41 replies to this topic

[reggie_212]

While in London recently I had a few pints of the Guinness Extra Cold which I found far superior to the original stout. The bartender told me the only difference between the two is that the pumping system for the extra cold variety keeps the pipes cold. Would anyone know of a bar or pub in any major American city that has this equipment?

Usually, with most other brand names uniformity is a goal for the product. But with Guinness I have noticed alot of variation in their stout internationally. For one reason or another, the Guinness sold in Europe is generally better than that sold in the states. In addition, even tastier Guinness can be had in Ireland. Ask any Irishman and chances are they would agree.

[Simon Majumdar]

I am sure that someone will correct me if I am wrong, but I thought that the idea of extra cold beers and "smoothflow" beers was to create uniformity for a new generation of drinkers and ease of storage for pub managers.

I much prefer Guinness from the bottle now as it actually has a taste. The nitro keg beers just mask any flavour withn the coldness and that is the point

A few years ago, I was producing a book with Brains brewery in Wales. They wanted to produce a nitro keg beer called "DYLAN'S" which I thought was slightly innappropriate give that the chap drank himself to death.

The marketing guy argued that most of their major audience ( 18-35's ) drank lagers as they had little flavour ( we are talking Stella and fosters here ) but that it was a more expensive process and less profitable.

The nitro keg bitters ( Boddingtons is a classic example ) were far more profitable ( he argued ) and needed no special training to look after them, would always be the same in every outlet and with a good marketing campaign, could be aimed at the target audience

The marketing campaigns for these were so successful that Nitro Keg beers became the fastest growing sector in the UK.

The trend now continues with Murphys launching a fast flow as younger drinkers can't cope with the wait entailed in pouring a proper pint of stout.

S

[Gavin Jones]

I had a few pints of the Guinness Extra Cold which I found far superior to the original stout. ...the only difference between the two is that the pumping system for the extra cold variety keeps the pipes cold.

Yes, it's just put through a cooler for people who want to drink lager but like the idea of guinness. And Simon's comments are to the point on Nitro-kegging - to the extent that I expect to see him at the next eGullet event with a flowing beard and a repertoire of folk-songs.

[bourdain]

Extra Cold Guinness is a sin against God, and an evil dumbing down of His chosen beverage for heretical rubes.

[Simon Majumdar]

While I can understand the advent of cold flow and nitro keg beers from a commercial and marketing point of view, I cannot understand it from a consumer point of view not just because of taste ( or lack of it )but also from a cost standpoint

Take my own neighbourhood for example

Local pub round the corner - Pint of entirely ordinary Tetley Smooth = £2.80

The Wenlock Arms - Pint of one of an assortment of nine beers = £1.80-2.00

Go figure

S

[Belmont3]

" if it ain't broke, why fix it" Long live Guinness Original

[Matthew Grant]

Several years ago, long before Extra cold, i visited the Guinness brewery in Dublin and the difference that struck me most was how cold they served the drink compared to most pubs, expecially those in England.

The other thing that made Guinness a more reliable drink was when the barrels were changed so that you had a seperate gas supply. The difference was very noticeable (my girlfriends parents used to run a predominantly Irish social club), and the Guinness was a lot more reliable. Prior to that, the standard was variable with the best barrells clearly being those stamped "St. James Gate". We were never sure how we got these at the club but most of the Guinness was brewed in England, whenever you opened one with the Dublin stamp on it the quality was far better. This did all change (in my opinion for the better) however with the new gas supply.

[reggie_212]

Okay, then.... Looks like I'm the no nothing bumpkin, just another of the countless masses who are ruining everything with our generic gentrified tastes.

In my defense, I will say that the issue we're discussing concerns personal preference. As an American raised at a, not too, early age drinking cold beer, it as always been the case that I prefer colder to warmer. I'm sure I'm not the only one that feels this way. For example, as a general rule, Americans disdain the hand cranked beer commonly found in England, a main reason being the temerature at which it is served (from what I know the casks are kept in a cool basement with no other care needed). Hence, as this relates to Guinness, I was making a personal and cultural statement rather than claiming that on any objective level it is better. I like chocolate, you like vanilla, and that's okay..

