Jump to content


Welcome to the eG Forums!

These forums are a service of the Society for Culinary Arts & Letters, a 501c3 nonprofit organization dedicated to advancement of the culinary arts. Anyone can read the forums, however if you would like to participate in active discussions please join the Society.

Photo

Sous vide short ribs, times and temperatures

Modernist

  • Please log in to reply
20 replies to this topic

#1 torolover

torolover
  • society donor
  • 55 posts

Posted 16 February 2013 - 02:19 PM

Anyone have a good time and temperature for Sous Vide short ribs that are meltingly tender, (no knife needed) but still moist?

134 or 140F at 72 hours is good, but more like a steak, (not falling apart).

Modernist Cuisine suggests 149F at 24 hours, but it was still very tough.

I tried 191F at 7 hours, but still not meltingly tender, and dry.

Anyone have some good experiences?

Edited by torolover, 16 February 2013 - 02:20 PM.


#2 FeChef

FeChef
  • participating member
  • 398 posts

Posted 16 February 2013 - 03:04 PM

I would like to know aswell. I have tried short ribs at 132F for 48 hours and came out like saw dust. One thing i noticed is that the short ribs ive seen cooked sv on the internet seem thick, but all i can find in my local grocery are 1" thick and to me thats a bit thin and may be why they keep comming out like saw dust.

#3 scubadoo97

scubadoo97
  • participating member
  • 1,966 posts
  • Location:Dunedin, Florida

Posted 16 February 2013 - 05:06 PM

I did boneless short ribs 56C/65 hr. They were pink and tender

Posted Image

Edited by scubadoo97, 16 February 2013 - 05:07 PM.


#4 FeChef

FeChef
  • participating member
  • 398 posts

Posted 16 February 2013 - 05:29 PM

scuba, those look good. How thick were they?

#5 torolover

torolover
  • society donor
  • 55 posts

Posted 16 February 2013 - 07:46 PM

Thanks Scuba, but in my original post I've tried 134F at 48 and 72 hours. It is great, but more like a steak, and not falling apart tender.

I'm looking more for a traditional braised short ribs, but still moist, and not dry. Anyone have suggestions for time and temp for a traditional braised short rib, but keeping it moist?

#6 nickrey

nickrey
  • society donor
  • 2,158 posts
  • Location:Sydney, Australia

Posted 16 February 2013 - 09:43 PM

Try 60C (140F) for 48 hours. This is the temperature and time that David Chang presents in the Momofuku cookbook. Anything over 150F will result in greater loss of moisture.

Nick Reynolds, aka "nickrey"

"My doctor told me to stop having intimate dinners for four.
Unless there are three other people." Orson Welles
My eG Foodblog


#7 pbear

pbear
  • participating member
  • 262 posts
  • Location:San Francisco

Posted 16 February 2013 - 10:48 PM

Hmm, I've done short ribs 24 hours at 150ºF and was very happy with the results. Nicely tender, though not falling apart. For that, I'd try 36 hours. Nickrey's suggestion probably gets to the same place as regards reduction of collagen to gelatin, though the texture would be a bit softer (less water extracted, which is either good or bad depending on personal preference). Given your stated objectives, torolover, I suspect you'll like my approach better, but you should try both.

But, frankly, I wonder whether the problem is the meat you're sourcing. Have you prepared conventional braised short ribs with that meat? Were you happy with the results? If you haven't done that test, I'd recommend it first. If nothing else, it'll give you a baseline for comparison. And maybe it's simply that this isn't a cut you like done sous vide. Nothing wrong with that.

#8 torolover

torolover
  • society donor
  • 55 posts

Posted 17 February 2013 - 06:30 AM

I don't think it's the ribs, since I got them at Whole Foods and they have lots of marbling in them. My goal is to get short ribs that are almost falling apart so I don't need a knife, but still moist and not stringy or tough. I have tried the low temps so far, but have not succeeded.

I have tried:

134F for 48 hours and 72 hours- great, but not what I'm looking for. Still need a knife and it's not falling apart.
140F for 48 hours and 72 hours- great, a little more flaky, but still need a knife
150F for 24 hours- not great, tough to chew and still need a knife
150F for 48 hours- not great, still tough to chew and need a knife
191F for 7 hours- OK, yes, falling apart, don't need a knife, BUT tough to chew on, and dry

I will try 160F at 24 hours next, and then at 36 hours.

Anyone else have good temp or times for moist, traditional falling apart short ribs?

