917 replies to this topic

[KennethT]

I have been trying out long (2-3 days) cooking times for the first time and have mixed feelings about the results so far.

I have tried Chuck steaks at 55C for 48 hours and short ribs at 57 for 72 hours and in both case the texture has been great but the flavour is very strange... almost like corned beef (silverside). As for seasoning, I only used salt and pepper on the chuck, whereas I used a decent beef stock (but no additional seasoning) on the short ribs. In both cases the flavour was lacking.

In the case of the ribs I wanted to use the bag juices (with the stock inside) to make a sauce but it was very fatty and to be honest not particularly enticing. Is there any way to turn this scrappy bright red liquid into something resembling a dark rich beef jus?

I'm using a sous vide magic with a very well insulated Tefal Rice Cooker and have found it to be very stable and evaporation to be almost nil with a little glad wrap around the steam valve, this is also where my probe sits beautifully.

Any thoughts?

There have been quite a few posts in the past dealing with bag juices. You can separate the liquid from fat, then bring to a boil (I usually use the microwave), then strain out the proteins that coagulate. Member Nickrey came up with an interesting method to pan fry the coagulated proteins until they become the typicaly brown bits that accumulate on teh bottom of a normal roasting pan - you can deglaze with the bag liquid and any other flavorful liquids to get your jus. Works very well.

[guysmiley54]

I like the idea of reducing to simulate pan fond. What's the best way to keep the meat warm in the mean time?

There have been quite a few posts in the past dealing with bag juices. You can separate the liquid from fat, then bring to a boil (I usually use the microwave), then strain out the proteins that coagulate. Member Nickrey came up with an interesting method to pan fry the coagulated proteins until they become the typicaly brown bits that accumulate on teh bottom of a normal roasting pan - you can deglaze with the bag liquid and any other flavorful liquids to get your jus. Works very well.

[rotuts]

I put the meat back into its bag, fold over the cut edge several times and staple closed. I put it back into the hot SV bath with the Gizzmo off. If you staple securely no water will get back into the bag as the water is still.

[e_monster]

I have been trying out long (2-3 days) cooking times for the first time and have mixed feelings about the results so far.

I have tried Chuck steaks at 55C for 48 hours and short ribs at 57 for 72 hours and in both case the texture has been great but the flavour is very strange... almost like corned beef (silverside). As for seasoning, I only used salt and pepper on the chuck, whereas I used a decent beef stock (but no additional seasoning) on the short ribs. In both cases the flavour was lacking.
....
Any thoughts?

If the flavor is suspect then it sounds like your meat is not of very good quality. I also would not put stock or anything like that into the bag with short ribs. I have done a lot of shortribs and the only times they were anything short of amazing was when the quality of the meat was not very good. I wouldn't put stock in the back. A little bit of salt is all you need -- I have sometimes put a small amount of liquid smoke. Cooked like this and seared, you should get something that is as tender as a filet and more flavorful than a great prime rib.

[Shalmanese]

On long cook times, pre-salting can lead to a "cured" flavor in the meat. The solution is to post-salt instead. As for keeping the meat warm, well, sous vide. If it's at the same temp, no more juice is going to be extruded. This is trivial if you have a ziplock, slightly harder for vacuum bags.

[guysmiley54]

In the case of the chuck steak it was cheap supermarket stuff but the ribs was top notch from the best butcher in town. Both shared a similar cured typed of flavour.

If the flavor is suspect then it sounds like your meat is not of very good quality. I also would not put stock or anything like that into the bag with short ribs. I have done a lot of shortribs and the only times they were anything short of amazing was when the quality of the meat was not very good. I wouldn't put stock in the back. A little bit of salt is all you need -- I have sometimes put a small amount of liquid smoke. Cooked like this and seared, you should get something that is as tender as a filet and more flavorful than a great prime rib.

[guysmiley54]

I suspect you might be right here. The chuck was salted and the ribs were in a salted stock.

