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Sous Vide: Recipes, Techniques & Equipment, 2012


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#541 pep.

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 01:26 PM


I think their heater is way underpowered at 750 watts, especially compared to the 5 gallons (= 19 liters) maximum vessel size that they claim.

I disagree: while you won't get great response time with it, 750 watts is capable of heating and maintaining temp in a 19L bath. Start with hot water if you don't want to wait.


Of course its doable, but a hassle. Personally, I think my Polyscience circulator is a bit underpowered at 1100 watts. I need a second circulator to do two different temperatures at the same time (especially for vegetables). At the moment, the SWID seems like the best value for money (in Europe). The new version has a 2000 watts heater, so getting to the necessary 85 °C should be easier.

#542 Chris Hennes

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 01:27 PM

is this the type of heating element in the SideKic?

http://www.amazon.co...mmersion heater

thanks

Yes.

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#543 Chris Hennes

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 01:29 PM

Of course its doable, but a hassle.

Sure: to a point more power is always going to be better. But at $300, I think 750 Watts is very respectable, and will be completely adequate for nearly all residential sous vide uses. You can buy a lot of Nomikus for the price of a PolyScience unit.

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#544 rotuts

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 01:45 PM

I use the immersion heater(s) all the time now in my 'smaller' set-ups: 9 qt and 16 qt. insulated 'beer' coolers I use a stiff piece of styrofoam insulation that fits on the ridge along the inner top that has 2 - 3 holes drilled in them to accept 2 - 3 of these which i then connect up to my SVM PID. they cost 8 $ at Bed and bath and i get two with their ubiquitous 20 % coupons.

what ive found is that if I lift the holder out of the water and do not turn off the power first, the heaters heat up quite quickly. I sometimes do this to move the bags around. On replacing the heaters in the water they easily short out and then become useless. I asked an engineering friend about this and he though as these heaters are so cheap and used for cups of water, the short-out is meant to protect the user from improper use. Ive replaced 3 over a years various use. No big deal at that cost point.

I only mention this to avoid unnecessary failure with the SideKic unit if this is the case with the wiring on the heating element in this unit. I have no way of knowing of course. It may have been rewired. But for me $5 is no big deal for a new heating unit.

Edited by rotuts, 21 June 2012 - 01:48 PM.


#545 paulpegg

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 02:00 PM

I think their heater is way underpowered at 750 watts, especially compared to the 5 gallons (= 19 liters) maximum vessel size that they claim.


I think 750 Watts is respectable at this price point and capacity. I use a 1000 Watt bucket heater in my DIY system that I set up in 2010 and it keeps a large beer cooler at temperatures up to 95C for days with no problem.
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#546 rotuts

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 03:08 PM

thanks for the DIY .pdf. i thought about the bucket heater should my current system fail for my large beer cooler: How do you keep the heater away from the plastic of the cooler? I noted the wooden block. does the circular metal sleeve on the heater get warm? would plastic bags be damaged if against it? how far from the bottom of the heater does the actual heating element extend that needs to be submerged?

thanks for sharing a fine set up!

#547 Chris Hennes

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 03:41 PM

Since I posted the in-process shot above, here's a completely gratuitous plated dinner shot:

DSC_1969.jpg

0.75% salt, 0.25% black pepper, sealed up rested in the fridge for five days, then SV@133°F, seared for a few seconds per side, served with Maître d'Hôtel Butter. It was a stunning piece of meat to begin with, just trying not to screw it up here: it worked.

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#548 paulpegg

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 03:43 PM

The metal sleeve does not get hot so it can come in contact with the cooler and the bags. The wooden block is just to keep the heater from sliding down into the cooler. The coil is centered inside the metal shield and is 5 inches long, the shield is 7 inches long.

I have changed the pump since I wrote that article. I now use an external centrifugal pump that pumps 110 gallons per hour and is rated up to 95C. The aquarium pumps all fail above 65 or 70C. I bought two in case one failed but the first one has been going strong for over a year.

Thanks,
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#549 rotuts

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 04:52 PM

thanks so much. can you give a ref. to the pumps you now use?

how might a 'bubbler' external for the pump with a few 'lava' bubblers in the water work?

appreciate it!

Edited by rotuts, 21 June 2012 - 04:53 PM.


#550 paulpegg

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 05:40 PM

You can buy the pump here. I also had to buy a 120 vac to 12v dc transformer. These are readily available for less than $10. I am using some high temperature silicon tubing and metal tubing to keep everything in order. It looks like this now.

pump.jpg

The tubing is attached to two pieces of metal tubing and clamped to the side of the cooler so it stays in place and cannot fall out. i had the return side fall out once and the pump emptied the cooler to the floor in a few minutes. That was not a good scene.

Some people have used bubblers to good effect but I like the circulation that the pump provides. The water really moves and the temperature is the same throughout the cooler.

Hope this helps.

Attached Images

  • tubing.jpg

Edited by paulpegg, 21 June 2012 - 05:41 PM.

