917 replies to this topic

[jamesglu]

I was given a whole salmon the other day, which I have cut up into fillets to prepare sous-vide. I don't really need them all right away, so was wondering if I could freeze them in their packages and cook as normal. Would they survive the freezing without losing texture, and if so, how much longer should they cook than normal?

[Robert Jueneman]

I think they will survive freezing just fine, although the FDA doesn't really recommend vacuum packaging of frozen fish unless it was received in a frozen state, and has never been thawed. Personally, I believe that is a CYA attitude to cover commercial users, but check the US Food Code for more details.

As to how much long they would need to cook - that is a difficult question to answer precisely. Douglas Baldwin and MC have some approximation tables, but the computations are technically complex.

What I would do is throw the fish in the bath, and then feel them from time to time. Once they appear to have thawed, you can use the various tables or the Sous Vide Dash app to figure out how much longer to cook them.

As a rough approximation, if you are planning dinner -- I'd add say 5 to 15 minutes, depending on the thickness.

[jamesglu]

Thanks, Robert, your reply is pretty much what I was thinking, so I appreciate the corroboration! Just in case my guests do expire as a result of the meal, however, please do forward me your contact information so I can include you in the countersuit ;-)

[Shalmanese]

SV fish is not cooked to pasteurization temps so the entire food chain pre-cooking is important. I'd try to figure out a way to freeze the fish as rapidly as possible and thaw the fish as rapidly as possible to minimize the proliferation of pathogens.

[PedroG]

According to FDA’s bad bug book, freezing fish for at least 7 days at or below -20°C/-4°F will kill parasites like Anisakis (but not bacteria), and it should not deteriorate texture significantly; you might eventually freeze before vacuum-sealing if you use vacuum levels as high as the ones produced by chamber machines to avoid deterioration of texture.
When using Douglas Baldwin’s table for heating meat from frozen, add some safety margin, as he used a thermal diffusivity of 1.4×10-7 m2/s in contrast to the thermal diffusivity of 0.995×10-7 m2/s he used in the tables for pasteurizing fish from 5°C. For pasteurizing, first thaw, e.g. in a 0-1°C water pot in the fridge.

[Heartsurgeon]

I cooked some baby octopus yesterday, came out fabulous!
Used T. Keller's time and temp (170.6 degrees, 5 hours).
Bagged the trimmed up critters in some arbequina olive oil, dried oregano, couple of bay leaves, salt and pepper.
After cooking, reserved the cooking liquids and separated the olive oil.
Added the olive oil back to the octopus along with chili flakes, garlic and lemon juice and let it marinate for a couple of hours in the fridge.
Served the baby octo over a bed of shaved fennel, parsley and halved cherry tomatoes. The marinade was the salad dressing.

The octopus was meltingly tender and flavorful.

[blackp]

As for the freezing of fish - I regularly purchase whole sides of different fish including salmon and portion them, vacuum pack and then freeze them. I find that the texture of the thawed product or that cooked SV from frozen to be almost indistinguishable from the fresh article.

There is one caveat to this though. I get all my fish from a place that supplies top end restaurants. The main reason for this is that they are very careful that all their fish is "dry processed" - that is that once the fish flesh is exposed no water or ice comes into contact with it. If the fish flesh had been wet or even sitting on a bed of ice as is common in fish retailers the flesh tends to absorb water and apart from the potential contamination issue if you freeze that fish the water crystals will break the fish down as it freezes.

So to cut a long story short freezing fresh fish works fine - so long as the fish flesh is kept scrupulously dry.

Regards,

Peter.

[Toufas]

I have 2 pieces of pork cooking at 82c right now for 12 hours. I also have some chicken wings and some chicken thighs that I would like to cook on the mean time. Sous vide dash was helpful with the thighs at this temperature, but is there a way that I could cook the wings as well?

[Doodad]

I discovered that the SVS demi with the vac sealer is on sale today. I should join the SV club this week! Will purchase some brisket and pork shoulder this weekend.