I guess I wanted to check if these flavours are normal... it sounds like they are not! I will try some more experiments, keeping the meat high in quality and leaving salt out until the end sear.

On long cook times, pre-salting can lead to a "cured" flavor in the meat. The solution is to post-salt instead. As for keeping the meat warm, well, sous vide. If it's at the same temp, no more juice is going to be extruded. This is trivial if you have a ziplock, slightly harder for vacuum bags.

[rotuts]

I did another sirloin steak tip today. 6 hours at 130.1. I used the same Prime Rib rub as before. Quick sear at the end. This was one of the best steaks i've had. It was as tender as filet mignon, but with some structure. It was rare as i like it.

I made pin-wheels by seasoning the meat, rolling the steak up and tying it before it went into the SV bag. I nice bonus to the pin-wheel shape is that you can add meat to a steak that's smaller than average - in the middle (beginning of the roll) so that each steak is about the same size.

This is going to be a keeper for me when sirloin steak tips go on sale.

Im going to try to deconstruct the seasoning to get rid of the salt so that I can use it for short ribs and not get that 'cured' flavor.

Edited by rotuts, 26 May 2012 - 02:18 PM.

[Rkweaver]

Has anyone found a time/temperature for escargot? Sous vide should be perfect for this protein.

[KennethT]

Modernist cuisine's treatment of escargot is really good - have made a few times to many rave reviews. Bag escargot with chick broth, carrot and onion and SV 5 h @ 154F

[slkinsey]

I have tried Chuck steaks at 55C for 48 hours and short ribs at 57 for 72 hours and in both case the texture has been great but the flavour is very strange... almost like corned beef (silverside). As for seasoning, I only used salt and pepper on the chuck, whereas I used a decent beef stock (but no additional seasoning) on the short ribs. In both cases the flavour was lacking.

"Beefyness" can decrease somewhat with long cooking. This is a good reason to chill LT/LT beef after it's cooked, then give it a good sear in a hot pan to develop a crust and Maillard flavors, then rethermalize and serve.

Also, if you are getting a "corned beef" like flavor and texture, this is because you have salt in the bag and the salt is effectively "curing" the meat in the bag as it cooks over 48-72 hours. It's no different from brining the meat for 48-72 hours, which we would expect to result in a corned-like flavor and texture. You should only salt the meat once it is finished cooking and out of the bag, and this will avoid curing the meat.

[guysmiley54]

Thanks for the info. The salt issue makes sense to me but most sous vide guides and recipes I have read recommend the use of salt in the bag before a 72 hour cook... Maybe I'm more sensitive to this flavor or maybe I'm reading the wrong blogs! I'm not going crazy with the salt but I'll be sure to skip it next time to see the difference.

I have tried Chuck steaks at 55C for 48 hours and short ribs at 57 for 72 hours and in both case the texture has been great but the flavour is very strange... almost like corned beef (silverside). As for seasoning, I only used salt and pepper on the chuck, whereas I used a decent beef stock (but no additional seasoning) on the short ribs. In both cases the flavour was lacking.

"Beefyness" can decrease somewhat with long cooking. This is a good reason to chill LT/LT beef after it's cooked, then give it a good sear in a hot pan to develop a crust and Maillard flavors, then rethermalize and serve.

Also, if you are getting a "corned beef" like flavor and texture, this is because you have salt in the bag and the salt is effectively "curing" the meat in the bag as it cooks over 48-72 hours. It's no different from brining the meat for 48-72 hours, which we would expect to result in a corned-like flavor and texture. You should only salt the meat once it is finished cooking and out of the bag, and this will avoid curing the meat.

[KennethT]

Check out the most recent (pretty old though) blog post in cookingissues.com They go into a whole tasting comparison of pre/post salting. I haven't pre salted since, except for fish which cooks for 20 min.

