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Sous Vide: Recipes, Techniques & Equipment, 2012


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#871 rotuts

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 12:41 PM

gf: you SV'd the turkey breast with the skin on? that part was not clear to me.

then did the browning?

i have yet to incorporate skin into my turkey SV. Im thinking that the double silicone matt technique might be the way to go with saved skin.

#872 Merkinz

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 04:02 PM

@PedroG: Thanks for the insight! Although I did a lot of reading (books and this forum) about short ribs prior to this test run I read nothing about this (or I simply missed it!). This is helpful. I'll do the next batch at a lower temp.

@Ranz: I might stick to 48 hours for my next cook so I can see the effects of changing one vairiable (temp)... But I'll definitely try 60h on my following cook. Also I never deepfried until this year and I'm really getting the hang of it and realizing that it is not the devil I always assumed it was. ... And I just use a pot + thermometer.

@Rotuts: Thanks for your time and temps! ... Also thanks for prompting me to go back and read through some of the history here. I have skimmed a few dozzen pages here but now I'm using the SV index and search and I have at least a dozen tabs open now to read. :biggrin:

Thanks for the help everyone.

#873 gfweb

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 04:54 PM

gf: you SV'd the turkey breast with the skin on? that part was not clear to me.

then did the browning?

i have yet to incorporate skin into my turkey SV. Im thinking that the double silicone matt technique might be the way to go with saved skin.


Yes. I dissected the breast en bloc with skin on. Lightly salted it and popped it into a zip-loc bag that I rolled so the meat would cook in a round shape. After SV I then chilled it and and fried it up before serving.

Most of the skin was short of crunchy, but close to it. Some was still a little fatty.

#874 PedroG

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 05:39 PM

Above 60°C the thin collagen sheaths surrounding the muscle fibers shrink and squeeze the juice out of the muscle fibers, making them dry and tough. Try 48h/55°C-58°C (eventually 72h, but longer cooking time increases liquid loss, you have to find your compromise between juicy and tender).

@PedroG: Thanks for the insight! Although I did a lot of reading (books and this forum) about short ribs prior to this test run I read nothing about this (or I simply missed it!). This is helpful. I'll do the next batch at a lower temp. @Ranz: I might stick to 48 hours for my next cook so I can see the effects of changing one vairiable (temp)... But I'll definitely try 60h on my following cook. Also I never deepfried until this year and I'm really getting the hang of it and realizing that it is not the devil I always assumed it was. ... And I just use a pot + thermometer. @Rotuts: Thanks for your time and temps! ... Also thanks for prompting me to go back and read through some of the history here. I have skimmed a few dozzen pages here but now I'm using the SV index and search and I have at least a dozen tabs open now to read. :biggrin: Thanks for the help everyone.

Merkinz: here are two sources about muscle fibers and collagen shrinking at/above 60°C: Douglas Baldwin's guide "Effects of Heat on Meat" and McGee On Food and Cooking (2004) page 152.
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#875 PedroG

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 05:46 PM

Deep frying is easy so long as you don't have the pot too full of oil, watch the temp, have a lid and fire extinguisher at hand and remember to dry off the food pre-fry.

Be aware that not all fire extinguishers are suitable for a fat burn, see this video (start at 1:33). A fire blanket is safer.
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#876 ChrisTaylor

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 02:01 PM

Nothing but good things to say about the Sous Vide at Home people. The unit started displaying crazy temperatures. An email later and I was offered a full refund or repair. I opted for the latter and what appears to be a new unit was sent out within a couple of days of them receiving my faulty temperature controller.

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#877 nickrey

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 02:51 PM

Nothing but good things to say about the Sous Vide at Home people. The unit started displaying crazy temperatures. An email later and I was offered a full refund or repair. I opted for the latter and what appears to be a new unit was sent out within a couple of days of them receiving my faulty temperature controller.

I note that they now have a PiD controller instead of the bang on bang off they used to have.

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#878 ScottyBoy

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 05:31 PM

I'm gonna go with shrimp time and temp but just to double check with the masters. I've got langostines to mess around with. Any different?

