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"Artisan Bread in Five Minutes a Day" Zoe Francois (2010–)


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#1 robirdstx

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Posted 19 January 2010 - 12:18 PM

[Moderator note: This topic became too large for our servers to handle efficiently, so we've divided it up; the earlier part of the discussion is here: "Artisan Bread in Five Minutes a Day" Zoe Francois (2008–2009)]

 

 

This is the first loaf from my first batch after reading through this thread and getting the book. We won't even talk about the batch I made before that! wacko.gif I let this batch sit in the fridge for four days before making the loaf. Great crust, good crumb and lovely aroma and taste. I used the cornmeal on the peel, hot stone and water in the pan method. Next time I will try the dutch oven and parchment method.

SimpleCrustyBread-03.jpg



#2 robirdstx

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Posted 25 January 2010 - 01:04 PM

This is my result when using the parchment paper in dutch oven method. Can't wait to have this bread with dinner tonight!





#3 Jmahl

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Posted 03 March 2010 - 04:18 PM

This is a recent loaf baked in a loaf pan. Nothing different then placing the dough in the pan after spraying with pan spray and putting some rolled oatmeal in the pan. So instead of getting a round flat loaf you get a long high loaf.

Bread loaf 002.JPG
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#4 Aember

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Posted 03 March 2010 - 07:46 PM

Hi, I just learned about this whole Artisan Bread in 5 thang, right after discovering Michael Ruhlman's Ratio bread recipes. Just getting used to the idea of ratios & baker's percentage, making great half whole wheat/unbleached pizza dough, boules for the past week. Then slam, it's all turned on its (my) head by this other sourdoughy no-knead recipe. I love the no-knead idea for the speed & making fresh small batches of bread whenever I want to.

Is there any way to reconcile this ABin5 recipe with baker's percentages/Ratio? Ratio & baker's % make sense to me. I'm one of those poor saps for whom things have to make sense. It gives me a certain comfort knowing how it all works. Any seasoned bakers have insights for this noob?

Thank ye :unsure:

Edited by Aember, 03 March 2010 - 07:49 PM.


#5 Aember

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Posted 03 March 2010 - 07:48 PM

Oh & thanx for demonstrating this bread in a loaf pan. What a beaut! I haven't been able to find anybody who made it in other than boule-variants. :smile:

Edited by Aember, 03 March 2010 - 07:50 PM.


#6 Chris Hennes

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Posted 03 March 2010 - 08:06 PM

Aember, this is a 75% hydration dough (a 3:4 water:flour ratio, by weight). I and several others in this discussion (Heartsurgeon mentions it above) use 0.12% salt, which I think is a perfect amount, but unfortunately doesn't really lend itself to the "small integer ratio" thing Ruhlman espouses. Maybe if you measure by volume it comes out to something even? I personally don't bother measuring the yeast at all, just add a little and watch the dough rise for however long it takes.

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#7 Aember

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Posted 03 March 2010 - 08:46 PM

Thanks, seems the yeast is relatively flexible when looking at other boards & reading on in Ratio. Thanks for the %/ratio breakdown. I dove right in & mixed up my first batch a while ago, we shall see. Won't touch it til tomorrow, then it'll be pizza night. :smile:

So now do I replace some flour & water when I pull out some dough or wait until the whole thing is finished & make more? Waiting on my ABin5 from Amazon.com...

#8 Chris Hennes

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Posted 03 March 2010 - 09:04 PM

The beauty of yeast is that it's alive... you add enough to get started, and they just keep multiplying until the food is gone (basically). So the amount of yeast you add affects your initial rise time, but not much beyond that, especially in a bread like this one, with a VERY long retardation phase.

I don't generally refresh mine until I only have about one loaf left, but I imagine you could work out a different schedule, if you wanted to refresh at all, and not simply start anew. You want to be careful that you don't develop it into a full-fledged sourdough, which this is not: the yeast are still (for all practical purposes) completely the commercial yeast you started with, not a sourdough yeast, which thrives in a more acidic environment. If you are wanting a sourdough, this is not a good path to follow to get yourself there.

