Jump to content


Welcome to the eG Forums!

These forums are a service of the Society for Culinary Arts & Letters, a 501c3 nonprofit organization dedicated to advancement of the culinary arts. Anyone can read the forums, however if you would like to participate in active discussions please join the Society.

Photo

Stomping Through the "Savoy" (2007–2008)


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
550 replies to this topic

#31 Paul Stanley

Paul Stanley
  • participating member
  • 80 posts
  • Location:London, UK

Posted 04 December 2007 - 04:41 PM

To my shame I watched a TV show about Buckingham Palace yesterday. To my greater shame I rather enjoyed it ...

It seems the Queen's preferred drink is something along these lines. She has 1/3 gin (Plymouth), 2/3 dubonnet, slice of lemon, 2 perfectly square ice cubes.

#32 eje

eje
  • eGullet Society staff emeritus
  • 4,359 posts
  • Location:San Francisco, CA

Posted 05 December 2007 - 12:11 PM

re: Queen & Dubonnet. Paul, I do remember reading that somewhere. I believe in Eric Felten's "How's Your Drink". He has a section about Dubonnet and the history that resulted in Heaven Hill owning the US rights to the brand.

Posted Image

Duchess Cocktail

1/3 French Vermouth. (3/4 oz Noilly Prat Dry)
1/3 Italian Vermouth. (3/4 oz Cinzano Rosso)
1/3 Absinthe. (3/4 oz Marteau Verte Classic)

Shake well and strain into cocktail glass.

Not the most wildly appealing looking cocktail. The combination of the louched Absinthe and Italian Vermouth gives it a murky brown tan color. Kind of like tea with milk in it.

Fairly tasty, however, if you enjoy Absinthe.
---
Erik Ellestad
If the ocean was whiskey and I was a duck...
Bernal Heights, SF, CA

#33 eje

eje
  • eGullet Society staff emeritus
  • 4,359 posts
  • Location:San Francisco, CA

Posted 07 December 2007 - 10:07 AM

Posted Image

Duke of Marlborough Cocktail

1/2 Sherry. (Fino)
1/2 Italian Vermouth. (1 1/2 oz Punt e Mes)
3 Dashes Orange Bitters. (Dash or two of Fee's, Dash or two of Regan's)

Stir well and twist orange peel on top.

Cheating slightly here by using Punt e Mes instead of regular Sweet Vermouth and as always making the vermouth cocktails on cracked ice instead of up.

I guess the question is, which of the 10 (at the time) Dukes of Marlborough this was named after. It appears likely that they were a Spencer, Churchill, or Spencer-Churchill. The seventh, John Winston Spencer-Churchill, 1822–1883, was the paternal Grandfather of Sir Winston Churchill.

With Punt e Mes, this is quite tasty. Almost Americano-like. Still, I wouldn't blame you if you chose to add an ounce or so of Gin. I have no doubt that Sir Winston would. Though, now that I think about it, he might just glance at the bottles of Sherry and Vermouth, shrug, and pour himself a big glass of plain gin.

Edited by eje, 07 December 2007 - 08:34 PM.

---
Erik Ellestad
If the ocean was whiskey and I was a duck...
Bernal Heights, SF, CA

#34 eje

eje
  • eGullet Society staff emeritus
  • 4,359 posts
  • Location:San Francisco, CA

Posted 09 December 2007 - 07:49 AM

Posted Image

Dunhill’s Special Cocktail
(6 People)

In a shaker filled with cracked Ice place a spoonful of Curacao (Dash Brizard Orange Curacao), 2 glasses of Gin (1 oz Beefeater Gin), 2 glasses of Sherry (1 oz Fino Sherry), 2 glasses of French Vermouth (1 oz Dolin Vermouth). Stir thoroughly with a spoon, shake, strain, and serve. Add an olive (uh, oops!) and 2 dashes of Absinthe (Verte de Fougerolles) to each glass.

As usual downsizing this to a single (slightly large) portion.

Aside from the puzzling directive to, "stir...shake, strain and serve," this cocktail's ingredients intrigued me. And indeed, served to illustrate another side to Absinthe's flavors.

In this case, the combination highlighted the savory aspects of the ingredients, almost to the point where it tasted like an Aquavit cocktail instead of a Gin cocktail. I'd definitely swear there was some caraway in there somehow.

A very nice dry cocktail, that I could imagine going well with food of some sort.
---
Erik Ellestad
If the ocean was whiskey and I was a duck...
Bernal Heights, SF, CA

#35 eje

eje
  • eGullet Society staff emeritus
  • 4,359 posts
  • Location:San Francisco, CA

Posted 10 December 2007 - 03:25 PM

Posted Image

Dunlop Cocktail

1 Dash Angostura Bitters.
1/3 Sherry. (3/4 oz Don Nuno Dry Oloroso Sherry)
2/3 Rum. (1 1/2 oz Diplomatico Rum)

Stir well and strain into cocktail glass. (Squeeze lemon peel over glass - eje)

Pretty wide open drink here on the ingredient front. At least it specifies which type of bitters!

I started by picking the sherry, and then headed down to the garage to investigate the smells of the various rums I have stored down there. I was thinking dark and dry in combination with the Sherry, and the Diplomatico stuck out as an interesting combination.