[avaserfi]

I have 2 pieces of pork cooking at 82c right now for 12 hours. I also have some chicken wings and some chicken thighs that I would like to cook on the mean time. Sous vide dash was helpful with the thighs at this temperature, but is there a way that I could cook the wings as well?

82C is very high for pork. What cut are you using?

I like chicken wings cooked in a 62C bath for 12 hours, then fried. I tend to do legs and thighs in a 64C bath for 1.5 hours.

[KennethT]

I have 2 pieces of pork cooking at 82c right now for 12 hours. I also have some chicken wings and some chicken thighs that I would like to cook on the mean time. Sous vide dash was helpful with the thighs at this temperature, but is there a way that I could cook the wings as well?

82C is very high for pork. What cut are you using?

I like chicken wings cooked in a 62C bath for 12 hours, then fried. I tend to do legs and thighs in a 64C bath for 1.5 hours.

Chicken wings at 60C for 24 hours is incredible - you can actually slide the bones out afterwards,making a boneless wing. Just be careful, the meat is really delicate!

[Toufas]

I have 2 pieces of pork cooking at 82c right now for 12 hours. I also have some chicken wings and some chicken thighs that I would like to cook on the mean time. Sous vide dash was helpful with the thighs at this temperature, but is there a way that I could cook the wings as well?

82C is very high for pork. What cut are you using?

I like chicken wings cooked in a 62C bath for 12 hours, then fried. I tend to do legs and thighs in a 64C bath for 1.5 hours.

Its 1 piece from the shoulder and 1 piece of belly.


I wanted to experiment with this: http://egullet.org/p1672174
Keller is doing his at 82.2 for 12h

Edited by Toufas, 06 April 2012 - 08:25 AM.

[avaserfi]

I have 2 pieces of pork cooking at 82c right now for 12 hours. I also have some chicken wings and some chicken thighs that I would like to cook on the mean time. Sous vide dash was helpful with the thighs at this temperature, but is there a way that I could cook the wings as well?

82C is very high for pork. What cut are you using?

I like chicken wings cooked in a 62C bath for 12 hours, then fried. I tend to do legs and thighs in a 64C bath for 1.5 hours.

Its 1 piece from the shoulder and 1 piece of belly.


I wanted to experiment with this: http://egullet.org/p1672174
Keller is doing his at 82.2 for 12h

The shoulder has a number of muscles. I probably wouldn't run any as high as 82C, but would adjust temperature depending on which muscle I was using.

I prefer belly done at 60C for 40 hours.


Pork belly confit and rillets. Both were done at 60C for 40 hours. I just whipped the scraps after I squared off the piece of belly.

[Toufas]

I used your recipe last time! :D

[Toufas]

After 12 hours, the belly came out nice but it wasn't a great piece to begin with. I made it into rilettes. The shoulder did not come out good. I am not blaming the method as it is, but the bad butchering (somebody else bought it for me) and that there was a hole at the seal, and there was water inside. I resealed it with some duck fat but it ended up a bit dry. I will probably use it as a base for something else.
Wings are in @ 60c till tomorrow

Now any recommendations for a rolled lamb breast? I've done 85@12h 72@24h, both good but maybe for something closer to medium?

[TheTInCook]

I just finished constructing my sous vide rig and set it to autotune. It's powering a hotplate and a pot right now. For my casing, I used a $4 plastic bucket from Home Depot and I built the outlets and pid into the lid. There is enough room in the bucket to store the cords and everything. I still need to figure out venting system for the ssr w/ heat sink. I don't want to cut vents in the side of the bucket if I can avoid it. I'll take and post pics once I get my workbench a little tidier. Still have to figure out a way to rig up the water pump, too.

I also want to thank marco and richie over at lightobject because their kind help was very important.

For all those building their own sv rigs, I suggest using a stranded conductor. I used a 14 gauge solid conductor, and it was so stiff, that it was a little tricky to assemble.

[Toufas]

After 12 hours, the belly came out nice but it wasn't a great piece to begin with. I made it into rilettes. The shoulder did not come out good. I am not blaming the method as it is, but the bad butchering (somebody else bought it for me) and that there was a hole at the seal, and there was water inside. I resealed it with some duck fat but it ended up a bit dry. I will probably use it as a base for something else.
Wings are in @ 60c till tomorrow

Now any recommendations for a rolled lamb breast? I've done 85@12h 72@24h, both good but maybe for something closer to medium?