Sure they'll cook up easy in a pan but I'd love to be able to skewer, bag with butter and serve a larger crowd with ease.
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#879 HowardLi

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 08:52 PM

Salting a piece of meat that is SVed for a long time; current opinion holds that it should be done only after SV. How, then, to salt to the interior? If the meat is fresh, salt applied to the exterior can diffuse into the center. Can this diffusion still occur in cooked meat, and if so, is the speed of diffusion the same?

#880 Baselerd

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 08:03 AM

Salting a piece of meat that is SVed for a long time; current opinion holds that it should be done only after SV. How, then, to salt to the interior? If the meat is fresh, salt applied to the exterior can diffuse into the center. Can this diffusion still occur in cooked meat, and if so, is the speed of diffusion the same?


I always brine/cure meats before cooking SV. Works great.

#881 HowardLi

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 10:02 AM

<<<The panel easily and unanimously correctly distinguished between the salted and unsalted cook-chill meats. As expected, the salted meats were firmer, and had a more cured color than the unsalted. Everyone preferred the unsalted meat. The panelists were also all able to distinguish between the salted direct-serve meat and the unsalted cook-chill. Here, the panelists also preferred the unsalted cook chill, because the direct-serve steak, although juicier than the cook-chill steak, had a stringier texture. The differences between these two steaks were not as stark as with the salted and unsalted cook-chill meats. In my opinion, the differences between these two could simply be due to inter-steak variation. More tests are in order.>>>

http://webcache.goog...e&hl=en&ct=clnk (website got hacked but the content is still there)

MCaH says not to salt before doing sous vide for long periods of time, and Dave Arnold recommends not to salt before SV if the meat is not to be served immediately thereafter. Not exactly what I was trying to get at but MCaH does indeed make that claim as far as their short ribs go, which are cooked for 72 hours.

#882 radtek

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 11:06 AM

That is good info there on "Cooking Issues". Thanks. Cleared something up regarding "salting" for me. It may be about the finer points as something may not be ruined by salting it beforehand but discerning palates may notice the difference. Obviously everyone wants their food to be optimum- especially if serving it to others.

#883 jmolinari

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 11:15 AM

I have definitely noticed a difference in texture when presalting a rib steak that then froze before sous viding.

#884 Baselerd

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 12:17 PM

<<<The panel easily and unanimously correctly distinguished between the salted and unsalted cook-chill meats. As expected, the salted meats were firmer, and had a more cured color than the unsalted. Everyone preferred the unsalted meat. The panelists were also all able to distinguish between the salted direct-serve meat and the unsalted cook-chill. Here, the panelists also preferred the unsalted cook chill, because the direct-serve steak, although juicier than the cook-chill steak, had a stringier texture. The differences between these two steaks were not as stark as with the salted and unsalted cook-chill meats. In my opinion, the differences between these two could simply be due to inter-steak variation. More tests are in order.>>>

http://webcache.goog...e&hl=en&ct=clnk (website got hacked but the content is still there)

MCaH says not to salt before doing sous vide for long periods of time, and Dave Arnold recommends not to salt before SV if the meat is not to be served immediately thereafter. Not exactly what I was trying to get at but MCaH does indeed make that claim as far as their short ribs go, which are cooked for 72 hours.


Sounds interesting. Are we talking curing/brining, or just salting for seasoning?

I know the MC and MCaH recipes for Sous Vide pork belly have you salt it before SV'ing it. Both Under Pressure (Thomas Keller) and Eleven Madison Park have quite a few meats that are cured first, then sous vide cooked - most of them confit meats.

#885 rotuts

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 02:12 PM

goulash SV? even Gulyasleves

I have some nice beef Sirloin tips that Im aging for a bit in my refig before I make my usual with them 'pinwheels' now 'horseShoes' ( easier ) with my fav Roast Beef Seasoning for Steaks or Steak sandwiches in the future.

Id like to make some Goulash with some and do the same cooking: 130 for 6 hrs. tender delicious.

this need not be 'finished' ie warm and eat. Im interested in the G that more like a stew than a soup.

If I dont hear Ill just add fresh true hungarian sweet paprika to the meat and deal with the other flavors at 'service'

thanks.