Ended up quite tasty, but really needed the added aromatic zip of the peel to bring the drink to life.
---
Erik Ellestad
If the ocean was whiskey and I was a duck...
Bernal Heights, SF, CA

#36 thirtyoneknots

thirtyoneknots
  • participating member
  • 1,968 posts
  • Location:Texas

Posted 11 December 2007 - 01:29 AM

I'm not familiar with Diplomatico, what type of rum is it?
Andy Arrington

Journeyman Drinksmith

Twitter--@LoneStarBarman

#37 evo-lution

evo-lution
  • participating member
  • 437 posts

Posted 11 December 2007 - 06:31 AM

I'm not familiar with Diplomatico, what type of rum is it?

View Post


See here - http://www.ministryo...tails.php?r=613
Evo-lution - Consultancy, Training and Events

Dr. Adam Elmegirab's Bitters - Bitters

The Jerry Thomas Project - Tipplings and musings

#38 eje

eje
  • eGullet Society staff emeritus
  • 4,359 posts
  • Location:San Francisco, CA

Posted 11 December 2007 - 11:32 AM

I'm not familiar with Diplomatico, what type of rum is it?

View Post

Yup, it's a Venezuelan, Molasses based, medium dark rum.

Quite nice and not dissimilar from the also very good Santa Teresa.
---
Erik Ellestad
If the ocean was whiskey and I was a duck...
Bernal Heights, SF, CA

#39 thirtyoneknots

thirtyoneknots
  • participating member
  • 1,968 posts
  • Location:Texas

Posted 11 December 2007 - 02:01 PM

Thanks for the info, I now recognize the label from the liquor store, might have to check it out.
Andy Arrington

Journeyman Drinksmith

Twitter--@LoneStarBarman

#40 eje

eje
  • eGullet Society staff emeritus
  • 4,359 posts
  • Location:San Francisco, CA

Posted 11 December 2007 - 02:27 PM

Posted Image

Duppy Cocktail

Pour 4 1/2 glasses of Whisky (2 oz Asyla Scotch) into a large glass and soak in this a few cloves (for an hour or two - eje). Add 5 or 6 drops of Orange Bitters (Healthy Dash Regan's, Healthy Dash Fee's), and lastly put in 1 1/2 glasses of Curacao (3/4 oz Brizard Curacao). Place the lot in the shaker; shake (stir, strain - eje) and serve.

This is a cocktail that got a lot more interesting as it warmed. Chilled, it just tasted pretty much like cold Scotch. As it warmed, the clove and other spices of the orange bitters expressed themselves more fully.

Duppy, from what I can tell, in Jamaican folklore refers to, "restless spirits of the dead that are believed to haunt the living."

Not sure what Jamaican ghosts have to do with Scotch, cloves, bitters, and curacao. I noticed no otherworldly effects resulting from consuming the cocktail. Perhaps it helps to get rid of them?
---
Erik Ellestad
If the ocean was whiskey and I was a duck...
Bernal Heights, SF, CA

#41 Chris Amirault

Chris Amirault
  • eGullet Society staff emeritus
  • 19,626 posts
  • Location:Rhode Island

Posted 11 December 2007 - 04:42 PM

That sounds a bit like the Bairn, a go-to cockail at my house, though with a bit of clove. Seems a bit fetishistic, given the presence of bitters with, I assume, clove in it -- not that there's anything wrong with that, of course.

Speaking of bitters:

Add 5 or 6 drops of Orange Bitters (Healthy Dash Regan's, Healthy Dash Fee's)[.]

View Post


Having just combined about 4 oz of Regan's with 4 oz of Fee's to free up a bottle for John Deragon's grapefruit bitters, I think that this approach benefits both, giving a bit of nose from Fee's to Regan's and a bit of body from Regan's to Fee's.
Chris Amirault
camirault@eGstaff.org
eG Ethics Signatory
Sir Luscious got gator belts and patty melts

#42 eje

eje
  • eGullet Society staff emeritus
  • 4,359 posts
  • Location:San Francisco, CA

Posted 11 December 2007 - 08:27 PM

[...]
Having just combined about 4 oz of Regan's with 4 oz of Fee's to free up a bottle for John Deragon's grapefruit bitters, I think that this approach benefits both, giving a bit of nose from Fee's to Regan's and a bit of body from Regan's to Fee's.

View Post

To give credit where credit is due, Mr. David Wondrich first turned me on to the idea that combining the two orange bitters gave results superior to using either singly.

It's not as obvious in this cocktail, as there are more flavors going on from the spirit, but it makes a big difference in a Dry Martini.
---
Erik Ellestad
If the ocean was whiskey and I was a duck...
Bernal Heights, SF, CA

#43 eje

eje
  • eGullet Society staff emeritus
  • 4,359 posts
  • Location:San Francisco, CA

Posted 12 December 2007 - 12:05 PM

This is the Fourth in an ongoing series of bartender features in the Savoy Topic.

Previously, I had experimented by asking the bartender at Montgomery Place to make me a Bombay Cocktail No. 2, but this just seemed to result in a grumpy bartender.