[ChrisZ]

Thought I'd mention that I am still alive after re-heating and eating some pork ribs that have been sitting in my fridge for almost 6 months.
I bought a rack of marinated pork ribs in January, and split them into two bags. I cooked them for 3 days (about 72h) at 58C, ate one bag immediately and popped the other in the fridge where I thought they'd make a quick meal at some point. While sous-vide is perfect for the cook now, reheat later approach there's not a clear indication of how long cooked food should last, in the bag. For one reason or another the bag just ended up sitting there for month after month.. Because I'd cooked the ribs for 3 days - and the bag was still airtight - I was sure the meat had been fully pasteurised and should be safe to eat. I heated the ribs up at 60C for a couple of hours, opened it and it smelt fine. Ate it and it was great - as if it had been cooked yesterday.
I would've been more cautious if I hadn't cooked the meat for so long, but I'm curious to know what the guidelines are regarding the shelf-life of cooked sous-vide meat...

[e_monster]

Thought I'd mention that I am still alive after re-heating and eating some pork ribs that have been sitting in my fridge for almost 6 months.
I bought a rack of marinated pork ribs in January, and split them into two bags. I cooked them for 3 days (about 72h) at 58C, ate one bag immediately and popped the other in the fridge where I thought they'd make a quick meal at some point. While sous-vide is perfect for the cook now, reheat later approach there's not a clear indication of how long cooked food should last, in the bag. For one reason or another the bag just ended up sitting there for month after month.. Because I'd cooked the ribs for 3 days - and the bag was still airtight - I was sure the meat had been fully pasteurised and should be safe to eat. I heated the ribs up at 60C for a couple of hours, opened it and it smelt fine. Ate it and it was great - as if it had been cooked yesterday.
I would've been more cautious if I hadn't cooked the meat for so long, but I'm curious to know what the guidelines are regarding the shelf-life of cooked sous-vide meat...

Chris,

As an fyi, smelling meat won't tell you if it is safe to eat. Spoilage bacteria (which cause the bad smells) are different from the deadly pathogens. You can have "spoiled" meat (i.e. smells bad) but won't make you will -- and meat laced with pathogens that will kill but has no off-odor.

So, don't use your nose to determine safety.

[Tom in DC]

A newbie here, but what about a Zip-loc bag

I like the idea of reducing to simulate pan fond. What's the best way to keep the meat warm in the mean time?

There have been quite a few posts in the past dealing with bag juices. You can separate the liquid from fat, then bring to a boil (I usually use the microwave), then strain out the proteins that coagulate. Member Nickrey came up with an interesting method to pan fry the coagulated proteins until they become the typicaly brown bits that accumulate on teh bottom of a normal roasting pan - you can deglaze with the bag liquid and any other flavorful liquids to get your jus. Works very well.

Never tried it, but what about putting the meat back in the immersion bath in a Zip-loc?

[nextguy]

I did not read back through all the threads to see if this was posted, but if anyone is interested I saw the Sous Vide Supreme (big one) on sale for 299 at Bloomingdale's in Manhattan. I wonder if there is a new model coming out and they are liquidating these.

[Justin Uy]

Hey all,

I recently tried the Sous vide Earl Grey Gin/Earl Grey MarTEAni recipe at the SVS blog:

http://blog.sousvide...lcohols-syrups/

And the process of making the Earl Grey-infused gin intrigued me. I started thinking thinking about other things that I could do with the process, and the next thing to come to mind after the tea was coffee.

What I have in mind is some sort of coffee infused tequila or whiskey (sort of a riff on Patron Cafe or Irish Coffee). The problem is that my knowledge of coffees and teas is sorely lacking and I don't know what a reasonable starting point might be for the "brew" time and temperature for coffee (or other types of teas for that matter) since I assume there are some differences between brewing in water vs alcohol.

Any insights would be greatly appreciated, thanks!

[slkinsey]

This is a little bizarre. First off, the Earl Grey MarTEAni is an Audrey Saunders recipe, not something from Tavern Law in Seattle. Second, there is no reason to infuse the tea into the gin using a sous-vide bag and heat. It infuses just fine at room temperature. Third, there is absolutely no reason to make 1:1 simple syrup in a sous vide bag. Weird.