#886 nickrey

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 04:34 PM

My Goulash is based on an Austrian recipe. Central to it is equal quantities of onion and meat. The onion is cooked such that it dissolves to flavour and thicken the gravy. If you are going to sous vide the meat, I'd use the MC technique of using a pressure cooker to caramelise the onions and then make it into a sauce with some paprika, salt, caraway seed, garlic, and the liquid thrown by the sous vide meat (some also add a few tbsp of tomato paste but the traditionalists would frown on this). Cool sauce and combine the night before serving with the sous vide cooked meat. Reheat and serve with a dollop of sour cream.

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#887 radtek

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 05:15 PM

Y'know this sounds complicated. Like visiting my next door neighbor by way of walking around the block.

I guess things will be revealed to me.

#888 rotuts

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 05:16 PM

Wow! thats it. just what I needed to know. many thanks!

#889 rotuts

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 05:17 PM

going around the block builds up the appetite!

#890 paulpegg

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 06:01 PM

Y'know this sounds complicated. Like visiting my next door neighbor by way of walking around the block.

I guess things will be revealed to me.


Keep doing it and in a year or two you will be serving up great sous vide dinners without breaking a sweat. Example; On Tuesday i decided to have some Momofuku short ribs. I have a number of two serving bags in the freezer at all times. I portion and salt and pepper the meat and seal it in a bag with 1/2 cup of the marinade and put them in the freezer. Late Tuesday I set the sous vide system to 55C and put in one bag after it got to temperature. This evening i took it out, seared it in hot oil and served it with some mashed potatoes and blanched/seared brussels sprouts and cranberries. It's sort of like walking around the block. No big deal but delicious.
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#891 pep.

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 12:22 AM

goulash SV? even Gulyasleves


I've done some experiments with SV goulash a while back. My exploits are documented in http://forums.egulle...dernist-Goulash.

#892 ChrisTaylor

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 01:56 AM

If you wanted to crisp the skin on a sv turkey breast, would you chill and (briefly) deep fry or park it in the oven for a while? Any other suggestions? Would air drying in the fridge for a few hours make my turkey skin crisp up more effectively, no matter the method I chose?

Edited by ChrisTaylor, 30 November 2012 - 02:14 AM.

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#893 KennethT

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 06:45 AM

I've never been able to get turkey breast skin to be very good. The times and temps that make the meat perfect just aren't enough to soften the tough skin - so it always comes out a little rubbery. I've tried pour-over frying, torch, smoking hot saute pan... just about everything but a deep fry. But in order to leave it in the fryer long enough to do some good, you'll have to really chill down the surface - I'm thinking the MC 30 second dunk in LN type cold. Putting in a standard freezer won't work fast enough, I'd think.

Another thought just came to me thinking about Singaporean chicken-rice - they get a great texture on the skin (granted, it's chicken skin, not turkey, so it starts out much thinner) by dunking the chicken in boiling water then putting in an ice bath. I've done similar things at home and it works well with parts too - if you get the meat really cold - not necessarily freezing - then give it a few minutes in simmering water, maybe that would be enough to soften the skin a bit, while the meat underneath is still uncooked. Then shock in the ice bath, bag and cook SV. Hopefully the skin will have softened a bit during the simmer so that it will be able to get crispy once cooked with the high heat post SV.

#894 rob1234

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 11:46 AM

This year I removed the skin from the raw turkey and cooked it separately in the oven between two sheet pans. Then I broke it up into turkey skin crackers sprinkled on top of the sliced turkey meat. Worked pretty well I thought.

#895 rotuts

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 11:57 AM

did you use two silicone pads? do you think the turkey skin might be saved/bagged/frozen and brought out later for this?

#896 rob1234

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 12:59 PM

did you use two silicone pads? do you think the turkey skin might be saved/bagged/frozen and brought out later for this?


I used two sheets of parchment paper. Yes, I took it off and had it bagged in the fridge for a few days before cooking it right before dinner.

#897 rotuts

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 01:32 PM

never thought of that. good idea!

#898 rotuts

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 03:12 PM

In the past I asked for advice on 'grass fed beef' esp SV.

in my town there is a market in the summer of farmed veg, crafts and even shell-fish from Miane.

they also have CSA grass fed beef, most of it by subscription which you get weekly vacuum packed and frozen in a cooler. they also have a small retail 'a la cart' stand.

