% at all? I find it wonderful to enrobe sweet centers, to counteract the 'sweetness' factor.

BTW, the very best confection I have made to date is Greweling's Montielimar nougat. Joy reigned supreme while eating that nougat which was so perfect in every way. But can I do it again? Definitely a two-person job and I did it with my partner in candy, Barbara.

Thanks for any 70% answers.
Darienne


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Cheers & Chocolates

#14 Kerry Beal

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Posted 31 August 2008 - 06:01 AM

Hello all,

I am a new member of eG and a great fan of the Greweling book, which is THE book as some have said.

Slowly I am working my way through this long and interesting thread, along with a number of other long and interesting threads, and don't feel as if I have anything to say until I get further along in my reading.

However, there is one question on my mind and perhaps someone could tell me where on this thread I might find the answer.

Greweling never seems to use 70% chocolate in any recipe.  He states in the intro that he is using 64% dark, but does he say why he never uses 70% at all?  I find it wonderful to enrobe sweet centers, to counteract the 'sweetness' factor.

BTW, the very best confection I have made to date is Greweling's Montielimar nougat.  Joy reigned supreme while eating that nougat which was so perfect in every way.  But can I do it again?  Definitely a two-person job and I did it with my partner in candy, Barbara.

Thanks for any 70% answers.

View Post

Probably not a satisfactory answer, but I think we all tend to use what we use. Some folks get involved in showcasing the distinct flavours of different origin chocolates, others in the techniques of decoration. Ultimately It comes down to choosing chocolate you like and can work with.

Greweling's recipes are certainly not set in stone. Subbing different chocolates may improve his recipes in some areas and may result in failures in others. depending on the cocoa vs cocoa butter percentages - but go for it - it's only chocolate!

#15 Darienne

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Posted 31 August 2008 - 08:07 AM

go for it - it's only chocolate!

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Thanks Kerry. And thanks for encouraging me to join eG.

That's what I intend to do...go for it!
Darienne


learn, learn, learn...

Cheers & Chocolates

#16 Habeas Brulee

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Posted 02 September 2008 - 05:07 PM

Darienne - I've been using 70% chocolate in making some of the chocolates from this book, adapting the recipes to dark chocolate as needed, and it works out great. Don't worry!

#17 Darienne

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Posted 02 September 2008 - 06:25 PM

Darienne - I've been using 70% chocolate in making some of the chocolates from this book, adapting the recipes to dark chocolate as needed, and it works out great. Don't worry!

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Thanks Habeas,

When you say 'adapting', what do you mean? Are you adding something else, or more of some ingredient or less of some ingredient?
Darienne


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Cheers & Chocolates

#18 Darienne

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Posted 17 September 2008 - 03:03 PM

Has anyone made Greweling's Lemon Mint Ganache, p.122, and how did it turn out?

Looking through Greweling today I saw that nowhere in this recipe does it say to remove the mint, 'chopped very finely', from the ganache. The photo shows these lovely creamy white fillings dipped in a dark chocolate.

Friends had a truffle making session Christmas 07, and we made a mint flavored ganache, also in white chocolate. The mint chopper chopped the mint very finely. We steeped, etc...however, we strained out the mint as best we could. The resulting ganache was a green color which I hesitate to describe. It was not appealing. We reluctantly all agreed it looked exactly like something quite familiar and very unappealing. Tasted great!

How did Greweling get that beautiful color in his ganache with all that finely chopped mint?
Darienne


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Cheers & Chocolates

#19 emmalish

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Posted 17 September 2008 - 06:58 PM

Has anyone made Greweling's Lemon Mint Ganache, p.122,  and how did it turn out?

Looking through Greweling today I saw that nowhere in this recipe does it say to remove the mint, 'chopped very finely', from the ganache.  The photo shows these lovely creamy white fillings dipped in a dark chocolate.

View Post

I've made it once. I left the mint in, and it's really not very visible. It's chopped very finely and spread out sparsely through the ganache, so you won't see it much at all. I'm tempted to zest my lemon and keep it in rather than taking the peel out next time I try this one. And I definitely will try it again. Very nice flavours.

Here's a pic of how mine turned out...
Posted Image

You can barely see a little bit of green in the upper right side of the sliced one. The finished ganache is a very pale yellowy-green, almost white.

(please ignore how pixel-y this image is – I forgot I had my ISO set too high)

I'm gonna go bake something…

wanna come with?


#20 Darienne

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Posted 18 September 2008 - 06:19 AM

(deleted the wrong quotey thingies...)

Here's a pic of how mine turned out...

You can barely see a little bit of green in the upper right side of the sliced one. The finished ganache is a very pale yellowy-green, almost white.


Hi Emmalish. You're right. Yours look lovely. The other strange thing about ours is that we used far less mint then Greweling called for. The mint was fresh. It was strained out. What more can I say? It was a gruesome color. We are it anyway. :laugh:

I'll try it again...

Edited by Darienne, 18 September 2008 - 06:21 AM.

Darienne


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#21 emmalish

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Posted 29 September 2008 - 09:43 PM

So today I decided I'd try making his hot chocolates. Again, a half batch, but this time the marshmallow set up really quickly and I had a really hard time spreading it in the pan (not to mention getting it out of the bowl). It looks pretty clumpy, but because I'll be spreading a ganache over it later I'm not too concerned. I'm going to assume that because it's a much smaller amount than the other batch I made, it cooled too quickly. What I've tasted so far is quite nice. I had the same problem that someone else mentioned (here or in the marshmallows thread) that the cinnamon sank to the bottom of the bowl and wasn't properly incorporated in the final marshmallow. Still tastes cinnamon-y though. Can't wait to finish them off. I'll post pics then...

View Post

I finally got around to taking a photo of these.