Edited by torolover, 17 February 2013 - 06:53 AM.


#9 sigma

sigma
  • participating member
  • 304 posts

Posted 17 February 2013 - 08:18 AM

180 for 8 hours is going to give you a pretty traditional braise texture for any meat you use, yet it will be significantly juicier than meat braised traditionally in a 350 oven.

#10 FeChef

FeChef
  • participating member
  • 398 posts

Posted 17 February 2013 - 09:19 AM

I don't think it's the ribs, since I got them at Whole Foods and they have lots of marbling in them. My goal is to get short ribs that are almost falling apart so I don't need a knife, but still moist and not stringy or tough. I have tried the low temps so far, but have not succeeded.

I have tried:

134F for 48 hours and 72 hours- great, but not what I'm looking for. Still need a knife and it's not falling apart.
140F for 48 hours and 72 hours- great, a little more flaky, but still need a knife
150F for 24 hours- not great, tough to chew and still need a knife
150F for 48 hours- not great, still tough to chew and need a knife
191F for 7 hours- OK, yes, falling apart, don't need a knife, BUT tough to chew on, and dry

I will try 160F at 24 hours next, and then at 36 hours.

Anyone else have good temp or times for moist, traditional falling apart short ribs?


Wow you are dedicated. I pretty much gave up after two attempts @ 48 hours each time and $40 dollars waisted. I just dont have the time or money to waste on this dish. My chuck roasts turn out amazing and cost a fraction of what short ribs cost.

#11 nickrey

nickrey
  • society donor
  • 2,158 posts
  • Location:Sydney, Australia

Posted 17 February 2013 - 09:59 PM

Cooking it low and slow produces moist, tender meat but with a steak like consistency, which most of us see as a good thing. Cooking it above 150F will lead to the meat falling apart but the temperature means you lose liquid and it becomes dry. There may not be a happy medium where you get both things that you want.

 

I wouldn't discount experimenting with different meat sources as well. Marbling is one component of meat but there are many more that affect how it will react to cooking.


Edited by nickrey, 17 February 2013 - 10:00 PM.

Nick Reynolds, aka "nickrey"

"My doctor told me to stop having intimate dinners for four.
Unless there are three other people." Orson Welles
My eG Foodblog


#12 Twyst

Twyst
  • participating member
  • 293 posts

Posted 18 February 2013 - 07:05 AM

It sounds as though you may just want to  stick to braising when it comes to short ribs.  The allure of sous vide shortribs is the steak like consistency.  If you want melt in your mouth, shred with your fork texture a simple braise is the best way to accomplish that. 



#13 torolover

torolover
  • society donor
  • 55 posts

Posted 23 February 2013 - 06:02 AM

I don't think it's the ribs, since I got them at Whole Foods and they have lots of marbling in them. My goal is to get short ribs that are almost falling apart so I don't need a knife, but still moist and not stringy or tough. I have tried the low temps so far, but have not succeeded.

I have tried:

134F for 48 hours and 72 hours- great, but not what I'm looking for. Still need a knife and it's not falling apart.
140F for 48 hours and 72 hours- great, a little more flaky, but still need a knife
150F for 24 hours- not great, tough to chew and still need a knife
150F for 48 hours- not great, still tough to chew and need a knife
191F for 7 hours- OK, yes, falling apart, don't need a knife, BUT tough to chew on, and dry

I will try 160F at 24 hours next, and then at 36 hours.

Anyone else have good temp or times for moist, traditional falling apart short ribs?


Wow you are dedicated. I pretty much gave up after two attempts @ 48 hours each time and $40 dollars waisted. I just dont have the time or money to waste on this dish. My chuck roasts turn out amazing and cost a fraction of what short ribs cost.

 

I don't think it's the ribs, since I got them at Whole Foods and they have lots of marbling in them. My goal is to get short ribs that are almost falling apart so I don't need a knife, but still moist and not stringy or tough. I have tried the low temps so far, but have not succeeded.

I have tried:

134F for 48 hours and 72 hours- great, but not what I'm looking for. Still need a knife and it's not falling apart.
140F for 48 hours and 72 hours- great, a little more flaky, but still need a knife
150F for 24 hours- not great, tough to chew and still need a knife
150F for 48 hours- not great, still tough to chew and need a knife
191F for 7 hours- OK, yes, falling apart, don't need a knife, BUT tough to chew on, and dry

I will try 160F at 24 hours next, and then at 36 hours.

