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"Artisan Bread in Five Minutes a Day" Zoe Francois (2010–)


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#61 lesliec

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Posted 25 May 2010 - 06:14 PM

OK, Heartsurgeon's focaccia is definitely on my list!

One question, HS - what yeast did you use? You specify 12g, which is about what I use of fresh yeast in the basic recipe, but was yours fresh or dried?

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#62 Heartsurgeon

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 05:35 PM

i use Fleischman's Instant Dry Yeast.
i buy it at Sam's Club, about $5.00 for 2 pounds of yeast!
it comes 1 pound foil packets. I keep it all refrigerated, and store the yeast in a Foodsaver jar under vacumn (came with the Foodsaver Sealer Kit).
two pounds of yeast lasts me about a year!
very reproducible results, NO flavor difference compared to many other yeasts including fresh.

i went through a phase of trying all the different types of yeast i could find, to see if i could make my bread taste better (including the fresh yeast).
frankly, the only difference i could identify was the price. the fresh yeast is crazy expensive compared to the Sam's Club/Fleischman's dry yeast.

my flavor breakthrough (breadier tasting bread) was the addition of malt.
the malt idea i got from reading the ingredients list of La Brea Bread, which i happen to like a great deal.
actually, the whole reason i got into bread making was the La Brea bread went up in price significantly several years ago, and it irritated me to pay that much for bread, so i decided to make my own!

i also trued numerous different flours, and ended up really liking King Arthur.
there is a local grain miller about 30 miles away that will mill me winter wheat (high protein) 50 pound bags very inexpensively. I haven't done it to date, but you never know. if anyone out there is making large amounts of this bread, you may want to investigate local millers that will do this for you. google maps searching for grain millers will help you find them near you.

Edited by Heartsurgeon, 26 May 2010 - 05:44 PM.


#63 Zoe Francois

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 05:56 PM

Hi Lesliec,

The salt technically will retard or slow down the yeast if left in a wet solution, but the recipe is going together so quickly it really won't make an appreciable difference in the dough. In all of the buckets of dough (and there have been 100s) I have made, I have never noticed a difference in the performance between batches mixed with the salt and yeast together or separated. I have added the ingredients to the bucket in every possible order and the outcome of the bread is always the same. The only exception is when I am adding VWG to a batch of whole grain dough.

Like Heartsurgeon I use a bulk yeast that I buy from my local costco, but in my case it is RED STAR. It is a 2 pound vacuum packed bag for about $3.50. I love the results and it is a huge savings.

Thanks! Zoë

#64 Jmahl

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Posted 30 May 2010 - 08:25 AM

Heartsurgeon's basic formula with chopped sundried tomatos and brewer's yeast added. Very rustic, different.

Bread w sun dried tomato 001.JPG

Bread w sun dried tomato 003.JPG
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#65 Heartsurgeon

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Posted 01 June 2010 - 12:35 PM

you need to mail me some of the bread for a taste test!

#66 Jmahl

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Posted 01 June 2010 - 05:52 PM

you need to mail me some of the bread for a taste test!


Like to -- but it does not travel well - and, we ate it all.
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#67 Luke

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Posted 10 July 2010 - 03:35 AM

Hi All,

This has been a great thread, and I have read each page with interest.

I've just started experimenting with the recipe suggested by Heartsurgeoon. I'm now onto my 3rd batch and thought I would share my experiences.

Here is a picture of my first loaf. It was based on 100% all purpose flour, and I was so keen to try it out I only had it in fridge for 24 hours (sounds like a common mistake). I put way too much dough in the pot for this one. 75% hydration as suggested by Heartsurgeon, but this was too dry for my flour (I did not know this at the time). I handled the dough quite a bit while shaping it. The crumb was dense and tight.
1st Loaf.jpg

My second batch of dough was left in the fridge for 3 days. It was made with a mixture of special white flour (I'm not really sure what is "special" about it) and all purpose flour. Hydration was increased to 78%. It was smaller, had more oven spring, better flavour and crumb was OK.
2nd Loaf.jpg

2nd Load Crumb.jpg

I came to the conclusion that due to the flours I was using, the hydration could increase while still keeping the dough workable. As noted by Heartsurgeon, you need to be prepared to experiment. So I did. Flour was again 75% special white, 25% all purpose. Hydration was increased to 85%. It spent 4 days in the fridge.