Also a recommendation for lambs heart would be great!

[paulpegg]

I just finished constructing my sous vide rig and set it to autotune. It's powering a hotplate and a pot right now. For my casing, I used a $4 plastic bucket from Home Depot and I built the outlets and pid into the lid. There is enough room in the bucket to store the cords and everything. I still need to figure out venting system for the ssr w/ heat sink. I don't want to cut vents in the side of the bucket if I can avoid it. I'll take and post pics once I get my workbench a little tidier. Still have to figure out a way to rig up the water pump, too.

I also want to thank marco and richie over at lightobject because their kind help was very important.

For all those building their own sv rigs, I suggest using a stranded conductor. I used a 14 gauge solid conductor, and it was so stiff, that it was a little tricky to assemble.

Cut a hole in the lid and mount the heat sink for the ssr in that hole. That is all it takes.

[Justin Uy]

This is an idea I posted a few pages back that several of you helped me get some ideas on how to execute. This is my Surf & Turf.

Top Left: The patients, one prime ribeye, and one cape U10 cape scallop

Top right: Surgery complete, the knob of fat under the rib cap was removed and replaced with the trimmed scallop, glued in with Activa RM.

Bottom Left: I knew the scallop and steak had different ideal times/temps, so I went with setting the bath hotter than my final temp to make sure the steak got to temp while the scallop didn't spend too long in the bag. Calculation showed that about 40 minutes in a 56C bath would hit a core temp of 52C. Seasoned simply with salt and pepper and seared in a cast iron pan.

Bottom Right: Science! The scallop had just the right consistency to stand in for the Ribeye fat, and brought that nice briny sweetness that scallops have.

All in all I'll call it a win and something I'd try again.

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[Charcuterer]

Justin, that is fantastic! Great idea!

[e_monster]

I personally would be cautious about this unless you have sterilized the outer surface of the meat before making the incision since you aren't pasteurizing the meat.

When you make the incision, you will be making the interior non-sterile. So, when you cook you are going to be incubating any pathogens that managed to migrate with the cut -- and they won't be killed during searing.

So, unless this is beef that you would be comfortable eating raw and serving raw, you might want to consider sterilizing the outer surface of the meat prior to cutting it open. And, these should be scallops that you could eat raw, also since the surface of scallop's is also not going to be cooked enough to kill any pathogens on its surface.

Best,

E

This is an idea I posted a few pages back that several of you helped me get some ideas on how to execute. This is my Surf & Turf.

Top Left: The patients, one prime ribeye, and one cape U10 cape scallop

Top right: Surgery complete, the knob of fat under the rib cap was removed and replaced with the trimmed scallop, glued in with Activa RM.

Bottom Left: I knew the scallop and steak had different ideal times/temps, so I went with setting the bath hotter than my final temp to make sure the steak got to temp while the scallop didn't spend too long in the bag. Calculation showed that about 40 minutes in a 56C bath would hit a core temp of 52C. Seasoned simply with salt and pepper and seared in a cast iron pan.

Bottom Right: Science! The scallop had just the right consistency to stand in for the Ribeye fat, and brought that nice briny sweetness that scallops have.

All in all I'll call it a win and something I'd try again.

[Justin Uy]

Ooh, good point E. Luckily these particular pieces were top quality and from a butcher and fishmonger I trust, but in the future I'll definitely remember to give the area a pass with the torch to be sure.

I personally would be cautious about this unless you have sterilized the outer surface of the meat before making the incision since you aren't pasteurizing the meat.

When you make the incision, you will be making the interior non-sterile. So, when you cook you are going to be incubating any pathogens that managed to migrate with the cut -- and they won't be killed during searing.

So, unless this is beef that you would be comfortable eating raw and serving raw, you might want to consider sterilizing the outer surface of the meat prior to cutting it open. And, these should be scallops that you could eat raw, also since the surface of scallop's is also not going to be cooked enough to kill any pathogens on its surface.