To make it less of a shock, I thought I would contact some local bartenders and give them a choice of the dozen or so Savoy Cocktails that might be coming up in the book.

Surprisingly, some actually were game.

---

Posted Image

Continuing with the of out of town bars, I traveled to Lincoln and Sherman in Alameda, CA to meet up with Martin Cate at the bar he co-owns there, Forbidden Island.

Posted Image

Now, it's true that the Tiki phenomenon really didn't take off in the US until after World War II, but, a lot of the philosophies Martin takes with the bar fit in with Pre-prohibition ideas of bartending. Home made ingredients, (Falernum, Arrack Punch, etc.) fresh juice rather than mix, really hard working bartenders. In fact, should you feel like a sidecar or Martini, you can be sure it will be made with the same care the bartenders put into their exotic, complicated tiki creations.

Posted Image

Posted Image

This Tiki guards the door...

Posted Image

And Martin Cate guards the bar.

Martin Cate is co-owner, designer, and chief mixologist of Forbidden Island Tiki Lounge in Alameda, CA, the first new tiki bar in America to be dedicated to recreating vintage exotic cocktails with authentic ingredients, premium spirits, and fresh squeezed juices.  Martin and his original cocktails have been featured in San Francisco Magazine, Imbibe, Sunset, Food & Wine, the San Francisco Chronicle, USA Today, the Today Show, and more.  Martin trained as a bartender at Trader Vic’s flagship San Francisco location and is a member of the United States Bartenders Guild.  He is also a passionate rum collector, bar consultant, and columnist for the Difford’s Guide.


First off, I have to apologize for the quality of photos here. Tiki bars are very dark and I should have brought along an auxiliary light. As Martin explained to me, the philosophy of the bar is all about escape. Pretending you are on a tropical island, not just on the way home from work, you don't want to see the laundromat or nail salon across the street.

Posted Image

Also, I don't know what it is about the Regan's Orange Bitters, but it seems like every time Gary Regan's face is in the frame the camera chooses to focus on him instead of the cocktail. Must be his magnetic personality, even just in picture!

Posted Image

East Indian Cocktail

Equal parts of French Vermouth (Noilly Prat) and Sherry, with a dash of (Regan's) Orange Bitters.

Shake well and strain into cocktail glass.

Not much to say here, we tried this other than it tastes like Sherry and dry vermouth. A nice aperitif cocktail, would probably go well with food. We tried it with an Osborne Fino and a Manzanilla. We both preferred the Fino.

Posted Image

Eclipse Cocktail

1/3 Dry Gin. (Plymouth)
2/3 Sloe Gin. (Plymouth Sloe Gin)

Put enough Grenadine (Forbidden Island Home Made) in a cocktail glass to cover a ripe olive. Mix the spirits together and pour gently on to the grenadine so that it does not mix. Squeeze orange peel on top.

An interesting experiment in physics and very difficult to get a photo of especially in a dark bar. The olive floats to the top of the grenadine and hangs at the intersection between it and the mixture of sloe and dry gin.

Martin was good enough to bring in his personal stash of Plymouth Sloe Gin for me to try and I brought along the bottle of Lindisfarne Sloe Gin I scored the last time we were in England. The Lindisfarne is much more tart and bitter than the mellower Plymouth.

I was surprised that the Sloe Gin really does provide enough tartness to make this a pretty interesting combination. Martin's comment was, "there's a good cocktail in this somewhere." The olive, though, is a bit odd. Some comparison between the floating olive and a finger came up. Maybe a good Halloween cocktail?

Posted Image

Eddie Brown Cocktail

2 Dashes Apricot Brandy. (De Kuyper)
1/3 Glass Kina Lillet. (Lillet Blanc)
2/3 Glass Dry Gin. (Plymouth)

Shake well and strain into cocktail glass. Squeeze lemon peel on top.

This Martini variation proved to be the most popular cocktail of the evening with much of the staff. It is a fine sophisticated cocktail.

East India Cocktail

1/8 Pineapple Juice.
1/8 Orange Curacao. (DeKuyper)
1 Dash Angostura Bitters.
3/4 Brandy. (Missed the brand)

Stir well and strain into cocktail glass.

This isn't an unpleasant cocktail, but it didn't it really stand out. Missed its photo op, unfortunately.

Posted Image

Eagle's Dream Cocktail

1 Teaspoonful of Powdered Sugar.
The white of 1 Egg.
The Juice of 1/4 Lemon.
1/4 Crème Yvette. (Hermes Violet Liqueur)
3/4 Dry Gin. (Plymouth)

Shake well and strain into medium size glass.

My friends Anita and Cameron over at Married...With Dinner were kind enough to loan me their bottle of Hermes Violet Liqueur for this cocktail. The Rothman and Winter Violette is a little too austere to be an appropriate substitute for Creme Yvette.

Also, interesting to taste just how different the Hermes and R&W violet liqueurs are. The R&W is clearly all about the violet and the Hermes has quite a few adjunct flavors. Some citrus, maybe vanilla.

Martin's comment was, "This tastes like Brunch." I felt like it tasted like brunch for blue haired grandmothers. The first few sips are good, but it's a little much for me after that.