The second point I would like to make is that as I mentioned in the original post, there is so much variation in the way Guinness is served. Without a doubt, the Guinness served in Ireland tastes very distinct than the stout exported (in fact, an Irishman I once met in a bar in Barcelona confirmed that there are seperate batches marked "export"--he himself was drinking an Estrella because he couldn't stand the taste of Guinness outside of Ireland). Also, there are differences in the way each individual vendor keeps the kegs. For example, I know the "proper" temperature to serve a Guinness at is about 55F while in most pubs in NYC, the kegs for all the taps are kept in the same place so it is generally served colder than that. I guess the point I'm making then is unless you're drinking a pint in a pub in Dublin, you're not actually drinking an "original" pint of stout.

[g.johnson]

Guinness has at least two breweries. St. James' Gate in Dublin and Park Royal in London. The latter seems to produce an inferior product.

[tommy]

english guinness is for tourists.

Edited by tommy, 01 January 2003 - 05:22 PM.

[Rail Paul]

On my September, 2002 visit to St James's Gate, I was also surprised at the cool serving temperature for the regular Guinness. It wasn't quick pour, there was a 60 second pause to settle the head, but the brew was no more than 45-48 degrees F.

Question on the kegs -

Is the US stuff kegged in the US from much larger containers shipped here? I saw several tanker trucks (10,000 gal?) of Guinness, so I'm guessing they load up a ship with a few large containers, then fill the 32 gal kegs here in the US

[Matthew Grant]

I imagine that Guinness is brewed in more than one place in the US. It is brewed under licence in dozens of countries.

[Schielke]

I have heard that each guinness brew is designed to appeal to the country it is being sold in. I have no proof to back that up though.

Ben

[Andy Lynes]

Yes, it's just put through a cooler for people who want to drink lager but like the idea of guinness.

That'll be me then.

[StephenT]

Yes, it's just put through a cooler for people who want to drink lager but like the idea of guinness.

That'll be me then.

You like the idea of drinking liquid charcoal?

[Andy Lynes]

I like the reality more than the idea.

[Wilfrid]

I don't find draft Guinness in the States to be noticeably different from draft Guinness in the UK. I hesitate to compare it with draft Guinness in Ireland, as it's many years since I've drunk at the source.

[Andy Lynes]

I've had guiness recently in Dublin and less recently in Belfast and it certainly seems to taste better over there, but there is a very strong possibility that it is purely psychological.

[tigger26]

i had to laugh recently when i saw a local chicago daily headline touting local bars with the best cold guiness. and no, i dont think it was trend spotting, just bad writing/editing.

[Andy Lynes]

This link addresses "better in Ireland?" question http://www.guinness...._126325,00.html .

[Rail Paul]

This link addresses "better in Ireland?" question http://www.guinness...._126325,00.html .

Good link.

The Irish brewed product uses water from the Wicklow mountains. I wonder if there are noticeable differences in the brews using water from the other 150 countries where Guinness is distributed?


Budweiser required a two week transition period when they switched their water source for the Newark NJ brewery from North Jersey Water company to Elizabethtown Water. Different mix of water elements, salts, etc so the water people tuned the mix of filtering agents for the new source. The brewery went on producing America's best selling beer.

[Andy Lynes]

Distributed in 150 but brewed locally in only 51 countries.

[Gavin Jones]

The brewery went on producing America's best selling beer.

The conclusion being?

My understanding (& drinking) was that guinness is traditionally served warmer in Belfast than Dublin.
As I mostly drunk it in Belfast I go for the enlightenment style. (Drink with Diderot).

[g.johnson]

This link addresses "better in Ireland?" question http://www.guinness...._126325,00.html .

What’s with the Guinness site?