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#9 hsm

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Posted 03 March 2010 - 09:25 PM

This is a recent loaf baked in a loaf pan. Nothing different then placing the dough in the pan after spraying with pan spray and putting some rolled oatmeal in the pan. So instead of getting a round flat loaf you get a long high loaf.

Bread loaf 002.JPG


I'm exited to try this, may I ask if you pre-heated the pan? (Lovely loaf!)

#10 Aember

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Posted 04 March 2010 - 04:48 AM

Made my first batch using Jmahl's recipe above without caraway seeds, using instant yeast. Took overnight for it to rise as ABin5 describes but it looks just right. Popped it in the fridge just now...Wish me luck.

#11 lesliec

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Posted 04 March 2010 - 03:17 PM


This is a recent loaf baked in a loaf pan ...


I'm exited to try this, may I ask if you pre-heated the pan? (Lovely loaf!)


No need to heat the pan. They're generally so thin they heat up quickly anyway. One thing to note is your loaf may need a few extra minutes in the oven; I find they don't cook quite as fast with something between the bread and the heat.

I've made the 'Deli Rye' variant from the book in a silicone loaf tin. It came out very well, but the shape was interesting - the soft sides allowed the loaf to bulge. In fact, it came out a similar shape to the way I usually do mine, which starts with a boule. I flatten it, fold one side in about a third of the way, then the other side to meet it, then in half along the seam produced by the other two folds. I'll try to remember to post pictures of this sometime; it's easier to do than describe. And I'll have to work out if I can manage my camera with floury fingers ...

Aember - good luck! You'll be fine. I have several colleages and even my son making this recipe happily. I find it's very forgiving.

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#12 Jmahl

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Posted 04 March 2010 - 06:38 PM


This is a recent loaf baked in a loaf pan. Nothing different then placing the dough in the pan after spraying with pan spray and putting some rolled oatmeal in the pan. So instead of getting a round flat loaf you get a long high loaf.

Bread loaf 002.JPG


I'm exited to try this, may I ask if you pre-heated the pan? (Lovely loaf!)



Did not preheat - just an old dark sheet metal loaf pan right in on the stone. After 40 minutes checked the temp. for 200 degrees. Hope this helps. Jmahl
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#13 Aember

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Posted 04 March 2010 - 07:22 PM

Oh yes, I forgot to mention that I also added 2 TBSP vital wheat gluten to the mix. I'm hoping that makes my rise time shorter for this 25% whole wheat loaf. I'm rising a small boule right now straight from the fridge, hoping I only have to go the 40-45 min. :smile:

I figured out why my rise took so long. I forgot to heat the water. In fact, it was fairly cold. DUH!

#14 Aember

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Posted 04 March 2010 - 08:46 PM

Hey, anyone bake in a convection oven? How do you adjust your temp & baking time?

#15 hsm

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Posted 04 March 2010 - 11:07 PM

No need to heat the pan. They're generally so thin they heat up quickly anyway. One thing to note is your loaf may need a few extra minutes in the oven; I find they don't cook quite as fast with something between the bread and the heat.

Did not preheat - just an old dark sheet metal loaf pan right in on the stone. After 40 minutes checked the temp. for 200 degrees.


Thanks, it turned out great. I had about a 1/3ish pound of ABin5 bread dough left, so baked it in a mini dark metal loaf pan for about 30 minutes (got to 200 degrees). The crust was beautifully, deeply golden all the way around. Photo next time.

#16 Aember

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Posted 05 March 2010 - 04:25 AM

OK, went for 60 min rise, baked on cast iron pan in 450F. I transferred the loaf risen on parchment to it. Forgot to slash it. After 30 min, a beautiful brown crust, not too thick, rose about 60%. Let cool overnight on the counter & this morning sliced into it. Crumb is perfect, moisture is perfect, taste is a bit sour-doughey. Success! thanks! :biggrin:

#17 lesliec

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Posted 05 March 2010 - 10:11 PM

A few posts back I promised to upload photos of how I generally shape my loaves. Well, Saturday = bread day!