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#551 ScottyBoy

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 06:50 PM

I just dropped a chicken ballotine at 160F, having trouble finding a time. How long should it be in?
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#552 Chris Hennes

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 07:24 PM

What's the diameter?

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#553 ScottyBoy

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 07:31 PM

8cm

This was just a last minute thing so I just tossed it in the water.

Edited by ScottyBoy, 21 June 2012 - 07:32 PM.

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#554 rotuts

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 03:39 AM

Wow! fantastic SV rig. seems you had a lot of fun makiing it. How many lbs of SV does it hold? I 'routinely' to a 22 lbs boned out turkey when I can. Different packs of white meat ( 'roasts', thai, indian, chinese, etc) for 3 hours at 145 then the dark at 160 for 24.

are there any pumps that are inexpensive that can take the heat to say 170 that can be submersed that you know of?

Edited by rotuts, 22 June 2012 - 03:40 AM.


#555 paulpegg

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 05:43 AM

Wow! fantastic SV rig. seems you had a lot of fun makiing it. How many lbs of SV does it hold? I 'routinely' to a 22 lbs boned out turkey when I can. Different packs of white meat ( 'roasts', thai, indian, chinese, etc) for 3 hours at 145 then the dark at 160 for 24.

are there any pumps that are inexpensive that can take the heat to say 170 that can be submersed that you know of?


I haven't kept track of the capacity in pounds but a 22 pound turkey would be easy to do. I have done 15 dozen eggs with no problem.

I have not found a submersible pump that will be reliable at 170F. They are designed for use in fish tanks and pools and the plastics deform at high temperatures. I found they fail at temperatures over 150F.
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#556 rotuts

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 05:57 AM

many thanks for all your help. i love the rig. Ill start out with several 'bubblers' and move on to pumps later.

#557 MSRadell

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 09:07 AM

Here's another controller package that looks quite promising: http://www.dorkfood.com/
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#558 m61376

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 03:04 PM

I want to make some veal short ribs. I've cooked beef ones at 140 for 48 hours and they are AMAZING! I wanted to know what temp. to cook veal, and would I use the same length of time? In general, do you use the same temps for veal and beef or a little higher for veal?

#559 Justin Uy

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 08:36 PM

This is looking like a Kickstarter I can get behind.

http://www.kickstart...to-your-kitchen


They actually met their funding goal this morning, so they'll be going into production with them if anyone is interested in picking one up. I'm already in for one.

#560 jrshaul

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 09:21 PM

Does anyone know a source for food-safe thermocouple probes?

#561 nickrey

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Posted 30 June 2012 - 12:15 AM


This is looking like a Kickstarter I can get behind.

http://www.kickstart...to-your-kitchen


They actually met their funding goal this morning, so they'll be going into production with them if anyone is interested in picking one up. I'm already in for one.

It is a marvellous opportunity for Australians to get a piece of kitchen electrics at a US price (plus $20 postage). Our distributors would normally at least double the price adding the "Australia Tax" which makes our retailers some of the most profitable in the world. I've pledged the amount needed to buy one as well.
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#562 paulpegg

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Posted 30 June 2012 - 07:00 AM

Does anyone know a source for food-safe thermocouple probes?


Taylor makes this one. http://www.taylorusa...ety-system.html

There are many others available for measuring the temperature of the food. You don't need one of these if you are setting up a sous vide system since the food does not come in contact with the water bath.
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#563 jrshaul

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Posted 01 July 2012 - 01:06 AM

There are many others available for measuring the temperature of the food. You don't need one of these if you are setting up a sous vide system since the food does not come in contact with the water bath.


I'd like to have SV-level precision cooking regular stuff in my crock pot. If I'm gonna buy a temperature probe..

#564 Shalmanese

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Posted 01 July 2012 - 01:11 AM

I'm having a hard time envisioning how you could make a temperature probe not food safe. Isn't it all metal?
PS: I am a guy.

#565 slkinsey

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Posted 01 July 2012 - 07:42 AM



There are many others available for measuring the temperature of the food. You don't need one of these if you are setting up a sous vide system since the food does not come in contact with the water bath.


I'd like to have SV-level precision cooking regular stuff in my crock pot. If I'm gonna buy a temperature probe..


I don't believe this is really possible.
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#566 paulpegg

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Posted 01 July 2012 - 08:08 AM


There are many others available for measuring the temperature of the food. You don't need one of these if you are setting up a sous vide system since the food does not come in contact with the water bath.


I'd like to have SV-level precision cooking regular stuff in my crock pot. If I'm gonna buy a temperature probe..


Let's get some terminology right here. A temperature probe is designed to measure the temperature of whatever it is stuck into. you read the temperature on the dial or digital screen. The one I suggested has removable sanitary covers so it can be used in different foods at any temperature (within it's range).