At about this point, I began to realize that instead of choosing a couple of cocktails out of a dozen, Martin had decided to plow through all 12 (well, 11, we didn't have an appropriate substitute for "Prunelle".) Well, goddamn, that helps me get some speed on this thing!

Posted Image

In an evening of special treats, this treat was the real stand out. Martin convinced Lance Winters of St. George/Hangar One to part with a small sample of his soon to be released Absinthe for us to taste. I was impressed with how well distilled this product was. Very smooth and easy to drink. He's using a good portion of star anise instead of simply going with green anise, giving it a bit more of a bite and a modern flavor profile. He's also got some unusual herbs in there that stand out in the aroma and early flavors. Still, all in all, a very solid Absinthe.

Very cool that the first legally distilled American Absinthe since the ban is a good one.

Posted Image


The Earthquake Cocktail

1/3 Gin. (Plymouth Gin)
1/3 Whisky. (Cutty Sark Scotch)
1/3 Absinthe. (St. George Absinthe)

Shake well and serve in cocktail glass.

Note: So Called because if there should happen to be an earthquake when you are drinking it, it won't matter.  This is a cocktail whose potency is not to be taken too lightly or for that matter, too frequently!


Mostly because it is just not a very good cocktail. Having made the Bunny Hug, I knew what to expect. Maybe there is some magical combination of particular brands of Gin, Whisky, and Absinthe where this doesn't just taste like a big glass of booze, and maybe there are some folks who enjoy it. Mostly I felt a bit sad to be using a fine Absinthe in this cocktail which seems like nothing more than something to get you as drunk as possible as quick as possible. About the only thing I could think of to speed the path of the alcohol to your cortex would be to top it up with Champagne.

East and West Cocktail

1 Dash Lemon Juice.
1/4 Bacardi Rum. (Cruzan White)
3/4 East India Punch. (Forbidden Island house made Arrack Punch)

Shake well and strain into cocktail glass.

Note: Created to mark the arrival in London of a Ruling Indian Prince.


Cocktaildb indicates that the now defunct East India Punch was likely, "Likely to have been a brand or other descriptive designation for a Swedish Punsch-style liqueur."

I brought my Swedish punch, but Martin has been making an Arrack Punch in house with lemon, cardamom, and sugar, so we used that instead. Whoa! Nice stuff, but that Arrack goes straight to your head.

Amusingly, even though Martin digs it, the Batavia Arrack has not been overly popular with some of the staff. I forget the exact words they used to describe its flavor, but they were not very complimentary. However, we did get a few grudging, "that's not bad," and, "pretty good," comments for this cocktail and they seemed to come back and try it again after the initial taste. Unfortunately, I also missed getting a photo of this one. To me, one of the more enjoyable cocktails of the evening.

Posted Image


Elk's Own Cocktail

The White of 1 Egg.
1/2 Canadian Club Whisky.
1/2 Port Wine. (Ruby Port)
The Juice of 1/2 Lemon.
1 Teaspoonful Sugar.

Shake well, strain into wineglass and add a slice of pineapple.

I kind of liked this one, though some felt it tasted a bit like "watered down wine." Certainly, there are not many modern cocktails with a similar flavor profile.

Posted Image

Elixir Cocktail

1/2 Kola Tonic. (Rose's Cola Tonic)
1/2 Calvados. (Calvados Cardinal)

Shake well and strain into cocktail glass.

This was surprisingly tasty. The funk of the Calvados and the flavor of the Kola Tonic combined nicely. Not going to win any modern cocktail contests, but quite an interesting combination of flavors.

Posted Image

Empire Cocktail

1/4 Apricot Brandy. (DeKuyper)
1/4 Calvados. (Calvados Cardinal)
1/2 Gin. (Plymouth Gin)

Shake well and strain into cocktail glass.

Pleasant, light, and not too sweet, this was good, but didn't win any popularity contests.

Posted Image

E. Nos Cocktail

1/3 French Vermouth. (Noilly Prat Dry)
2/3 Nicholson's Gin. (Anchor Junipero and dash of simple)
3 Dashes of Absinthe. (St. George Spirits Absinthe)

Shake well and strain into cocktail glass.

From what I can tell, Nicholson's Lamplighter was an Old-Tom style gin, so I asked Martin to use the Anchor Junipero (he was doubtful) with a dash of simple. I really liked this cocktail, the touch of sweetness really brings the Gin and Absinthe to life. Probably, my favorite of the evening. I love the slightly translucent hint of the Absinthe louching out its oils.

Posted Image

The line up of dead soldiers and Mr. Cate's original cocktail:

The Dead Reckoning

2 oz Cockspur 12 year rum
.5 oz Navan Vanilla Liqueur
.5 oz pure maple syrup
.5 oz tawny port
1 oz fresh lemon juice
1 oz pineapple juice
dash angostura bitters

shake/strain into a hiball glass over fresh ice and top with 1 oz soda water.  Garnish with Pineapple wedge, mint spring, and lemon spiral.


Posted Image

As always, it's a lot of fun to taste these vintage cocktails with bartenders and see and hear their reactions. I had a great time, and was certainly treated with that famous generous Tiki hospitality. Not only that, but in a single evening, Martin helped managed to kill just about all of the "E" cocktails. Holy crap.