The only reason to use heat would be because you wanted to speed up the infusion process.

[Shalmanese]

Third, there is absolutely no reason to make 1:1 simple syrup in a sous vide bag.

Sure there is, those vacuum bags don't sell themselves.

[Neil Smith]

Any suggestions for cooking oxtail?

There's a recipe at British Larder that suggests 82⁰C (180⁰F) for 14 hours, and one from mengwong that suggests 57⁰C (135⁰F) for 24 hours followed by 70⁰C (158⁰F) for 48 hours. The butcher I bought it from suggested "overnight" at 80⁰C. All of those seem a bit high for cooking even a tough cut of beef.

I was thinking of 57⁰C for about 48 hours, and seeing what it's like.

Any thoughts?

[rotuts]

Ive never done oxtail, and similar times and temps are mentioned in Bladwin for two tough cuts: cheek and brisket. He does not list oxtail

the 175 (80 C) for 24 hours is called 'Well, quick'

the 160 (70 C) for 1 - 2 days is called 'Well, slow'

Im assuming you want for oxtail 'well' of some sort.

good luck and pls report back.

[DouglasBaldwin]

I actually do have a recipe for braised oxtail on page 62 of my book; I recommend 175F/80C for 12–18 hours.

[rotuts]

Wow! missed it! thanks for the heads-up. And with mashed potatoes!

[m61376]

Beef spare ribs- marinated overnight, smoked with cherry wood for 3 hours at 225 and then placed in Sous Vide for 48 hours at 140 degrees- absolutely amazing!! They were refrigerated, so I reheated them with some barbecue sauce covered in a 140 degree oven, and then quickly grilled them.

[EnriqueB]

Any suggestions for cooking oxtail?

Modernist Cuisine takes it to the limit and proposes 100 hours at 60ºC. Takes a long time but really works.

Edited by EnriqueB, 18 June 2012 - 12:21 AM.

[ChrisZ]

I actually do have a recipe for braised oxtail on page 62 of my book; I recommend 175F/80C for 12–18 hours.

Modernist Cuisine takes it to the limit and proposes 100 hours at 60ºC. Takes a long time but really works.

I've been playing around with sous vide for over a year now and I'm still not sure how these different combinations are calculated. Personally, I've always had great results with the lower temperatures and longer times - I generally cook everything at 58-60C and pork ribs / pork belly are divine after 72 hours.
But assuming that oxtails cooked for 100 hours at 60C are comparable to those cooked for 12-18 hours at 80C, is there some rule that can be used? If you graph these time/temperature combinations is it linear? Or is there some way of quantifying the texture from a given combination?
Considering the amount of discussion that's been given to the significance of 1 degree when cooking an egg - and I do realise that meat and eggs are different - I've always been intrigued by this and would love to know more...

[rotuts]

thanks for the interesting Oxtail ref. in Spanish. oxtails might be quite different if they came from an old 'ox' or a standard 'beef bred for meat' cattle, which is all most of us can get.

[EnriqueB]

I've been playing around with sous vide for over a year now and I'm still not sure how these different combinations are calculated. Personally, I've always had great results with the lower temperatures and longer times - I generally cook everything at 58-60C and pork ribs / pork belly are divine after 72 hours.
But assuming that oxtails cooked for 100 hours at 60C are comparable to those cooked for 12-18 hours at 80C, is there some rule that can be used? If you graph these time/temperature combinations is it linear? Or is there some way of quantifying the texture from a given combination?
Considering the amount of discussion that's been given to the significance of 1 degree when cooking an egg - and I do realise that meat and eggs are different - I've always been intrigued by this and would love to know more...

The relation is very far from linear! And both texture and juiciness depend heavily on the temperature. I tried to summarize it here, but it is in Spanish. I find the messages from Nathan and Douglas about tough cuts very instructive about this.

[rotuts]

EnB: thanks both for the ref. to your web page and a review of the 'tender' issues as mentioned above.