As you can see, it produced an excellent crumb, but it was very hard to work with. I think a hydration of 82% would be more appropriate. That being said, it was the best bread I have ever made. The air pockets were exactly what I wanted, and I flavor was fantastic. Crust was crunchy too.

3rd Loaf.jpg

3rd Load Crumb.jpg

I took some of the dough and tried the technique suggested by lesleic on page 20. It didn't work. I'm not sure what I did wrong. You can see in the last photo, the bread on top was the boule that had minimal handling before baking. The loaf on the bottom was a ciabatta style loaf which was folded as per lesleic instructions.

3rd Load crumb 2.jpg

I've just made my fourth batch with 80% hydration and I'll let you know how it goes.

Cheers
Luke

Edited by Luke, 10 July 2010 - 04:17 AM.


#68 Heartsurgeon

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 07:31 AM

tasty looking!

you have 2 options to improve crumb.
increasing hydration ( which you've done).
the second is rise time.

how long are you letting your dough rise after you've shaped the boule?

i gradually increased the rise time to 2 hours, and found that it improved the crumb significantly.

i tried making bread years ago, and was not very successful (super dense and bland). gave up.

this technique (props to Zoe), makes bread baking easy, reproducible, and fun.
It does require tweaking however, as every little thing has some effect on the final outcome.
However, by harnessing your OCD, fabulous bread can be result.

Your greatest threat will become other family members..they will EAT your bread up and demand more......

#69 lesliec

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 06:24 PM

Your greatest threat will become other family members..they will EAT your bread up and demand more......


Can't argue with that!

Luke, the only reason I can think of that your dough misbehaved when you followed my loaf-folding instructions was that maybe you folded it a bit too enthusiastically! The first part of flattening the boule does get it fairly squashed, but the folds themselves just involve flattening the edges you're folding. (That sounds really clumsy now I read it again ...)

Or, as Heartsurgeon mentions, maybe it wanted longer to rise afterwards. I generally only let mine rise for half an hour or so using the basic recipe, but with variations in ingredients, ambient temperature, whatever, you may need longer).

Persevere, sir, persevere. This is a fabulous way to produce magnificent bread with, really, very little effort.

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#70 Luke

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Posted 19 July 2010 - 04:10 AM

Thanks for the tips guys.

I think I have this pretty close to where I want it now.

Here is a photo of a loaf from batch #4.
4th Loaf.jpg

Here is a close up of the crumb. I have not dusted off the flour yet.
4th crumb.jpg

I have settled on this recipe

250grams pizza flour
750grams special white flour (11.9% protein)
20g fine semolina
2tsp honey
12grams instant dried yeast
18grams salt
800mls water

Water ratio = 78.5%

Mix, Rest out of fridge 1 hour, retarded rise in fridge 3 days, remove, shape, rise 2 to 3 hours depending on how warm the ambient air temp is.

Cook in pre-heated pot with lid for 30mins @ 250 deg cel, remove lid cook for 15 minutes at 215 deg cel.

The only aspect I am not entirely happy with is how I am slashing the dough before baking, and the crust.

Thanks again
Luke

#71 Heartsurgeon

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Posted 19 July 2010 - 08:47 AM

your bread looks fantastic.

i agree you slashing technique is not optimal.

if this advice sounds pedantic, i apologize. it reflects my own experience (mostly errors).

your bread should "open up" more with proper slashes. this will make your crumb (which looks pretty darn good already) even better.

I prefer deep slashes. Slashing high hydration dough is tricky however. The dough sticks to your knife, and the wet dough tends to seal back up after its slashed.
To counter these problems...

I use a teflon coated knife (Kuhn Rikon Paring Knife Nonstick, abpout $10.00), that i hide from the family, so it only gets used to slash dough.

Slash the bread JUST before you pop it in the oven, not a moment sooner!!!!!

I place a line of flour on the dough, just before slashing, where i plan to make the cut. As i make the cut (usually 2-3 cuts per slash), i knock lots of the flour INTO the slash, after the first cut. This is critical, as it keeps the slash open. The 2nd and 3rd cuts are then being made through a valley filled with flour, to end up with a flour coated slash of the desired depth.

Then pop the bread into the oven, then add the water to the pan.