A thermocouple is not designed to be inserted directly into the food but rather into the cooking medium in which the food is being heated. The thermocouple delivers very precise temperature measurement in the form of variable resistance to the PID controller that is controlling the energy delivered to the medium. in the case of sous vide, this is the water in the water bath. You still have to seal the food in bags in order to cook SV in your crock pot. All thermocouples used in SV are made of stainless steel and will not corrode but a food inspector might not be happy if he found one stuck into a piece of fish.

If you put a thermocouple into a crock pot full of chili and tried to cook it using a PID controller you would be very disappointed in the results since the heat transfer characteristics of the chili are much lower than water and you would have to stir it all the time to get the energy distributed throughout the batch. Don't even think about it!
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#567 mgaretz

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Posted 01 July 2012 - 08:30 AM

To be completely accurate, a thermocouple creates a varying voltage in response to temperature while a thermistor is what changes resistance in response to temperature.

#568 DouglasBaldwin

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Posted 01 July 2012 - 04:29 PM

Hi. Earlier this week, someone emailed me asking me why I talk about collagenase increasing tenderness below 60 °C after about six hours but that Heston in “In Search for Perfection” ages his steak at 50 °C and McGee says that fiber weakening enzymes “denature, become inactive, coagulate” at about 55 °C. I thought some of you might have the same question, so I've pasted my answer below:

There are a lot of different enzymes in meat. We're mainly interested in proteolytic enzymes that split proteins or peptides (which are chains of amino acids) and these enzymes are called proteases. Enzymes are named by adding an -ase onto what they act on; so any enzyme that breaks up collagen is called a collagenase. The enzymes that are important in aging or conditioning can be divided into calpains and lysosomal enzymes (including cathepsins):
• Calpains need calcium ions to be activated and act on muscle fibers (but not myosin or actin, which make up 65–70% of the myofibrillar proteins).
• Lysosomal enzymes act on muscle fibers (both myosin and actin) and (some) collagen.
See Lawrie's Meat Science for more details.

When meat is aged, typically at 1–3 °C for 1–4 weeks, it's mainly changes to the muscle fibers that increase tenderness. This is surprising because the break down of connective tissue (collagen and elastin) would seem to be the most likely cause of increased tenderness. Nonetheless, a famous experiment (Sharp, 1957) showed that almost no collagen is broken down during aging — even when he aged sterile meat for one year at 37 °C!

Since there is a great number of enzymes, there isn't a single temperature that they stop working at. Recall (from page 17 of my IJGFS article) that the sarcoplasmic proteins (which are mostly enzymes and myoglobin) start to denature around 40 °C and finishes around 60 °C. So, in other words, some enzymes stop working around 40 °C and most have stopped working around 60 °C.

The rapid aging that Heston — well, actually, Chris Young who was working for Heston at the time and told me that he based that recipe on what he'd been reading in Lawrie's Meat Science — is interested in is the break down of muscle fibers that occur in normal aging. Indeed, in another experiment that compared aging at 2 °C with 38, 43, and 49 °C found that the rate of aging was about 7 times faster at 38 °C and about 18 times faster at 49 °C than at 2 °C. This is what Myhrvold et al. (2011) is after when they suggest aging meat for even 4 hours at 45 °C can significantly increase tenderness.

While my recipes at above 55 °C and below 60 °C get some mild rapid aging while it heats up, I don't believe that this significantly increases the tenderness. What I'm after was first reported in Laakkonen et al. (1970), where they found that collagenase was active below about 60 °C and could significantly increase tenderness if held there for about six hours. Now, it seems that this collagenase only acts on some of the collagen and most of the collagen that's broken down at these temperatures (especially on the long, 1–3 day cooks) is a continuous nonenzymic breakdown. In another interesting experiment by Sharp (1964), he again held beef at 37 °C for 97 days but only after first heating to 70 °C for 15 minutes or 100 °C for 45 minutes; after heating to 70 °C, soluble hydroxyproline was 2% and raised to 23% after aging and after heating to 100 °C it raised from 12% to 55% — but certainly the enzymes are no longer active after heating so it'd seem that these changes are nonenzymic changes in the connective tissue. I don't know what exactly this implies, but it's certainly interesting.
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#569 jrshaul

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 11:29 PM

Let's get some terminology right here. A temperature probe is designed to measure the temperature of whatever it is stuck into. you read the temperature on the dial or digital screen. The one I suggested has removable sanitary covers so it can be used in different foods at any temperature (within it'


I've seen beer probes (at least, they were labelled as such) constructed of a thermocouple in a nonreactive plastic coating with a long waterproof lead. You throw it into the beer, and away you go.

I do have food-safe (nickel-silver jewler's) solder, and some uncoated thermocouples. If I were to close off the length of a thin piece of copper tube with solder and glue the end of the probe near this end with nonconductive thermal epoxy, would I be on the right track?


Edited by jrshaul, 05 July 2012 - 11:35 PM.


#570 thampik

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 01:30 AM

This is what Myhrvold et al. (2011) is after when they suggest aging meat for even 4 hours at 45 °C can significantly increase tenderness.


DouglasBaldwin : Is that really 45 '°C' - so not aging as people would think, but actually cooking at a low temperature?