Anyone else have good temp or times for moist, traditional falling apart short ribs?I'm pretty close to finding the perfect time and temp for traditional falling apart short ribs, but keeping it stil moist!

I want to keep you guys updated on my experiments.  I'm pretty close to finding and temp/time for traditional falling apart short ribs that are still moist and not stringy!!

 

160F at 24 hours- still not falling apart or fork tender

160F at 38 hours- falling apart, fork tender, still moist

160F at 42 hours- even more falling apart, need no knife, still moist

 

I'm going to try 180F at 6 hours and 8 hours next!!

 

Thanks for the tips guys!!



#14 torolover

torolover
  • society donor
  • 55 posts

Posted 24 February 2013 - 09:06 AM

 

I don't think it's the ribs, since I got them at Whole Foods and they have lots of marbling in them. My goal is to get short ribs that are almost falling apart so I don't need a knife, but still moist and not stringy or tough. I have tried the low temps so far, but have not succeeded.

I have tried:

134F for 48 hours and 72 hours- great, but not what I'm looking for. Still need a knife and it's not falling apart.
140F for 48 hours and 72 hours- great, a little more flaky, but still need a knife
150F for 24 hours- not great, tough to chew and still need a knife
150F for 48 hours- not great, still tough to chew and need a knife
191F for 7 hours- OK, yes, falling apart, don't need a knife, BUT tough to chew on, and dry

I will try 160F at 24 hours next, and then at 36 hours.

Anyone else have good temp or times for moist, traditional falling apart short ribs?


Wow you are dedicated. I pretty much gave up after two attempts @ 48 hours each time and $40 dollars waisted. I just dont have the time or money to waste on this dish. My chuck roasts turn out amazing and cost a fraction of what short ribs cost.

 

>I don't think it's the ribs, since I got them at Whole Foods and they have lots of marbling in them. My goal is to get short ribs that are almost falling apart so I don't need a knife, but still moist and not stringy or tough. I have tried the low temps so far, but have not succeeded.

I have tried:

134F for 48 hours and 72 hours- great, but not what I'm looking for. Still need a knife and it's not falling apart.
140F for 48 hours and 72 hours- great, a little more flaky, but still need a knife
150F for 24 hours- not great, tough to chew and still need a knife
150F for 48 hours- not great, still tough to chew and need a knife
191F for 7 hours- OK, yes, falling apart, don't need a knife, BUT tough to chew on, and dry

I will try 160F at 24 hours next, and then at 36 hours.

Anyone else have good temp or times for moist, traditional falling apart short ribs?I'm pretty close to finding the perfect time and temp for traditional falling apart short ribs, but keeping it stil moist!

I want to keep you guys updated on my experiments.  I'm pretty close to finding and temp/time for traditional falling apart short ribs that are still moist and not stringy!!

 

160F at 24 hours- still not falling apart or fork tender

160F at 38 hours- falling apart, fork tender, still moist

160F at 42 hours- even more falling apart, need no knife, still moist

 

I'm going to try 180F at 6 hours and 8 hours next!!

 

Thanks for the tips guys!!

 

Another update.  So far I found 180F at 9 hours and a half the best yet!!!  Falling apart, no knife needed, still moist and not stringy!!

 

Thanks for the tip Sigma!!!!



#15 Lawless Cooks

Lawless Cooks
  • participating member
  • 17 posts

Posted 24 February 2013 - 05:55 PM

My first attempt at any longer cooking time Sous Vide and my first with short ribs.

 

Followed MCAH recipe and cooked at the higher end of their suggested range - 144F for 72 hours. 

 

A day in I started having second thoughts about a temp so high. When they came out, they were great. I would have preferred slightly more towards mid-rare, but I'm on board, some of the best short ribs I've ever had. Next time I might try 136 or 138F.

 

They weren't fall apart/no knife, but fairly close. I didn't really care though. They were so moist and had so much more beef flavor than I was used to with restaurant short ribs.

Attached Images

  • IMG_0210.jpg

Edited by Lawless Cooks, 24 February 2013 - 05:55 PM.


#16 Zmaster

Zmaster
  • participating member
  • 9 posts

Posted 09 March 2013 - 03:07 AM

My first attempt at any longer cooking time Sous Vide and my first with short ribs.

 

Followed MCAH recipe and cooked at the higher end of their suggested range - 144F for 72 hours. 

 

A day in I started having second thoughts about a temp so high. When they came out, they were great. I would have preferred slightly more towards mid-rare, but I'm on board, some of the best short ribs I've ever had. Next time I might try 136 or 138F.