Posted Image

As I said upthread, the marshmallows set up too quickly and ended up all lumpy, so you can see that there's crazy variation in the thickness of the two layers. The instructions in the recipe said to use 2 sets of 1/4" rulers, but if you look at the picture in the book the marshmallow layer appears quite a bit thicker than the ganache. I think next time I make these I'll make a full batch of the marshmallow (since a half batch was so difficult to work with), spread it using 3/8" rulers, and then top that with 1/4" of ganache.

Overall I really like these. I need to find a better way to add the cinnamon so it doesn't just sink to the bottom though.

I'm not quite sure what happened, but the coating of chocolate seems too thick on the tops. It didn't seem any thicker than usual when I was working with it. Although I have to say, I always thought I'd done a pretty good job with my tempering before this. But when I bit into my first hot chocolate, it sounded like I'd bitten a carrot. Such a snap!

I'm gonna go bake something…

wanna come with?


#22 Desiderio

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Posted 30 September 2008 - 11:06 AM

They look pretty good!
For the cinnamon what about cinnamon oil? We use it in the Pastiera to keep the filling from getting dark due the cinnamon powder. Now I don't know how that will react with the marshmallow batter, maybe ill try it myself.
Vanessa

#23 patris

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Posted 30 September 2008 - 12:42 PM

They look pretty good!
For the cinnamon what about cinnamon oil? We use it in the Pastiera to keep the filling from getting dark due the cinnamon powder. Now I don't know how that will react with the marshmallow batter, maybe ill try it myself.

View Post


We use cinnamon extract in ours - it works perfectly. I worry about putting flavoring oils in marshmallow, because I think it might interfere with aeration or, at the very least, the final texture.
Patty

#24 emmalish

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Posted 30 September 2008 - 12:56 PM

Thanks for the advice, both of you! I just ordered some flavourings and I'm pretty sure one of them was cinnamon. I can't remember whether it's an extract or an oil though.

I'm gonna go bake something…

wanna come with?


#25 Tri2Cook

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Posted 30 September 2008 - 01:12 PM

For cinnamon marshmallows, I cook cinnamon sticks in the pan with the syrup then pull them out before adding the syrup to the mixer. Caramelizing a little sugar with the cinnamon sticks then adding in the rest of the syrup ingredients gives a really nice flavor as well.
It's kinda like wrestling a gorilla... you don't stop when you're tired, you stop when the gorilla is tired.

#26 tammylc

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Posted 01 October 2008 - 07:37 AM

I don't know what Grewling's technique is, but I did a lot of pumpkin marshmallows around Halloween last year. I put the pumpkin pie spice directly into my sugar syrup (and also in with the gelatin/puree mixture IIRC) and never had any problem with the spices separating.

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#27 patris

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Posted 01 October 2008 - 09:03 AM

I don't know what Grewling's technique is, but I did a lot of pumpkin marshmallows around Halloween last year. I put the pumpkin pie spice directly into my sugar syrup (and also in with the gelatin/puree mixture IIRC) and never had any problem with the spices separating.

View Post


We do the exact same thing - cook pumpkin and spices with the sugar, and add spices to the gelatin and puree. We just tend to end up with some swirls of spice throughout, because the spices seemed to settle to the bottom of the bowl (though my recipe calls for lots and lots of spices, which may encourage that effect).
Patty

#28 Desiderio

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Posted 04 October 2008 - 06:40 AM

I finally got to try the hot chocolates and they turned pretty good, I did a full batch since it seems that Greweling formulas don't split well, like for nougat etc. I should have asked this before finishing the chocolates but what is the best way to cut them? Unfortunately the ganache set too hard in my basement cause the temperatures and it end up cracking under the marshmallow, but was ok I guess since the marshmallow kept all together, the problem was doing a clean cut, the marhmallow tend to be sticky and the edges aren't clean and sharp so the final look of the chocolates isn't so attractive. Any tip? I really like the flavor and the combination.
Vanessa

#29 John DePaula

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Posted 04 October 2008 - 06:46 AM

I finally got to try the hot chocolates and they turned pretty good, I did a full batch since it seems that Greweling formulas don't split well, like for nougat etc. I should have asked this before finishing the chocolates but what is the best way to cut them? Unfortunately the ganache set too hard in my basement cause the temperatures and it end up cracking under the marshmallow, but was ok I guess since the marshmallow kept all together, the problem was doing a clean cut, the marhmallow tend to be sticky and the edges aren't clean and sharp so the final look of the chocolates isn't so attractive. Any tip? I really like the flavor and the combination.

View Post

To cut, I use a very wide cheese slicer (2-handled 18" across variety) that has been lightly rubbed with cooking spray. It's still sticky but if you're patient, it will usually just fall away by itself, though sometimes I "encourage" it by pushing lightly.
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#30 Desiderio

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Posted 27 October 2008 - 09:55 AM

Ill try next time, thank you John :smile:

On another recipe, the Cocomels, I just made a batch yesterday and I will coat them today. I have few questions for who already made these.

-I have already noticed that the recipe for his carame ( the one with evaporated milk ) produce a very sticky caramel, much different from the one I am used to, and I dont necessarily like it. Is that the way it is or its just me?

-The coconut caramel layer is still kinda sticky and when I cut into it it tends to fall over the caramel layer. So the result is a kinda sticky too mushy coconut layer and a little bit to hard and sticky caramel. I know already this recipe isnt for me, its too sweet and too sticky.

I dont know why I am having such hard time with his recepies, the theory works fine for all the ganaches, but the other recepies are always a disapointing, or maybe I am cursing myself thinking the recepie isnt going to work :wacko: .

I am about to give up on some of his recepies and just keep the theory.
Vanessa