Best,

E

This is an idea I posted a few pages back that several of you helped me get some ideas on how to execute. This is my Surf & Turf.

Top Left: The patients, one prime ribeye, and one cape U10 cape scallop

Top right: Surgery complete, the knob of fat under the rib cap was removed and replaced with the trimmed scallop, glued in with Activa RM.

Bottom Left: I knew the scallop and steak had different ideal times/temps, so I went with setting the bath hotter than my final temp to make sure the steak got to temp while the scallop didn't spend too long in the bag. Calculation showed that about 40 minutes in a 56C bath would hit a core temp of 52C. Seasoned simply with salt and pepper and seared in a cast iron pan.

Bottom Right: Science! The scallop had just the right consistency to stand in for the Ribeye fat, and brought that nice briny sweetness that scallops have.

All in all I'll call it a win and something I'd try again.

[m61376]

Temperature and cooking time recommendations for veal shoulder tenders??

[rotuts]

I dont know what veal shoulder tenders are. Would you be willing to post a pre and post pic with your times and temps?

[m61376]

I dont know what veal shoulder tenders are. Would you be willing to post a pre and post pic with your times and temps?

They are veal shoulder steaks. I'm trying to ascertain what temp. and how long to cook veal- how does it compare to beef?

[paulpegg]

I dont know what veal shoulder tenders are. Would you be willing to post a pre and post pic with your times and temps?

They are veal shoulder steaks. I'm trying to ascertain what temp. and how long to cook veal- how does it compare to beef?

I would use 55C for 4 hours. This is a tender cut and much like beef shoulder which is cooked at 55C for 4-10 hours.

[Paul Kierstead]

I've not SV'd veal, so take this FWIW (0!), but although I am a fan of veal, it tends to be a little squishy to start with, so I'd be very wary of long cook times. Of course, if you have several and are available, you should be able to fairly easily do a 12,8,4 and 2 hour version and to direct comparisons. It would be an interesting experiment.

[rotuts]

Very interesting points. I no longer eat veal, just a personal decision.

but i used to love it, especially when I got it in the Old Boston North End.

Its young. Its tender. SV helps you out with connective tissue, without drying out the muscle itself.

If you were to grill these at high temp, rare lets say, and enjoy the result, I think SV might not help you too much: it will still take some time for the connective tissue to melt. By that time the meat might be 'mealy'

The meat itself probably has not had time to get 'tough' : inner connective tissue. Im guessing SV might not work well for veal.

Not that this confirms this but Baldwin does not have tables for veal.

Id go will the traditional grill or hot pan which you would carefully finish in the oven.

Looking forward to your results!

by reference: Ive usually over SV'd small tender legs of lamb that i've boned out. I bet it can be done, just not by me.

Edited by rotuts, 11 April 2012 - 10:32 AM.

[EnriqueB]

We pretty much only have veal (<10 months) or "añojo" (<18 months) in Spain butcher's. No beef. And for sure sous-vide works wonders with tough cuts of veal such as tail or cheeks. I cannot compare with beef, but for example I have tried the same times (100 h @ 60ºC) with both oxtail and "añojo" tail and both were excellent. Also have used the same times and temperatures for veal cheeks or shanks as those for the same beef cuts (from Modernist Cuisine recipes) and have always liked the result, even if they are likely already done with shorter times.

[pep.]

We pretty much only have veal (<10 months) or "añojo" (<18 months) in Spain butcher's. No beef.

According to EU regulations, veal has to be 8 months or younger ("category V"). There is also a second category "Z" for bovine animals between 8 and 12 months, which may get a distinct labeling or not (for example, in Austria it's "Jungrind" or "young beef", while in the UK the same meat is marketed simply as "beef").

In Spain, the corresponding labels are "ternera blanca" and "ternera". I assume "añojo" is an older designation? In Austria, the situation is somewhat similar. Most supermarket beef is so-called "Jungrind" and usually between 10 and 12 months old. However, the meat is already red in color, clearly different from veal.