I never had GFB so got two 'sirloin steaks' from them in the past. I finally SV'd them in a large batch of sirloin tips i was doing anyway from the MegaloMart.

130.1 6 hours. ( the .1 was to be PC, but I wish 126 were PC! )

here is what I thought: the butchering was uneven which i noticed before: the steak was not even in its thickness. this does not matter SV but would matter a lot on other quick grilling methods.

it had an interesting flavor. I cant tell you what that is, but this flavor stays with you for quite a while and is in the end very interesting. its also firmer, and not as 'rich' ie inner beef fat. it was tender enough as I cooked it.

I cut off all the peripheral fat, as i think my daily dose of Cow Fat might be better used with a little butter on the veg, and of course the Supreme Cow Fat: aged Cheese!.

I scraped off the Beef Bits on this Fat Tranche and offered them to Mr. Earthquake, pictured on the L ( or R ). He decided to move along from in front of the Wood Stove and devoured this in a milisecond.

so this has potential. I personally would not get this stuff from Whole Foods unless you won that recent lottery.

but if you are in 'beef country' and have an established relationship with a local provider, this cut of Grass Fed would do fine as an aging project and be in the end mighty fine. I think aging this might make it outstanding. SV for tenderness and not to over cook it. Lottery tickets might help.

Please let us (me ! ) know of any Grass Fed beef you would go back to.

Edited by rotuts, 02 December 2012 - 03:15 PM.


#899 Syzygies

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 08:38 PM

stock.jpg
limes.jpg


My favorite piece of sous vide related equipment (so far) would have to be my impulse sealer. Plain vacuum chamber pouches are far more satisfying than any textured pouch or zip lock bag I've ever seen, and less expensive. I own whatever FoodSaver they last claimed was best, and frequently want to hurl it across the room. I covet a chamber vacuum machine such as the VacMaster VP215C, but one can't use hot liquids with it, and I like conventional hot starts for braises. And impulse sealers make great seals.

With enough liquid and a bit of dexterity, one can seal liquids with no air bubble, faster and with less mess than either an external clamp or chamber vacuum machine. It helps to prop up the sealer at a slight angle, and let gravity pull down on the bag while draping it over the sealer. Now squeeze the bag till the air bubble finds the high way out, smooth the seal area till only the faintest liquid remains, and seal on a fairly high setting. Test the seal.

I can't imagine an easier or more space-efficient system for anyone serious about freezing stock, no matter what other equipment they own. Stock in my mind justifies owning the vacuum chamber pouches and an impulse sealer, even if one envisions no other uses. We also freeze our tomato crop this way for the year, after skinning and partially drying.

Lurking here before joining, I was intrigued by pounce's 2008 check valve:

http://forums.egulle...60#entry1517660

With sufficient liquid (braise or confit), one can prepare anything for sous vide using just an impulse sealer. The issue is getting by with as little liquid as possible, without feeling like a total klutz. I had been using water displacement (Archimedes) and bag clamps originally designed for oxygen absorbers, with mixed success. At the same time, I've always been struck by how clingy the vacuum chamber pouches themselves are, when wet. Perhaps one could fabricate a check valve into the bag itself, with the correct seal pattern? Hey, people etch circuit boards in their garage, how hard can a check valve "circuit" be?

Fast forward past several ill-conceived, overwrought experiments. The dumbest possible idea works best: Fill your bag, seal (air and all) across the very top of the bag, and snip off a top corner exposing a 1mm (or so) leak. Now immerse the bag in water with that corner high (I like acrylic Cambros) and let the air pocket bubble its way out. Leave a tiny bubble at the corner (that's your check valve) while you tease the contents to work all remaining bubbles to the top. Smooth the top portion of the bag against the flat of the Cambro, working out all the air. Now gently remove, supporting the contents; the top portion of the bag stays sealed by the thin film of liquid between the two layers. Move over to the impulse sealer, put in a permanent seal, trim and you're done.

Pictured on the left are two rangpur limes with 4 TB of wine, and on the right two Bearss limes with 3 TB of wine. 4 TB was trivial, while 3 TB was a struggle. So there are limits without owning a chamber machine. Nevertheless, I've tried the alternatives and this combination is my strong preference on a budget.
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#900 DiggingDogFarm

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 09:12 PM

Wow!

Great post!


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