You must not access this site if you are resident in any of the
following countries:

France and the French overseas territories and departments/ France et Départments ou Territoires d'outre mer français (French Guiana, Guadeloupe, Martinique, Réunion, Mayotte, St Pierre and Miquelon, French Polynesia, New Caledonia, Southern and Antarctic Territories, Wallis and Futuna Islands) Afghanistan, Azerbaijan, Bahrain, Denmark, Egypt, Ethiopia, Finland, Hungary, Iceland, Iran, Iraq, Jordan, Kazakhstan, Krygystan, Kuwait, Libya, Norway, Oman, Pakistan, Poland, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Sweden, Syria, Tajikistan, Togo, Turkmenistan, United Arab Emirates, Uzbekistan, Yemen.

[Rail Paul]

This link addresses "better in Ireland?" question http://www.guinness...._126325,00.html .

What’s with the Guinness site?

You must not access this site if you are resident in any of the
following countries:

France and the French overseas territories and departments/ France et Départments ou Territoires d'outre mer français (French Guiana, Guadeloupe, Martinique, Réunion, Mayotte, St Pierre and Miquelon, French Polynesia, New Caledonia, Southern and Antarctic Territories, Wallis and Futuna Islands) Afghanistan, Azerbaijan, Bahrain, Denmark, Egypt, Ethiopia, Finland, Hungary, Iceland, Iran, Iraq, Jordan, Kazakhstan, Krygystan, Kuwait, Libya, Norway, Oman, Pakistan, Poland, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Sweden, Syria, Tajikistan, Togo, Turkmenistan, United Arab Emirates, Uzbekistan, Yemen.

France has an antarctic territory?

Visions of penguins skinned and broiled, cases of vin rouge airfreighted to the poilus marooned there.

[Gavin Jones]

France has an antarctic territory?

Wasn't it divvied up in a great powers WWI type agreement?
There's an interesting question here
a. Factual political
b. Extra Cold - what is the diet available for inhabitants of the Antarctic. I have lost my copy of Apsley Cherry-Gerrard but will look out. What a bastard Scott was.

Do Penguins carry the risk of a vitamin A overdose (Pinguin au couscous springs to mind).

[LiquidBread]

I remember drinking Guinness in an "Irish" pub in NYC last St. Pats Day. I had some actual real life Irish folk standing next to me letting me know that the Guinness I was drinking was crap and it's only good in Ireland (tasted pretty good to me!). It just so happened that I went to Dublin a few weeks latter and had Guinness.... I didn't notice a difference. 3 things I did notice: they do take a lot more time to pour their Guinness, which I like; the grass seems greener in Ireland; I have a thing for Irish girls.

Edited by LiquidBread, 03 January 2003 - 06:18 AM.

[Matthew Grant]

I've had guiness recently in Dublin and less recently in Belfast and it certainly seems to taste better over there, but there is a very strong possibility that it is purely psychological.

I'm with Andy on this (we were discussing this today before I saw your post). Prior to the change in the gas system (see my earlier post) there was a noticeable difference, but now I think people get caught up in the romanticism of drinking a pint in Ireland compared to drinking a pint in any other country.

[Damian]

Haven't noticed a great difference between Guinness as served in the U.S., Ireland, UK, or Italy for that matter. I have noticed flavor variations in all of these places (OK, except Italy), mostly along the lines of a fresh and slightly sweet taste versus stale and somewhat mustier taste. Temperature has been pretty much the same, cool to fairly cold but never warm nor icy. I think there is such a thing as a place that serves good Guinness versus bad Guinness, but it is far more likely to be a factor of how clean the bar keeps its lines and equipment and how much of the stuff it turns over than of more subtle differences in water or brewing. Not that I totally discount water and brewing, just that I think one would need a decent size sample from outlets serving from a given brewery or water source to overcome more intrusive flavor factors. Any volunteers?

Actually, the Irish brew I wish they would import to the U.S. (in addition to me beloved black) is Smithwick's.

[Gavin Jones]

Actually, the Irish brew I wish they would import to the U.S. (in addition to me beloved black) is Smithwick's.

As in the gaseous beer-alike widely available?

Go drinking in the 'Kitchen' in Belfast & get a proper pint.