Interestingly, the next day my friend's Theremin Lounge band, Project Pimento, played a gig at Forbidden Island.

Late Saturday afternoon had been pretty quiet, with all of us in the bar having a chance to chat, bullshit, and try the Savoy cocktails.

Forbidden Island with Project Pimento playing was an entirely different matter.

The place was packed, standing room only with patrons lined up several deep at the bar. It was totally impressive to see the Forbidden Island machine going full tilt. Martin greeting guests, placing orders, and serving. The two bartenders at their stations making those incredibly complicated Tiki drinks non-stop. The other server carrying trays of huge drinks out to the tables and standing guests. I have to give a shout out to the bartenders Melanie and Lara, along with the server Stephanie. Not only were they incredibly personable and pleasant to talk to, but those girls kicked ass. Anyone who doesn't think bartenders work hard or that a bar can't do both quality and volume hasn't seen Forbidden Island in action.
---
Erik Ellestad
If the ocean was whiskey and I was a duck...
Bernal Heights, SF, CA

#44 Chris Amirault

Chris Amirault
  • eGullet Society staff emeritus
  • 19,626 posts
  • Location:Rhode Island

Posted 12 December 2007 - 12:17 PM

Eddie Brown Cocktail

2 Dashes Apricot Brandy. (De Kuyper)
1/3 Glass Kina Lillet. (Lillet Blanc)
2/3 Glass Dry Gin. (Plymouth)

Shake well and strain into cocktail glass. Squeeze lemon peel on top.

This Martini variation proved to be the most popular cocktail of the evening with much of the staff.  It is a fine sophisticated cocktail.

View Post

That looks like a cocktail that would benefit from johnder's grapefruit bitters, to provide a bit more "kina" to that Lillet. I'll do the research tonight and report back.

ETA: Benefit it did.

Edited by chrisamirault, 12 December 2007 - 07:23 PM.

Chris Amirault
camirault@eGstaff.org
eG Ethics Signatory
Sir Luscious got gator belts and patty melts

#45 eje

eje
  • eGullet Society staff emeritus
  • 4,359 posts
  • Location:San Francisco, CA

Posted 14 December 2007 - 12:23 PM

[...]
Duppy Cocktail
[...]

View Post

Oh, also in the "credit where credit is due" department, when googling "Duppy", I ran across this article on slakethirst regarding the Sunset Gun.

I dunno why the name got changed from "Duppy" to "Sunset Gun" but they do appear to be the same cocktail. Also, I agree with Slakethirst's assessment that this is very good with Scotch instead of American Whiskey. Though, perhaps, given the pedigree of the name, experimentation with interesting rums might be in order.
---
Erik Ellestad
If the ocean was whiskey and I was a duck...
Bernal Heights, SF, CA

#46 thirtyoneknots

thirtyoneknots
  • participating member
  • 1,968 posts
  • Location:Texas

Posted 14 December 2007 - 01:24 PM

Elk's Own Cocktail

The White of 1 Egg.
1/2 Canadian Club Whisky.
1/2 Port Wine. (Ruby Port)
The Juice of 1/2 Lemon.
1 Teaspoonful Sugar.

Shake well, strain into wineglass and add a slice of pineapple.

I kind of liked this one, though some felt it tasted a bit like "watered down wine."  Certainly, there are not many modern cocktails with a similar flavor profile.

View Post


Killer Cocktails lists an Elks Club Fizz as essentially this exact same drink with an egg white and an implicit top-off with soda (though it doesn't actually specify that soda should be added, it's just implied by the inclusion in the fizz chapter). Whats the connection of Rye whiskey and Port to the BPOE?

Edited by thirtyoneknots, 14 December 2007 - 01:24 PM.

Andy Arrington

Journeyman Drinksmith

Twitter--@LoneStarBarman

#47 eje

eje
  • eGullet Society staff emeritus
  • 4,359 posts
  • Location:San Francisco, CA

Posted 15 December 2007 - 11:50 AM

Posted Image

Eton Blazer Cocktail

The Juice of 1/2 Lemon.
1/2 Tablespoonful of Powdered Sugar. (1 teaspoon Caster Sugar)
1/4 Kirsch. (1/2 oz Kirsch)
3/4 Plymouth Gin. (1 1/2 oz Plymouth Gin)

Shake well and strain into long tumbler; fill up with sodawater.

Michael Jackson, in his "Bar and Cocktail Companion," says, "A metaphorical name, no doubt, since Eton College doesn't have a blazer. Nor is the college's color, black, evident in this drink. Not a blazer in the Blue sense."

A perfectly fine and enjoyable highball. I could have maybe been a bit more generous with the sugar. Thinking about it now, it might be more interesting to top it up with Kirsch, instead of shaking it with together the Gin, sugar and lemon. That way you would get the scent carried up on the bubbles as a kind of greeting when you first sip the cocktail.
---
Erik Ellestad
If the ocean was whiskey and I was a duck...
Bernal Heights, SF, CA

#48 thirtyoneknots

thirtyoneknots
  • participating member
  • 1,968 posts
  • Location:Texas

Posted 15 December 2007 - 02:13 PM

Thinking about it now, it might be more interesting to top it up with Kirsch, instead of shaking it with together the Gin, sugar and lemon.  That way you would get the scent carried up on the bubbles as a kind of greeting when you first sip the cocktail.