If you slash to soon, the slash will seal up, if you don't push flour into the slash, the slash will seal up.

it appears to me, that your slashes may have sealed back up before the bread had a chance to really rise up.

if you do it right, the bread will have tremendous loft, and the bread will open up like a flower.

also, try some malt power, it makes your bread taste more "bready"

#72 lesliec

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Posted 19 July 2010 - 07:17 PM

I don't have any problem with slashes since I started using my scalloped bread knife (see post 578 for a closeup of the blade). I do my flouring (not very thick; just a general dusting over the whole surface) before slashing; the edges of the slash spring back from the blade, revealing the 'raw' surface underneath (I've always imagined that the contast between the floured and 'raw' surfaces is what gives the lovely striped appearance of a cooked loaf. Any dissenters?).

Again just theorising, but if your dough doesn't spring away from the knife, could it be under- or over-risen? I mean mine really springs - just as I would if somebody ran a sharp knife over me!

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#73 robirdstx

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Posted 19 July 2010 - 07:33 PM

I'm still not happy with my own slashes but I have read that the slashes are best when made more on the horizontal than on the vertical. I've just bought a new bread knife and plan to use it the next time I make slashes.

Edited by robirdstx, 19 July 2010 - 07:37 PM.


#74 Quasar

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Posted 26 July 2010 - 08:16 PM

Hi All,
I'm new to bread making and have had a couple of tries of the plain white bread and the sweat potato spelt bread and am in need some help.
The bread looks terrific straight out of the oven and it keeps a nice crunchy crust BUT the texture inside is gummy and needs to be toasted to be edible. Thank goodness I have a teenager that will eat mistakes!!

I've tried reducing the water each time I've mixed up a new batch to keep in the fridge but once cooked the texture seems to remain the same. I've also tried cooking the bread longer to the point where the outside crust is almost burnt. I've checked the oven temp and am sure that it is accurate.

Do I just keep reducing the water or am I missing something???

Thanks for any thoughts, I'd like to master the basics and then move on to some grain bread.

Quasar

#75 heidih

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Posted 26 July 2010 - 08:42 PM

Quasar- just my 2 cents but I think you are not getting the oven spring. I have had loaves like that when I just plop the dough on the pan and bake. Still good but needs a toast to shine. What method of baking are you using?

#76 Quasar

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Posted 27 July 2010 - 04:20 PM

Hi Heidi,
Thanks for the response, not sure how to get 'oven spring' but it sounds nice :)

I mix up my batch of dough, let it rise for 2 hours and then put it in the fridge overnight.

On baking day, I am letting the dough rest for an hour and a half before putting it onto a preheated pizza stone at 450 (230 celsius).
I have a pan sitting on the bottom oven shelf and pour in a couple of cups of boiling water.

Am I missing something?

Thanks for the help.
Quasar

#77 Luke

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 07:23 AM

Quasar,

Have you tried leaving it in the fridge for 3 days or more?

How large / what shape is your loaf? Can you provide a photo?

What type of flour are you using?

Luke

#78 Heartsurgeon

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 07:58 PM

Quasar

are you slashing the bread just prior to baking? no mention of this in your post

it would help if you listed the exact formula your using, and the brand name/type of flour your using, yeast etc. without the details, we are all just guessing at the answer.
it's best to do baking formulas in grams

also, do you have a oven thermometer to actual check the temp of your oven?

as i've posted before, different flours (all labeled "all purpose") can have astonishingly different optimal hydration ratios.

#79 Jmahl

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Posted 31 October 2010 - 12:40 PM

Tried something new today to form a loaf.Bread in a collar 001.JPG

Let the loaf rise in the ring of a 7" springform pan.

Bread in a collar 002.JPG

I put a paper collar around the inside of the ring and then removed the ring and paper after 20 minutes in the oven.

Bread in a collar 003.JPG

This loaf is half a regular batch and weighs one lb. 12oz.

What do you think of the results.
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#80 Heartsurgeon

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Posted 10 November 2010 - 03:13 PM

the crust looks superb, how was the crumb?

i like it when the bread appears to have "exploded" open at the slashes,
in my experience that seems to be associated with a really open crumb.

#81 Aember

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Posted 22 March 2011 - 06:02 PM

Hi folks! I'm wondering if anyone has done the ABin5 thing with a Cuban bread recipe?