1. This batch has been in the fridge for a week, maybe a day or two more
Bread 1.jpg

2. Out of the tub, ready for shaping
Bread 2.jpg

3. Boule made - follow the instructions in the book
Bread 3.jpg

4. Flip it onto its back (like a playful kitten ...)
Bread 4.jpg

5. Flatten the ball, with your fingers or the edge of your hand. More flour may be needed to avoid sticky situations
Bread 5.jpg

6. You should end up with a roughly rectangular shape, maybe 2cm or an inch thick
Bread 6.jpg

7. Fold one edge inwards about a third
Bread 7.jpg

8. Fold the other edge to meet the first fold
Bread 8.jpg

9. Fold the whole thing in half along the join of the first two folds
Bread 9.jpg

10. Roll so the fold is downwards and you're ready to go. Now let the dough sit for half an hour or so; get the oven heating at some point
Bread 10.jpg

11. Floured, slashed and ready for the oven
Bread 11.jpg

12. Incidentally, this is the best type if knife I've found for slashing this wet dough. Mine's a Wusthof; there will be others with the same cutting surface
Bread 12.jpg

13. After 10 minutes in the oven (230°C)- we have liftoff!
Bread 13.jpg

14. Now, isn't that a pretty thing?
Bread 14.jpg

15. And inside (ignore the orange and lemon; they just happened to be on the cutting board and have nothing to do with this topic)
Bread 15.jpg

This is just the basic recipe, but I use the same technique for Deli Rye. The whole wheat one is a bit wet; it needs a loaf tin.

I really like this bread ...


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#18 lesliec

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Posted 06 March 2010 - 03:51 PM

Apologies; I should have credited my inspiration for the shaping technique above.

He's Richard Bertinet, a French baker now resident in Bath, where he runs a cooking school. His two books, Dough and Crust, were my absolute favourite bread books before I discovered the 5-minute technique. They're still very worthwhile - pains au raisin made from croissant dough, anyone?

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#19 Jmahl

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Posted 06 March 2010 - 06:36 PM

Lesliec:

congrad. Love the pics. and the Arrows. Great baking.

Jmahl
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#20 Aember

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Posted 15 March 2010 - 07:23 PM

Have made 2 pizzas with jmahl's dough recipe (+ 2 TBSP gluten flour) after about 10 days in the fridge. They are the BEST pizza crusts I've ever made. Exactly what I was looking for! Very close to a NY pizza crust once I got the hang of rolling it out to about 1/8-1/4" thickness. I roll it out after 30-40 min rise, top it, then bake straight away. The whole thing from rise to baking happens on a square of parchment.
Different toppings, but I like roasted veggies, mozzarella, olive oil, coarse salt & pepper best. Maybe a few herbs. The crust bubbles beautifully, not too much, nice chewy sort of texture, lots of flavor. WOW. I am floored. :wub:

[Aside-I got a cast iron pizza stone & it's phenomenal. I bake the most wonderful cream biscuits on it. I just leave the thing in the bottom of the stove all the time oiled. Seems to stabilize the temp in the oven & I don't have to heat as high when baking directly on it. How'd I live without one??? :wub: :wub: :wub: ]

Edited by Aember, 15 March 2010 - 07:24 PM.


#21 Aember

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Posted 15 March 2010 - 07:26 PM

What a perfectly gorgeous loaf! I'll try your technique. Thinking jmahl's part whole wheat recipe + 2-3 TBSP gluten flour won't need a loaf pan, but then, it's such a cool excuse to find a new loaf pan, don't you think? :smile:

Edited by Aember, 15 March 2010 - 07:27 PM.


#22 Aloha Steve

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Posted 19 March 2010 - 10:36 AM

basic recipe

750 gms water
12 gms salt
20 gms yeast
1000gms flour

for additional flavor, i add
20 gms malt powder
20 gms semolina flour
2-4 hour room temp rise
into the fridge, use for up to 2 weeks.

i allow 2 hour rise time when using refrigerated dough
bake at 450 degrees
add 1 cup of water to a broiler pan in the bottom of the pre-heated oven just when you place the bread in the oven

see my pictoral tutorial on page 17? or therabouts.

Hey Doc, after reading about everyone's fantastic results, I decided to mix up a batch and see if I could follow.