View Post



So a gin fizz with a Kirsch float? That sounds quite interesting.

Also making sure you aren't meaning you want to top off with Kirsch instead of soda :wink:
Andy Arrington

Journeyman Drinksmith

Twitter--@LoneStarBarman

#49 eje

eje
  • eGullet Society staff emeritus
  • 4,359 posts
  • Location:San Francisco, CA

Posted 15 December 2007 - 09:28 PM

Posted Image

Elk Cocktail

1/2 Prunelle Brandy. (1 1/2 oz mixture 1/2 Trimbach Kirsch, 1/2 Prune Syrup)
2 Dashes French Vermouth. (Dolin French Vermouth)
1/2 Dry Gin. (1 1/2 oz Beefeater Gin)

Shake well and strain into cocktail glass. (Garnish with a prune.)

So apparently, "Prunelle" is a difficult to find liqueur made from Prune Plums.

I decided I would approximate it by mixing prune syrup with eau-de-vie.

I thought of buying actual Prune brandy to mix with the Prune syrup, but figured might as well use the Kirsch I had instead. The oddest thing happened when I added the Kirsch to the Prune syrup. It gelatinized. I've no idea what is up with that.

The texture of the cocktail ended up really weird, with cold gin and vermouth floating between gelatinized globules of kirsch flavored prune syrup. The flavors were good, but the whole thing was a little bit of unintentional molecular mixology.

Does anyone have an explantion? I know prunes have a lot of soluble fiber. Is that what gelatinized when mixed with the kirsch?
---
Erik Ellestad
If the ocean was whiskey and I was a duck...
Bernal Heights, SF, CA

#50 slkinsey

slkinsey
  • eGullet Society staff emeritus
  • 11,109 posts
  • Location:New York, New York

Posted 16 December 2007 - 09:18 AM

Erik, are you sure it "gelatinized"? It sounds a bit more like "precipitated" to me. Or are you saying that the entire volume of prune syrup reacted with the alcohol, clumped up and refused to mix?

Anyway, I have seen some things precipitate when added to alcohol. Once I wanted to make an Old Fashioned with Red Hook rye (at around 136 proof) and gomme syrup instead of regular simple syrup. As soon as I added the booze to the glass, the gomme (which usually mixed in completely transparently) threw off a cloud of white particulates that never re-dissolved into the drink, even after the proof had been diluted significantly by the melting ice. This is similar to the louching that happens when water is added to absinthe, except that it's the water-soluble substances that precipitate when the proof is raised rather than the alcohol-soluble ones when the proof is lowered.

So... since prune juice is very high in soluble fiber, and considering that this generally means "water soluble" -- it's possible that the addition of high proof kirschwasser caused the soluble fiber to precipitate out of solution.

Edited by slkinsey, 16 December 2007 - 09:21 AM.

Samuel Lloyd Kinsey

#51 bostonapothecary

bostonapothecary
  • participating member
  • 1,265 posts
  • Location:have shaker will travel

Posted 16 December 2007 - 11:37 AM

Erik, are you sure it "gelatinized"?  It sounds a bit more like "precipitated" to me.  Or are you saying that the entire volume of prune syrup reacted with the alcohol, clumped up and refused to mix?

Anyway, I have seen some things precipitate when added to alcohol.  Once I wanted to make an Old Fashioned with Red Hook rye (at around 136 proof) and gomme syrup instead of regular simple syrup.  As soon as I added the booze to the glass, the gomme (which usually mixed in completely transparently) threw off a cloud of white particulates that never re-dissolved into the drink, even after the proof had been diluted significantly by the melting ice.  This is similar to the louching that happens when water is added to absinthe, except that it's the water-soluble substances that precipitate when the proof is raised rather than the alcohol-soluble ones when the proof is lowered.

So... since prune juice is very high in soluble fiber, and considering that this generally means "water soluble" -- it's possible that the addition of high proof kirschwasser caused the soluble fiber to precipitate out of solution.

View Post



i've seen other things "precipitate" as well and give off that "devil's water" effect... if it gelatinized you could probably double strain off particles and if it precipitated all would probably go through a very fine strainer....

otherwise the flavors of the cocktail seem really interesting. i've never used any prune syrup before.
abstract expressionist beverage compounder
creator of acquired tastes
bostonapothecary.com

#52 limewine

limewine
  • participating member
  • 73 posts
  • Location:seattle

Posted 17 December 2007 - 10:33 AM

So apparently, "Prunelle" is a difficult to find liqueur made from Prune Plums.

View Post

How is this different (or is it) from a damson gin?
Paul Clarke
Seattle

The Cocktail Chronicles

#53 slkinsey

slkinsey
  • eGullet Society staff emeritus
  • 11,109 posts
  • Location:New York, New York

Posted 17 December 2007 - 11:07 AM

i've seen other things "precipitate" as well and give off that "devil's water" effect... if it gelatinized you could probably double strain off particles and if it precipitated all would probably go through a very fine strainer....