I'm jonesing for a Miami style Cuban: soft, slightly fluffy crumb with good holes like the ones in these photos; crust is a bit underbaked, very thin, just barely beginning to golden (so as to get further color when you hot-press it for a Cuban sandwich!). The most promising recipe I've found is here, using vegetable shortening & unbleached flour: http://www.tasteofcu...pancubano.html. Right now, I'm trying the master HBin5 recipe, adding the 4 TBSP shortening in this recipe. I'm going to give it a go tomorrow & see how it turns out.

Sure would be nice to know if anyone else has tried this, though. :smile: I'll post results. Thanks!

#82 Aember

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Posted 22 March 2011 - 06:04 PM

Hi folks! I'm wondering if anyone has done the ABin5 thing with a Cuban bread recipe?

I'm jonesing for a Miami style Cuban: soft, slightly fluffy crumb with good holes like the ones in these photos; crust is a bit underbaked, very thin, just barely beginning to golden (so as to get further color when you hot-press it for a Cuban sandwich!). The most promising recipe I've found is here, using vegetable shortening & unbleached flour: http://www.tasteofcu...pancubano.html. Right now, I'm trying the master HBin5 recipe, adding the 4 TBSP shortening in this recipe. I'm going to give it a go tomorrow & see how it turns out.

Sure would be nice to know if anyone else has tried this, though. :smile: I'll post results. Thanks!


I didn't do the pre-dough starter, though. I figure I'll get the right flavor via the usual HBin5 method.
Oh man, there's nothing like Miami Cuban bread hot from the oven, spread with butter or olive oil, & a hot cup of cafe con leche. :wub:

Edited by Aember, 22 March 2011 - 06:06 PM.


#83 Aember

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Posted 24 March 2011 - 10:41 AM

I did it! I did it! It's the perfect flavor and just the right texture! Soft, fluffy, perfect, just like I remember. I'm GIDDY! I'll post pics later...Gotta chow! :biggrin:

#84 Aember

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Posted 24 March 2011 - 05:30 PM

Here they are! :wub:

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#85 lesliec

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Posted 25 March 2011 - 08:13 PM

Aember, you're a genius!

Inspired by your last few posts, I grated some cold butter into a half-quantity basic recipe, left it to sit while we went shopping then shaped/baked when we got home. It's brilliant - I wouldn't describe it as 'fluffy' but it's a little lighter than the straight recipe and the crust is delicious. Next time (and there'll be a next time) I'll make smaller loaves rather than the single 'normal' size one to change the crust/crumb ratio in favour of crust.

Thanks for the idea.

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#86 Jmahl

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 09:40 AM

Tried the Brioch recipe from the book.

Brioch 003.JPG

Here are the results. Baked in a ring mold from the dough from half a batch.

Brioch 006.JPG

This is the crumb. Really good.
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#87 Genkinaonna

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 02:16 PM

I've done the Brioche, and I just didn't feel like it had the lacy, pull apart type crumb that I get from my other brioche recipe...it was like the gluten development just wasn't there. However, the flavor is great, and it makes killer hamburger buns!

I've been using the olive oil dough to make pizzas on the grill...super easy and great for a quick meal once you've got a batch hanging out in the fridge...
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#88 cookingofjoy

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 03:37 PM

I just made the pumpkin brioche (from the healthy bread book) into cinnamon rolls for this morning. We've really liked the crescents, but they're not as make-ahead friendly. The rolls worked out really well in a 9x13 pan in the fridge overnight. I used half the batch for that pan, and have another pan in the freezer to try out next weekend. I'm hoping they freeze well, too!

#89 ChrisTaylor

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Posted 09 October 2011 - 01:02 AM

I've finally got around to actually attempting to use the book. I have a bit of a problem. I hate supermarket-grade bread--can't stomach it--and I hate the waste of buying good (expensive but nice) bread only to use maybe 4, maybe 6 slices from the entire loaf. At work I end up eating a lot of shit for lunch. It's expensive. It's bad for me. I'd be better off with, yes, bread.

So I opened up the book and mixed up my first batch of the main recipe. Bought a shiny new 7.something litre container to house it. I'm not intending to use it for a couple of days but I figured I'd let it mature a little.

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#90 ChrisTaylor

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Posted 15 October 2011 - 01:21 AM

The basic loaf isn't much to write home about on day two or three. After a week, tho'? It's really good. Mixing a new batch of dough tomorrow. Won't touch it until the following weekend.

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