I wonder if I made a mistake ? The dough almost tripled, 3 hrs, before putting in fridge 14 hours ago, just checked and its now only doubled, the original volume.
Too much mixing together in the proof container ?
I used my favorite wooden spoon, which I also use to mix Crystal Light fruit punch, some of the red stuff got into the mix, my bad really, for not thinking thru, that stuff is nothing but chemicals. However, it only a left trace amount a few red streaks on the top of dough.
Lastly, I tweaked the recipe from 20 gms semoilna to 100 and lowered AP to 700.
Other than that, a gram here or there of the other ingredients, and it is the same formula as above.
[size="1"] edited for grammar & spelling. I do it 95% of my posts so I'll state it here. :)[/size]

[size="3"]"I have never developed indigestion from eating my words."-- Winston Churchill[/size]
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#23 Chris Hennes

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Posted 19 March 2010 - 11:02 AM

Did you bake off a loaf and have problems, or are you just commenting on the volume of the dough?

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#24 Aloha Steve

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Posted 19 March 2010 - 11:26 AM

Did you bake off a loaf and have problems, or are you just commenting on the volume of the dough?

Just commenting on the volume of the dough. I thought I'd give it a few more days to ferment and flavor up.
[size="1"] edited for grammar & spelling. I do it 95% of my posts so I'll state it here. :)[/size]

[size="3"]"I have never developed indigestion from eating my words."-- Winston Churchill[/size]
[size="4"]Talk doesn't cook rice. ~ Chinese Proverb[/size]

#25 Chris Hennes

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Posted 19 March 2010 - 11:29 AM

I wouldn't worry too much about the volume at this point, though in the future probably don't let it triple in the initial rise (I usually only let mine double before refrigerating).

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#26 Aloha Steve

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Posted 19 March 2010 - 11:35 AM

I wouldn't worry too much about the volume at this point, though in the future probably don't let it triple in the initial rise (I usually only let mine double before refrigerating).

Got it thanks Chris.
[size="1"] edited for grammar & spelling. I do it 95% of my posts so I'll state it here. :)[/size]

[size="3"]"I have never developed indigestion from eating my words."-- Winston Churchill[/size]
[size="4"]Talk doesn't cook rice. ~ Chinese Proverb[/size]

#27 Zoe Francois

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Posted 19 March 2010 - 03:43 PM

Hi Lesliec,

What a stunning loaf and I love the tutorial! I use this technique for the baguette and epi, but may just add the extra steps for all of my loaves. So glad you are enjoying the method and all the bread you bake.

What is the protein of the flour you are using?

Thanks, Zoë François

#28 lesliec

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Posted 21 March 2010 - 04:38 PM

Hi Zoe.

I can't be absolutely certain since I use a supermarket brand, but most of New Zealand's flour comes from one mill, so I suspect the protein is somewhere around 10% (based on the equivalent from the 'non-supermarket' brand, which says it's 10.3%). It's called 'high grade' here and is recommended for bread, pastry and cakes.

Many thanks for creating the book. I've lost count of the people I've introduced to it, and I claim responsibility for at least three sales! When I get some thinking/experimentation time I'd like to use the method for a spicy fruit loaf (or maybe hot cross buns, it being that time of year). Any suggestions?

Thanks,

Leslie

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#29 Zoe Francois

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Posted 22 March 2010 - 07:34 AM

Hi Leslie,

Thank you! I am always curious what the differences in the flour is around the world. Some day I will get to NZ to bake.

Here is a post I did about Hot Cross Buns: http://www.artisanbr...five.com/?p=571

Enjoy, Zoe

#30 Heartsurgeon

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Posted 22 March 2010 - 01:20 PM

"I wonder if I made a mistake ? The dough almost tripled, 3 hrs, before putting in fridge 14 hours ago, just checked and its now only doubled, the original volume."

I think your going to be fine.
I start with cold water and stick the dough in the fridge imediately. The dough will about triple in 24-48 hours, then it will come down in size to about double or less, as time goes on.

If you used warm water, or left the dough out at room temp for several hours, it will rise right to the top of the container i use (see the pictorial). It then will settle in the fridge.