In case it is not familiar to everyone, when something "precipitates" that means that it comes out of liquid solution into a solid form. Often, but not always, this is in the form of extremely fine particles. If these fine particles do not cohere into larger pieces then, as bostonapothecary says, the particles are usually too small to be effectively filtered out by passing the suspension through a fine strainer. Just looking at Erik's picture, it's not clear to me that a fine sieve would have had much effect. On the other hand, had he added the prune syrup to all the other ingredients combined, instead of first mixing it with kirschwasser (I believe Trimbach is around 90 proof?), it's possible that the percent alcohol wouldn't have been high enough to precipitate out the soluble fiber. Once it did precipitate out, however, there was no putting it back into solution.

So apparently, "Prunelle" is a difficult to find liqueur made from Prune Plums.

How is this different (or is it) from a damson gin?

Just to clarify this a bit... prunelle is the French word for the fruit of the Blackthorn shrub, a/k/a "sloes." The French word for "plum" is pruneau. The prunelle/sloe is not the same thing as a damson. A sloe is Prunus spinosa whereas a damson is a subspecies (insititia) of Prunus domestica, which is where most domestic eating plums are found.

So, I suppose the question is how prunelle is different from sloe gin rather than from damson gin. From what I have been able to read, I suppose that sloe gin might be the best substitution if one can find the real thing. It's not clear to me how these spirits differ, except that prunelle is a creme liqueur made with a neutral spirits base whereas sloe gin presumably has a gin base (although usually not) and perhaps other flavorings. Perhaps prunelle is made by a different process than sloe gin (e.g., without the pits)?

Edited by slkinsey, 17 December 2007 - 11:24 AM.

Samuel Lloyd Kinsey

#54 eje

eje
  • eGullet Society staff emeritus
  • 4,359 posts
  • Location:San Francisco, CA

Posted 18 December 2007 - 10:08 PM

Oh, hmmm!

I had been looking at the picture of the Stock Prunella liqueur on the cocktaildb and saw the prunes on the label and been assuming it was a prune liqueur.

I did not realize that it might be a sloe berry liqueur or I just would have used sloe gin and vermouth for the Elk Cocktail.

Maybe French Prunelle and Italian Prunella are slightly different, given one has prunes on the label and the other blackthorn sloes.

In any case, to be exact, I put an ounce of kirsch in a bowl and then mixed about the equivalent amount of syrup from bottled prunes into the kirsch.

I'm familiar with substances precipitating out of unfiltered spirits (or Absinthe) when they are chilled or diluted.

This really was more of a thickening type action which formed a gelatinous substance similar to a loose jello or starch thickened sauce. And no, it really did not want to then mix with the cold gin and vermouth, staying more or less in broken solid globs.
---
Erik Ellestad
If the ocean was whiskey and I was a duck...
Bernal Heights, SF, CA

#55 eje

eje
  • eGullet Society staff emeritus
  • 4,359 posts
  • Location:San Francisco, CA

Posted 18 December 2007 - 10:21 PM

Posted Image

“Everybody’s Irish” Cocktail

3 Dashes Green Mint. (1/2 tsp. Brizard Creme de Menthe)
6 Dashes Green Chartreuse. (1 tsp.)
Irish Whiskey. (2 oz Red Breast Irish Whiskey)

(Stir well with ice, strain into a cocktail glass and...) Add a Green olive.

Note: Created to mark, and now in great demand on, St. Patrick's Day. The green olive suspended in the liquid, looks like a gibbous moon.


It isn't quite as "green" as it should be. I don't have green Creme de Menthe so just used the plain white.

All in all, a tasty (and quite potent) cocktail.
---
Erik Ellestad
If the ocean was whiskey and I was a duck...
Bernal Heights, SF, CA

#56 eje

eje
  • eGullet Society staff emeritus
  • 4,359 posts
  • Location:San Francisco, CA

Posted 19 December 2007 - 12:10 AM

Posted Image

“Everything But” Cocktail

1/4 Whisky. (3/4 oz Compass Box blended Asyla Scotch Whisky)
1/4 Gin. (3/4 oz Plymouth Gin)
1/4 Lemon Juice. (3/4 oz Lemon Juice)
1/4 Orange Juice. (3/4 oz Fresh Orange Juice)
1 Egg.
1 Teaspoonful of Apricot brandy. (1 teaspoon Rothman & Winter Marillen Apricot Eau-de-Vie)
Powdered Sugar. (scant teaspoon caster sugar)

(Combine ingredients in shaker without ice and shake for 10 seconds. Add big ice...) Shake well and strain into cocktail glass.

Bunch of new technology here. First off, I finally scored a few 18oz cheater tins to top my 28 oz boston shakers. These are spiffy and seem nominally less messy when making egg drinks. Second we have the big sturdy tovolo ice cubes being employed instead of regular refrigerator ice. Third, I'm continuing my experiments with dry shaking. Fourth, given the size of this cocktail, I got to get out my bigger coupes.

Posted Image

Now, if the lovely texture of the egg in the first picture wasn't enough, this second one with a clear half inch of delicious foam should indicate progress is being made.