 

They weren't fall apart/no knife, but fairly close. I didn't really care though. They were so moist and had so much more beef flavor than I was used to with restaurant short ribs.

Lawless,

 

Those ribs look fantastic.  

 

I have done short ribs several time and I have had great success with Heston Blumenthal's recipe which calls for pre-salting, multiple baths with a final bath temp of 56 C / 133 for 72 h.  When they were done, you did not need a knife to cut, and were not at all tough with a great beefy flavor.



#17 Lawless Cooks

Lawless Cooks
  • participating member
  • 17 posts

Posted 09 March 2013 - 07:24 AM

Thanks - they tasted as good as they looked!

 

For my second attempt, I used 72 hours @ 138. The meat was sourced from a local butcher this time as opposed to Whole Foods last time. Not sure if it was the temperature or meat that made the difference but I think I liked the first time better. Need a few more experiments (followed by 5K runs) to figure it all out.

 

I want to get HB at Home and start playing around with his recipes and techniques. Have been watching him on YouTube and using his potato puree trick lately:steep the peels in the mile you are going to use ...

 

Sounds interesting, multiple temperatures and would like to understand the effects better.

Attached Images

  • IMG_0223.jpg


#18 JoNorvelleWalker

JoNorvelleWalker
  • participating member
  • 935 posts
  • Location:New Jersey USA

Posted 23 March 2014 - 11:34 PM

I cooked my 72 hr short ribs at 60.5 C (thanks to lesliec).  I browned them along with roast carrots and potatoes with rosemary, grains of paradise, and mint.  To be picky I over cooked the carrots and got everything a bit to salty.  But wow, was it good.

 

I have one more pouch of ribs (rib) and am wondering how to serve it.



#19 lesliec

lesliec
  • host
  • 890 posts
  • Location:Wellington, New Zealand

Posted 24 March 2014 - 01:13 AM

Glad it worked, Jo. They are just slightly wonderful, aren't they?

I'm a believer in keeping it simple. I had a couple of fresh sage leaves in with mine as they cooked. A bit of salt and pepper after searing, and some of the bag juices (boiled to reduce slightly) over the top.

Leslie Craven, aka "lesliec"
Host, eG Forumslcraven@egstaff.org

After a good dinner one can forgive anybody, even one's own relatives ~ Oscar Wilde

My eG Foodblog

eGullet Ethics Code signatory


#20 JoNorvelleWalker

JoNorvelleWalker
  • participating member
  • 935 posts
  • Location:New Jersey USA

Posted 24 March 2014 - 11:23 AM

How did you sear yours, may I ask?  I removed the bones (which just fell out) and turned my pieces in the 400 deg F hot lard (lovely Modernist Cuisine pressure cooker lard) in which the carrots and potatoes were over roasting.  Then browned the pieces in the oven for about fifteen minutes.

 

I did a wine reduction of the bag juices with a butter swirl but I don't think it added anything.

 

When I reheat the leftover piece, still sealed in its bag, should I use 60.5 deg C, a lower temperature, or should I just brown cold from the refrigerator?

 

Which reminds me:  on their website MC calls for (or at least strongly suggests) double bagging the ribs when cooking this long.  Yet I don't recall any mention of double bagging in the MC books.  My three bags held up well, no leaks or other problems.  No strange smells, as some have reported, nor anything else untoward.



#21 lesliec

lesliec
  • host
  • 890 posts
  • Location:Wellington, New Zealand

Posted 24 March 2014 - 11:50 AM

I seared mine in rice bran oil in a very hot cast-iron pan, maybe a minute each side. They shouldn't need oven time after what they've just been through.

I've seen suggestions to blunt the ends of bones with paper towels or foil, but I've never bothered with short ribs, which are pretty blunt anyway. Double bagging is if you don't entirely trust your seals. I double-seal for that reason. I've heard of FoodSaver bags letting go at the sides but I don't think it's happened to me. It really comes down to your level of paranoia.

Reheating: I don't think I'd go any higher than maybe 55. The things are cooked; you're not going to get them any more tender. Browning from cold risks a cool middle. Not a safety issue, just not as nice.

Leslie Craven, aka "lesliec"
Host, eG Forumslcraven@egstaff.org

After a good dinner one can forgive anybody, even one's own relatives ~ Oscar Wilde

My eG Foodblog

eGullet Ethics Code signatory






Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Modernist