Regarding ingredients, many of the cocktails calling for simply "Whisky" in the "Savoy Cocktail Book" are from Judge Jr.'s 1927 "Here's How". In that book Scotch is specified. I went with the Apricot Eau-de-Vie instead of liqueur, as there was already plenty of sugar here, and I like Eau-de-Vies in egg cocktails.

I kind of thought I was getting tired of sour cocktails, but this one is quite tasty and fairly complex. "Velvety," would be a good word for it. I really enjoyed it.

Regarding the name, Judge Jr. sez, "This little drink is christened thusly because it contains everything but the kitchen stove!"
---
Erik Ellestad
If the ocean was whiskey and I was a duck...
Bernal Heights, SF, CA

#57 mkayahara

mkayahara
  • participating member
  • 1,851 posts
  • Location:Guelph, Ontario

Posted 19 December 2007 - 07:25 AM

Oh, hmmm!

I had been looking at the picture of the Stock Prunella liqueur on the cocktaildb and saw the prunes on the label and been assuming it was a prune liqueur.

I did not realize that it might be a sloe berry liqueur or I just would have used sloe gin and vermouth for the Elk Cocktail.

Maybe French Prunelle and Italian Prunella are slightly different, given one has prunes on the label and the other blackthorn sloes.

In any case, to be exact, I put an ounce of kirsch in a bowl and then mixed about the equivalent amount of syrup from bottled prunes into the kirsch. 

I'm familiar with substances precipitating out of unfiltered spirits (or Absinthe) when they are chilled or diluted. 

This really was more of a thickening type action which formed a gelatinous substance similar to a loose jello or starch thickened sauce.  And no, it really did not want to then mix with the cold gin and vermouth, staying more or less in broken solid globs.

View Post


Don't you test for pectin by putting fruit puree in alcohol? Could that have been the culprit?

In any case, all this talk of prunelle has me intrigued. I'm planning a liquor run across the border into Quebec in the next couple of weeks anyway, so I'll have to grab a bottle of the Vedrenne Prunelle they carry while I'm there. Then, in the interests of "science," I'll try the Elk Cocktail with the prunelle and my homemade damson gin.
Matthew Kayahara
Kayahara.ca
@mtkayahara

#58 slkinsey

slkinsey
  • eGullet Society staff emeritus
  • 11,109 posts
  • Location:New York, New York

Posted 19 December 2007 - 09:30 AM

Don't you test for pectin by putting fruit puree in alcohol? Could that have been the culprit?

I bet that's what it was. Pectin precipitates in alcohol. Prune juice (and presumably also prune syrup) is high in both pectin and water-soluble fiber.

Edited by slkinsey, 19 December 2007 - 09:31 AM.

Samuel Lloyd Kinsey

#59 eje

eje
  • eGullet Society staff emeritus
  • 4,359 posts
  • Location:San Francisco, CA

Posted 19 December 2007 - 11:26 AM

Interesting!

So prune syrup or other high pectin substances could be used as a natural (and vegetarian!) gelling agent for jellied or layered cocktails?

Beats the heck out of cabbage slime (xanthan gum) or cow hooves!

Further experimentation is obviously required!

Edited by eje, 19 December 2007 - 11:26 AM.

---
Erik Ellestad
If the ocean was whiskey and I was a duck...
Bernal Heights, SF, CA

#60 eje

eje
  • eGullet Society staff emeritus
  • 4,359 posts
  • Location:San Francisco, CA

Posted 19 December 2007 - 10:06 PM

Hey! We made pretty good time on the "D" Cocktails, from Daiquiri through Duppy.

The first highlight is the plain old Daiquiri Cocktail. Damn that's a nice cocktail when made with fresh lime and a decent rum.
The handsome Darb Cocktail was another early favorite, with its combination of Dry Vermouth, Gin, Lemon, and Apricot Brandy.
The Deuville Cocktail was a sidecar which mixed apple brandy and grape brandy.
The Deep Sea Cocktail is a delightful Fifty-Fifty variation, including a dash of absinthe and orange bitters.
Along the lines of the Deuville we also encounter the Depth Charge Brandy Cocktail, which includes grenadine as a sweetener instead of Cointreau.
I met up with Josey Packard at Alembic Bar and we enjoyed Devonias, Diki Dikis and her creation the Northern Spy.
The Dinah Cocktail was a nice whiskey break from the usual brandy and gin folderol.
We got to try a Dixie Cocktail, with Gwydion Stone's spanking new Marteau Verte Absinthe.
Then we travelled to Flora in Oakland, where Erik Adkins mixed Doctor Cocktails, Dolly O'Dares and his creation "Carter Beats the Devil."
Somehow the Dry Martini Cocktail snuck away from the rest of the Martinis, allowing us to enjoy it's delicious splendor a bit early in the alphabet.
The Dunhill's Special Cocktail, with it's combination of Sherry, Dry Vermouth, and Gin, proved a sophisticated tipple.
Lastly, the puzzlingly named Duppy Cocktail was a pleasant surprise, given the paucity of decent cocktails based on Scotch Whisky.

As always, I hope you're enjoying the ride as much as I am, and continue to stick around for the rest of the alphabet!

Cheers!
---
Erik Ellestad
If the ocean was whiskey and I was a duck...
Bernal Heights, SF, CA